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[Paraxial]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

She was the one that turned the clan against Merrill, too.

By being honest about what could happen if that mirror was repaired. 

Matterialize wrote...
And she was sitting there for SEVEN YEARS, how could she not have seen it coming? 

I'm assuming she wanted Merrill to come to the realization herself. There would be no victory in telling Merrill what would happen if she repaired the mirror. She would'nt have listened, or believed what the Keeper would have said; you can't help someone who doesn't want that help. The Keeper wanted Merrill to come to realization that she was up to no good herself, if she didn't she would be doomed to repeat her mistakes or do something even more dangerous in the future. If she didn't come to that realization the Keeper was going to make sure she protected someone she loved by any means necessary.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Indeed. The more I think about it, the more I think of Marethari as a senile, hypocritical, overbearing wretch.

You're going to have to help me out here, how was she a hypocrite? 

Modifié par Bible Doctor, 24 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[raziel1980]

Whacka wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

She was the one that turned the clan against Merrill, too.

Indeed. The more I think about it, the more I think of Marethari as a senile, hypocritical, overbearing wretch.

Since Zathrian, I've never really liked Keepers... <_<

And that theory doesn't really make my opinion on them any better.

I agree with both you n ishmael. 

I even had trouble siding with dalish AND Zathurian outright when I did my dalish play through of origins...and that was mostly because he rubbed me the wrong way( and yes, I knew about the option to side with eleves but not zathurian...but somehow that felt wrong under the circumstances...not to mention you got better loot for siding with one of the two factions completely than the middle ground).

[mesmerizedish]

Bible Doctor wrote...

You're going to have to help me out here, how was she a hypocrite? 

She professes love and protectiveness for Merrill while going out of her way to make the entire clan fear and loathe her.

[Matterialize]

Shavon wrote...
Perhaps I will play as a warrior then.  Siding with the templars as a mage doesn't quite work in my head. . ..  idk.

I hear that. I played him as a lawful mage who understands why the Circle exists and agrees that it's a necessary security measure. Not self-loathing or anything, just accepting of the current situation. Er, despite being an apostate himself. But that was why I either tried for neutral ground or went with the Templars most of the time, because I believed the rampant blood mages and whatnot were out of line. And the rivalry with Merrill still makes sense because you're trying to turn her away from that, and if you romance her too, you're trying to get her to stop to protect her not only from demons but also from templars who would gut her if they knew what she did.

[MassShep93]

So...has anyone written a "steamier" fan fiction?

[Paraxial]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Bible Doctor wrote...

You're going to have to help me out here, how was she a hypocrite? 

She professes love and protectiveness for Merrill while going out of her way to make the entire clan fear and loathe her.

I don't think her intent is to make the clan hate her. She warns the clan of what could become of Merrill and those around her if she indeed fixed the eluvian. It's her duty to look after her clan afterall. What the clan did with that information is their own business, I don't think the Keeper had any malicious intent in regards to... well anything. Also I disagree that talking to members of her own clan, whom she has lived with for generations, counts as "going out of her way".

[Knight of Dane]

MassShep93 wrote...

So...has anyone written a "steamier" fan fiction?

I have started a fanfic:
http://www.fanfictio..._Stories_Follow
It doesn't contain any adult stuff *yet* but i plan on including that later.
It's difficult for meto write in English I'm always insecure on how to descripe intimate actions.....
It contains Merrill/FemHawke as the main pairing.
It's a rather long project but i hope it goes well.

[The Minority]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Bible Doctor wrote...

You're going to have to help me out here, how was she a hypocrite? 

She professes love and protectiveness for Merrill while going out of her way to make the entire clan fear and loathe her.

I never thought about it like that.

But it was her duty as a keeper to warn them about her blood magic.

[mesmerizedish]

Bible Doctor wrote...

I don't think her intent is to make the clan hate her. She warns the clan of what could become of Merrill and those around her if she indeed fixed the eluvian. It's her duty to look after her clan afterall. What the clan did with that information is their own business, I don't think the Keeper had any malicious intent in regards to... well anything. Also I disagree that talking to members of her own clan, whom she has lived with for generations, counts as "going out of her way".

