98 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega-202]

kombra wrote...

My major problem with him are his weapon choices.

Shotguns: He is suicidal and needs to be micro-managed. Using powers of visible squad mates sucks due to LONG delays and them being exposed too much because of the animation. If you keep him back, he is pretty useless with non-DLC shotguns (in terms of his damage contribution).

Pistols: Squad mates take way too much time to aim/fire. So the damage contribution is only useful against armor.

Give him an SMG and he is quite good (you obviously need to mod the game).

I agree with this completely.  Honestly his weapon choices are subpar and don't make a heck of a lot of sense for the character.  He's an ex-Alliance marine and his weapon of choice in ME: Galaxy was an assault rifle.  

He SHOULD have been AR/SG or AR/Pistol.  SG/Pistol is just a really bad combo for any squad mate.  

[lazuli]

jwalker wrote...

In my playthroughs, Jacob dies everytime in the first fight of his LM. When the cutscene with the survivor chick ends, he's always ahead of Shepard, in the open.

That's a rough fight.  It's not an easy one for Shepard to pressure because the enemies become so numerous so quickly, and the cover isn't ideal.  Does anyone do segments of that mission in any of their videos?  I don't recall seeing any, as none of the fights are as dramatic as Korlus or the Disabled Collector Vessel, for example.

[Praetor Knight]

lazuli wrote...

jwalker wrote...

In my playthroughs, Jacob dies everytime in the first fight of his LM. When the cutscene with the survivor chick ends, he's always ahead of Shepard, in the open.

That's a rough fight.  It's not an easy one for Shepard to pressure because the enemies become so numerous so quickly, and the cover isn't ideal.  Does anyone do segments of that mission in any of their videos?  I don't recall seeing any, as none of the fights are as dramatic as Korlus or the Disabled Collector Vessel, for example.

Yeah, its those rapid fire SMG's that the hunters use in Jacob's LM.

On Insanity, they tear through the shields so quickly and the cover is not the best to keep the squad alive long enough to handle all of them in time before at least one squadmate drops. I think it's because the hunters can fire at the squad from so many angles.

And IME, the squad tries to move up sometimes (especially Jacob with the shotty) so they seem to always be partially exposed, especially if you do not manually try position them in the middle of that row of boxes near that lady.

I've seen a couple videos that have the complete LM in two to three videos, but I haven't seen a video that features this fight. And the few that I've seen, at least one squadmate drops in that fight.

******************
The fight starts around 6:00 in this video

[Aimi]

ryoldschool wrote...

Back on topic - I always do Kasumi loyality ( to get leveled up enough for Jacob to get squad incendary ) first.  Mordin mission is a lot easier with squad incendary.  Thanks Lazuli for the post.

Really?  I just pick up Squad Incendiary for him right after Freedom's Progress with a 1 Pull 4 IA 1 Passive build.

[jwalker]

daqs wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Back on topic - I always do Kasumi loyality ( to get leveled up enough for Jacob to get squad incendary ) first. Mordin mission is a lot easier with squad incendary. Thanks Lazuli for the post.

Really? I just pick up Squad Incendiary for him right after Freedom's Progress with a 1 Pull 4 IA 1 Passive build.

It depends on your import from ME1. But yes, with a level 60 Shepard from ME1 right after Freedom's Progress you can have Jacob with Squad Incendiary.

lazuli wrote...

That's a rough fight. It's not an easy one for Shepard to pressure because the enemies become so numerous so quickly, and the cover isn't ideal. Does anyone do segments of that mission in any of their videos? I don't recall seeing any, as none of the fights are as dramatic as Korlus or the Disabled Collector Vessel, for example.

Well... I guess he deserves his vid after all.
I reloaded his mission and, with a little effort, I kept him alive the entire fight. The cutscene at the beginning and Jacob's tendency to volunteer don't help...

Nothing fancy, but here you go.

Jacob's Loyalty Mission


edit: spelling...

Modifié par jwalker, 13 janvier 2011 - 12:42 .

[lazuli]

jwalker wrote...


Nothing fancy, but here you go.

Jacob's Loyalty Mission

Thanks for providing a video.  That is an awkward fight.  It doesn't help that the best place to hide your squad (if you are so inclined) has that crouching NPC behind it.

By the way, nice use of Cryo Blast and AI Hacking.

[Praetor Knight]

jwalker wrote...

Well... I guess he deserves his vid after all.
I reloaded his mission and, with a little effort, I kept him alive the entire fight. The cutscene at the beginning and Jacob's tendency to volunteer don't help...

Nothing fancy, but here you go.

Jacob's Loyalty Mission

That was cool, where you left the squad is possibly the best spot to keep them from getting caught in a cross-fire.

