17177 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

It was coincidence. I do the stuff you listed but it's usually not enough.

I talked to Thrask this time instead of Vincento during the 'Wayward Son' quest and I believe that gives you more friendship too. I just did different stuff and it worked out.

http://cloud.steampo...9BFE6E83985D21/

*Merrill contemplates the nature of cheese wheels*

[Mr.House]

I wonder what Merrills favorite cheese is?

[TEWR]

Monterey Pepper Jack, Provolone, American, Swiss, Cheddar, and many more.

Don't ask me how she likes American cheese or Swiss cheese.

Oh okay, since you asked nicely. Merrill's Eluvian links to Earth. Merrill is among us! Rejoice!

[Gervaise]

I know i'm only a recent Merrill convert (and that as a result of a bug) but it seems to me that with both Merrill and Anders you get a better insight into what is going on in their minds on a rival path. Certainly with Merrill I've only got true insight as a result of doing the accidental rival romance. In fact I feel I have been a better friend to her by thwarting her attempts at restoring the mirror and opposing blood magic at every turn, than if I had approved (even if only tacitly by not taking her on quests where the matter would crop up). May be I have misunderstood her words, but I took it as meaning she realises that she shouldn't have consulted the demon or used her magic in that way, that she thought she was beyond redemption as a result and Hawke has been able to convince her that she isn't and that she is worth saving, plus she isn't alone. (bear in mind she said this when we haven't gone back to Sundermount so the Keeper isn't dead and the clan haven't irrovocably rejected her)

However, now I am converted, if I followed Knight of Dane's advice, would I really find it any better on the friendship path? Since I assume that this would involve giving into what she wants to do and the Keeper and possibly the clan would end up dead as a result and thus Merrill would feel far worse.

[Knight of Dane]

Well, you can still be against blood magic in general, you can perfectly max her friendship before the two of you ever get to talk about that.

The clan only dies if Hawke defends Merrill, Hawke doesn't have to if she's against BM and Merrill will still be friend.
Though she will assume that Hawke supports everything she does and even if you refuse her the eluvian she will still treat it as if you gave it to her anyway.

Mary Kirby said herself that her friendship/rival paths mean that you either support her or do not, Hawke and Merrill respecting each others as companions is pretty much canon in either case.

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Merrill's Eluvian links to Earth. Merrill is among us! Rejoice!

She never fixed it! 

Gervaise wrote...
May be I have misunderstood her words, but I took it as meaning she realises that she shouldn't have consulted the
demon or used her magic in that way, that she thought she was beyond redemption as a result and Hawke has been able to convince her that she isn't and that she is worth saving, plus she isn't alone. (bear in mind she said this when we haven't gone back to Sundermount so the Keeper isn't dead and the clan haven't irrovocably rejected her)

I interpret the rival dialog a bit differently.  I don't think she agrees (at that time) that she never should have learned blood magic or thinks she even needs to be redeemed.  She didn't learn blood magic for power and she did nothing 'evil' with it...it was just a tool needed in her project.  She does finally come to realize that Hawke with-held the knife to protect her...she just doesn't want her to bother trying to 'save' her because she doesn't want it...Merrill really really wants to fix the mirror and things knows might get dangerous and doesn't want Hawke to interfere and possibly get hurt..

I haven't played this path in a long long time so I might be off.

Modifié par jlb524, 26 octobre 2011 - 04:44 .

[Zjarcal]

OMG, this is pretty!



http://smailika07.de...rrill-265406795

[mesmerizedish]

Oh that's great!

[jlb524]

OMG yes it is!

[Mr.House]

Zjarcal wrote...

OMG, this is pretty!



http://smailika07.de...rrill-265406795

[bleetman]

Zjarcal wrote...

OMG, this is pretty!

*snip*

http://smailika07.de...rrill-265406795

That's beautifully done.

[Knight of Dane]

Finally a piece worthy of Merrill!

And thanks for it not including that horrifying romance armor, i lub her original outfit to bitsies.

[TEWR]

Gervaise wrote...


However, now I am converted, if I followed Knight of Dane's advice, would I really find it any better on the friendship path? Since I assume that this would involve giving into what she wants to do and the Keeper and possibly the clan would end up dead as a result and thus Merrill would feel far worse.

It depends on how you look at not only Merrill's actions, but Marethari's as well. You have to also examine the dialogue very closely to really understand everything that goes on.

In my mind, Marethari was and always will be wrong. Her actions never helped anything and I hate her with a passion.

