17177 réponses à ce sujet

[Zjarcal]

Tigerking wrote...
And for the record, I think Fenris' disagreements with Merrill are a whole lot more understandable than Anders'. He's still being unreasonable, but you can see where he's coming from.

Heh, funny that you mention that, I feel the opposite actually. Maybe it's due to the banter Anders has with her after Marethari dies (where Anders tells her it's not too late to rectify her path and avoid any further pain or something like that).

Still... they both could use some slapping from Ciera Hawke. 

[stormrain]

^Ciera your avatar? ****, I'm surprised Fenris and Anders would dare to open their traps with eyes like those...

I'm with Tigerking on understanding Fenris' dislike for Merrill better than Anders'. He's still way out of line. But I understand why. There was actually a discussion in the Fenris thread that I came across that put it well. I'll have to find it. But that thread moves so fast, part of me doubts that I can.

EDIT: Found it here. It's longer than I'd thought it'd be, so apologies in advance:

Village Idiot wrote...

Namuri wrote...
The only person Fenris is a complete jackass to is Merrill, and that's because she uses bloodmagic, and then tries to be his friend.

That's part of it, but mostly I think he is frustrated with her fixation on reclaiming history.  I don't disagree with her intentions and I don't enjoy some of things he says to her.  But I think this dialogue is pretty telling as far as why he's so cruel at times to her.

Fenris: I don't want your pity.
Merrill: Are you talking to me?
Fenris: You said you were sorry about the ritual I endured. Keep your sorrow.
Merrill: I only meant—
Fenris: You have all the freedom none of our kind enjoy, and you throw it away. On what?
Merrill: Our people need to reclaim their heritage.
Fenris: A heritage of defeat? To what end?
Merrill: Would you truly turn your back on your own history? There's so much we don't know...
Fenris: It's not my history. It's simply history.

And then there's also this...

Fenris: Avert your eyes, witch.
Merrill: You said I was dwelling on "useless" history, but what are you doing?
Merrill: The past is important, to you and to all of us. We must know it to move forward.
Fenris: You had a life. You had a family. And you abandoned them to chase after ghosts.
Fenris: We are nothing alike. Don't even begin to think that we are.

I think this is the real problem that Fenris has with Merrill.  The blood magic and consorting with demons is part of it, yes, but to throw away freedom which she has already and to discard family as her clan IS her family so that she could embrace  and pursue forbidden magic, something he considers downright detestable, this is the sort behavior that leads him to loathe her.

Helen0rz wrote...
I do think as time goes on his dislike towards her was not about blood magic anymore, it really is just about her throwing everyhing HE ever wanted/could've had away. That's why he called her a monster (i think? right?) when the keepr died, he was referring to what she has become over the years, all she had given up and for what? for the death of someone that was like a mother to her, you know?

Namuri wrote...
I agree, very much so.  One big thing is definitely the fact that she abandoned the present to embrace the past. I mean, Fenris spends all this time trying to escape his past--and failing, more often then not--the idea of someone just giving up /everything/ so that they can figure out something that is, literally, ancient history must be so foriegn to him.  Add to that the fact that the person who did so was a mage, and fell into /blood magic/ and it's sort of impossible for him to like her.  At all >>;

So... yeah. Fenris is still a douche for being so cruel, but I understand why.

And I'm pretty sure Emrys Hawke decked him off screen for opening his mouth. No one talks to his girl like that. Kara Hawke just scolded him and made him feel guilty.

Modifié par Captain Uccisore, 30 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[Tigerking]

Zjarcal wrote...

Tigerking wrote...
And for the record, I think Fenris' disagreements with Merrill are a whole lot more understandable than Anders'. He's still being unreasonable, but you can see where he's coming from.

Heh, funny that you mention that, I feel the opposite actually. Maybe it's due to the banter Anders has with her after Marethari dies (where Anders tells her it's not too late to rectify her path and avoid any further pain or something like that).

