17176 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I kill Castillon, so that was never an option for me.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I've always let Isabela have her ship, I can never say no to those big *ahem* eyes, yes eyes. Might try rivalling Isabela in my next playthrough, but I find it hard to play Hawke as the generous hero type. Though Hawke did spend 5 gold on a wooden halla for Merrill, she was trying to save up for a new skill point she couldn't resist buying something for Merrill.

Merrill related question. When romancing Merrill do you kill the Dalish? Personally I think it makes more sense to kill them if your friending Merrill because to save them you have to be mean to Merrill. Also if I'm playing as a blood mage it seems silly to criticise Merrill, she's more sensible about demons than my Hawke.

[Xilizhra]

I'm undecided. I don't kill the Dalish so far, primarily because Merrill doesn't seem to be affected realistically by it for the rest of the game; just having Marethari die fits her reactions far better.

[Knight of Dane]

I have friendship romanced Merill without Hawke liking her blood magic, so the line "I promise no one else willl be harmed by Merrill's blood magic," fits fine.

[TEWR]

I never killed the Dalish, though my friendship Hawke supports Merrill's blood magic.

Throughout all the years he's known Merrill and witnessed how the clan had treated her, he knew that they wouldn't let her walk out unless they heard what they wanted to hear (Merrill's at fault, I'll make sure nothing bad happens ever again).

So Tobias Hawke told them that, but he didn't believe it. He knew that the clan would try and kill them all if he tried to explain and defend Merrill to them. He told them what they wanted to hear.

Additionally, he didn't want Merrill to see her clan die, which might add more guilt to her then she was already feeling with Marethari's death and make her even more depressed.

It was one of the few times in DAII where I could inject my roleplaying into the voiced protagonist.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Lol now I feel like a jerk for not making up an excuse not to kill them. I had a warden that killed the Dalish in DA:O so when Aderyn Hawke ended up killing the Dalish in DA2 I thought "uh oh, I've done it again." But I refused to go back to a previous save, I don't metagame on my first playthrough because its the only time I can be sure not to metagame at all (subsequent playthroughs lead to accidental metagaming).

[Knight of Dane]

Funny, the only time i think I have actually killed them was when i imported a dalish-slayer warden too.

[LobselVith8]

My apostate killed them - I thought it was the most honest reaction from my protagonist to say that he would protect Merrill. My apostate was a blood mage, he believed in Merrill, and blaming her for something that wasn't her fault felt too much like I was meta-gaming and not being sincere with the character. I really don't know what else they expected - trying to murder Hawke and Merrill in cold blood because they didn't like the honest truth? Because my Hawke refused to vilify Merrill to their asinine minds?

If they lived, I suppose they would vilify Merrill in their stories. I suppose the vilification of Merrill died with them.

[Xilizhra]

An interesting enough blog post. I strenuously disagree with several of its conclusions, but it's at least good reading; for instance, while she concedes that Marethari killed herself, it's still apparently in a literary sense Merrill's fault. I reject this, both because Marethari was never Merrill's responsibility and because I'm fairly sure Marethari didn't do what she did out of caring for Merrill, so much as some of that with a larger heap of desperately wanting to be right.

[TEWR]

flutiebear tends to write some interesting blogs, despite how my views tend to (strongly) disagree with his/her views. This blog being one in particular, as I've already read the first paragraph but I can tell where it's going. Still gonna read it though.

Though I am noticing a tendency for flutiebear to try and say that his/her views on the game's story are fact, which doesn't lend itself well to discussion methinks. But anyway, on to the matter at hand.

flutiebear wrote...


Whether you agree or not that Marethari did the right thing (personally, I don’t think she did) isn’t the point of “A New Path”, because the fact remains that she is dead, and it is because of Merrill.


Not that Merrill killed her – I emphasize that point because it was always Marethari’s choice to bargain with that demon; it was Marethari’s own hubris that led her to take it within her flesh. Marethari killed herself.

But Merrill was the impetus, the reason and the excuse, and for that, Marethari’s death will always be Merrill’s fault; the blood will always be on her hands, just as the guilt for Icarus’s death will always lie with Daedalus.

