17176 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

City Elves and Casteless dwarves would have a lot more to gain in the Qun than any other citizen.

[Pride Demon]

dragonflight288 wrote...

City Elves and Casteless dwarves would have a lot more to gain in the Qun than any other citizen.

OT: Probably true, but it's a matter of perspective...
And it would depend on what role the Qun would decide better suits them...

I don't remember the exact wording, but unless I remember wrongly, this fact is touched upon by Sten in party banter...
In the Qun everyone lives to serve as it's apporpriate to their role, they accept converts to save them from the chaotic life of strife all "bas" lead, not to vindicate them of past wrongs, if the Qun decides their role is something particularly nasty their lot would not have improved much for an outside observer...

The casteless clearly gain more than the elves though, as whatever their role, being allowed to doing something is better than being allowed to do nothing...

[Abispa]

dragonflight288 wrote...

City Elves and Casteless dwarves would have a lot more to gain in the Qun than any other citizen.

Unless that city Elf was a mage, in which case it's like choosing between smelling a bucket of crap or eating it.

[Abispa]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Question: What is everyone's opinion on how the visual representation of Elven culture is handled? Recently I created a thread about it, and I want to know where you guys stand as well.

Personally, I feel that it is severely lacking, due to the Elves not showing any signs of reflecting on the four cultures they're supposed to be an amalgam of (Jewish people, Gypsies, Celtic tribes, Native American tribes).

I think the "new look" DA2 elves would have gone over A LOT better if Bioware had given them some TLC, especially the background Elves and, as you pointed out, giving the Alienage and Dalish Elves more distinctive looks.

I loved the new look on the major characters, though.

It really bugged me that the Alienage wasn't it's own section like DA:O, but at least they kept the tree.

And I HATED the generic dresses the females wore.

It occurred to me, watching Fenris move, that he walks like I'd expect a Dalish to walk, including Merrill. Like a wary creature from the wilds. The city Elves really shouldn't do so since that'd be another trait the humans would try to stamp out of them. If Merrill had started out like that, it would have made the chat between her an Isabela funnier AND make sense, since there's a good chance Isabela wasn't there when Hawke met Merrill and she already had that walk.

Modifié par Abispa, 25 janvier 2012 - 09:25 .

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

I think you focus too much on the whole Jewish/Gypsy/Celtic/Native American thing. I don't really want to see them wearing Stars of David and Sioux head dresses.

I'm not saying they need to wear Stars of David or headdresses. I want them to have a culture that seems like an appropriate amalgam of the four cultures. I want the player to see what they wear and what they do and think "This reminds me of this culture", but isn't a full blown identical thing.

The dalish could do with having their own clothing, particularly for their Firsts. And it would be nice if they settled on a look for the Aravels, rather than totally changing them between games.

Yes. This is what I want. But I want it to also carry a slight sense of the four cultures.

For city elves, being basically poor people of the host culture with a big tree and a few left over bits of elvish mixed in to the language makes sense.

Agreed. I was able to play an Elf in the CE Origin because it made sense there, but I didn't continue with the playthrough because I found the idea of the Dalish far more interesting.

[Abispa]

DA3 redesigns for the aravels:

[ydaraishy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I'm not saying they need to wear Stars of David or headdresses. I want them to have a culture that seems like an appropriate amalgam of the four cultures. I want the player to see what they wear and what they do and think "This reminds me of this culture", but isn't a full blown identical thing.

Why do they need to have a visual style based on ours? They should have a distinctive visual style, certainly, but their terrestrial analog is established by other factors other than how they look; they are oppressed in Thedosian society, ergo they are akin to oppressed cultures and races in terrestrial society as well.

[TEWR]

ydaraishy wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I'm not saying they need to wear Stars of David or headdresses. I want them to have a culture that seems like an appropriate amalgam of the four cultures. I want the player to see what they wear and what they do and think "This reminds me of this culture", but isn't a full blown identical thing.