Still... they both could use some slapping from Ciera Hawke. 

Maybe. I thought he was just saying that to put more salt on the wound really. At that point, it seemed like he wouldn't shut up about it.
 I get the feeling though that what he said right after the Marethari monologue - that Marethari wasted her life on Merrill and that the world is poorer for having Merrill in it - was so completely inhuman - and it was clearly what he really thought - that he passed the event horizon for me in terms of likability. I didn't care what he said or did after that, I would take any chance I could to get him out of my party. And I took that chance.

[Zjarcal]

Captain Uccisore wrote...

^Ciera your avatar? ****, I'm surprised Fenris and Anders would dare to open their traps with eyes like those...

Tell me about it. I'm also suprised at the amount of idiots running to their deaths towards her despite the eyes giving them a stern warning. 

Actually Anders usually likes to make a staring contest with her... blue vs red. 

[Torax]

Tigerking wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Tigerking wrote...
And for the record, I think Fenris' disagreements with Merrill are a whole lot more understandable than Anders'. He's still being unreasonable, but you can see where he's coming from.

Heh, funny that you mention that, I feel the opposite actually. Maybe it's due to the banter Anders has with her after Marethari dies (where Anders tells her it's not too late to rectify her path and avoid any further pain or something like that).

Still... they both could use some slapping from Ciera Hawke. 

Maybe. I thought he was just saying that to put more salt on the wound really. At that point, it seemed like he wouldn't shut up about it.
 I get the feeling though that what he said right after the Marethari monologue - that Marethari wasted her life on Merrill and that the world is poorer for having Merrill in it - was so completely inhuman - and it was clearly what he really thought - that he passed the event horizon for me in terms of likability. I didn't care what he said or did after that, I would take any chance I could to get him out of my party. And I took that chance.

The only topic Anders would not want to talk about is anything regarding him being an abomination. The rest of it where he tries to get everyone to go to war for his cause? He never shuts up about that. Infact I think he really loaths Merrill for 3 reasons.

1. She uses blood magic.
2. she won't agree about spirits and demons being completely different. Part of his Abomination complex.
3. She doesn't believe the Mage/Templar fight is hers to have.

I bet if she was all over that 3rd one with him? He wouldn't be trying to rip her down every chance he gets even after she was scared straight.


As for Fenris. He's a bit of a hipocrit once he finds out his real past. Give credit where it's due though. He does think every mage has the potential for being far more dangerous. He knows that both the Circle and the Magisters are polar opposites of something that doesn't really work. His main annoyance with both Anders and Merrill is that they do seem reckless to be honest. Reckless mages can become big problems.

The prime example for Fenris and how he views magic. He only really cautions Bethany in regards to Templars hunting her as an Apostate. Infact in one of the conversations it's Bethany who brings up demons. Not Fenris. He just asks her more than once about the danger of Templars hunting her.

Modifié par Torax, 30 mars 2011 - 06:00 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Yeah, that whole discussion gains new meaning once we find that's exactly what he did regarding his own family.

[Jorrkit]

Being mean to Merrill is cause enough for hatred and/or dismemberment, in my book. Both Fenris and Anders can suck it.

Modifié par Jorrkit, 30 mars 2011 - 06:24 .

[Paraxial]

Jorrkit wrote...

Being mean to Merrill is cause enough for hatred and/or dismemberment, in my book. Both Fenris and Anders can suck it.

The only instance where their cruelty to her really bothered me was having them in party when the Keeper died.

Too soon.

[DoNotIngest]

Bible Doctor wrote...

Jorrkit wrote...

Being mean to Merrill is cause enough for hatred and/or dismemberment, in my book. Both Fenris and Anders can suck it.

The only instance where their cruelty to her really bothered me was having them in party when the Keeper died.

Too soon.

 Killing Fenris and Anders. And you can even re-enslave Fenris, which is a nice change from just killing, killing, killing.




