17176 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

FiliusMartis wrote...
The demon being sundered from the fade is not in the short story, but that certainly doesn't mean it isn't true since Marethari suggests it in her dialogue. However, a few very interesting things are in the story that haven't been brought up.

After re-reading it now...yeah...it's not stated specifically.  Marethari only mentions that the demon is trapped and won't pose a threat.

FiliusMartis wrote... 
First of all, I think it's worth noting that Audacity originally propositions Marethari and doesn't seem to talk to Merrill at all. I believe there is a comment about Audacity knowing Merrill couldn't resist and thus choosing her, but this suggests Marethari was its first choice.

Yeah...it offered her the visions of the empire first....though Merrill can still see those visions.

FiliusMartis wrote... 
However, far more interesting than this is the fact that when Audacity first reaches out to Merrill and Marethari via dreams they were struck with a "memory of terrible loneliness" so intense that it brought Marethari to tears. Also consider the codex "Demonic Possession" which directly states that the motivations of a pride demon remain unknown. I'm not suggesting Audacity was warm and fuzzy and just wanted to be friends, but after years of being trapped and alone, ruling a small clan of elves might have looked pretty good. Being a pariah who is also extremely lonely probably not so much. Of course, Merrill potentially has Hawke and all, but even if she doesn't, the demon's actions don't change.

It is a bit odd that a Pride demon would attempt to appeal to their sense of compassion.  Perhaps that's part of the reason Merrill visited it a second time...she could relate to its loneliness.  

[Abispa]

Of course, showing the Keeper the vision, yet still allowing her First to see it, could have just been a clever lure to get Merrill's attention. Like giving a child a sippie cup while all the older kids and adults at the table are drinking from glasses. The child wants to drink from the same glasses others are using even if the drink is the same.

I DO NOT think it was an accident that Merrill is shown being easy prey for pride demons. And I think the writers knew what they were doing when the made the demon's offer of "savior of the People; Scion of the Dalish" pull directly at Merrill's heart. I do NOT believe she desires power for the sake of being some queen, but more than saving her people, Merrill desperately wants to be THE ONE who saves them. And somehow the Mirror was supposed to do that.

I don't think that flaw/weakness diminishes her character. We are pretty much given the ability to role play a Hawke who desires to be THE ONE in his/her family and Kirkwall, and it's pretty much that Hawke that I roleplaying having a "friendship" romance with Merrill.

[jlb524]

Right, she does want to be the ONE. Makes sense considering she was shunned for most of her life by others in her clan. She doesn't know any other way of helping them besides finding and restoring some awesome ancient artifact (because magic/lore is her specialty).

[Abispa]

I don't know if she was SHUNNED by her clan before becoming a blood mage. To be honest I think much of her isolation is a combination of her position and her natural social awkwardness. Even if Hawke is her "friendship" lover she spends all of her free time in the Alienage away from people and in the limited interactions we see of her with Varric and Isabela, both of whom love her dearly, she is constantly looking down and away. That's one of the reasons I like the rivalry path so much. She makes eye contact, yells, and snaps at Hawke.

[TEWR]

She said she never really had friends amongst the clan. The only friend she ever had was Mahariel. I guess maybe Tamlen and Fenarel could be considered her friends by some people, but I'd just say they were friendly and not actual friends.

And she obviously has a few friends in the Alienage given how Nyssa knows who she is and is very friendly with her.

Granted, this becomes a tad contradicted if one tells her to help the Alienage. I'd say she's friends with a few people, but has otherwise been isolated.

[Abispa]

Nyssa runs the shop right outside her door, no matter how isolated she is Merrill was bound to know her. If Tamlen and Fenarel weren't her friends and/or lover, her obsession with the absence of these acquaintances would seem very sad and... slightly creepy.

[jlb524]

Okay, 'shunned' is a bad word...perhaps...'ignored'?

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
She said she never really had friends amongst the clan. The only friend she ever had was Mahariel. I guess maybe Tamlen and Fenarel could be considered her friends by some people, but I'd just say they were friendly and not actual friends.