Why do they need to have a visual style based on ours? They should have a distinctive visual style, certainly, but their terrestrial analog is established by other factors other than how they look; they are oppressed in Thedosian society, ergo they are akin to oppressed cultures and races in terrestrial society as well.

I want them to have a distinctly elven visual style, but with references to the cultures they're based off of. The amalgam I spoke of. They can be vague or they could not be vague, but I would like to see some references and for them to actually seem like they were based off of the culture.

They should look Elven in what they do and wear, but if you look hard enough you can see the similarities to the cultures they're based off of. Perhaps a style of armor bears a slight similarity to American Indian armor, or they do their own version of a spiritual dance -- assuming they do that -- that is based somewhat off of an American Indian dance.

Make sense?

I mean, there's nothing wrong with me wanting them to look and feel more Elven is there? Or for me to feel like Bioware is doing an Elven version of these cultures in their own way? 

I would gladly play an Elf in DA3 if they gave off a more Native American vibe to me, since it'd be nice to see that represented in an RPG.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 janvier 2012 - 08:58 .

[ydaraishy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


I want them to have a distinctly elven visual style, but with references to the cultures they're based off of. The amalgam I spoke of. They can be vague or they could not be vague, but I would like to see some references and for them to actually seem like they were based off of the culture.

They should look Elven in what they do and wear, but if you look hard enough you can see the similarities to the cultures they're based off of. Perhaps a style of armor bears a slight similarity to American Indian armor, or they do their own version of a spiritual dance -- assuming they do that -- that is based somewhat off of an American Indian dance.

Make sense?

I mean, there's nothing wrong with me wanting them to look and feel more Elven is there? Or for me to feel like Bioware is doing an Elven version of these cultures in their own way? 

I would gladly play an Elf in DA3 if they gave off a more Native American vibe to me, since it'd be nice to see that represented in an RPG.

_I_ mean, making them look like they're based on terrestrial culture is really a secondary concern to making us aware of their condition. They _should_ have distinctive visual styles, but they don't _have_ to look like styles that we may be familiar with to make the connotation that they are treated poorly just like those terrestrial cultures and races that you mentioned. Look at it this way: do the Qunari need to have a visual style like ****s or Soviets?

Thedas is really nothing like Earth, so its cultures don't really need to look like Earth cultures.

[jlb524]

I post pic

http://cloud.steampo...1E4260194A871E/

[Knight of Dane]

I applaud pic.



What outfit?
I can see the position is from Legacy.

[jlb524]

It's a retex modded outfit from MotA

http://cloud.steampo...709427C6A70A4F/

Um..I can't find the mod right now.

[Abispa]

jlb524 wrote...

It's a retex modded outfit from MotA

[Snip].

Um..I can't find the mod right now.

Good Lord! You didn't... give her SHOES, did you!? That would TOTALLY ruin my immersion!

[Abispa]

ydaraishy wrote...

_I_ mean, making them look like they're based on terrestrial culture is really a secondary concern to making us aware of their condition. They _should_ have distinctive visual styles, but they don't _have_ to look like styles that we may be familiar with to make the connotation that they are treated poorly just like those terrestrial cultures and races that you mentioned. Look at it this way: do the Qunari need to have a visual style like ****s or Soviets?

Thedas is really nothing like Earth, so its cultures don't really need to look like Earth cultures.

Maybe just to reflect their environment. Dalish are migratory and APPEAR to live predominatly on hunting, so their clothing should reflect it. Hunters should be dressed in clothes that blend into forest setting, the materials should be based on the supplies they had on hand. Aravals should look like they see a lot of travel. Decorations should be made predominately of wood. Merrill mentioned that the Dalish have hunting hounds and I'd like to see some. It could be a nice choice in DA3 between a Dalish hound and a Mabari.

[bleetman]

...The Orlesian Noble Hunter armour mod isn't on the nexus anymore?

*Backs up DA2 override folder furiously*

[Wulfram]

From a recent interview by David Gaider

Dalish tend to live longer. We're not talking into Tolkienesque numbers of years here. The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live

Do you think that would effect the relationship between Hawke and Merrill? I mean, if hanging around Hawke is shortening her lifespan, would they think she should leave?