I find it hard to say that Merrill's at fault, because adults are accountable for their own actions. Merrill was the reason for Marethari's idiotic suicide driven by her own pride as both Keeper and a surrogate mother, sure. Merrill was the excuse given to try and justify it, yes.

That doesn't make it Merrill's fault.

And then this...

flutiebear wrote...


And unlike the decision to kill or spare Anders no amount of research or analysis or canon will ever, ever make this choice okay.

...is another thing I strongly disagree with.

Interesting read all the same though, wrong as I personally see it to be.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 18 juillet 2012 - 02:40 .

[Xilizhra]

Strangely, unlike her, I don't feel much guilt over making either choice in the end. If I tell the truth, it's their choice to attack me, and as such I don't feel any guiltier than I do fighting off all the many, many other people who do so; most of my inner thoughts are wondering why the hell, say, Paival and Arianni are attacking me when I go back to the camp after the initial fight. If I defuse the situation, I'm lying for pragmatic reasons, not continuing a cycle of anything--akin to you, rather.

I'm considering starting my own blog about DA2, probably starting with something on Merrill and this topic.

[Knight of Dane]

I always wondered about Arianni too, i would have thought that going out of my way to save her wuss of a boy should have been enought for her to at least lay down the weapons..

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Interesting blog, but I still think Marethari is more to blame than Merrill. I admit that what Merrill was doing was dangerous but she did all she could to ensure she was only endangering herself. Merrill had no way to predict what Marethari was going to do and how the clan would react.

One thing I don't get is why the clan hate Merrill so much. Pol ran straight to his death to get away from Merrill, why would he be that afraid of her? I tend to think its probably Marethari's doing. Even if she didn't tell the clan directly that Merrill was dangerous she obviously let them believe that.

[thats1evildude]

Pol was a city elf. Of course, he converted to the Dalish faith, but he would have been brought up under Chantry doctrine. The Chantry teaches that blood mages are evil and his fear was reinforced by Marethari's warnings.

He was still rather stupid, though.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 18 juillet 2012 - 10:00 .

[TEWR]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

One thing I don't get is why the clan hate Merrill so much. Pol ran straight to his death to get away from Merrill, why would he be that afraid of her? I tend to think its probably Marethari's doing. Even if she didn't tell the clan directly that Merrill was dangerous she obviously let them believe that.

It actually is Marethari's doing. Marethari spread baseless lies about Merrill that made the clan consider her a monster -- prompting Pol to act like he did, stupid as it was -- and then she had the audacity to ask Merrill to come back as if the whole thing would go back to normal. As if the clan wouldn't still consider her a monster after Marethari -- their Keeper -- told them those things.

[dragonflight288]

Merethari outright admits to telling the clan that Merrill would bring back the darkspawn taint. Despite the cleansing of the eluvian and the fact that no one contract the taint in all the years she had it. Pol was a city elf who still had deeply ingrained beliefs about blood mages and how evil they are. He let his own prejudices affect his logic and reason. Anyone who knows Merrill would know she wouldn't do anything to hurt the Dalish or her clan. Everything she did was following what the Dalish are supposed to do. And for that, she was hated.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I thought I remembered that Marethari had been talking trash about Merrill but I wasn't sure if I was just making it up. I hadn't really considered that Pol would be more wary of blood magic due to being a city elf but it makes sense. Though he did seem like a bit of a wuss anyway, its fun to take the ****** out of him in the Dalish origin (so strange hearing Merrill without her Welsh accent).

I've only ever tried rivalling Merrill once, it was cool to see Merrill showing her assertive side (Merrill chucking Hawke out of her house was awesome) but that was the only plus point. Hawke just seems really patronising when she rivals Merrill, she ends up doing the same thing as Marethari and it just shows a lack of respect. I much prefer the friendship path, I like Hawke to believe in Merrill. Plus blood magic is awesome, I like to headcanon that Hawke learns that specialisation from Merrill.

[LobselVith8]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

I much prefer the friendship path, I like Hawke to believe in Merrill.

I think the Friendship path with Merrill is great. Hawke doesn't really know anything about elven culture, much less the Eluvian, while Merrill extrapolated information from the shard and studied the lore about the Eluvian. I didn't think it made much sense for Hawke to tell Merrill that she is wrong about something that he is completely ignorant about.