That bit of FanFic was nice. I didn't worry about the grammar, and it was pretty good. Emperor, why don't you experience your beloved slavery? You sit at the computer, I lash you. We do 400 pages, take a break. Come back ever 2 weeks. Deal?

[Ace Attorney]

Well to switch up the conversation a bit, I think Fenris has one of the best Voices in the game.

In my current file (Male Hawke Force/Blood Mage) I'm debating whether Fenris or Merrill deserve my fourth spot. Aveline is the second (Tank) and the third is Isabela / Varric for lockpicking. Fenris is a stagger machine, helping my Lighting spells, and can use my Brittle with his 2H skill. Merrill is also a damage machine.

I guess Fenris could be Tank but I dunno (playing on Hard) but for long fights he may not cut it. I like keeping the same party through the whole game so switching for long fights like the High Dragon, etc. feels wrong.

[DoNotIngest]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Well to switch up the conversation a bit, I think Fenris has one of the best Voices in the game.

In my current file (Male Hawke Force/Blood Mage) I'm debating whether Fenris or Merrill deserve my fourth spot. Aveline is the second (Tank) and the third is Isabela / Varric for lockpicking. Fenris is a stagger machine, helping my Lighting spells, and can use my Brittle with his 2H skill. Merrill is also a damage machine.

I guess Fenris could be Tank but I dunno (playing on Hard) but for long fights he may not cut it. I like keeping the same party through the whole game so switching for long fights like the High Dragon, etc. feels wrong.

Though it was only on Normal, my 2h Hawke succesfully tanked the entire game with more strength than constitution. If you make him a bit tougher, Fenris would probably tank. But, of course, he is a douche. Fenris vs Merrill, whether you're looking for a character or a powerhouse, choice is the same

[RVonE]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

I love the usebar, Anubis! *Puts it on*

I have a question for those who friendmance Merrill: What class is your Hawke when you romance her? I use a mage only because I feel that a Mage!Hawke would understand the benefits(and not just the dangers) of repairing the Eluvian better than a normal Hawke who uses mere weapons, let alone finding benefits in using blood magic.

Five or six pages too late, but I want to chime in and say that my F!Hawke who friendmanced Merrill is a Two-hander, Vanguard Berserker. She makes irrational decisions everytime Merrill is attacked.

[Ace Attorney]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Well to switch up the conversation a bit, I think Fenris has one of the best Voices in the game.

In my current file (Male Hawke Force/Blood Mage) I'm debating whether Fenris or Merrill deserve my fourth spot. Aveline is the second (Tank) and the third is Isabela / Varric for lockpicking. Fenris is a stagger machine, helping my Lighting spells, and can use my Brittle with his 2H skill. Merrill is also a damage machine.

I guess Fenris could be Tank but I dunno (playing on Hard) but for long fights he may not cut it. I like keeping the same party through the whole game so switching for long fights like the High Dragon, etc. feels wrong.

Oh, I forgot the other little fact that I would be competing with Merrill for Blood Mage items.

I'm still thinking if Hawke will romance Merrill since they are both Blood Mages or just become friends. Hehe.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 30 mars 2011 - 12:46 .

[einherjar81]

DoNotIngest wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

Well to switch up the conversation a bit, I think Fenris has one of the best Voices in the game.

In my current file (Male Hawke Force/Blood Mage) I'm debating whether Fenris or Merrill deserve my fourth spot. Aveline is the second (Tank) and the third is Isabela / Varric for lockpicking. Fenris is a stagger machine, helping my Lighting spells, and can use my Brittle with his 2H skill. Merrill is also a damage machine.

I guess Fenris could be Tank but I dunno (playing on Hard) but for long fights he may not cut it. I like keeping the same party through the whole game so switching for long fights like the High Dragon, etc. feels wrong.

