17177 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hah.

Oh, s/he have done that DID hurt Merrill, but never anything TO hurt Merrill. There is a difference. A Hawke who doesn't want to see Merrill eaten by demons or infected with the blight is trying to protect her. So Merrill doesn't get the knife. A Hawke who likes to see Merrill cry is overjoyed when a opportunity comes to hurt her. So Merrill doesn't get the knife. In addition, the latter Merrill gets treated like dirt for most of the game and is probably killed by Hawke at the end of the game. The first Merrill is proud to call Hawke her friend/lover at the final battle in the Gallows.

[Xilizhra]

I wouldn't say "proud." I admit, I may have overreacted some, but I'm very, very bad at being equivocal when it comes to rivalmancing Merrill. I cannot see it as anything less than emotional abuse.

[Quething]

Recall, however, that not everyone romances her.

[jlb524]

GodWood wrote...
Oh good.
So sick of Bioware using that trope.

I personally head canon that her and Tamlen were lovers. The fact that her original reason for playing with the 'evil death mirror' and facing the scrutiny of her clan and keeper was to simply bring back Tamlen leads me to believe there's enough room to wiggle a romance in.

Yeah, I have something going on between her and my Mahariel Warden (though, my Warden's just free with her affections in general and it wasn't serious on her end).

Merrill's past sexual history is a blank slate.  She does seem to associate feelings with sex though so her history isn't going to be as colorful as Isabela's.

soccerchick wrote...

Wait, just remembered, the Dalish take sex very seriously. Pretty much the opposite of Isabela. So, yeah, it's a pretty safe bet to assume she's a virgin. Like, 95% chance, to my math-challenged mind.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]

Why would you say they take it seriously?

Modifié par jlb524, 07 novembre 2011 - 04:25 .

[Abispa]

The Rivalry, and the Friendship, of Merrill isn't perfect. It's a matter of how you role play it as I said in my previous post. Yes, you can be an ass, or you can be tough for a friend/lover you feel has a problem. The same way someone can role play a friendship where Hawke is just trying to get into her pants, and that's how it struck me. Or you could be a mage-sympathetic Hawke who really wants to help his/her friend salvage an ancient artifact.

[GodWood]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Merrill frequently tells Hawke that he's the only real friend she's ever had. And she seems to take sex pretty seriously. So I doubt she was banging Tamlen.

Never said that to my Hawke. (or at least I don't recall her doing so)

She and Tamlen were child hood friends but eventually this friendship turned into something more.
Unfortunately, due to events completely out of her control her sweetheart was taken away. Desperate she sought to bring him back by any means necessary but eventually it became evident that he was gone for good. Not wanting his death to be in vain she decided to continue restoring the abomination that took him in attempt to bring some good out of it.

That's my headcanon and I'm sticking with it.

[bleetman]

Merrill seems to take sex seriously, but I'm not sure I'd say the Dalish as a whole do. Cammen and Gheyna didn't exactly take a lot of convincing, for example. That, and Radha's flirtations to Pol during Act one.

Well, perhaps 'flirtations' isn't the right word. She's not flirting so much as suggesting they go off somewhere to ****.

Modifié par bleetman, 07 novembre 2011 - 04:36 .

[Abispa]

Xilizhra wrote...

I wouldn't say "proud." I admit, I may have overreacted some, but I'm very, very bad at being equivocal when it comes to rivalmancing Merrill. I cannot see it as anything less than emotional abuse.

Part of the reason, I think is that Hawke never has a chance to encourage her to be more social until near the end of the game when you can suggest she help the alienage. I would have loved a chance for a "Long Road" style Merrill mission where you try to help her make friends in the alienage and have her teach what she DOES know to the elves around her.

But no, friendship or rivalry, Merrill is seen in the bar with Isabela or standing around in her hovel when she's not with Hawke.

[Quething]

Abispa wrote...

The Rivalry, and the Friendship, of Merrill isn't perfect. It's a matter of how you role play it as I said in my previous post.

I do find both paths frustrating because the whole thing, all the major decisions, are about the mirror, which the majority of my Hawkes don't give two tugs about either way. But there are so many other things tied up in it that they do care about - blood magic, or dealing with demons, or her split from her clan - and you can't actually engage her on any of them except through the venue of the mirror. Main!Hawke would never agree with her that she knows better than Marethari and her whole clan is a bunch of idiots. But main!Hawke would also never deny her the arulin'holm. The game forces her to do one or the other.

All the Friend/Rival scales have that issue to some degree, but I think Merrill's is second only to Anders in how much it frustrates me and interferes with my attempts at consistent roleplaying.

[jlb524]

bleetman wrote...

Merrill seems to take sex seriously, but I'm not sure I'd say the Dalish as a whole do. Cammen and Gheyna didn't exactly take a lot of convincing, for example. That, and Radha's flirtations to Pol during Act one.

Well, perhaps 'flirtations' isn't the right word. She's not flirting so much as suggesting they go off somewhere to ****.

Well, the Dalish are communal and so familiar with each other so...yeah.    

I do agree that Merrill takes sex seriously, but that doesn't mean she always did (when younger) nor does it mean she's necessarily a virgin.  In my roleplay, she did have feelings for my Dalish Warden so it was serious for her...my Mahariel was a player, though.  A dirty rotten player.

Cthulhu42 wrote...
Well, in my headcanon Merrill's a virgin until Hawke. I suppose our playthroughs occur in alternate universes anyway though, so we can both be right.

Yes, your own headcanon is the only one that matters.  All others are inferior!  That's what I believe, at least.