Yeah...I think there were people she was friendly towards (and they were friendly with her) but they weren't 'friends'.  If Merrill had a bad day she wouldn't run off and tell them all about it...she'd keep it to herself.

Modifié par jlb524, 30 décembre 2011 - 10:28 .

[TEWR]

Abispa wrote...

Nyssa runs the shop right outside her door, no matter how isolated she is Merrill was bound to know her. If Tamlen and Fenarel weren't her friends and/or lover, her obsession with the absence of these acquaintances would seem very sad and... slightly creepy.

They may not be friends, but they're still her clan mates.

All for one and one for all.

There is nothing "creepy" about it. She grew up with them. She may not know them that well or consider them her friends, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't feel upset that Tamlen is gone.

If anything, she was the only one who didn't give up entirely on Tamlen. Even if she didn't consider him a friend, finding him and bringing him back would mean that the people that did care for him could have him among them again.

jlb524 wrote...

Yeah...I think there were people she was friendly towards (and they were friendly with her) but they weren't 'friends'.  If Merrill had a bad day she wouldn't run off and tell them all about it...she'd keep it to herself.

Nah, she'd run into Mahariel's arms. He'd/She'd hear her out, console her, and then they'd go "frolic" in the woods 

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 30 décembre 2011 - 10:51 .

[TEWR]

Also, it's not entirely Merrill's fault she doesn't know that many people in the Alienage. She may not have gotten to know them, but she was also ignored by them as well.

Since her arrival in Kirkwall's elven alienage, Merrill has had difficulty adjusting. Her neighbors ignore her existence, and even the most determined socialites in Lowtown cross the street to avoid her.

[jlb524]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Nah, she'd run into Mahariel's arms. He'd/She'd hear her out, console her, and then they'd go "frolic" in the woods 

I read 'Mahariel' as 'Marethari' at first and I was like 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Since her arrival in Kirkwall's elven alienage, Merrill has had difficulty adjusting. Her neighbors ignore her existence, and even the most determined socialites in Lowtown cross the street to avoid her.

They didn't just ignore her but actively avoided her...I wonder why?

I guess she gave off too much of a 'weird' vibe.

Modifié par jlb524, 30 décembre 2011 - 11:01 .

[TEWR]

jlb524 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Nah, she'd run into Mahariel's arms. He'd/She'd hear her out, console her, and then they'd go "frolic" in the woods 

I read 'Mahariel' as 'Marethari' at first and I was like 

There are just way too many Elves that begin a name with the letter M. I swear, the number of times that I've started to type "Marethari" when I really meant to type "Merrill" is astounding

They didn't just ignore her but actively avoided her...I wonder why?

I guess she gave off too much of a 'weird' vibe.

I don't understand it either. She doesn't really give off a weird vibe imo.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 30 décembre 2011 - 11:05 .

[Abispa]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't understand it either. She doesn't really give off a weird vibe imo.

I was about to write, "Man, are you kidding me!?" But then I thought about the cast of DA2, including the NPCs, and realized that EVERYBODY gives off a weird vibe in DA2. She SHOULD blend right in. Oh well.

[ydaraishy]

If I were to guess: the Dalish love all elves, but the City elves probably find the Dalish too strange and different...

[Knight of Dane]

The rumors about Dalish in the alinages are "Savages"

[jlb524]

There was Arianni but besides her I guess Merrill was the only other Dalish Elf.

[TEWR]

There are Dalish Elves from the FedEx quests in the Alienage. At least 2 others I believe. They speak with the Welsh/Irish accent and have Vallaslin on their faces.

[jlb524]

I can't say I pay much attention to those quests XD

[Quething]

jlb524 wrote...

Quething wrote...
I wouldn't reccomend it, Qunari have resistance to electricity.

On Nightmare XD

On all levels of difficulty. They're immune on Nightmare, but they still take less damage on lower levels.