Though it was only on Normal, my 2h Hawke succesfully tanked the entire game with more strength than constitution. If you make him a bit tougher, Fenris would probably tank. But, of course, he is a douche. Fenris vs Merrill, whether you're looking for a character or a powerhouse, choice is the same

I used Fenris as a primary tank in a couple playthroughs.  He does alright, provided you have the right supporting cast around him.  Swords like "Her Song" that boost healing and regeneration help a lot, as does the knowledge that Health potions, elfroot potions, and restoration potions use separate  cooldowns. 

[LobselVith8]

jlb524 wrote...

I have a question for blood mage Hawkes: is this magic learned from Merrill or did Hawke pick it up somewhere else?

I don't know if this was asked before, but I've always wondered if BM Hawke learns it from her.

I wonder what the in-game explanation for this would be, too. I initially wondered if we're supposed to assume that Malcolm Hawke might have instructed his eldest on the use of blood magic (since I recall Leandra and Bethany comparing Anders to Malcolm, and wondered if it was because they shared revolutionary ideas about the mages). I think Merrill teaching Hawke how to use blood magic would make a lot of sense, though. I'd have liked to see Hawke and Merrill discussing blood magic as an art, sharing magical knowledge from their respective backgrounds, entering the Fade together (sans the Feynriel imperative), since I think it would have been more interesting than simply pushing a button for a Specialization Point.

[Maria Caliban]

Forget how Hawke becomes a blood mage. How does Hawke become a Templar?

I miss learning specializations from companions, NPCs, and world events.

[flexxdk]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I miss learning specializations from companions, NPCs, and world events.

I miss that too.

It's strange, though. The tomes manuals to learn all these specialisations are in the game. There are even three unused specialisations that I would've loved to see.

Why implement tomes manuals when you're not going to use them anyway?

Modifié par Whacka, 30 mars 2011 - 02:01 .

[Maria Caliban]

What tomes are you talking about?

[flexxdk]

Maria Caliban wrote...

What tomes are you talking about?

Er... My bad, I made a mistake here. Manuals, they were... I always mistake manuals for tomes...

Sorry for that.

Or do you want to know which manuals specifically?

Modifié par Whacka, 30 mars 2011 - 02:05 .

[Shepard Lives]

Maria Caliban wrote...


I miss learning specializations from companions, NPCs, and world events.

This, so much. It's my single biggest non-writing-related beef with the game. Though I guess it's still somewhat writing-related...

[Shepard Lives]

Whacka wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

What tomes are you talking about?

Er... My bad, I made a mistake here. Manuals, they were... I always mistake manuals for tomes...

Sorry for that.

Still not sure what you're talking about...

[flexxdk]

Shepard Lives wrote...

Whacka wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

What tomes are you talking about?

Er... My bad, I made a mistake here. Manuals, they were... I always mistake manuals for tomes...

Sorry for that.

Still not sure what you're talking about...

Well...

They're simply called this:
Manual: Blood Mage Specialization
Manual: Archmage Specialization
Manual: Assassin Specialization
Manual:...

Like this:


There are more than that, of course. 12 manuals in total. They cannot be found in the game, but when you have activated the command console and have installed this mod, all you gotta type in is "runscript vaddin manual" and you get the same window as in the picture.

However, they don't have any effect when you "grab" them. And you can't use them on companions.

Also, the Archmage Manual, the Bard Manual and the Juggernaut Manual do nothing. They don't unlock any new specializations. I would've loved to see these specializations in the game, though...

And I'm more than sure that you people already knew.

...Right?

But perhaps we should start talking about Merrill again. We're kind of drifting off here...

Modifié par Whacka, 30 mars 2011 - 02:31 .

[Maria Caliban]

No, I knew nothing about specialization manuals that don't appear in the game and are only available via console.

Merrill fanarts:

[mesmerizedish]

I made that my new wallpaper

[flexxdk]

Assuming the red stuff is blood, I can only say that it's a lot of blood.

It might take a towel or three to clean that mess up...

Seriously though, I kind of like it. Not exactly my taste, but well made.