17177 réponses à ce sujet

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Success! *icecreamparty*

Success indeed!

[TheBlackBaron]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
If you've treated her as a friend up until the knife quest, and then stab her in the back and keep it, you'd likely end up somewhere around the middle, unable to get anything accomplished (as it should be). The system rewards consistency.

Actually, with how the mirror tool swaps friendship to an equivalent rivalry and then dumps more points on it, you'd just roll right on with the rivalmance path. I kind of wish I'd figured this out sooner, then I wouldn't have had to search parts to get rivalry with Merrill without being mean to her in my current game. I did the same thing with Isabela, since this was originally intended to be a run where I romanced her. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 22 avril 2011 - 08:34 .

[mesmerizedish]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
If you've treated her as a friend up until the knife quest, and then stab her in the back and keep it, you'd likely end up somewhere around the middle, unable to get anything accomplished (as it should be). The system rewards consistency.

Actually, with how the mirror tool swaps friendship to an equivalent rivalry and then dumps more points on it, you'd just roll right on with the rivalmance path. I kind of wish I'd figured this out sooner, then I wouldn't have had to search parts to get rivalry with Merrill without being mean to her in my current game. I did the same thing with Isabela, since this was originally intended to be a run where I romanced her.

Who says it swaps for equivalent rivalry? I was under the impression that it just got you 75 rivalry points.

[TheBlackBaron]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

TheBlackBaron wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
If you've treated her as a friend up until the knife quest, and then stab her in the back and keep it, you'd likely end up somewhere around the middle, unable to get anything accomplished (as it should be). The system rewards consistency.

Actually, with how the mirror tool swaps friendship to an equivalent rivalry and then dumps more points on it, you'd just roll right on with the rivalmance path. I kind of wish I'd figured this out sooner, then I wouldn't have had to search parts to get rivalry with Merrill without being mean to her in my current game. I did the same thing with Isabela, since this was originally intended to be a run where I romanced her.

Who says it swaps for equivalent rivalry? I was under the impression that it just got you 75 rivalry points.

People have been reporting wildly different numbers for what not giving her the mirror tool gives in rivalry, so somebody smart eventually figured out that that's what it did. Swaps any friendship into rivalry, then gives 15 rivalry points. 

[SilentK]

Which is great to know. I have been rude to Merrill in two games now to keep on the rivalry path =) silly me.

[hoorayforicecream]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Who says it swaps for equivalent rivalry? I was under the impression that it just got you 75 rivalry points.

It varies with how much friendship you have. The highest possible amount is +155 rivalry, I think.

[mesmerizedish]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Who says it swaps for equivalent rivalry? I was under the impression that it just got you 75 rivalry points.

It varies with how much friendship you have. The highest possible amount is +155 rivalry, I think.

Well that's stupid. It should give you a buttload of rivalry points, but being that inconsistent should not be a reward. If it converts your friendship to rivalry and then adds 15 more rivalry points, that's a reward.

[EDIT] I have to keep track of this post. If anyone ever accuses me of being too BDF, I want to be able to say "Look, I said something DAII did was stupid."

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 22 avril 2011 - 09:10 .

[Wulfram]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Well that's stupid. It should give you a buttload of rivalry points, but being that inconsistent should not be a reward. If it converts your friendship to rivalry and then adds 15 more rivalry points, that's a reward.

[EDIT] I have to keep track of this post. If anyone ever accuses me of being too BDF, I want to be able to say "Look, I said something DAII did was stupid."

There's nothing inconsistent about it.  You mostly get friendship for being pro-mage, which says nothing about your views on spooky mirrors.

[mesmerizedish]

Wulfram wrote...

There's nothing inconsistent about it.  You mostly get friendship for being pro-mage, which says nothing about your views on spooky mirrors.

That's not where most of my friendship points came from.

But that's a problem with the friendship/rivalry system. It uses a single continuum to juggle innumerable issues.

But, I'm not calling the whole system stupid, because I think it kicked ass. But that's something they can work on for DAIII.

[Elrona_gf]

broutefoin wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Elrona_gf wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

This may not be relevant anymore (if so, then ignore) but a few weeks ago someone here was looking for a vid of Varric's comments in regards to Merrill's romance.

I finally messed with the console to get the convo to trigger and uploaded a vid (with all dialog choices) here.

Many thanks for the video! Can you tell us what exactly has to be done to trigger this quest?

I'm curious, too; how can this can be triggered on the console?

to trigger it via the command console, type runscript zz_vrc_debug and go to jump to conversation, and other, there should be romance commentary , and for prerequisite for the quest, one of the devs said that you need to be in a romance and complete anyone of the qunari related quests (like blackpowder courtesy)

to enable command console on PC:
http://dragonage.wik...(Dragon_Age_II)

Thanks a lot, I will try it today!

