17177 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Zjarcal wrote...
I'm having a mental image with a staff instead of a flute... 

rofl. at least we're on the same page. Although i admit i didn't actually move the analogy to that point

Modifié par tmp7704, 28 mars 2011 - 06:51 .

[Shepard Lives]

Merrill was deflowered by the Dalish Warden. End of story.

I can so see her get blazing drunk* at her own blood tattoo rite of passage thingy, with predictable results.

* Elves get drunk, right? I figure life in the woods would be pretty bleak otherwise. Plus, it helps with the frolicking.

Modifié par Shepard Lives, 28 mars 2011 - 06:56 .

[Corker]

Shepard Lives wrote...

* Elves get drunk, right? I figure life in the woods would be pretty bleak otherwise. Plus, it helps with the frolicking.

Elves can get falling down drunk if they drink alcohol.  I don't know if there's lore on the Dalish brewing.

[LobselVith8]

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Or the demon Audacity planned all along for Marethari to make a deal in order to protect Merrill from any risk.

Considering even Merrill didn't expect her Keeper and the tribe to still be there by the time she went to talk with the demon again, years after, that'd be some miraculous planning.

If the demons could offer Hawke's companions their hearts' desire when rescuing Feynriel, why assume that Audacity wouldn't know that Marethari would sacrifice her life for Merrill? Audacity knew enough to make the claim about knowing about Arlathan and providing them mental images of the ancient civilization in the first place.

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

We also have no idea how Merrill would have handled the demon, because Marethari acts before we can get any idea about how Merrill had planned to handle Audacity.

Well, we know Merrill isn't really against the concept of demons possessing people if that means Merrills gets what Merrills wants. Or at least, that she doesn't appear capable of defending herself from this kind of persuasion.

She's aware things may go in a manner which she can't handle, which is the very reason she asks Hawke to accompany her. If she's 100% sure she could handle it herself, there'd be no need for such request.

Simply because she takes precautions doesn't tell us any more about what realistic changes she had when she dealt with Audacity. That's the problem - we have absolutely no information on how Merrill would have handled the imprisoned demon. What we do know is that Merrill will risk her life for something she believes will benefit her people.

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Although Hawke doesn't have to bring Merrill specifically, he does involve himself (and others) in very dangerous situations.

But discussion was over whether Merrill is old/experienced enough to be involved in such dangerous activities. Hawke is a separate person with separate set of qualities, and as such what he/she does with his/her own life is also separate matter.

Given her training with the Keeper and that she can handle herself going up Sundermount, she seems perfectly capable of handling herself.

Regardless of whether Hawke takes her along or not, he gets involved in dangerous situations, and it sounds a little far-fetched for him to tell Merrill how issues about Dalish technology should be handled if she's studied the lore for years and he's completely unfamiliar with it.

tmp7704 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Yet Merrill knows that Hawke has handled abominations, demons, dragons, darkspawn, and Qunari. She would trust that he could handle himself to deal with an abomination if it ever came to that.

And none of these things Hawke has handled is supposed to be on level of danger/power that's pride demon released into our world. She trusts Hawke, sure. And it's cute and no doubt makes Hawke feel all warm and tingly. But it's a pretty blind trust considering she doesn't really know if Hawke is capable of handling something this big.

Hawke handles a demon in Feynriel's dream realm of comparable stature.

[Maria Caliban]

I have a question and it has nothing to do with Merrill's sexual history.

Imagine that instead of Merethari taking the pride demon into herself, Merrill deals with it and learns that the eluvian can only be fixed with a blood magic ritual where someone dies.

Later, Hawke and co. are slaughtering a bunch of gang members and Hawke says, "Hey, instead of me slicing this guy in half, you electrocuting him, or Isabela giving him a new orifice where his liver used to be, how about we take him to your house and I kill him there? Either way he dies, but you finally fix your mirror."

How does Merrill react?

(And yes, I know your Hawke might not do this.)

Shepard Lives wrote...

I can so see her get blazing drunk* at her own blood tattoo rite of passage thingy, with predictable results.

We know hunter have to kill something impressive before they become adults. What might a First have to do to earn her (*wiki search*) vallaslin?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 mars 2011 - 07:07 .

[Malevolence65]

Whacka wrote...
Why does it even bother you?

She isn't real, so it shouldn't matter.