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Plus blood magic is awesome, I like to headcanon that Hawke learns that specialization from Merrill.

Yes, it is. If you don't want a templar to lop off your apostate head because they nullified your abilities, blood magic is the way to go. And a few people (like myself) like to think Merrill was the person who taught their Hawke blood magic; someone even wrote a story about their apostate Hawke learning from Merrill.

[Xilizhra]

Yes, it is. If you don't want a templar to lop off your apostate head because they nullified your abilities, blood magic is the way to go. And a few people (like myself) like to think Merrill was the person who taught their Hawke blood magic; someone even wrote a story about their apostate Hawke learning from Merrill.

This was my rationale as well, especially since I always take it as my second specialization (because doing so as your first is sort of useless). Maybe as part of their romance...

[Face of Evil]

You know, having played a warrior who picked up the templar specialization, I find their powers work just as well on blood mages.

You have to kill them very quickly, though, or they'll wipe out your whole party.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 19 juillet 2012 - 05:02 .

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Xilizhra wrote...

This was my rationale as well, especially since I always take it as my second specialization (because doing so as your first is sort of useless). Maybe as part of their romance...

Yeah blood magic isn't very useful for a low level Hawke but I took it as my first specialization this playthrough for the +25 health (or at least I think its +25). I waited a few levels before actually putting any skill points into blood magic though. I'm trying nightmare this time around so I figured the friendly fire from force magic would be a pain in the arse. It would make more sense that Hawke would learn blood magic from Merrill later in the game though as you say.

Just started playing Legacy yesterday, only my 2nd playthrough of Legacy so I'm hearing some Merrill comments I hadn't heard before. Although my favourite Legacy banter still has to be the one about the marbles. Also in the main game I came across a few battle cries I'd not heard before. One of them was something on the lines of: "Hello, I'm Merrill and I'll be your distraction. You can't hit me." Another I hadn't heard before was: "Does anybody know why nothing seems to be working?" (or words to that effect) I'm guessing I'd not heard that before because enemies don't have immunities on lower difficulties. I really like the tone of her voice on that one, it tends to mirror my own frustration because hearing Merrill say that usually means I've given her a staff that the enemy is immune to.

[PinkDiamondstl]

I wonder what my Elf warden will say/do when she finds out that because of Merrill that Marethari is dead..

[Abispa]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I wonder what my Elf warden will say/do when she finds out that because of Merrill that Marethari is dead..

Since we'll probably never see any versions of the Warden in the game again, you'll have to head cannon like the rest of us.

My Dalish Warden converted to the Chantry after becoming a Templar, so their meeting won't be a happy one.

[LobselVith8]

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I wonder what my Elf warden will say/do when she finds out that because of Merrill that Marethari is dead..

Marethari is dead because she let a demon loose from its prison and became an abomination. She was a grown woman, and she made her choice. Merrill isn't to blame for Marethari acting of her own volition. It's the same with the clan - they can also die, and it's entirely their fault; I don't blame Hawke or Merrill for the Dalish trying to commit cold-blooded murder, I blame the grown adults who make a bad move that results in their demise.

[Xilizhra]

LobselVith8 wrote...

PinkDiamondstl wrote...

I wonder what my Elf warden will say/do when she finds out that because of Merrill that Marethari is dead..

Marethari is dead because she let a demon loose from its prison and became an abomination. She was a grown woman, and she made her choice. Merrill isn't to blame for Marethari acting of her own volition. It's the same with the clan - they can also die, and it's entirely their fault; I don't blame Hawke or Merrill for the Dalish trying to commit cold-blooded murder, I blame the grown adults who make a bad move that results in their demise.

Which is all true, but at the same time, imagine being a HN and having Howe tell you that it was really all your own family's fault that they died. I know the comparison isn't exactly perfect, but a trained warrior's first reaction on hearing that their entire... basically, entire town has been slaughtered is going to be rage either way. Merrill may be able to talk Mahariel down from this, and if Mahariel has survived this, she'd be smart enough to possibly listen, but it wouldn't be easy.

Of course, if it's just Marethari who died, it'd probably be far easier, though it'd become a bit of a he-said-she-said game between Merrill and the rest of the clan.

By the way, all major Sabrae characters have their names start with M.