17176 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's easy to look at her and see a good character like Leliana, but we know that previously Mary worked on Sten and Loghain, who were both not traditionally good people.

On the other hand with this track record maybe Merrill will be "good" just because it's opportunity for her writer to play with something new... it would be actually quite new for elves in DA in general now that i think of it. Most of them so far had good reasons to be pretty bitter or otherwise twisted; Fenris included.

[ViSeiRa]

tmp7704 wrote...

Problem with this would be, the claims about being taught by the Old Gods supposedly come from the first magister himself, long before the Chantry even existed.

History is always twisted in the favor of whoever won, how did we ever know that the first magister himself said that? unless there are actual tomes, documents from that time verifying it... none, it's fairly possible that after Andraste nearly defeated Tevinter they hidden the truth and made it look like the Old Gods taught the tevinters their magic in order to further expnad the worship of the maker.

raziel3080 wrote...

That's the point I was wanting to make with that...if they do something of that nature with her story then atleast make the reason different...I actually like the dalish elf warden's prologue story ending style for her...with her getting up with the Magical power or force that emitting from the mirror. That way you can explain her banishment from the clan as well as her...I'm gonna say even STRONGER profiency with magic...no matter what spec it is she gets along with her primary mage skills. It will be a quite fun to play around with her skill perspective as well as delve deeper into her own personal storyline and plot perspective. 

If it's true and she's exiled, I'm pretty sure it has something to do **spoilers** with the amulet quest after you deliver it to the dalish, as she's still with the clan by then, in the magazine they say she uses something akin to blood magic to break a magical barrier, so it's quite possible.

Maria Caliban wrote...

She makes me want to do a dalish elf run-through just to find out what differences, if any, are in her conversation.

I doubt that Merrill will be cast out the same way as Velanna. It might be related to her 'blood magic' spec.

It's important to realize that the companion specializations are unique to them and have a bit more to them than DA:O, so it could be a blend of blood magic and keeper magic that she's worked on.

What about her 'morality?'

It's easy to look at her and see a good character like Leliana, but we know that previously Mary worked on Sten and Loghain, who were both not traditionally good people.

I'd love to have Merrill as one of the morality ambiguous characters, where she doesn't see the world in the obvious black vs. white, humans vs. elves... it'd be interesting to see how she comprehends the complexity of the human world, I also doubt she'd be cast out mainly due to the fact that she did strike me as the type who normally does the right things (unless as I've said the dalish precieve blood magic differently) we'll have to see how that plays out.

Modifié par ViSeirA, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:25 .

[Addai]

SandyWB wrote...

shepard_lives wrote...

You want elves to look similar to humans? I'm not sure I understand.

Short answer, yes, yes I do.

Or rather, I want them to look like they did in Origins.
 
Long answer: I get that the art team wanted to make their elves unique from an artistic point of view. But what I really liked about the elves in Origins was that they felt and looked human in the sense that they didn't feel 'fantasy', if you catch my drift. They didn't feel like the 'magical wood-elves' that have been bastardised by various fantasy themed works over the decades. Don't get me wrong, there have been good version of elves running around since Tolkien, but I really liked the fresh take Bioware took with their elves. Dirty them up, make them slightly human in appearance without loosing the pointed ears and slim build. That was a great move in my opinion. I just think it was a great way to make the elves accessible and relatable. I never much care for the standard elves, magically in touch with nature, immortal and otherworldly. I enjoyed the 'flawed' and 'human' elves from Origins far more. I'm not saying they will shy away from the culture and such that they established in Origins, because that would really be a step backwards. However, I feel that this redesign to make the elves more fantasy-inspired takes away from the elves I learned to love in Origins.

I guess it all comes down to what you like. Some like WoW type elves (a far extreme example, I know) with alien features, slanting ears, big eyes etc... being a very different race than humans. Others, like me, like their elves with only slightly pointed ears and looking close to what humans look like, perhaps only with a slightly thinner/smaller build.

Just saying, I want my 'knife ears', not some slanting puppy ears.

But, to each their own.

Yeah I agree completely.  I'm a big fan of Tolkien elves, but more the Noldor who are the "fallen" elves and earthier- as earthy and sexy as the Professor gets, anyway.  So I really like the idea of elves as being the fringe of society.  But at the same time I prefer a more low-fantasy take on the fantasy races, where distinctions are cultural and if there are physical distinctions, they have a story purpose and aren't just "because they ought to look different."  Which to me is a way of saying "let's make them look strange just because" or pushing them into anime/ WoW territory.