Next topic, please.

It doesn't bother me, I was just wondering what other people thought about it.

[Zjarcal]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Imagine that instead of Merethari taking the pride demon into herself, Merrill deals with it and learns that the eluvian can only be fixed with a blood magic ritual where someone dies. Later, Hawke and co. are slaughtering a bunch of gang members and Hawke says, "Hey, instead of me slicing this guy in half, you electrocuting him, or Isabela giving him a new orifice where his liver used to be, how about we take him to your house and I kill him there? Either way he dies, but you finally fix your mirror."

How does Merrill react?

I think she'd probably agree, I really don't see why not. I don't think the idea of a blood sacrifice like that would really freak her out that much... or would it?

[Bann Duncan]

Maria Caliban wrote...

We know hunter have to kill something impressive before they become adults. What might a First have to do to earn her (*wiki search*) vallaslin?

Anyway, I have a question and it has nothing to do with Merrill's sexual history.

Imagine that instead of Merethari taking the pride demon into herself, Merrill deals with it and learns that the eluvian can only be fixed with a blood magic ritual where someone dies. Later, Hawke and co. are slaughtering a bunch of gang members and Hawke says, "Hey, instead of me slicing this guy in half, you electrocuting him, or Isabela giving him a new orifice where his liver used to be, how about we take him to your house and I kill him there? Either way he dies, but you finally fix your mirror."

How does Merrill react?

(And yes, I know your Hawke might not do this.)

That's one blood magic thing I never understood. I've wondered this since the Connor situation. Why can't the Warden/Hawke just use some random bandit who would be killed anyway as the life that is extinguished?

[Zjarcal]

Bann Duncan wrote...

That's one blood magic thing I never understood. I've wondered this since the Connor situation. Why can't the Warden/Hawke just use some random bandit who would be killed anyway as the life that is extinguished?

Hey, the way I imagine things go in my game, both my blood mage Warden and blood mage Hawke do that.... A LOT. 

How do you think I kept Avernus' research going on? :innocent:

EDIT: Yes, we'd make them go through the joining first.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 28 mars 2011 - 07:10 .

[Maria Caliban]

Bann Duncan wrote...

That's one blood magic thing I never understood. I've wondered this since the Connor situation. Why can't the Warden/Hawke just use some random bandit who would be killed anyway as the life that is extinguished?

I wondered that myself. I also wondered why I couldn't find a random person to give to Kitty instead of her taking the girl or having to fight her.

I mean, does a desire demon really want to experience the life of an 11-year-old?

Zjarcal wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Imagine that instead of Merethari taking the pride demon into herself, Merrill deals with it and learns that the eluvian can only be fixed with a blood magic ritual where someone dies. Later, Hawke and co. are slaughtering a bunch of gang members and Hawke says, "Hey, instead of me slicing this guy in half, you electrocuting him, or Isabela giving him a new orifice where his liver used to be, how about we take him to your house and I kill him there? Either way he dies, but you finally fix your mirror."

How does Merrill react?

I think she'd probably agree, I really don't see why not. I don't think the idea of a blood sacrifice like that would really freak her out that much... or would it?

Merrill might see a difference between killing someone who attacked them, and killing them later in a blood magic ritual. As far as I know, she never draws the power of blood magic from others.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 mars 2011 - 07:13 .

[DoNotIngest]

Oh, your Warden talks to war widows in the game, too, he must have got it on with them. And that girl who gives him a peck on the cheek for finding her little brother, obviously. This conversation is really going down hill...

[Maria Caliban]

DoNotIngest wrote...

Oh, your Warden talks to war widows in the game, too, he must have got it on with them. And that girl who gives him a peck on the cheek for finding her little brother, obviously. This conversation is really going down hill...

Howso?

[Herr Uhl]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

That's one blood magic thing I never understood. I've wondered this since the Connor situation. Why can't the Warden/Hawke just use some random bandit who would be killed anyway as the life that is extinguished?

I wondered that myself. I also wondered why I couldn't find a random person to give to Kitty instead of her taking the girl or having to fight her.

I mean, does a desire demon really want to experience the life of an 11-year-old?

The 11 year old will become older. Or she wants to act out on her loli fetish.

