She also talks about Fen'Harel during a dialogue with Dog.
Merrill - She's a Keeper!
Débuté par
Maria Caliban
, janv. 10 2011 10:17
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#17002
Posté 06 septembre 2012 - 07:26
thats1evildude
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Quargon, the fellow who posted that sad picture of Merrill a page or two back, completed this piece a little while ago. I saw it recently on the DA twitter feed. (No, I don't know how to post images from Deviantart.)
Modifié par thats1evildude, 07 septembre 2012 - 06:38 .
#17004
Posté 07 septembre 2012 - 05:41
Ulathar
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Wow, this has to be one of the best Merrill fanarts I've seen! Ithats1evildude wrote...
this piece
it.
#17005
Posté 09 septembre 2012 - 07:33
TEWR
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holy crap. GUISE GUISE GUISE GUISE GUISE... I just noticed something.
So, I loaded up an old DAII save because I enjoy beating the **** out of Abomination Marethari, when I noticed something weird. Might be nothing, or might be something.
But when Merrill kneels down after the whole thing is done to lament over what's happened, Marethari blinks. I thought I was imagining it at first, but upon loading said save a few times over I noticed that she always does it.
Probably just a bug, but if it isn't....
So, I loaded up an old DAII save because I enjoy beating the **** out of Abomination Marethari, when I noticed something weird. Might be nothing, or might be something.
But when Merrill kneels down after the whole thing is done to lament over what's happened, Marethari blinks. I thought I was imagining it at first, but upon loading said save a few times over I noticed that she always does it.
Probably just a bug, but if it isn't....
#17006
Posté 09 septembre 2012 - 11:41
Knight of Dane
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It means she really IS into Hawke!?
#17007
Posté 30 septembre 2012 - 06:27
smallwhippet
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#17008
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 02:10
Face of Evil
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That's very well-drawn. Though what's in that pastry is kind of worrying me. 
#17009
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 10:57
smallwhippet
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Just strawberry jam, as far as I know... No blood intended!
#17010
Posté 02 octobre 2012 - 02:42
Ulathar
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Yeah right!smallwhippet wrote...
Just strawberry jam, as far as I know... No blood intended!
#17011
Posté 09 octobre 2012 - 08:20
TEWR
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Great pic. And strawberry jam, eh? Sounds awesome.
But Merrill, being an Elf, and holding a pastry filled with strawberry jam made my mind jump to the rumors about Commander Asturian -- though that was about raspberry jam.
Which was.... really random.
But Merrill, being an Elf, and holding a pastry filled with strawberry jam made my mind jump to the rumors about Commander Asturian -- though that was about raspberry jam.
Which was.... really random.
#17012
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 15 octobre 2012 - 12:16
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I've always liked Merrill as a character. I thought she was pretty and cute and sweet, but it wasn't until recently that I realized how much I actually like her insights and agree with her ideologies (along with Varric) more than anyone else in the game.
As a Dalish elf, she brings not only refreshing elvish insight to the overwhelmingly human Chantry-centered viewpoints (seriously, between Hawke, Anders, Justice, Sebastian, Elthina, Cullen, Meredith, and all the other Circle mages and Templars, I felt smothered by all the Andrastian human content in the game), but as a well-educated Keeper's First, she's able to take it a step further and challenge "universally accepted" human ideologies and viewpoints with elvish ones.
I love her insights, but also the insights other characters gain by talking to her.
-For example, I love how she challenges the "accepted" view that blood magic is automatically evil, stating how it's a tool, just like every other type of magic. How you use it determines whether it's good or bad.
-I love how she tells Anders off when he lectures her about Demons being dangerous because they're jealous of mortals thanks to the Maker passing them over. "Your 'Maker' is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours."
-I love how she challenges Anders' (and most Andrastians') assumptions that some Fade beings are are All Good and others are All Evil. "Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't."
-I love how she subverts Sebastian's attempts at getting her to understand "the truth" of the Chant of Light by pointing out some of its inconsistencies. "I don't know. It's a nice story, but I think it's got some holes."
-I love how she challenges Sebastian's endless praise of the Chantry by pointing out some of its current moral failings. Not just the usual "Boo, you oppress mages" like most other characters, but just how they deal with regular people on a regular basis. "The Chantry does many charitable works. It cares for widows and orphans—"
"Who in the Dalish would just be part of the clan, like everyone else. I just don't get it."