Example 1: Merrill invoked an Elven right with Marethari that she would perform a task to receive the Arulin'holm. Marethari then tasked her with "killing" the Varterral. The two Elves then agreed to the terms that if the Varterral was slain, Marethari would give Merrill the tool.

Hawke is only a witness to this agreement. He is not the one who is supposed to receive the tool as the tool belongs to everyone among the People (the Dalish). Hawke is a human and he has no knowledge about Elven culture.

When the Varterral is slain, Marethari reneges on her deal and hands Hawke -- the human -- the tool that belongs to the Elves. This shows to me that Marethari cannot keep her word and cannot be trusted.

Example 2: When Merrill asks Keeper Marethari about Pol and why he fled, she says that the clan fears Merrill will bring back the Taint. When Merrill asks where they even got such a foolish idea, Marethari says that she warned the clan.

However, this claim is not only wrong but a case of slander and calumny and has Marethari instigating irrational fear amongst the clan. Merrill has gone 3-4 years without being tainted. This is something that Anders would've been able to sense, especially if you bring him to Merrill's house when she asks you to join her for her Act 2 quest. Anders and even Duncan could sense the taint within Bethany/Carver and Mahariel respectively. Because Anders says nothing, it's evident that Merrill isn't tainted and the shard is cleansed.

And if you want to use knowledge from the Warden's experiences in DAO: WH, the elves in the Elven Ruins were tainted by the remaining shards. This happened 2.5 years after the Eluvian was found. Merrill not only goes 3-4 years without being tainted when the player finds out about Marethari's despicable deeds, but she goes another 3 years without being tainted. Again, Anders makes no comment.

Not only that, but Merrill says to Marethari that they've been over this many times, which means that she told Marethari the Eluvian shard was cleansed. So it's obviously not a threat. But Marethari acts like a fool by making the clan fear Merrill and then having the sheer, unmitigated audacity to ask Merrill to return to the clan. To the clan that now fears her to the point that they'd rather take their chances with a crazed Varterral than be around her!

And additionally, if Merrill was tainted ceasing contact with the shard wouldn't keep the taint from spreading within her body. She would become a Ghoul and would seek out the Darkspawn (or alternatively the Darkspawn would seek her out). Either way, she would turn into a broodmother.

And considering Hespith and Laryn left on an expedition 2 years prior to the events of Origins, it takes 2 years maximum for a woman to become a broodmother.

We also know that Ghouls cannot spread the taint. It is something they are stuck with, but do not spread to other people.

So, Marethari instilled fear into the clan when none was necessary and for that I cannot side with her because now the clan sees Merrill as the cause for all their troubles when that just isn't true. Marethari is the cause for all of their troubles. The clan is just seeking to use Merrill as a scapegoat for anything that goes wrong because of their Elven superiority complex.

That's why all of my Hawkes pursue a friendship with her -- though they dont' immediately know these things. It's more that Hawke just wants to be friends with everyone and then sees Marethari as becoming increasingly in the wrong -- and that's why they always tell her clan that they will make sure Merrill harms no one else.

My Hawkes don't believe that. They're just using the fear and want for a scapegoat that is present within the clan to get them to leave safely.

My Hawkes know Merrill is right, and will defend her when the clan isn't anywhere near her. My Hawkes don't want to kill the clan which may hurt Merrill even more than she already is hurt by Marethari's stupidity.

Also, I've only done one playthrough where I didn't romance Merrill, and that was for the only FemHawke I ever finished. She romanced Anders on a Rivalry path, though she was also pro-mage so I can't do a pro-mage Hawke that rivals Anders ever again. It just fails on a spectacular level.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 octobre 2011 - 11:29 .

[jlb524]

I wouldn't say the clan's 'Elven superiority complex' is the reason Merrill is the scapegoat. I'd put most of the blame on Marethari there.

RE: Killing the clan. When I typically RP that part, my Hawke figures the clan wants to kill Merrill and that there's no chance of reasoning with them and Hawke herself isn't all that level-headed (just wanting to get out with Merrill and keep her safe). I typically take the middle dialog option (which leads to fighting).

I've romanced Merrill 9 times on the friend path and once on rival (for science!) and the entire playthrough I had a hard time justifying to myself why Hawke did what she did in regards to Merrill.  Especially concerning the tool.   Why trust Marethari over Merrill?  I guess, 'cuz blood magic' so I RP'd the Hawke as not trusting blood mages on principle or something...blech.

Modifié par jlb524, 27 octobre 2011 - 12:07 .

[TEWR]

jlb524 wrote...