[ryoldschool]

daqs wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

Back on topic - I always do Kasumi loyality ( to get leveled up enough for Jacob to get squad incendary ) first.  Mordin mission is a lot easier with squad incendary.  Thanks Lazuli for the post.

Really?  I just pick up Squad Incendiary for him right after Freedom's Progress with a 1 Pull 4 IA 1 Passive build.

Yeah, what jwalker said. 
I import a level 58 character.  After freedom's progress you need about 500 experience to max out your main ability ( charge, AR, combat drone, etc. )  I do the Citadel stuff, then Normandy dog tag mission and the first firewalker mission to get those 500 points.  Jacob still can't get squad incendary until you level up one more time. Enter Kasumi.

Before I played ME1 to get an import character ( xbox ) Mordin's mission was sometimes quite a pain without the squad incendary.

[YoungLiara]

New poster here. I've read this and cannot agree more. Played Reaper IFF mission on insanity with Miranda and Jacob, it was a breeze. My class was adept and with his squad incendiary ammo power I was stripping husks of armor and then with use of biotics killed them them without too much trouble.

[jwalker]

lazuli wrote...

jwalker wrote...

Nothing fancy, but here you go.

Jacob's Loyalty Mission

Thanks for providing a video.  That is an awkward fight.  It doesn't help that the best place to hide your squad (if you are so inclined) has that crouching NPC behind it.

By the way, nice use of Cryo Blast and AI Hacking.

Thanks,

Yes, that chick there complicates things.

Too bad the YMIR Mech got to close to Shepard.  If you manage to hack it more in the middle of the yard, it will attack its buddies.
Useless. So I nuked it. That never gets old.

[Homebound]

I use Jacob to get Squad Incendairy ammo on my New Games. Besides that, he seems to be a very situation-specific combat option. Limited utility. Potential wasted.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Skipped the 2nd page, but nice writeup.



It took me a long while to see Jacob's value. However, it should be noted, as it's become pretty obvious now, that Jacob's utility peaks very early on in the game (however long it takes to max Incin.Ammo) and then is quickly overtaken by the other squadmates. As good as he might be at the starting levels, he is still a bottom-tier squadmate.





He does, however, do a great job at freeing up Miranda / Garrus during the SM, so he makes up a bit more value with that!

[lazuli]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Skipped the 2nd page, but nice writeup.

It took me a long while to see Jacob's value. However, it should be noted, as it's become pretty obvious now, that Jacob's utility peaks very early on in the game (however long it takes to max Incin.Ammo) and then is quickly overtaken by the other squadmates. As good as he might be at the starting levels, he is still a bottom-tier squadmate.


He does, however, do a great job at freeing up Miranda / Garrus during the SM, so he makes up a bit more value with that!

Thanks for weighing in.  I think his effectiveness drops a bit as the game progresses for Infiltrators, Vanguards, and Soldiers.  The other classes can get lasting use out of his Squad Incendiary Ammo and his Pull.  That late in the game though, you could easily argue that Samara or Jack would be a better choice.  But then we're getting into just looking at one aspect of Jacob's build again.

Modifié par lazuli, 12 février 2011 - 09:24 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Thanks for this. You have made Jacob 125% more useful to me (I don't know how to use biotics)

[jasonsantanna]

1st off I'd like to say great thread, when you start the game on your 1st mission Freedom Progress

Jacob seems to hold his own pretty good , like its been stated he compliments Miranda well.

Now I've mentioned this in other threads about him , that I think he should have been more of a Sentinel character , which is basically what Miranda is , but Jacob could have had a different setup of powers.

In ME Galaxy he's more of a tech, who gains biotic powers being exposed to ezzo, so IMHO he should have been made a Sentinel and still able to compliment Miranda, his power could have been as followed:



1. Pull

2.Incendiary ammo

3. Cryo droid (Loyalty power) ;Jacob is able to spawn a droid that sprays enemies and freeze them for short peroids.

Evolved versions: Jacob's droid explodes into a cryo bomb covering a 3mm area or Jacobs droid can now freeze targets for longer periods at a time.



This is keeping with the theme of the game and goes along with his ME Galaxy status.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

lazuli wrote...
Thanks for weighing in.  I think his effectiveness drops a bit as the game progresses for Infiltrators, Vanguards, and Soldiers.  The other classes can get lasting use out of his Squad Incendiary Ammo and his Pull.  That late in the game though, you could easily argue that Samara or Jack would be a better choice.  But then we're getting into just looking at one aspect of Jacob's build again.