[Malevolence65]

Maria Caliban wrote...
(snip)

I think that Merrill would be receptive to the idea. My Hawke did a rivalmance with Merrill and he would actually agree to it. The thug/bandit is going to die anyway, right? Might as well be for a good cause. Of course, this is all hingng upon there not being any demons involved.

[Zjarcal]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Merrill might see a difference between killing someone who attacked them, and killing them later in a blood magic ritual. As far as I know, she never draws the power of blood magic from others.

That's the part that had me in doubt. I suppose it would also depend on who we're dealing with. Maybe if it was the Magistrate's son she'd approve? 

[Bann Duncan]

Zjarcal wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Merrill might see a difference between killing someone who attacked them, and killing them later in a blood magic ritual. As far as I know, she never draws the power of blood magic from others.

That's the part that had me in doubt. I suppose it would also depend on who we're dealing with. Maybe if it was the Magistrate's son she'd approve? 

Indeed. A ritual like that would be  a good way to make scum like the Magistrate's son, Orsino, Quentin and, hell, the Magistrate himself useful.

[jlb524]

Maria Caliban wrote...
Merrill might see a difference between killing someone who attacked them, and killing them later in a blood magic ritual. As far as I know, she never draws the power of blood magic from others.

Yeah, the situations (and the bandit's mental state) are vastly different.  In the first, the bandit is with a gang of other bandits and is probably full of adrenaline and acting on impulse and in a bit of haste....following their peers more or less.

In the latter situation, the bandit is captive and without allies and would probably swear never to do evil bandit things ever again if Hawke/Merrill let him/her go...and this might even be true.

Basically, it kind of feels wrong to outright kill this indivdual when they've had time to possibly reflect on their actions.

Modifié par jlb524, 28 mars 2011 - 07:30 .

[tmp7704]

LobselVith8 wrote...

If the demons could offer Hawke's companions their hearts' desire when rescuing Feynriel, why assume that Audacity wouldn't know that Marethari would sacrifice her life for Merrill? Audacity knew enough to make the claim about knowing about Arlathan and providing them mental images of the ancient civilization in the first place.

The demon could know that the Keeper would sacrifice herself to protect Merrill. But if it knew that, why not trick the Keeper way sooner, preferably as soon as Merrill started dealing with it? Instead, it tells Merrill how to fix the mirror and then just sits there on the off-chance that mere 5+ years later Merrill shows up again, and the clan of nomadic elves and their Keeper will be still around to save the person who abandoned them long time ago?

Simply because she takes precautions doesn't tell us any more about what realistic changes she had when she dealt with Audacity

People don't take precautions if they don't think precautions are needed. When you check for incoming cars before you cross the street it's because there can be incoming cars. If there was no real risk of incoming car, no one would bother.

Merrill wasn't sure she could handle the demon herself. She actually spends quite a bit of time early in Act 3 moping around and talking as if she was about to die, in the "banter" with others. This isn't something people do when they think there is no good reason to worry. Or at least, it's not what Merrill does

random miner: Don't go ahead, there's huge dragon there!
Merrill: Oh, are we gonna go ahead? I've never seen a huge dragon before!

that's typical Merrill. She's an elf that goes alone through Lowtown late at night without second thought "because nothing ever happens when i do". If she starts taking precautions, then things are pretty grave.
 

Given her training with the Keeper and that she can handle herself going up Sundermount, she seems perfectly capable of handling herself.

And yet when she herself has doubts if she can handle the demon on her own, you're second-guessing her?

Regardless of whether Hawke takes her along or not, he gets involved in dangerous situations, and it sounds a little far-fetched for him to tell Merrill how issues about Dalish technology should be handled if she's studied the lore for years and he's completely unfamiliar with it.

Hawke is unfamiliar with Dalish technology but that's not what he/she lectures Merrill about. He/she is telling her whether it's smart to try making deals with demons. And the demons are something you insist Hawke has lots of experience with.

Hawke handles a demon in Feynriel's dream realm of comparable stature.

In the Fade, yes. We don't know if handling these demons outside of Fade is any different. Also, there's an extra problem here -- these demons were "just" demons. Outside of the Fade it could highly likely be Merrill possessed by said demon and turned into abomination... a much more powerful enemy especially when you're making point how powerful Merrill supposedly is just on her own.

Modifié par tmp7704, 28 mars 2011 - 07:37 .

