382 réponses à ce sujet

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Tietj wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Tietj wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

After taking some time to reflect on the story the Devs want to make (With mages vs. templars being a large part of the story) it was a good idea to have your class reflect who survives... however it isn't the correct desicion.

I understand that the Devs want to have situations where both us and our sibling are treated dramatically different based on whether or not they are a mage or not. However forcing the issue will hurt replay value. If I want to be a mage and have Bethany alive than I should have that choice in a playthrough but if I'm always going to have Carver as my mage PCs sibling and Bethany for my Warrior/Rogue PCs sibling than I think you eliminate some of the fun or replaying a game.

Well, I can understand your frustration but to be honest it's not really up to you what the "correct" decision is,  especially because we still know next to nothing about the plot of the game.  Honestly, you can't say that it hurts replay value, since it would have been just as easy to only give Hawke one sibling, and we wouldn't think a thing of it hurting the replay value.

Anything that removes choice from and RPG tends to be a wrong decision. I realise its not up to me what the Devs do I'm mearly stating an opinion that forcing us to have a mage/non-mage situation every single time we play the game is going to hurt the game especially if you end up liking one sibling alot more than the other but because you want to play as your favorite class you can't that will hurt replay.

Well, I disagree that anything that removes choice from an RPG is a wrong decision.  The developers have a limited amount of resources.  If given a choice between a fully developed relationship with your surviving opposite-class sibling or a less well-developed relationship with the sibling of your choice, I would go with the more developed relationship. 

And that's your choice. But if someone would rather play a game with the class of their choice and the sibling of their choice even if its 'less developed' than that's their choice and they shouldn't be denied that choice. Not in an RPG.

[TheComfyCat]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Tietj wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

After taking some time to reflect on the story the Devs want to make (With mages vs. templars being a large part of the story) it was a good idea to have your class reflect who survives... however it isn't the correct desicion.

I understand that the Devs want to have situations where both us and our sibling are treated dramatically different based on whether or not they are a mage or not. However forcing the issue will hurt replay value. If I want to be a mage and have Bethany alive than I should have that choice in a playthrough but if I'm always going to have Carver as my mage PCs sibling and Bethany for my Warrior/Rogue PCs sibling than I think you eliminate some of the fun or replaying a game.

Well, I can understand your frustration but to be honest it's not really up to you what the "correct" decision is,  especially because we still know next to nothing about the plot of the game.  Honestly, you can't say that it hurts replay value, since it would have been just as easy to only give Hawke one sibling, and we wouldn't think a thing of it hurting the replay value.

Anything that removes choice from and RPG tends to be a wrong decision. I realise its not up to me what the Devs do I'm mearly stating an opinion that forcing us to have a mage/non-mage situation every single time we play the game is going to hurt the game especially if you end up liking one sibling alot more than the other but because you want to play as your favorite class you can't that will hurt replay.

To be fair, we don't yet know how the loss of the sibling is handled plot-wise. Perhaps it's necessary for it to work this way due to circumstances we're not yet privy to.

And anyway, it's not like the player truly has agency. We can't always make every decision.

But I'm planning on more than one playthrough, so I'll spend time with both siblings. Hopefully they have noticeably different personalities (and aren't merged into one person a la the Virmire survivor of Mass Effect 2).

Modifié par senorfuzzylips, 11 janvier 2011 - 04:07 .

[White_Buffalo94]

Bethany. I have a little sister and cannot stand having to be a role model for a younger brother

[Tietj]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

And that's your choice. But if someone would rather play a game with the class of their choice and the sibling of their choice even if its 'less developed' than that's their choice and they shouldn't be denied that choice. Not in an RPG.

True, but if they went the other way, my own choice to have a better developed relationship would be taken away.  I'm not saying you're wrong; actually I agree with your premise.  Ideally, we would have as many choices as possible, but the writers most likely had to choose between deeper character development or more choices for the player and chose the former.  It's not perfect but there are those of us who prefer it that way.

[Whitestrake]

I'd rather they both survive, but I don't know that that's possible.
I'll end up with Bethany in the first playthrough, because I absolutely love being a rogue, & Carver in the second because I dig mages too.