Trouble is, Grunt can be acquired very early, and can begin providing both Squad Incendiary and strong combat abilities by early-mid game (~Horizon), which is hugely attractive for the non-combat classes at that point in the game.

jasonsantanna wrote...
1. Pull
2.Incendiary ammo
3. Cryo droid (Loyalty power) ;Jacob is able to spawn a droid that sprays enemies and freeze them for short peroids.
Evolved versions: Jacob's droid explodes into a cryo bomb covering a 3mm area or Jacobs droid can now freeze targets for longer periods at a time.

This is keeping with the theme of the game and goes along with his ME Galaxy status.

OMG. Cryo+Combat Drone = Most. Overpowered. Ability. Evar.

^Especially given how you're proposing this should be a loyalty (ie: bonus) power, this would easily be the most gamebreaking ability to put in the game.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 13 février 2011 - 03:03 .

[jasonsantanna]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

lazuli wrote...
Thanks for weighing in.  I think his effectiveness drops a bit as the game progresses for Infiltrators, Vanguards, and Soldiers.  The other classes can get lasting use out of his Squad Incendiary Ammo and his Pull.  That late in the game though, you could easily argue that Samara or Jack would be a better choice.  But then we're getting into just looking at one aspect of Jacob's build again.

Trouble is, Grunt can be acquired very early, and can begin providing both Squad Incendiary and strong combat abilities by early-mid game (~Horizon), which is hugely attractive for the non-combat classes at that point in the game.

jasonsantanna wrote...
1. Pull
2.Incendiary ammo
3. Cryo droid (Loyalty power) ;Jacob is able to spawn a droid that sprays enemies and freeze them for short peroids.
Evolved versions: Jacob's droid explodes into a cryo bomb covering a 3mm area or Jacobs droid can now freeze targets for longer periods at a time.

This is keeping with the theme of the game and goes along with his ME Galaxy status.

OMG. Cryo+Combat Drone = Most. Overpowered. Ability. Evar.

^Especially given how you're proposing this should be a loyalty (ie: bonus) power, this would easily be the most gamebreaking ability to put in the game.

I don't  know about that but I thought it would  1.) gives you another variety 2.) give Jacob better combat use 3.) give players a different take on a power used in the game already , you have this in ammo form , omni tool cryo blast , and a hvy weapon form already.
But for me it would make Jacob far better squad mate plus I thought visually it would look cool

[lazuli]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
Trouble is, Grunt can be acquired very early, and can begin providing both Squad Incendiary and strong combat abilities by early-mid game (~Horizon), which is hugely attractive for the non-combat classes at that point in the game.

What if the non-combat classes want Pull, though, and not Concussive Shot?  And Jacob has the earliest access to a squad ammo power as his Incendiary Ammo doesn't have a prerequisite.  Grunt's requires that you sink 3 points in the almost useless Concussive Shot.

I'm not arguing that Grunt is in effective in comparison to Jacob.  I think their builds are not as similar as many people seem to believe, and that both excel in different areas despite some overlap.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

lazuli wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
Trouble is, Grunt can be acquired very early, and can begin providing both Squad Incendiary and strong combat abilities by early-mid game (~Horizon), which is hugely attractive for the non-combat classes at that point in the game.

What if the non-combat classes want Pull, though, and not Concussive Shot?  And Jacob has the earliest access to a squad ammo power as his Incendiary Ammo doesn't have a prerequisite.  Grunt's requires that you sink 3 points in the almost useless Concussive Shot.

I'm not arguing that Grunt is in effective in comparison to Jacob.  I think their builds are not as similar as many people seem to believe, and that both excel in different areas despite some overlap.

Indeed, I found Jacob highly useful on my 'Insanity' run that I've just finished. I would say I actually used him more than any of the other squadmates, although that is possibly because I was playing as Sentinel and so found his squad ammo useful as Sentinels don't have one (and I had Stasis as my bonus) and his pull obviously useful for warp bombs.

[JRKnight]

lazuli wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
[....]

What if the non-combat classes want Pull, though, and not Concussive Shot?  And Jacob has the earliest access to a squad ammo power as his Incendiary Ammo doesn't have a prerequisite.  Grunt's requires that you sink 3 points in the almost useless Concussive Shot.

I'm not arguing that Grunt is in effective in comparison to Jacob.  I think their builds are not as similar as many people seem to believe, and that both excel in different areas despite some overlap.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to call Concussive Shot useless.  Useless for squadmates no doubt.  But for an experienced soldier player its got alot of use, the evolution Heavy Concussive Shot at least.  Just got a be aggressive with how you use it.

Hey, lazuli.  You ever look into having Taylor take Inferno Ammo instead of squad incendiary?  I get the reasons behind taking the latter over the former as you described in your OP.  I've actually seen the results myself, a squad loaded out with two full automatic weapons and the heavy-hitting GPS with inferno ammo can be, well, very devasitating on Insanity.  Though I've only looked into this during the later part of the game.