-Most of all, I love how her talk with Sebastian over the similarities between the human and elven religions reveals that they might come from the same source. SEBASTIAN, of all people, is willing to admit through his talk with her that both or neither religion might be correct, rather than the usual: "The Chantry is right, everyone else is pagan, barbaric, and wrong."
Merrill: Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us.
Sebastian: We say the same of the Maker. Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world.
I don't know, in a game FULL of people who spout endless Chantry beliefs and ideologies, I feel like it's nice to have someone challenge it and offer another perspective. Granted, some characters express doubt, like Aveline, while others express complete indifference, like Varric and Isabela (who are awesome like that), but I think it's nice to have a character who goes the extra step and points out, directly and indirectly, that there are other ways of looking at Thedas.
I don't know, I've just been thinking of this all day, and didn't know where to put it, so I thought the Merrill appreciation thread would be as good a place as any. I love her as a character, but I also love how she as a character contributes to the overall story. (Not even getting into her endless cute sayings, which I'm sure have already been covered. =)
As a Dalish elf, she brings not only refreshing elvish insight to the overwhelmingly human Chantry-centered viewpoints (seriously, between Hawke, Anders, Justice, Sebastian, Elthina, Cullen, Meredith, and all the other Circle mages and Templars, I felt smothered by all the Andrastian human content in the game), but as a well-educated Keeper's First, she's able to take it a step further and challenge "universally accepted" human ideologies and viewpoints with elvish ones.
I love her insights, but also the insights other characters gain by talking to her.
-For example, I love how she challenges the "accepted" view that blood magic is automatically evil, stating how it's a tool, just like every other type of magic. How you use it determines whether it's good or bad.
-I love how she tells Anders off when he lectures her about Demons being dangerous because they're jealous of mortals thanks to the Maker passing them over. "Your 'Maker' is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours."
-I love how she challenges Anders' (and most Andrastians') assumptions that some Fade beings are are All Good and others are All Evil. "Anders... There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't."
-I love how she subverts Sebastian's attempts at getting her to understand "the truth" of the Chant of Light by pointing out some of its inconsistencies. "I don't know. It's a nice story, but I think it's got some holes."
-I love how she challenges Sebastian's endless praise of the Chantry by pointing out some of its current moral failings. Not just the usual "Boo, you oppress mages" like most other characters, but just how they deal with regular people on a regular basis. "The Chantry does many charitable works. It cares for widows and orphans—"
"Who in the Dalish would just be part of the clan, like everyone else. I just don't get it."
-Most of all, I love how her talk with Sebastian over the similarities between the human and elven religions reveals that they might come from the same source. SEBASTIAN, of all people, is willing to admit through his talk with her that both or neither religion might be correct, rather than the usual: "The Chantry is right, everyone else is pagan, barbaric, and wrong."
Merrill: Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us.
Sebastian: We say the same of the Maker. Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world.
I don't know, in a game FULL of people who spout endless Chantry beliefs and ideologies, I feel like it's nice to have someone challenge it and offer another perspective. Granted, some characters express doubt, like Aveline, while others express complete indifference, like Varric and Isabela (who are awesome like that), but I think it's nice to have a character who goes the extra step and points out, directly and indirectly, that there are other ways of looking at Thedas.
I don't know, I've just been thinking of this all day, and didn't know where to put it, so I thought the Merrill appreciation thread would be as good a place as any. I love her as a character, but I also love how she as a character contributes to the overall story. (Not even getting into her endless cute sayings, which I'm sure have already been covered. =)
Modifié par Faerunner, 15 octobre 2012 - 12:19 .
- Tower of Hanoi aime ceci
#17013
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 04:38
TEWR
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Faerunner wrote...
-Most of all, I love how her talk with Sebastian over the similarities between the human and elven religions reveals that they might come from the same source. SEBASTIAN, of all people, is willing to admit through his talk with her that both or neither religion might be correct, rather than the usual: "The Chantry is right, everyone else is pagan, barbaric, and wrong."
Merrill: Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us.
Sebastian: We say the same of the Maker. Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world.
I kinda think Sebastian is wrong in that the Dalish gods and the Maker are the same.
My guess would be that, since the Dalish believe the Elven gods were born of the world and didn't create it, the Maker created the Dalish Gods and wanted them to care for the Elves, who he created.
So the Elves are his children, but he doesn't really care about who they worship.
That said, I too was happy at him admitting it as a possibility. It speaks volumes to his religious tolerance -- something the Chantry lacks greatly.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 16 octobre 2012 - 06:37 .