I wouldn't say the clan's 'Elven superiority complex' is the reason Merrill is the scapegoat. I'd put most of the blame on Marethari there.

I blame Marethari mostly too, but I'd say the Elven superiority complex certainly didn't help things any.

RE: Killing the clan. When I typically RP that part, my Hawke figures the clan wants to kill Merrill and that there's no chance of reasoning with them and Hawke herself isn't all that level-headed (just wanting to get out with Merrill and keep her safe). I typically take the middle dialog option (which leads to fighting).

Despite me hating their actions, I do feel sorry for them since Marethari was the reason why they acted like they did primarily.

I'm actually thinking Bioware's going to always give the player to kill off a Dalish clan somehow in the games. In Origins it was death by Werewolves, and in DAII it was death by Hawke.

Next up, in DAIII! Death by Whales!

I've romanced Merrill 9 times on the friend path and once on rival (for science!) and the entire playthrough I had a hard time justifying to myself why Hawke did what she did in regards to Merrill.  Especially concerning the tool.   Why trust Marethari over Merrill?  I guess, 'cuz blood magic' so I RP'd the Hawke as not trusting blood mages on principle or something...blech.

I probably wouldn't be able to do it. I'd cry and cry.

I also can't rival Fenris anymore. Friendship to me makes him begin to move past his hatred of mages and magic a little bit, whereas Rivalry keeps him stuck in the past (not by Hawke's choice mind you, but that's how it seemed to me).

To me, friendship helps him move on whereas Rivalry leaves him embittered, resentful, and left as a man who remembers what he went through because he can never move on.

....though this isn't the Fenris thread, so meh.


Also, I'm trying to find the perfect song by Charon for Merrill. So far I have it narrowed down to Sorrowbringer and Deepest Scar.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 octobre 2011 - 12:11 .

[Knight of Dane]

I love the sound of this.

"It'll be all right, I'm here - Always."

[Zjarcal]

jlb524 wrote...

RE: Killing the clan. When I typically RP that part, my Hawke figures the clan wants to kill Merrill and that there's no chance of reasoning with them and Hawke herself isn't all that level-headed (just wanting to get out with Merrill and keep her safe). I typically take the middle dialog option (which leads to fighting).

Yeah, I also play that part in a way where I'm not expecting for there to be a peaceful outcome. It's clear the clan is out for her blood and I just can't RP anything other than my Hawke taking a defensive stance over her lover, so yeah... goodbye clan.

I've romanced Merrill 9 times on the friend path and once on rival (for science!) and the entire playthrough I had a hard time justifying to myself why Hawke did what she did in regards to Merrill.  Especially concerning the tool.   Why trust Marethari over Merrill?  I guess, 'cuz blood magic' so I RP'd the Hawke as not trusting blood mages on principle or something...blech.

I'm doing my first rival run right now and I'm already having trouble with it. I'm also using the "not trusting blood magic" angle, but I'm not entirely satisfied with how it's playing. It's really hard to take the "blood magic is evil!" stance for me, blegh!

Either way, I just want to see the rival path at least once but no way it'll be the case for my canon.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 27 octobre 2011 - 12:39 .

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Despite me hating their actions, I do feel sorry for them since Marethari was the reason why they acted like they did primarily.

I feel sorry for them as well, but when you step out of the cave and are met by a heavily armed group of the clan's best hunters...it doesn't bode well.

Now I wonder if they accompanied Marethari up the mountain.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Next up, in DAIII! Death by Whales!

Or cheese wheels.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I also can't rival Fenris anymore. Friendship to me makes him begin to move past his hatred of mages and magic a little bit, whereas Rivalry keeps him stuck in the past (not by Hawke's choice mind you, but that's how it seemed to me).

I have difficulty getting Friendship with him.

Zjarcal wrote...
Yeah, I also play that part in a way where I'm not expecting for there to be a peaceful outcome. It's clear the clan is out for her blood and I just can't RP anything other than my Hawke taking a defensive stance over her lover, so yeah... goodbye clan.

Yeah, especially after killing their demon-possessed Keeper I think Hawke would be in 'fight or flight' mode...adrenaline pumping hard.

Modifié par jlb524, 27 octobre 2011 - 12:53 .

[TEWR]

jlb524 wrote...


I feel sorry for them as well, but when you step out of the cave and are met by a heavily armed group of the clan's best hunters...it doesn't bode well.

Now I wonder if they accompanied Marethari up the mountain.

True. A Hawke has to know what the clan is feeling to a tee to get out of there without any more bloodshed.