[David Gaider]

Lord Gremlin wrote...
Like cat ears? Now, she was cute already, that's just overdoing it. This character is about to leave dark fantasy area and enter hentai...

Perhaps you could try a little harder. I don't think you quite broke a sweat, there.

[Onyx Jaguar]

The imagery in my mind from that back and forth is horrific

[Noilly Prat]

I know I'm probably not the first (or second, or third, or fourth) to say this, but based on that one image of Merrill, she literally looks about twelve years old to me. It may be due in large part to the perspective making her look half the height of the other two characters (Hawke?), but just going off that image, I don't think I would be able to get on board with a romance.



If she is an adult, and if she does turn out to be a romanceable character, obviously I would withhold judgement until I'm actually playing the game. I don't really have a very strong conception of what a lot of the other characters look like, either, based on their brief and limited appearances in videos and screenshots.

[leggywillow]

Maria Caliban wrote...

It's easy to look at her and see a good character like Leliana, but we know that previously Mary worked on Sten and Loghain, who were both not traditionally good people.

When David Gaider said a few pages back that the great evil writers who thrive on human tears also find her cute, I immediately got this Gremlins vibe.  We're just seeing Merril in her mogwai form.  Don't pour water on her or feed her after midnight...

Modifié par leggywillow, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:30 .

[Quinnzel]

She's far too cute to be 'good'. I'm betting she's a homicidal maniac!



Remember people: No one EVER suspects the butterfly!

[Onyx Jaguar]

But that has me always suspecting the butterfly

[Addai]

I am wondering if there is a story/ lore purpose for why Fenris looks... well, normalish... in comparison to dear Meri-bear here. Like if he has taken on more human features and proportions by being in close contact with humans, whereas the Dalish are supposed to look more "fantasy elf" elven.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:38 .

[tmp7704]

ViSeirA wrote...

History is always twisted in the favor of whoever won, how did we ever know that the first magister himself said that? unless there are actual tomes, documents from that time verifying it... none, it's fairly possible that after Andraste nearly defeated Tevinter they hidden the truth and made it look like the Old Gods taught the tevinters their magic in order to further expnad the worship of the maker.

Considering these claims were used as base on which the cult of Old Gods was established in Tevinter and lasted for hundreds of years, it's just difficult to imagine such huge part of history of the Imperium to get overwritten without any trace of the truth. Yes, i expect there's actual tomes, documents and so on dating back to these times.

Also, Andraste didn't exactly defeat the Tevinter -- the war ended in truce sealed with her death. And the Chantry didn't get established until many years later. As such, i don't think it's in position to hide any truths; not when Tevinter is still around and perfectly capable of objecting to any such attempts if they did find them objectionable.

[Maria Caliban]

I have no idea if that's the truth (according to the romans, their city was founded by twin humans raised by wolves) but it's probably what the Tevinter believed.

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Addai67 wrote...

I am wondering if there is a story/ lore purpose for why Fenris looks... well, normalish... in comparison to dear Meri-bear here. Like if he has taken on more human features and proportions by being in close contact with humans, whereas the Dalish are supposed to look more "fantasy elf" elven.

Sexual dimorphism.

[MerinTB]

Saibh wrote...
So, I slightly manipulated this picture of Merrill to abide by what some people prefer--in terms of ear shape, eye size, and bust size. I don't prefer this version, and because of that I didn't manipulate her eyes and face too much, but I'm curious to see if some people do.

Given the two, I'd rather see yours.  But I don't really have any issue with Merrill as is, either.

[The Elder King]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have no idea if that's the truth (according to the romans, their city was founded by twin humans raised by wolves) but it's probably what the Tevinter believed.

By only one female wolf, and was only the Rome mythic foundation theory. There are a lot of theories about Rome's foundation. (sorry for the OT, I'm a bis fan of Rome's history:P)

I'm not sure if the Tevinter's magic is linked with Arlathan's elves, one of the reason is the fact that the elven magic and lore are lost, and the dalish are tryng to bring it back.

[tmp7704]

Addai67 wrote...

