17177 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

tmp7704 wrote...

Esbatty wrote...

No I distinctly remember putting about 300 hundred arrows into the Varterral whilst simulatenously chanting "ItsNotASpider" repeatedly

i do feel for the poor arachnophobic people who try to play this game, i really do.

Quite. I mean, look at that thing. A product of foul magics outside of the Maker's benediction, if ever I saw one.

I was a melee rogue until the Deep Roads. No longer.

[Giggles_Manically]

I just followed the teaching's of Shale Tzu.

SQUUUIIIISSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hoorayforicecream]

jlb524 wrote...

But, isn't that just being realistic?  I never got the impression that she lost confidence in dealing with the ole demon...Merrill is aware that it's dangerous...like all Fade spirits.  

I guess my point is...Merrill knows she could die from her attempts to fix the eluvian (and I would say her expectations are realistic here)...she's 110% aware of this.  But, she's willing to do it.   This is what she wants.  So, I basically disagree with the idea that she doesn't know what she's doing/doesn't know the risks involved b/c she does.

The reason my Hawke went rivalry with Merrill is simple. Merrill doesn't value her own life compared to the eluvian and such. As you said, she knows full well she could die from it, and that's what she wants. But at the same time, she's being selfish and undervaluing her own life. Marethari, Hawke, Varric and Isabela all care about her a great deal, and don't want to see her die. They aren't willing to (or can't) outright force her to stop, but they see Merrill on what appears to be a self-destructive path (whether it actually is or not is anybody's guess, the game never outright tells or shows us). Merrill knows the risks involved - she just doesn't care enough about her friends' feelings to see how much she means to them, and is willing to sacrifice whatever else she could possibly accomplish in her entire lifetime for the potential of the eluvian.

To my Hawke, that seemed short-sighted. To her, there just isn't enough information to make the gamble worth it. Merrill doesn't seem to care about how much her death would hurt others, or how much others care for her, and is only concerned for restoring the eluvian - something that may or may not actually help (another thing nobody really knows). My Hawke didn't see that as a worthwhile thing to gamble someone's life on (let alone the life of a dear friend), and thus made Merrill disagree.

[Esbatty]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Well, are you man or a woman? Your character, I mean, not YOU

As a Lady Hawke, it's less worshipfulness and more admiration.

She literally says she worships Lady Hawke.

Okay, well, if you want to take it literally.

Also, I forgot about that line. DAII provides a good many blanks in the PC's relationships with her friends, and I've done more than my share of filling in those blanks :-/

Giggity! 

[Stealthy Giraffe]

Master Shiori wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think the problem is that we don't really know the full potential of the mirror or what it could do. But when you are talking about a group of people that have little to nothing left of there past, every little bit is important even if it is a little bit.

Apsolutely. But not knowing about ones past brings it's own dangers. Is every bit of knowledge you recover beneficial? Could it be that some of that knowledge was seen as a mistake even by ancient elves and that they thought it best be forgotten?
Considering how few elves are left and how much they've forgotten, I think it's best not to rush in blindly and hope that everything will turn out well.

Someone has to take that first step to discover whether something is beneficial or not. Merrill is willing to take that step, regardless of the risks. If there is even the slightest chance that fixing the Eluvian could benefit her people, she'll do it. I'm not sure what the alternative is. Hope that something better/less risky is waiting round the corner to be discovered? What if it's not?

[Wulfram]

I don't really have a problem with the mirror, and don't really see feels there's enough reason to keep the arulin'holm from Merrill.

But I do have a problem with blood magic, and Merrill's writer seems quite insistent on these forums that the Friendship path means you're supporting Merrill's blood magic. So I end up feeling rather conflicted

[Giggles_Manically]

See I dont take issue with blood magic TBH.

Its just another type of magic.
There are people in the Star Wars universe for example who call on the Dark side without going all evul.

I do take issue with the mirror since it IS an obsession.

[Thor Rand Al]

I found the rivalmance with Merrill more touching especially when she comes to Hawke after kicking him out of her house lol.  She's so hell bent on dying, afraid of hurting and messing up Hawke and anyone around him.  More bittersweet to me, had more feeling basically.