If it's her duty to look out for her clan, then they should have left Sundermount years before the climax of Merrill's arc.

The Keeper had absolutely no responsibility to tell the clan anything about Merrill. Merrill left the clan for just that reason. How is it at all responsible (either to the clan or to Merrill, whom Marethari ostensibly cares about more than the clan) to tell everyone "Ohai, that woman who just left and isn't ever really coming back? She's totally dooming our clan. Because willingly accepting a demon into oneself is totally never something I would do."

[mesmerizedish]

The Minority wrote...

I never thought about it like that.

But it was her duty as a keeper to warn them about her blood magic.

As I said, it was her duty as a keepr to get the clan the hell away from Sundermount. But she stayed, for Merrill. She's completely forsaking the clan for Merrill, while simultaneously telling the clan how bad Merrill is.

[Paraxial]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
If it's her duty to look out for her clan, then they should have left Sundermount years before the climax of Merrill's arc.

The Keeper had absolutely no responsibility to tell the clan anything about Merrill. Merrill left the clan for just that reason. How is it at all responsible (either to the clan or to Merrill, whom Marethari ostensibly cares about more than the clan) to tell everyone "Ohai, that woman who just left and isn't ever really coming back? She's totally dooming our clan. Because willingly accepting a demon into oneself is totally never something I would do."

Merrill only left the clan after the Keeper had informed them of what she was planning, and how she was planning to do it. After the clan had an understanding of what was going on, they did not want any part of her. I agree however that the Keeper staying (and therefor making the clan stay) at Sundermount for all that time was not in the clan's best interest. I would call it a very selfish act if it hadn't been done for her love for Merrill.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

"Because willingly accepting a demon into oneself is totally never something I would do."

She wouldn't have ever done that if it wasn't necessary to save Merrill's life. Calling her a hypocrite for that act is rather brash, for lack of a better word. She sacrificed her life because she knew what would happen, and in the end she saw that there was no other way to prevent it from happening. Hawke wasn't going to be able to stop her, and Merrill wasn't keen on turning from her path. The Keeper willingly accepted the demon because it was the only way she was going to prevent Merrill from losing everything, not because she wanted to kick it with a demon for a little while.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Somebody wrote...


I wasnt sure if it was actually cleansed, or the demon just said it was. 

Why? Demons and darkspawn have nothing in common. Demons cannot possess darkspawn, and so the demon would have no reason to lie about it.

[_Somebody]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Somebody wrote...


I wasnt sure if it was actually cleansed, or the demon just said it was. 

Why? Demons and darkspawn have nothing in common. Demons cannot possess darkspawn, and so the demon would have no reason to lie about it.

Hmm, that is true. Its just the blood magic that gets me.

You are a heretical blood mage, so its understandable that you would approve. 

[Emperor Iaius I]

Blood magic and the Old Gods were around long before your precious Chantry.

[flexxdk]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Blood magic and the Old Gods were around long before your precious Chantry.

"Precious" and "Chantry" in the same sentence?

Is that even possible?!

[Knight of Dane]

Ask Sebastian or Leliana?

[mesmerizedish]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Blood magic and the Old Gods were around long before your precious Chantry.

I love it when forumites post in-character.

*has a thing for desire demons spirits*

[_Somebody]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Blood magic and the Old Gods were around long before your precious Chantry.

Look not the the false Chantry, but to the Maker. 

[DoNotIngest]

"Does anyone else think Merrill has a chance to be in DA3? If you think about it she really does, because she really wasn't a central character involved in DA2's main plot and her story really has potential to grow. I see 2 options for her assuming Hawk isn't the main character in DA3. If Hawk is the main character in the next game they should keep like half the characters including Merrill, Varric, and Carver/Bethany as their stories could continue quite easily.

1. She quit trying to learn about the Eluvian and gave up blood magic. She decided to rejoin a Dalish clan to try and make amends for her actions regarding her former clan. Decided to become a keeper. Main character learns of her clan around Orlais(which is probably where the next game will take place) and proceeds to gain her as a party member due to her connection with Hawk and possibly the warden as well.