I doubt they went with Marethari up the hill. They seemed to not know anything. Maybe tailed her though. It's my belief that she was possessed around the time Merrill talks to Hawke and begins the quest A New Path.

She says that Audacity hasn't been responding back to her, and if one doesn't talk to Marethari she still becomes possessed.

Or cheese wheels.

I never saw that in MotA sadly. Or understood what it was referencing if anything or if it was just supposed to be a very funny thing people see.

I have difficulty getting Friendship with him.

I got him to be like +50 in Act 1 alone

http://dragonage.wik...Fenris/Approval

You just have to be primarily kind to him and understanding, and anti-slavery. Just don't bring him anywhere that allows for pro-mage options if you're being pro-mage.

Though I bring him to the Gallows and then say things he likes because they're just words.

I love maxing Merrill's friendship in Act 1 though. That's always fun.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 octobre 2011 - 01:16 .

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She says that Audacity hasn't been responding back to her, and if one doesn't talk to Marethari she still becomes possessed.

I never understood how Audacity could respond to Merrill if it was sundered from the Fade.

Though I tend to agree that Marethari had been possessed for some time.  I just don't see her hurrying up the mountain to beat Hawke/Merrill, speaking with Audacity in order to learn its plan, and then deciding right then and there to allow it to possess her.  If this were the case, I'm not sure why she wouldn't just wait for Merrill and Hawke and then tell them the demon's plans.  

I'd guess it was sometime between Act 2/3.  I find it curious Marethari even talked to the demon at all. 

[Mr.House]

I always say the she was possessed a little bit before Act 3 started. Makes the most sense and goes with the whole "I can no longer hold him, so kill him now."

*goes back to his lurker cave*

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

She says that Audacity hasn't been responding back to her, and if one doesn't talk to Marethari she still becomes possessed.

I never understood how Audacity could respond to Merrill if it was sundered from the Fade.

Though I tend to agree that Marethari had been possessed for some time.  I just don't see her hurrying up the mountain to beat Hawke/Merrill, speaking with Audacity in order to learn its plan, and then deciding right then and there to allow it to possess her.  If this were the case, I'm not sure why she wouldn't just wait for Merrill and Hawke and then tell them the demon's plans.  

I'd guess it was sometime between Act 2/3.  I find it curious Marethari even talked to the demon at all. 

She already talked to him once, her talknig to him again is not strange, more so if his plan all along was really to possess her, she told her what she feared, he used her fear to weaken her to a state where she decided to take him inside her but held him at bay till she could tell Merrill. Now was she right? We will never know, but we have alot of proof that it was her the demon wanted the whole time and did not care for Merrill at all, Merrill and Hawke where witness, thus he tried to kill them, and failed. The demon fell to his own pride.


And goddamit, thanks alot for getting me out of my lurk cave!

Modifié par Mr.House, 28 octobre 2011 - 01:35 .

[jlb524]

Mr.House wrote...

She already talked to him once, her talknig to him again is not strange, more so if his plan all along was really to possess her, she told her what she feared, he used her fear to weaken her to a state where she decided to take him inside her but held him at bay till she could tell Merrill.

It is a bit strange when she was so anti "talking to the demon" before. She (and Merrill) went to investigate once, yes, but Marethari then decided never to go again and told Merrill to do the same.  I'm just wondering why she changed her mind.

Mr.House wrote...

Now was she right? We will never know, but we have alot of proof that it was her the demon wanted the whole time and did not care for Merrill at all, Merrill and Hawke where witness, thus he tried to kill them, and failed. The demon fell to his own pride.

That's probably true.

Mr.House wrote...

And goddamit, thanks alot for getting me out of my lurk cave!

You post here often for a 'lurker' 

Modifié par jlb524, 28 octobre 2011 - 01:50 .

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

It is a bit strange when she was so anti "talking to the demon" before. She (and Merrill) went to investigate once, yes, but Marethari then decided never to go again and told Merrill to do the same.  I'm just wondering why she changed her mind.

It's possible the demon might have talked to her in a way, or even gave her a vision, something after the events in act 2 that made her fear more. The Keeper always feared the Demon had darker motives, her love and pride took over logical thinking. She should have thought over what the demon told her, thought if this was true or this was all a plan. I won't protect the Keeper here, she did make a stupid decision, but alas that's what happens when you care and love someone too much. ometimes you make stupid decisions.

Of course this is my opinion.

Modifié par Mr.House, 28 octobre 2011 - 02:06 .