EDIT: edited again

Modifié par JRKnight, 13 février 2011 - 10:35 .

[lazuli]

JRKnight wrote...
Hey, lazuli.  You ever look into having Taylor take Inferno Ammo instead of squad incendiary?  I get the reasons behind taking the latter over the former as you described in your OP.  I've actually seen the results myself, a squad loaded out with two full automatic weapons and the heavy-hitting GPS with inferno ammo can be, well, very devasitating on Insanity.  Though I've only looked into this during the later part of the game.

Yes.  I do occasionally spec him into Inferno Ammo when I've established my own ammo power (be it class or bonus).  I don't think squadmates are fast enough with the GPS (or any shotgun) to get the most out of Inferno Ammo though.

[jasonsantanna]

JRKnight wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
[....]

What if the non-combat classes want Pull, though, and not Concussive Shot?  And Jacob has the earliest access to a squad ammo power as his Incendiary Ammo doesn't have a prerequisite.  Grunt's requires that you sink 3 points in the almost useless Concussive Shot.

I'm not arguing that Grunt is in effective in comparison to Jacob.  I think their builds are not as similar as many people seem to believe, and that both excel in different areas despite some overlap.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to call Concussive Shot useless.  Useless for squadmates no doubt.  But for an experienced soldier player its got alot of use, the evolution Heavy Concussive Shot at least.  Just got a be aggressive with how you use it.

Hey, lazuli.  You ever look into having Taylor take Inferno Ammo instead of squad incendiary?  I get the reasons behind taking the latter over the former as you described in your OP.  I've actually seen the results myself, a squad loaded out with two full automatic weapons and the heavy-hitting GPS with inferno ammo can be, well, very devasitating on Insanity.  Though I've only looked into this during the later part of the game.

I agree CS has uses , everyone keeps saying there are better powers out there sure that's true but it gives yoy variety in the game to play different , yes it has the lowest punch of all powers in the game but , Christina Norman said that also but it does 3.5x damage against barrier.
But back to Jacob , I feel all squadies have a place it all depends on class and your play style , I thought Mordin and Tali were weak, I would only use Tali on geth/mech missions but after experimenting a bit I use both more now , same with Jacob he is not going to be everyones cup of tea , like I said above they should have maid him a Sentinel better use out of him and could still had his shot gun with a cyro tech driod , he would have been bad ass ( read my post above about Jacob and tech power)

[Locutus_of_BORG]

lazuli wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
Trouble is, Grunt can be acquired very early, and can begin providing both Squad Incendiary and strong combat abilities by early-mid game (~Horizon), which is hugely attractive for the non-combat classes at that point in the game.

What if the non-combat classes want Pull, though, and not Concussive Shot?  And Jacob has the earliest access to a squad ammo power as his Incendiary Ammo doesn't have a prerequisite.  Grunt's requires that you sink 3 points in the almost useless Concussive Shot.

I'm not arguing that Grunt is in effective in comparison to Jacob.  I think their builds are not as similar as many people seem to believe, and that both excel in different areas despite some overlap.

I'm not arguing that Grunt is a must-take at that point in the game, but only that he makes for a hugely attractive Jacob alternative at a fairly early point in the game. I would never argue that CS is 'better' than Pull.

Jacob definately offers the better early cc ability. However, the non-combat classes (eng, adpt, sent) also have better intrinsic cc abilities than the combat classes (sol, inf, van), so Jacob's Pull is not necessarily a 'must-have' for them at the point where Grunt becomes available, whereas Grunt helps fill the firepower deficiency that non-combat classes suffer before the DCS. I know for myself, I will probably have lvl1 pull on my adept by around Horizon, but my weapons/health will still be kinda weak.

My point is, while I don't think that Jacob is useless by ~Horizon, I feel that Grunt's tanking & weapons will cause a lot of ppl to choose him over Jacob come the early-mid point of the game.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 13 février 2011 - 09:09 .

[JayhartRIC]

I recently specced Jacob with Inferno, the stronger evolution of Barrier, and weapon damage passive with one point in Pull. He did pretty well as a tank with this build. Obviously not as good a tank as Grunt, but having Pull to do warp combos was good.

Modifié par JayhartRIC, 14 avril 2011 - 04:25 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Interesting. I guess sacrificing Pull Field for the basic lvl1 Pull wouldn't be too big a tradeoff on the harder difficulties... But weapon passive instead of health? With Miranda in tow and GPS equipped, wouldn't Jacob be able to strip defences easily enough (then using warp combo for damage)?