Modifié par jlb524, 07 novembre 2011 - 04:41 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

EDIT: This post has severely confused me, so **** it.

Modifié par soccerchick, 07 novembre 2011 - 04:44 .

[GodWood]

Cthulhu42 wrote...
I suppose our playthroughs occur in alternate universes anyway though, so we can both be right.

Hooray.

[ydaraishy]

jlb524 wrote...

Yes, your own headcanon is the only one that matters.  All others are inferior!  That's what I believe, at least.

More like non-existent for me. 

I don't really understand who this "male Hawke" and this "male Shepard" -- with turian air quotes -- are, that people keep talking about. Flights of fancy. I'm sure.

[Abispa]

jlb524 wrote...

Why would you say they take it seriously?

You get these observations on the Dalish when Isabela is a major character in a game.

[jlb524]

ydaraishy wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yes, your own headcanon is the only one that matters.  All others are inferior!  That's what I believe, at least.

More like non-existent for me. 

I don't really understand who this "male Hawke" and this "male Shepard" -- with turian air quotes -- are, that people keep talking about. Flights of fancy. I'm sure.

Well yeah, 'non-existent' is a better way to put it 

Abispa wrote...

You get these observations on the Dalish when Isabela is a major character in a game.

Oh, that reminds me....my Dalish Warden slept with Isabela too...dirty rotten player.

Modifié par jlb524, 07 novembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

ydaraishy wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yes, your own headcanon is the only one that matters.  All others are inferior!  That's what I believe, at least.

More like non-existent for me. 

I don't really understand who this "male Hawke" and this "male Shepard" -- with turian air quotes -- are, that people keep talking about. Flights of fancy. I'm sure.

For that matter, who are these "people" that the developers keep telling me about? I'm certain that ME and DA were made solely for me. It boggles my mind how many people know so much about a game designed for me!

[bleetman]

soccerchick wrote...

It boggles my mind how many people know so much about a game designed for me!

Hidden cameras, mostly.

Incidentally, is it ever specifically mentioned at what age Merrill left her native clan to join Marethari's? I only remember her saying it was "at a young age", which is about as vague as it gets.

Modifié par bleetman, 07 novembre 2011 - 04:53 .

[jlb524]

@bleetman

I think it was at age four.

[erilben]

bleetman wrote...

Merrill seems to take sex seriously, but I'm not sure I'd say the Dalish as a whole do. Cammen and Gheyna didn't exactly take a lot of convincing, for example. That, and Radha's flirtations to Pol during Act one.

The Warden's persuade skills can be a bit ridicules though. Cammen is shocked if you asks him if he had sex with or even kissed Gheyna. He says of course not because he's not even "bonded" yet, and he can't even understand why you would think otherwise. He will refuse to sleep with a female Warden if her persuade isn't high enough, and says that he won't have sex until he's bonded. If he is persuaded into doing it, the VO notes say Cammen is being talked into doing something "forbidden".

Modifié par erilben, 07 novembre 2011 - 05:17 .

[Ryzaki]

Yeah the warden's Persuade skill is matched only by a Jedi Mind trick.

[LobselVith8]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Merrill frequently tells Hawke that he's the only real friend she's ever had. And she seems to take sex pretty seriously. So I doubt she was banging Tamlen.

I thought it was nice that Hawke could be a genuine friend to Merrill. Given the way that Merrill reacted to Pol, I wondered if she had a similar friendship to Tamlen that she possibly did with Pol - the Dalish Origin doesn't really indicate that Merrill is close to anyone, and the events of Dragon Age 2 make it clear that everyone is willing to side with Keeper Marethari over Merrill. Maybe Hawke becomes the first person willing to side with Merrill over Marethari, and the first person who genuinely believes in her?

erilben wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Merrill seems to take sex seriously, but I'm not sure I'd say the Dalish as a whole do. Cammen and Gheyna didn't exactly take a lot of convincing, for example. That, and Radha's flirtations to Pol during Act one.

The Warden's persuade skills can be a bit ridicules though. Cammen is shocked if you asks him if he had sex with or even kissed Gheyna. He says of course not because he's not even "bonded" yet, and he can't even understand why you would think otherwise. He will refuse to sleep with a female Warden if her persuade isn't high enough, and says that he won't have sex until he's bonded. If he is persuaded into doing it, the VO notes say Cammen is being talked into doing something "forbidden".

It's no different than being able to convince the Master to kill himself in Fallout, with the sufficient skills, or backing down the antagonists at the end of New Vegas through dialogue. I don't see it being any different for the respective Warden who has the sufficient personality traits that make him (or her) capable of pulling off matters that other people may not be able to. I respect that The Warden can deal with certain situations with dialogue (and it's something I like about the Fallout games as well).

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Wait, just remembered, the Dalish take sex very seriously. Pretty much the opposite of Isabela. So, yeah, it's a pretty safe bet to assume she's a virgin. Like, 95% chance, to my math-challenged mind.[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]

Why would you say they take it seriously?

If I remember correctly, in Origin, there is no bonding unless a person proves they're a adult, and not a child. And when it comes to humans and elves, the Dalish don't like half breeds, or getting together with humans in general.

[jlb524]

TMA LIVE wrote...

If I remember correctly, in Origin, there is no bonding unless a person proves they're a adult, and not a child. And when it comes to humans and elves, the Dalish don't like half breeds, or getting together with humans in general.

Bonding =/= sex.

The Warden can even have 'just sex' with Cammen and whatsherface in Origins.

TOPPER

Modifié par jlb524, 07 novembre 2011 - 08:37 .