#17014
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 06:15
Ulathar
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Yes, one aspect of why I like Merrill as a character is the fact that she provides more insight on the Dalish and their religion.
Of course I heard all of these conversations with the other companions, too, but since there was always a lot of time between them I never really put them "together" as you have, Faerunner. This makes me like Merrill even more now, thank you. xD
Of course I heard all of these conversations with the other companions, too, but since there was always a lot of time between them I never really put them "together" as you have, Faerunner. This makes me like Merrill even more now, thank you. xD
#17015
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 16 octobre 2012 - 04:32
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Faerunner wrote...
-Most of all, I love how her talk with Sebastian over the similarities between the human and elven religions reveals that they might come from the same source. SEBASTIAN, of all people, is willing to admit through his talk with her that both or neither religion might be correct, rather than the usual: "The Chantry is right, everyone else is pagan, barbaric, and wrong."
Merrill: Our gods abandoned us long ago. They haven't answered our prayers since the fall of Arlathan. When we've proven that we're elves again, that we didn't lose everything, they'll come back to us.
Sebastian: We say the same of the Maker. Perhaps they're only different names for the same divine force that created the world.
I kinda think Sebastian is wrong in that the Dalish gods and the Maker are the same.
My guess would be that, since the Dalish believe the Elven gods were born of the world and didn't create it, the Maker created the Dalish Gods and wanted them to care for the Elves, who he created.
So the Elves are his children, but he doesn't really care about who they worship.
That said, I too was happy at him admitting it as a possibility. It speaks volumes to his religious tolerance -- something the Chantry lacks greatly.
I don't even think Sebastian fully believes it. I mean, he doesn't give up his Maker, Andraste or Chantry-pushing ways. He just thows it out as a possibility. I think what he's getting at, though, is that mortals of different religions might asign different names, faces and stories to a more neutral divinity to suit their racial and cultural perspectives.
Let's be fair, we don't even know if any of the religions ARE true, or that they happened the way the worshippers say they happened. For example, the Chantry teaches that the Magisters tainted the "Golden City" by setting foot in it, whereas Corypheous (implied to be one of the first darkspawn and someone we can physically talk to) implies that the realm was corrupted before they even got there. Who's to say something like how the world originated is fully correct, from elven or human perspectives?
All in all, I think saying, "They can't be based on the same thing because this religion says this while that one says that," is sort of missing the point of what Sebastian was getting at, as well as kind of pointless since we don't really know the truth behind most these religions and stories.
#17016
Posté 18 octobre 2012 - 03:12
LobselVith8
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Faerunner wrote...
I don't even think Sebastian fully believes it. I mean, he doesn't give up his Maker, Andraste or Chantry-pushing ways. He just thows it out as a possibility. I think what he's getting at, though, is that mortals of different religions might asign different names, faces and stories to a more neutral divinity to suit their racial and cultural perspectives.
Let's be fair, we don't even know if any of the religions ARE true, or that they happened the way the worshippers say they happened. For example, the Chantry teaches that the Magisters tainted the "Golden City" by setting foot in it, whereas Corypheus (implied to be one of the first darkspawn and someone we can physically talk to) implies that the realm was corrupted before they even got there. Who's to say something like how the world originated is fully correct, from elven or human perspectives?
All in all, I think saying, "They can't be based on the same thing because this religion says this while that one says that," is sort of missing the point of what Sebastian was getting at, as well as kind of pointless since we don't really know the truth behind most these religions and stories.
No one knows the truth, but I think Merrill's point in her retort was that there are drastic differences between the two religions. As for Sebastian, he says something else that colors his dialogue in that exchange with Merrill; if taken to the Dalish clan at Sundermount, he thinks there are a lot of souls waiting to experience "the Light" (of the Chant, it can be inferred).
#17017
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 07:53
TEWR
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Oh man, I remember that dialogue too. That seems to make him inconsistent. Are they trying to make him a person that's tolerant or a person that wants to proselytize to anyone who isn't an Andrastian?
#17018
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 21 octobre 2012 - 08:11
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Because religious people are never inconsistent.
Yep I already regret going there.
Lest too many heads explode I guess I should explain, in this context at least, it's just the nature of most religious doctrines that theirs has a monopoly on the truth. I doubt the Chantry is any different. So to really be open to the idea that there could be truth in other religions, yet still hold faith in your own doctrine, it seems like there is inevitably going to be some cognitive dissonance there. But I don't think that's necessarily bad characterization.