I think part of Merrill's problem in the Alienage is the "Dalish see other elves as flat-ears" thing. Merrill's not openly contemptuous the way a lot of the clan are, but I still get the sense, at least from her conversations with Fenris and Sebastian and the odd ambient comment, that she has no interest in Alienage culture and considers it inferior to Dalish culture. Makes me wonder how well Arianni actually ever integrated (especially since she seems happy enough to go back to the Dalish the minute she finds a clan that accepts her), and whether Feynriel's discontent was as much about being Dalish among city elves as being human among elves full stop.

Of course that doesn't explain Merrill's isolation among her own clan, but I think she may have exaggerated that; it's clear from her conversations with Hawke and Isabela that Merrill doesn't ever believe that people actually like her, or trust that they like her quite as much as they actually do, so I think it's perfectly plausible that she was reasonably well-liked before she started in on the blood magic. (It also makes her clan's reaction make a lot more sense if they actually care about her.)

Modifié par Quething, 31 décembre 2011 - 03:24 .

[jlb524]

Quething wrote...
Of course that doesn't explain Merrill's isolation among her own clan, but I think she may have exaggerated that; it's clear from her conversations with Hawke and Isabela that Merrill doesn't ever believe that people actually like her, or trust that they like her quite as much as they actually do, so I think it's perfectly plausible that she was reasonably well-liked before she started in on the blood magic. (It also makes her clan's reaction make a lot more sense if they actually care about her.)

I think she could have felt isolated in the clan for other reasons that aren't the same as her alienage isolation.

If I were to guess, I'd say most in her clan were apathetic to her and didn't really know her or socialize with her...but they still cared about her on some level since she was a member of the clan.  I don't think she was generally well-liked though.

I've always seen her as like a loner kid at school that simply liked to keep to herself so no one really bothered or made fun of...they just kind of left her be but were friendly with her.  So she wasn't disliked or shunned but she withdrew herself.   Perhaps she didn't feel she had anything in common with the others considering she was raised to be a Keeper since age 4 (I think)?

[TEWR]

Yea she was sent to be Marethari's First when she was 4 years old, not knowing her family all that well or even the clan she was born into.

I have to think that may have traumatized her a bit at first.

Study study study. Not much social experience with the outside world or even with her clan.

[Abispa]

I do find it interesting that we see "Dalish" elves in the Alienages, and it seem to me that the likely explanations are (not counting lazy developers): 1) Dalish outcasts, 2) Dalish traders/visitors similar to the "surface Dwarves" who don't mind dealing with outcasts and "Flat-Ears" but who may be looked down on by "proper" Dalish," and 3) rebellious Alienage Elves who are showing pride in their roots by adopting as many Dalish traits as they can to "stick it to the man." Being a Hispanic, I see the last example all the time in Latino and Black neighborhoods.

[jlb524]

Happy New Year to all the thread regulars!

Abispa wrote...
3) rebellious Alienage Elves who are showing pride in their roots by adopting as many Dalish traits as they can to "stick it to the man." Being a Hispanic, I see the last example all the time in Latino and Black neighborhoods.

That does make sense.

[TEWR]

happy belated new year to you too!

[thats1evildude]

Happy New Year!

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Since her arrival in Kirkwall's elven alienage, Merrill has had difficulty adjusting. Her neighbors ignore her existence, and even the most determined socialites in Lowtown cross the street to avoid her.

jlb524 wrote...

They didn't just ignore her but actively avoided her...I wonder why?

Several reasons I can think of:

1) Merrill's generally shy, softspoken nature
2) She's an apostate. People caught harbouring an apostate can be punished. And if the templar is particularly zealous, the definition of "harbouring" could be stretched to include anyone who had dealings with an apostate and didn't turn them in.
3) She associates with shemlen (ie. Hawke). While most elves have to work for the shems out of necessity, they don't generally be-friend them.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 03 janvier 2012 - 04:41 .

[jlb524]

I don't think Merrill uses magic in public...but associating with shemlens would do it (or dwarves since Varric visits too).