2. She kept pursing the Eluvian and eventulally unlocked its secrets. She finally got to help her people as she desired and is the sole reason for the elves newfound prominence. DA3 main character learns she has founded a new clan with similar beliefs as her and is living near Orlais and knows she could be a vital ally in stopping the upcoming events. This path could make her incredibly important to the entire DA universe not just DA3."

She better damnwell be in DA3. If they don't at least try to finish her story with an addon, DA3 isn't coming home with me. Well, maybe I'll just borrow it from a friend. Seriously, though, if you're going to include any previous-game-character, why not the one with the longest appreciation thread by over 100 pages?  I'm a strong believer in bringing some companions back from the first two games. Honestly, I enjoy the party banter and relationship dialogue more than the fighting; Good for laughs and for thought, as anybody who plays these games is a fantasy kind of person.

Now I have to watch some of that Merrill Movie. I'd pay to see "The Adventures of Merrill and Hawke - Post DA2"

[jlb524]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

The average Dalish Elf has very little understanding of Magic, let alone Blood Magic. There is no reason to believe that they are not as paranoid and as anti-Magic as most Templars.

I don't know about this.   They seem to respect magic users...enough to follow a mage as their clan leader.

iOnlySignIn wrote...
It seems to me at least that their disgust with Merrill and her Magic were something native to them, something that existed even before Merrill decided to fix the mirror, and something that prompted Merrill's departure from the clan (Merrill made this very clear in her dialogues).

I think she was an outcast b/c she was always separated from the rest of the clan in her tutelage under Marethari.  So, in a sense, it is due to her magic, because that's the reason she was isolated.  However, I don't think the clan has any problems with Merrill as a mage in itself.   She's just socially awkward and I doubt she formed any close bonds with her clanmates.  Then, she wants to fix the mirror of death and...well, she's not going to get as much support or any understanding from those who don't have much of an emotional attachment to her.

iOnlySignIn wrote...
In short, I don't think Marethari is to blame. She is no worse advocate for Merrill than Thrask is for the Blood Mages. She has done nothing wrong in principle. It is the Dalish Clan who are an ignorant mob with torches and pitchforks - what a poor mockery of the glorious Elvhen of the old! That is why I always slaughter the Dalish clan without mercy. They are every bit as bad as Ser Alrik, and they've ridiculed, bullied, and threatened my friend Merrill for quite long enough!

I agree that Marethari could have handled this better, yes.

Modifié par jlb524, 24 mars 2011 - 11:19 .

[Maria Caliban]

Somebody wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Somebody wrote...

I dont know, it was tainted with the blight. I guess its possible, but to me it wasnt worth the risk.

To Merrill it was. And the Blight was cleansed from it.

I wasnt sure if it was actually cleansed, or the demon just said it was. 

If the glass shard was tainted with the Blight, I suspect Merrill would have fallen ill in the six years she spent handling it.

[Maria Caliban]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I read that Merrill gives 15 rivalry points if you accept responsibility for her in "A New Path."

The problem is that the same action or dialogue can give you rivalry points or friendship points depending on what path you're on. It's possible the person who said this was already on the rivalry path.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Indeed. The more I think about it, the more I think of Marethari as a senile, hypocritical, overbearing wretch.

I can understand being sympathetic to Merrill and unhappy with Merithari, but at no point does Merithari show signs of being senile. It's possible to disagree with an older woman without bringing up their age.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Whacka wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Blood magic and the Old Gods were around long before your precious Chantry.

"Precious" and "Chantry" in the same sentence?

Is that even possible?!

Apparently for a lot of people. Delusional fools. The magi have risen up and will soon disabuse them of their error.

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Blood magic and the Old Gods were around long before your precious Chantry.

I love it when forumites post in-character.

*has a thing for desire demons spirits*

Sometimes it confuses people. Especially when I start praising blood magic.

Somebody wrote...

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Blood magic and the Old Gods were around long before your precious Chantry.

Look not the the false Chantry, but to the Maker.

The Maker? The petty, jealous godling who cursed humanity with the Taint because he was too useless and remote to worship? The same deity who buried the Old Gods for possessing more of humanity's love and adoration than he ever would?