[Zjarcal]

jlb524 wrote...

Basically, it kind of feels wrong to outright kill this indivdual when they've had time to possibly reflect on their actions.

True, but if we're talking about somoene like say the Magistrate's son, who actually begs to be killed, she might think it's better to make his death worth it.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 28 mars 2011 - 07:37 .

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have a question and it has nothing to do with Merrill's sexual history.

BOOOORRRING <3

Imagine that instead of Merethari taking the pride demon into herself, Merrill deals with it and learns that the eluvian can only be fixed with a blood magic ritual where someone dies.

Later, Hawke and co. are slaughtering a bunch of gang members and Hawke says, "Hey, instead of me slicing this guy in half, you electrocuting him, or Isabela giving him a new orifice where his liver used to be, how about we take him to your house and I kill him there? Either way he dies, but you finally fix your mirror."

How does Merrill react?

(And yes, I know your Hawke might not do this.)

Well, my Hawke would! I can't see Merrill being all "Sure thing!" though... there may not be much difference rationally, but it feels different to kill him in the heat of battle versus sacrificing him in a blood ritual.

[DoNotIngest]

I think she might have taken exception to the elf mass murderer. No matter who it was, though, I doubt she'd have been happy with breaking her code of only her blood being used in her blood magic.

[TMA LIVE]

Zjarcal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Basically, it kind of feels wrong to outright kill this indivdual when they've had time to possibly reflect on their actions.

True, but if we're talking about somoene like say the Magistrate's son, who actually begs to be killed, she might think it's better to make his death worth it.

I doubt she'd want to make a slave out of someone, drag him everywhere, just to sacrifce him at the right moment. Especially a murderer. Besides, I doubt she'd support such a thing. I mean, she wants Anders to live in order to redeem himself. And he blew up a church, and almost killed someone once (or could/did?).

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 mars 2011 - 08:07 .

[mesmerizedish]

Imagine that instead of Merethari taking the pride demon into herself, Merrill deals with it and learns that the eluvian can only be fixed with a blood magic ritual where someone dies.

Later, Hawke and co. are slaughtering a bunch of gang members and Hawke says, "Hey, instead of me slicing this guy in half, you electrocuting him, or Isabela giving him a new orifice where his liver used to be, how about we take him to your house and I kill him there? Either way he dies, but you finally fix your mirror."

How does Merrill react?

(And yes, I know your Hawke might not do this.)

OH! BUT!!!

IDEA :wizard:




Anders... can you come here for a second? Merrill needs your help with something!

[Marcin K]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have a question and it has nothing to do with Merrill's sexual history.

BOOOORRRING <3

Imagine that instead of Merethari taking the pride demon into herself, Merrill deals with it and learns that the eluvian can only be fixed with a blood magic ritual where someone dies.

Later, Hawke and co. are slaughtering a bunch of gang members and Hawke says, "Hey, instead of me slicing this guy in half, you electrocuting him, or Isabela giving him a new orifice where his liver used to be, how about we take him to your house and I kill him there? Either way he dies, but you finally fix your mirror."

How does Merrill react?

(And yes, I know your Hawke might not do this.)

Well, my Hawke would! I can't see Merrill being all "Sure thing!" though... there may not be much difference rationally, but it feels different to kill him in the heat of battle versus sacrificing him in a blood ritual.

well my Hawke would use some firewave [old-school i know ]to separathe himself and Merrill from enemies and then he would have a looong talk with Merril [unthreatened due to the firewall he's made] about how he loves Merrill and wants her to stay pure and if she does love Hawke that much also then she would agree to abandon bloody practices and after the battle Merrill and Hawke wold have another "chat" in Hawke's bedroom to make up for Merrill not using blood magic-how  about that?

[jlb524]

Zjarcal wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Basically, it kind of feels wrong to outright kill this indivdual when they've had time to possibly reflect on their actions.

True, but if we're talking about somoene like say the Magistrate's son, who actually begs to be killed, she might think it's better to make his death worth it.

Okay, but I still think it would be difficult for her to do.  In the heat of battle when goons are attacking you, it's not too difficult to kill them as you are mainly defending yourself.   A different mindset is there.

I think it would be more difficult for her to kill a person that's tied up and is no immediate physical threat to her, even if they deserve it.  I'm not saying she wouldn't do it, but it would be different.