Yep I already regret going there.
Lest too many heads explode I guess I should explain, in this context at least, it's just the nature of most religious doctrines that theirs has a monopoly on the truth. I doubt the Chantry is any different. So to really be open to the idea that there could be truth in other religions, yet still hold faith in your own doctrine, it seems like there is inevitably going to be some cognitive dissonance there. But I don't think that's necessarily bad characterization.
Modifié par Filament, 21 octobre 2012 - 08:16 .
#17019
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 12:11
Guns
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WHAT DID YOU DO TO MERRILL'S VOICE?!?!?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
#17020
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 04:49
thats1evildude
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I prefer the Welsh Merrill of DA2 to the Cardboard Stand-up Merrill of DAO.
Modifié par thats1evildude, 02 novembre 2012 - 04:50 .
#17021
Posté 02 novembre 2012 - 06:39
Ulathar
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So much this!thats1evildude wrote...
I prefer the Welsh Merrill of DA2
#17022
Posté 21 décembre 2012 - 02:31
Xilizhra
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I'm coming in here largely because we desperately need more bumping.
#17023
Guest_Snoop Lion_*
Posté 02 janvier 2013 - 03:36
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Merrill is my favorite character.
#17024
Posté 04 janvier 2013 - 07:14
LobselVith8
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Guns wrote...
WHAT DID YOU DO TO MERRILL'S VOICE?!?!?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I liked Merrill's voice in Dragon Age II. I actually watched Farscape and Torchwood long before I played Origins and Dragon Age II, so it was neat to hear the voices of Morrigan and Merrill (especially going from a science fiction setting on those shows to a fantasy world).
Despite all my issues with Dragon Age II, she remains a bright spot (and an awesome character) when I think about the game. An intelligent, proactive person who tried to make a difference for the People.
#17025
Guest_Faerunner_*
Posté 06 janvier 2013 - 12:40
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LobselVith8 wrote...
No one knows the truth, but I think Merrill's point in her retort was that there are drastic differences between the two religions. As for Sebastian, he says something else that colors his dialogue in that exchange with Merrill; if taken to the Dalish clan at Sundermount, he thinks there are a lot of souls waiting to experience "the Light" (of the Chant, it can be inferred).
A little late to reply, but what the heck?
There are drastic differences in all Thedosian religions, but there are also common themes throughout them too. When you look closely, Thedas used to be predominently polytheistic (it seems the dwarves used to worship multiple gods, the elves worshipped the Creators, Tevinter worshipped the Old Gods, etc) but over time most people were streamlined into a more monotheistic route (modern dwarves now worship The Stone, most of Thedas has been converted to worship the Maker; and the few that don't are no longer in power.)
Most religions also have a distinct absent god motif. The elves used to have their Creators until they were locked away by Fen'Harel, Tevinter used to have their Old Gods until they were locked away by the Maker, and the Maker locked away the Old Gods and abandoned Thedas after Andraste was killed. I don't know if the Qunari count, but they don't seem to have any anthropomorphic personified deities either, and they're fairly recent additions to Thedas.
Where am I going with this? I don't know. I personally don't think it's entirely impossible that the different religions are small facets of a greater divine power. Maybe Thedas used to be run by multiple deities (maybe the ancient dwarven deities, Elven Creators and Tevinter Old Gods are all different names for the same divine forces), then they were locked away by one upstart (maybe Fen'Harel locking up the Creators describes the same phenomina as the Maker locking up the Old Gods--though come to think of it, maybe the Tevinter Old Gods and/or the ancient dwarven deities are "The Forgotten Ones" of the Elven pantheon), and then promptly fled. (Neither the elves know where Fen'Harel is now, nor do humans know where the Maker is.)
Or it could all be a crock. I have no idea, but I enjoy speculating.
As for Sebastian: yeah, you're right. I guess I was giving him too much credit. For all any of us know, while he was suggesting that the elven and human religions could be different names to describe the same divine force, he was thinking that the human names are right and the poor silly elves are a little off (much like Leliana).
I still love Merrill's viewpoint best because she fully admits that not even the elves know what's going on upstairs, but she chooses to follow the elven pantheon because they're her people's ancestral beliefs and stories, and she'd rather use her own than follow someone else's. (I still love how she stands up to Anders about that.)
In short: Meh.