Modifié par Wulfram, 01 février 2012 - 12:15 .

[bleetman]

I'd rather live ten years with a loving partner than a hundred years alone, personally. I'd place the quality of a life over the duration.

If we're talking from their perspectives, I'd have to wonder where Merrill would go. She apparently can't return to the Dalish and don't imagine she'd be eager to try.

Modifié par bleetman, 01 février 2012 - 12:30 .

[erilben]

Well why do the Dalish live longer? It's not surprising that they would live longer, They don't live in those filthy alienages and they don't lock up their mages.

[Abispa]

erilben wrote...

Well why do the Dalish live longer? It's not surprising that they would live longer, They don't live in those filthy alienages and they don't lock up their mages.

I always assumed that the Dalish lived longer than City Elves in the same way Whites live longer than Blacks in America. It's a matter of statistics. City Elves are more likely to die from violent crime, disease, poor nutrition, etc.

Plus healers aren't regulated by the Templars. They make a big deal in DA2 that Anders is running a free clinic. What kind of healing do poor city Elves have access to?

Modifié par Abispa, 01 février 2012 - 04:16 .

[thats1evildude]

erilben wrote...

Well why do the Dalish live longer? It's not surprising that they would live longer, They don't live in those filthy alienages and they don't lock up their mages.

Well, there's that, but it's because the Dalish avoid contact with humans whenever possible. Being in close proximity  to shemlen literally shortens the lifespans of elves.

[jlb524]

Abispa wrote...

Good Lord! You didn't... give her SHOES, did you!? That would TOTALLY ruin my immersion!

I did...
 

bleetman wrote...

...The Orlesian Noble Hunter armour mod isn't on the nexus anymore?

*Backs up DA2 override folder furiously*

Did the same

Wulfram wrote...
Do you think that would effect the relationship between Hawke and Merrill? I mean, if hanging around Hawke is shortening her lifespan, would they think she should leave?

I guess it depends on how much it's shortening it.   Three years?  Sixty years?

Modifié par jlb524, 02 février 2012 - 09:30 .

[erilben]

thats1evildude wrote...

erilben wrote...

Well why do the Dalish live longer? It's not surprising that they would live longer, They don't live in those filthy alienages and they don't lock up their mages.

Well, there's that, but it's because the Dalish avoid contact with humans whenever possible. Being in close proximity  to shemlen literally shortens the lifespans of elves.

that's what the Dalish think, but there's no good reason to believe it.

Also there was more to that quote:
Dalish tend to live longer. We're not talking into Tolkienesque numbers of years here. The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live. There are exceptional individuals among them as well, Zathrian had lived for almost three hundred years. It's going to vary but for the city elves, the elves that live inside human cities, they don't have exceptional lifespans at all.

But we know Zathrian living for 300 years had nothing to do with living away from humans. It was blood magic.

Modifié par erilben, 03 février 2012 - 06:46 .

[thats1evildude]

erilben wrote...

that's what the Dalish think, but there's no good reason to believe it.

There's no good reason to dismiss their beliefs, either. From what I've seen, the Dalish do seem to live longer; Marethari was apparently over 100 years old, but she looked about fifty or sixty to me.

erilben wrote...

But we know Zathrian living for 300 years had nothing to do with living away from humans. It was blood magic.

True, but his longevity also wasn't regarded as particularly unusual. Rare, certainly, but not unique.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 03 février 2012 - 07:16 .

[Abispa]

Zathrian was a mage and he was not the only DA character to use magic to extend his life. Supposedly there was a time when ALL Elves were mages, so it isn't hard to believe that at least some my have used their magic to supernaturally extend their lives. Unless Bioware gives us concrete information to the contrary, I'm going to take the Dalish belief that Elves were once capable of living centuries unaided with the same grain of salt that I take conservative Christians who say that man originally lived centuries in the Old Testament.

[Fiery Phoenix]

By SmailLika07