[bleetman]

I'd enjoy that scene far more if Hawke hadn't just run a gauntlet of dog lords and invisible sisters trying to get back to the mansion. Isabela pitched in after she'd made it to the Hanged Man at least, but I still went through more potions than I'd care to think about.

I mean, I could've just turned around, walked into Merrill's hovel and ported to the mansion, but shut up I'm role playing here.

Modifié par bleetman, 05 juin 2011 - 07:20 .

[Blackout62]

Friendmance. Why? Because my Hawke finds Merrill great to be with. He doesn't give a damn about the blood magic, low value of self, defying the will of the Dalish, etc. Once again why? Because he's a charismatic yet rather terrible person.

That being said I've a personal preference for the rivalmance, it just doesn't fit my Hawke at all.

[Master Shiori]

Stealthy Giraffe wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I think the problem is that we don't really know the full potential of the mirror or what it could do. But when you are talking about a group of people that have little to nothing left of there past, every little bit is important even if it is a little bit.

Apsolutely. But not knowing about ones past brings it's own dangers. Is every bit of knowledge you recover beneficial? Could it be that some of that knowledge was seen as a mistake even by ancient elves and that they thought it best be forgotten?
Considering how few elves are left and how much they've forgotten, I think it's best not to rush in blindly and hope that everything will turn out well.

Someone has to take that first step to discover whether something is beneficial or not. Merrill is willing to take that step, regardless of the risks. If there is even the slightest chance that fixing the Eluvian could benefit her people, she'll do it. I'm not sure what the alternative is. Hope that something better/less risky is waiting round the corner to be discovered? What if it's not?

But she's taking that step based purely on the word of a demon, a creature that cares nothing for mortals other than as potential hosts. Merrill is being manipulated and the end result would not have benefited her people or even Merrill herself. Quite the contrary.

If she, like Morrigan, was acting based on information from a book or some other non demonic source, then I would support her without question. As it is she's following whatever road the pride demon has laid out for her on an offchance it may be telling the truth, which it most certainly isn't.

[Lenimph]

Personally after doing the rivalmance I much prefer the friendmance. I feel like the hawke belittles Merrill's intellegence in the rivalmance, and I can't stand it. That's just my personal opinion.

I believe the eluvian is hardly as dangerous as it's "made out to be"...

[Giggles_Manically]

Just a pic I liked from my canon game I have been replaying.

[PseudoEthnic]

Giggles_Manically wrote...


Just a pic I liked from my canon game I have been replaying.

I've yet to play a Warrior playthrough with the new item pack, but from the looks of it, the Legion Of The Dead armor came out nice.

[Northern Sun]

I view withholding the carving tool as somewhat similar to withholding a pack of cigarettes. "No, I'm not withholding it because I hate you. I care about you, and I don't want you getting lung/demon cancer."

[Giggles_Manically]

PseudoEthnic wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

-sad snip-
Just a pic I liked from my canon game I have been replaying.

I've yet to play a Warrior playthrough with the new item pack, but from the looks of it, the Legion Of The Dead armor came out nice.

I dont like the helmet though.
Also there is ONCE again a lack on any good one handed weapons.

I am loving playing my hardass Hawke though.

[Esbatty]

Northern Sun wrote...

I view withholding the carving tool as somewhat similar to withholding a pack of cigarettes. "No, I'm not withholding it because I hate you. I care about you, and I don't want you getting lung/demon cancer."

Now I'm comparing Anders to House and trying to find comparable dialogue about demons and Merrill.

[LobselVith8]

Master Shiori wrote...

But she's taking that step based purely on the word of a demon, a creature that cares nothing for mortals other than as potential hosts. Merrill is being manipulated and the end result would not have benefited her people or even Merrill herself. Quite the contrary.

Actually, Gaider addressed that Merrill was going by lore she gathered and information that she had extrapolated from the shard she had. What she learned from Audacity was blood magic because she didn't have a sufficient amount of lyrium to cleanse the shard.

Master Shiori wrote...

If she, like Morrigan, was acting based on information from a book or some other non demonic source, then I would support her without question.

Merrill learned blood magic from Audacity, but she was building an Eluvian based on the information that she gathered herself.