I don't know anything about the characters yet, other than the fact that they're some good looking twins, so I don't know which I like best.

[Silentmode]

Bethany, and its not because she's hot or anything... really, I promise. I can't really make a informed decision though since I know next to nothing about either of them. The only thing is that one line of dialogue Carver says in the new dev diary, which much to my suprise he actually looked and sounded semi cool.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Tietj wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

And that's your choice. But if someone would rather play a game with the class of their choice and the sibling of their choice even if its 'less developed' than that's their choice and they shouldn't be denied that choice. Not in an RPG.

True, but if they went the other way, my own choice to have a better developed relationship would be taken away.  I'm not saying you're wrong; actually I agree with your premise.  Ideally, we would have as many choices as possible, but the writers most likely had to choose between deeper character development or more choices for the player and chose the former.  It's not perfect but there are those of us who prefer it that way.

It can't be that hard to squeeze the mage/mage normal/normal situation into the game. The only real situation would be for the voice actors who play them they'd probably have to voice a number of lines differently to make up for the classes being the same but honestly it can't be that hard. If the story needs a mage character than the blood line that the family has is said to be rich in magic so even a non mage could in theory do some plot related thing.

Sure the plot and character development might be less because its the 'wrong' way to play the game but hey, people should be able to play that version of the game. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree aren't we

[Tietj]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Tietj wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

And that's your choice. But if someone would rather play a game with the class of their choice and the sibling of their choice even if its 'less developed' than that's their choice and they shouldn't be denied that choice. Not in an RPG.

True, but if they went the other way, my own choice to have a better developed relationship would be taken away.  I'm not saying you're wrong; actually I agree with your premise.  Ideally, we would have as many choices as possible, but the writers most likely had to choose between deeper character development or more choices for the player and chose the former.  It's not perfect but there are those of us who prefer it that way.

It can't be that hard to squeeze the mage/mage normal/normal situation into the game. The only real situation would be for the voice actors who play them they'd probably have to voice a number of lines differently to make up for the classes being the same but honestly it can't be that hard. If the story needs a mage character than the blood line that the family has is said to be rich in magic so even a non mage could in theory do some plot related thing.

Sure the plot and character development might be less because its the 'wrong' way to play the game but hey, people should be able to play that version of the game. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree aren't we

Yeah, I really only kind of half disagree with you anyway.  I can definitely see what you're saying. 

[CrybabyXD]

since ive never had a sister myself and plan on playing a warrior anyhow i would have beth, idk even with little info as we have i like her better than carver but that could change after i play a mage.

Modifié par Aurkia, 11 janvier 2011 - 04:37 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Tietj wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Tietj wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

And that's your choice. But if someone would rather play a game with the class of their choice and the sibling of their choice even if its 'less developed' than that's their choice and they shouldn't be denied that choice. Not in an RPG.

True, but if they went the other way, my own choice to have a better developed relationship would be taken away.  I'm not saying you're wrong; actually I agree with your premise.  Ideally, we would have as many choices as possible, but the writers most likely had to choose between deeper character development or more choices for the player and chose the former.  It's not perfect but there are those of us who prefer it that way.

It can't be that hard to squeeze the mage/mage normal/normal situation into the game. The only real situation would be for the voice actors who play them they'd probably have to voice a number of lines differently to make up for the classes being the same but honestly it can't be that hard. If the story needs a mage character than the blood line that the family has is said to be rich in magic so even a non mage could in theory do some plot related thing.

Sure the plot and character development might be less because its the 'wrong' way to play the game but hey, people should be able to play that version of the game. I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree aren't we

Yeah, I really only kind of half disagree with you anyway.  I can definitely see what you're saying. 

Hopefully this single issue doesn't end up hurting replay value and people don't feel like they're missing out because of the class they chose. If that's the case (Which I want it to be) than I'll have no problem with it. It was nice having this debate with you by the way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Lukas Kristjanson wrote...

Mods can do many things but they have their limits, and honestly, they are rarely concerned with what is dramatically correct.