I am wondering if there is a story/ lore purpose for why Fenris looks... well, normalish... in comparison to dear Meri-bear here. Like if he has taken on more human features and proportions by being in close contact with humans, whereas the Dalish are supposed to look more "fantasy elf" elven.

I think that's because the males have quite exaggerated proportions in DA. So if you take that at starting point and slim it down a lot, you get something that looks pretty close to a slender human.

On the other hand the females had normal proportions in DA (ignoring the chest thing for the moment) so if that gets slimmed down by similar amount, you get Merrill.

[Kimarous]

Drizzt ORierdan wrote...

SHOOOOPIDIDUP!!!! 

AM I KAWAII??? UGUU!!! (Translator's note: "Kawaii" means "Cute")

[ViSeiRa]

tmp7704 wrote...

ViSeirA wrote...

History is always twisted in the favor of whoever won, how did we ever know that the first magister himself said that? unless there are actual tomes, documents from that time verifying it... none, it's fairly possible that after Andraste nearly defeated Tevinter they hidden the truth and made it look like the Old Gods taught the tevinters their magic in order to further expnad the worship of the maker.

Considering these claims were used as base on which the cult of Old Gods was established in Tevinter and lasted for hundreds of years, it's just difficult to imagine such huge part of history of the Imperium to get overwritten without any trace of the truth. Yes, i expect there's actual tomes, documents and so on dating back to these times.

Also, Andraste didn't exactly defeat the Tevinter -- the war ended in truce sealed with her death. And the Chantry didn't get established until many years later. As such, i don't think it's in position to hide any truths; not when Tevinter is still around and perfectly capable of objecting to any such attempts if they did find them objectionable.

Well, I don't want to derail the thread but I can assume both of us have elements of truth, we'll never know for sure.

[Maria Caliban]

I thought Sheryl considered most anime creepy?

ViSeirA wrote...

Well, I don't want to derail the thread but I can assume both of us have elements of truth, we'll never know for sure.

We might find out. There are many Dragon Age games to look forward to.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:50 .

[Eorion_Moonwing]

Addai67 wrote...

I am wondering if there is a story/ lore purpose for why Fenris looks... well, normalish... in comparison to dear Meri-bear here. Like if he has taken on more human features and proportions by being in close contact with humans, whereas the Dalish are supposed to look more "fantasy elf" elven.

Sexual dimorphism.
And from this full body shot I got an impression that he is thin too. Just male.

Modifié par Eorion_Moonwing, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:50 .

[Dave of Canada]

Didn't know we had elves in real life to say what looks like an elf and what doesn't.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Bioware is staffed with a bunch of ink to paper haters!



Instead they rely on Hard Steel and Plastic to make their fake people!

[Pseudo the Mustachioed]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Didn't know we had elves in real life to say what looks like an elf and what doesn't.

You've never met an elf? You must live in the middle of nowhere or something.

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...
Hmm. Yes, I can see how dissecting a single screenshot (*cough*Carver*cough*) could give one all sorts of problems.

You keep making this point, but early on I posted 4 different shots to help.  I know others have screen capped more as well.

I do think people ARE being too nitpicky, I agree with your sentiment.

But there's a whole short video clip (granted, a few seconds) plus at least 5 angles shown in between this and the Dev Diary thread -

linkie to what I posted (in case people came here and didn't see it there) http://social.biowar...0738/13#5682128

I get the point you mean, and overall I agree that it's not quite enough to judge her overall appearance from...

but with animation and several screens, it's not just an artifact of one angle or bad lighting on one frame.  It's that whole scene.

We need a profile shot of her, preferrably standing next to human female model, to be able to judge at all reasonably at this point.

---

And I say all that WHILST liking what Merrill looks like overall.

[Addai]

Pseudocognition wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I am wondering if there is a story/ lore purpose for why Fenris looks... well, normalish... in comparison to dear Meri-bear here. Like if he has taken on more human features and proportions by being in close contact with humans, whereas the Dalish are supposed to look more "fantasy elf" elven.

Sexual dimorphism.

That would explain height and stature maybe, but not facial structure and ears.

It could just be individuals varying or just angle/ resolution playing tricks.  Guess we'll have to see more elves to determine if the mashed-face, big-eyed, floppy-eared look is just Merrill or more of a racial thing.