[Maria Caliban]

I think the insta-rival for Merrill is great. Just like I think Isabela being harder to friendship or rival than other companions is great.

Bad is Fenris.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I think the insta-rival for Merrill is great. Just like I think Isabela being harder to friendship or rival than other companions is great.

Bad is Fenris.

It should be a flat (large) rivalry increase, not an "insta-rival." Progressing in either direction is a good thing. Being nice and supportive and then stabbing Merrill in the back is a bad thing. It shouldn't result in a good thing. The system is designed to reward consistency, and in this case, it's rewarding a bad choice.

Just as making poor skill choices can gimp your characte, making poor story choices should also have negative consequences. In this case, ending up with your Merrill standing in the middle (and thus not getting her conversations or quests or what have you) is an appropriate consequence.

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Being nice and supportive and then stabbing Merrill in the back is a bad thing. It shouldn't result in a good thing.

I think the problem here is that you've decided withholding the magical-knifey-thing is stabbing Merrill in the back.

That's fine if it's your interpretation but there are other ways to interpret that action and it's okay for the game to reward the PC for stabbing Merrill in the back.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Being nice and supportive and then stabbing Merrill in the back is a bad thing. It shouldn't result in a good thing.

I think the problem here is that you've decided withholding the magical-knifey-thing is stabbing Merrill in the back.

That's fine if it's your interpretation but there are other ways to interpret that action and it's okay for the game to reward the PC for stabbing Merrill in the back.

You misunderstand me (I think). Withholding the knife isn't stabbing Merrill in the back. Withholding the knife, after progressing along her friendship path up to that point, is stabbing Merrill in the back. You're flip-flopping on everything you've done up to that point regarding Merrill. That's what the game shouldn't reward.

Except, as someone above pointed out, you can get all friendly just by being nice to mages and never saying anything about Merrill's mirror or blood magic, etc. That's a problem with the system (or at least, with how it's implemented).

[Bfler]

What I would like to see is an option to destroy the mirror. Maybe a quest where you have to bring Merrill to the hanged man and while Isabela or Varric draw her attention to something else you have to break into her hut and to smash the mirror.

[TheAwesomologist]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I agree. Even though Bethany mentions it again when they talk about the Dalish not having a Circle, there's never a vibe that made it seem they didn't get along, particularly after Merrill's dialogue with Bethany about eating a cake the size of Kirkwall or having a pet griffin named Feathers.

I love Merrill's dialog. She has some of the best and funniest banter in the game.

[Marcin K]

yay we've crossed 500 mark during last day/night/evening/afternoon [pick correct one based on your location]

TheAwesomologist wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I agree. Even though Bethany mentions it again when they talk about the Dalish not having a Circle, there's never a vibe that made it seem they didn't get along, particularly after Merrill's dialogue with Bethany about eating a cake the size of Kirkwall or having a pet griffin named Feathers.

I love Merrill's dialog. She has some of the best and funniest banter in the game.

i agree

Modifié par Marcin R, 22 avril 2011 - 02:00 .

[Maria Caliban]

Bfler wrote...

What I would like to see is an option to destroy the mirror. Maybe a quest where you have to bring Merrill to the hanged man and while Isabela or Varric draw her attention to something else you have to break into her hut and to smash the mirror.

While she'd definitely hate you for that, I'm not sure it would be useful. The mirror started off broken and she fixed it.

[TheAwesomologist]

Bfler wrote...

What I would like to see is an option to destroy the mirror. Maybe a quest where you have to bring Merrill to the hanged man and while Isabela or Varric draw her attention to something else you have to break into her hut and to smash the mirror.

She'll destroy the mirror on her own if you just rivalmance her (or play through without 1.02 patch), no need to go behind her back about it. 

[_Somebody]

I dont remember this scene being in the game.

[LobselVith8]

Somebody wrote...

I dont remember this scene being in the game.

It's likely another deleted scene. DanaDuchy includes a few, including one where Teegan is asking Hawke to help Connor get out of Kirkwall and another where Elthina says Hawke was impressive in how he dealt with Cassandra.

[Marcin K]

Somebody wrote...

I dont remember this scene being in the game.

wasn't  this supposed to be included in the very first dialogue with Merrill when you first went to the mountain place where Dalish lived?

Modifié par Marcin R, 22 avril 2011 - 02:49 .

[halokitty]

Somebody wrote...

I dont remember this scene being in the game.

I really love the scenes where she babbles and then chastises herself.  It's adorable! 

[bleetman]

Heh. That particular instance of Merrill telling herself to shut up comes off as a little... schizophrenic to me.

(Damn you people and your ability to upload character profiles/custom pictures. Boo! Hiss!)

[halokitty]

bleetman wrote...

Heh. That particular instance of Merrill telling herself to shut up comes off as a little... schizophrenic to me.

Adorable and a little bit crazy.