I insist that the player is the final arbiter of what is dramatically correct.

And I'll do whatever I can to make the game accommodate the maximum number of mages.

Yes, that's a fine platitude, and I would generally agree. But my comment wasn't about a player, it was about a mod. If you want to propose wildly divergent interpretations for character motivation within the dramatic framework we provide, hell, I encourage that. I don't purposefully close those doors if I can avoid it.

But the moment someone alters the framework with a mod, however minor they believe it to be, they have rewritten the book or refilmed the movie. Which I'm not opposed to, far from it. But if you choose to do it, it's now DA:Sylvius. Which may be a fine game to you, and if you wanted you could mod everyone to simply be a mage. But in doing so, you have accepted rather more responsibilty than that of "player" and you have effectively released me of my concern as a writer for making it work or make sense.

So have fun. Please do. Just don't come cryin'. S'all I'm saying.

This is the best answer ever.

Thank you, Lukas.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 11 janvier 2011 - 04:54 .

[Tietj]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

Hopefully this single issue doesn't end up hurting replay value and people don't feel like they're missing out because of the class they chose. If that's the case (Which I want it to be) than I'll have no problem with it. It was nice having this debate with you by the way.

Thanks, you too!  And I agree, the main issue is the replay value.  I'm thinking that at the heart of the issue with Bethany and Carver is a conflict between a mage sibling and a non-mage sibling.  I think it will be interesting, and may add to the replay value to be able to play through the story from opposite sides, so to speak.   I guess only time will tell, though. 

[test for echo]

Carver, without a doubt! Which works out well, since I'm playing as a mage the first time through.

[In Exile]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...
And that's your choice. But if someone would rather play a game with the class of their choice and the sibling of their choice even if its 'less developed' than that's their choice and they shouldn't be denied that choice. Not in an RPG.

I don't think all things should be a player choice, though. From Hawke's PoV, the death of a companion is going to be entirely random. Wrong place, wrong time. Cosmic fluke. Only the player has the meta-game knowledge of why a particular sibling dies.

[Collider]

Carver.

[HolyAvenger]

I'll definitely be doing a warrior playthrough first, so Bethany. I'll definitely do one where I save Carver though.

[Katana_Master]

Save Bethany. Because of a sense of outdated chivalry if nothing else. I don't like seeing girls getting killed. Unless they really REALLY deserve it. Or even if they deserve it.

[Doyle41]

I will play first playthrough as a male warrior. It's my favorite class but it also seems thusfar lagging behind the other classes as far as companions go.



Second playthrough, prolly a female rogue.

[Tietj]

One thing that strikes me, for everyone who will play through with both options (which I assume is most of us), isn't it going to be weird to get attached to one of them through your first playthrough and then see that same person get his/her head smashed in at the beginning of the next one? I think it will make their death seem much more poignant. Otherwise, we would just be saying "oh, isn't it tragic, my brother died," but on our first playthrough we will actually be getting to KNOW him.

[Gloriana]

Carver.



The name "Bethany" has to many negative incentives for me, so it's forever ruined. Already have a sister, so I don't need an in-game one, too.

[ximena]

Bethany. I already have a real-life brother. I think I'll try having a sister in this game.

[Lord_Anthonior]

Bethany, I don't have a sister in real life and the brother I have is just 2 years younger so no need to repeat it. Maybe later after several playthroughs.

[TeamLexana]

The Bard/Assassin/Shadow (awakening) Backstabber all points into cunning Rogue was my favorite for Origins so I'll probably do a rogue first meaning I'll need a mage for crowd control spells and hexes that fire off on auto really well like sleep/horror/nightmare, petrify/stonefist, misdirection hex, death hex, oh! mana clash! etc, etc. Maybe not those spell in particular but u know, whatever is comparable, lol.



A warrior would be really helpful for aggro catching but I think I can live through the first bit in the beginning where it's probably uber easy without one, esp since I think Aveline is suspose to join u soon after that anyways so a mage - Bethany for me is far more useful then Carver the warrior.

[The Big Nothing]

Carver. I like the Raistlin/Caramon dynamic. Aww, yeah.