[Master Shiori]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

But she's taking that step based purely on the word of a demon, a creature that cares nothing for mortals other than as potential hosts. Merrill is being manipulated and the end result would not have benefited her people or even Merrill herself. Quite the contrary.

Actually, Gaider addressed that Merrill was going by lore she gathered and information that she had extrapolated from the shard she had. What she learned from Audacity was blood magic because she didn't have a sufficient amount of lyrium to cleanse the shard.

Master Shiori wrote...

If she, like Morrigan, was acting based on information from a book or some other non demonic source, then I would support her without question.

Merrill learned blood magic from Audacity, but she was building an Eluvian based on the information that she gathered herself.

Alright then.

Since that information wasn't available ingame I obviously didn't know about it.

Not that it makes much difference for me since whether I pursue friendship or rivalry with Merrill depends on what kind of Hawke I'm playing.

[Giggles_Manically]

I was okay with the friendmance till the end.

"Now they will never let me help them!"
WELL DUH!

We just killed their keeper because she took the demon bullet for yah honey.
Its ending just soured me to it.

[TheAwesomologist]

There are certainly issues with Merrill's character, but you can say the same for each and every companion, some more so than others. I tend to lean Friendship/-mance simply because I pay attention (and my first Hawke was a mage).
1) Merrill's deal with the demon is only for blood magic. Her research seems to have lead to her own discoveries. I'm sure the demon told her all sorts of stuff that the eluvian can do, but we never get that scene. What we do know is that Merrill is able to turn a single shard (or a few shards, we're never certain as to how much of the old mirror she actually has) from Act 1 into a full mirror by Act 2. As far as we know she isn't consorting with demons to gain this information.
2) The Arulin'Holm is just a tool to fix the mirror. Is Merrill obsessed? Yes. Has she helped Hawke without question up to this point? Yes. Why should I deny her help? All she wants Hawke to do is help get a carving knife, where as Hawke routinely asks her to expose herself as an apostate in Kirkwall by blasting spells in the middle of the streets.
3) The only real quest to take issue with is "A New Path" the Act 3 quest. Here she specifically states that she is going to seek out a demon's help. I just realized I've never bothered to see what happens if you decide to not help her with this quest. Are there any consequences? (Besides loss of XP and items.) I always look at this quest as trying to look out for her no matter what. She's helped Hawke face down hidden demons (hybris, xenebeck) why can't I help her in return? My biggest gripe with the quest is the dialog choices at hand either lead to the destruction of her clan or unfairly placing the blame on her (even though I said I'd take responsibility... wtf?).

I'm not saying that the rivalmance doesn't have its merits. I will admit, in game it's a much better romance/confrontation scene. Certainly anyone fearful of blood magic would be doing right in there eyes to try and persuade Merrill away from it. I know for me personally I have too much meta-game knowledge of blood magic and the eluvian to know that there's nothing inherently wrong with either one even if dangerous.

[RangerSG]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I was okay with the friendmance till the end.

"Now they will never let me help them!"
WELL DUH!

We just killed their keeper because she took the demon bullet for yah honey.
Its ending just soured me to it.

Yes, but would've Merrill taken that demon bullet if Hawke was there? Marethari was overprotective and fatalistic, like a mother who could never really let go.

Yes, she tells us what the demon's plan was. But she could never be sure that plan would succeed.

My Hawke mages typically don't see Blood Magic as 'evil.' They think it's more or less a collar put on mages by the Chantry (like the Circle itself) and mages who turn apostate abuse blood magic because when they're running, they decide they have nothing to lose and they've already cut the Chantry ties that were the limiting bond. A true mage knows his limits and doesn't need the Circle or Templars to enforce them.

Now my Hawke rogues and fighters would say that logic is a bunch of self-inflated hoo-haw.

[Malevolence65]

Is there a video yet for the Friendly Concern conversation about Merrill?

[Giggles_Manically]

Dont think so.

Heard that it is still broken.

[bleetman]

RangerSG wrote...

Yes, but would've Merrill taken that demon bullet if Hawke was there?

I don't expect many people are willingly possessed by demons. It still happens.

In a toss up between the twenty-something mage and the several-thousand-year-old pride demon, I don't have a hard time deciding who's going to be better at manipulating who.