29 réponses à ce sujet

[AmyBA]

I am doing my 6th, and most likely last playthrough of DA for awhile. I am trying to make this my "perfect" playthrough (doing every quest I can, filling the entire codex, getting all items, etc) and also will be making this character my canon and the one whose choices I import over to DA2. This post might be a bit long and I apologize if so. But thanks in advance for any replies and answers/opinions.

I tend to roleplay the story out in my head as I am going, and for this character things have been a bit dramatic and complicated. She is a human and a mage. Her attitude is one that is witty, intelligent, and logical. She leans more toward making the "good" choice, but also trys to be pragmatic and make the "logical" choices.

So far, I have it played out so that she had a little thing going on with Cullen at the Mages Circle (made true thanks to a mod) but of course that ended badly as he went crazy and began to loath mages. So eventually, she ends up falling for Alistair, a source of positive energy and support for her during a trying time.

At the same time, she has managed to befriend Morrigan and looks up to Wynne as her mentor. Both have made it clear the she should enjoy her time with Alistair while she can, because in the end they each have a path and duty that will separate them, and they will have to give up what they have for the good of Ferelden.

While this pains her, she knows its true and will do the smart thing and make her own personal sacrifice, by giving up her relationship with Alistair and having him marry Anora.

This is where I am having a hard time deciding what I should do. I would like to let Loghain live this time, recruit him as a Warden, and allow him to make the killing blow on the Archdemon. I have actually never done this on any of my playthroughs. I have almost every other combination of options and choices, but have not done this path.

I have seen videos of how Alistair reacts when Loghain is spared, and Alistair is told to marry Anora. He goes off and says some terrible, scathing things to the Warden, then immediately leaves to marry Anora. It was rather brutal. I am curious to know if it is as brutal when you are still a romantic interest.

Also, do you get any other chances to speak to him after this, such as at the coronation before the epilogue? And if so how does he react to your warden then? I am wondering as well what the epilogue says in this instance about King Alistair, both if Loghain makes the killing blow, and if the ritual is preformed and Loghain lives.

Modifié par AmyBA, 11 janvier 2011 - 01:36 .

[HolyAvenger]

You do get a chance to speak to him at the epilogue. I wasn't in a romance with him so I can't speak to that, but he did seem more forgiving in the epilogue (as I allowed Loghain to sacrifice himself to the kill the Archdemon). I choose to think that my Warden and him remained good friends.

[Giggles_Manically]

Here I go:



If you spare Loghain and have Alistair marry Anora, you can talk to him again at Arl Eamon's Estate.

Then one last time at the coronation.



As to what he says:

He is not happy at all, and does have a few extra lines if you had romanced in thrown in. Its over and deader then dead with him, plus he pretty much tells you to bugger off in a polite manner during the coronation.

[Ferretinabun]

I believe he's still pretty pissy, even if you're his love interest. And that you do get to speak to him at the coronation but even then he's bitter about you recruiting Loghain. It's a bitter pill if you like Alistair, but consider it's his childishness which is bringing the unpleasantness about, and it's a more fitting reason for your Warden to leave and take up duties as Warden Commander for Awakenings and go wandering off into the DLCs...



If Loghain survives the game, the epilogue slide says he becomes a major recruiter for the Grey Wardens - before being reassigned to Orlais! In fact, he makes a cameo appearance in Awakenings while he's on his way over there - with some genius dialogue to boot. Alistair and Loghain's epilogue slides do not influence each other - if Alistair is on the throne, you get his slides, if Loghain survives the game, you get his slide. There is no other slide for if they both survive the game. Though there is a slide about him if he dies and you make Anora queen - she erects a statue of him. If he dies at the Landsmeet, she is the only one who ever vists it. If he dies taking the final blow, it is a popular landmark and people generally think well of him.



I'd definitely advise letting Loghain survive the Landsmeet at least once - he has some very interesting dialogue and you get to understand so much about him in your fireside chats. That said, I killed him in my cannon playthrough...

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Loghain turned up in Awakenings even when he'd sacrificed himself. My Cousland was all "Uh oh...Alistair's not going to be happy about this..."

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Loghain turned up in Awakenings even when he'd sacrificed himself. My Cousland was all "Uh oh...Alistair's not going to be happy about this..."

Loghain the revnant? I wouldn't be happy about that either....

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

At least he dropped loot.

[mdelvalle]

What does the term "Cannon Play-through" mean??

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

@mdelvalle: A canon playthrough is a player's 'official' game. The choices they make are what they intend to carry over into any sequels, and that Warden is 'The Warden' out of all their games. Or it could just mean their favourite game, end epilogue of which they're sticking with.

[AmyBA]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

@mdelvalle: A canon playthrough is a player's 'official' game. The choices they make are what they intend to carry over into any sequels, and that Warden is 'The Warden' out of all their games. Or it could just mean their favourite game, end epilogue of which they're sticking with.

Yes, this is what it means for me, the canon playthrough is the definitive story for me, when referencing "The Warden" this character is the one being referenced. Her choices and decisions are the ones that matter and carry over to future incarnations of the game.


Thanks for the responses so far. Guess my character will have a bit of a bitter end with Alistair then. Poor thing, shes going to heart broken (I will be a bit too, Alistair is a decent guy, hate to do wrong by him, lol.)

It is fitting with her so far though. I originally intended to just kill Loghain, as usual, and just deny being Alistairs mistress. But I realized I probably wont be playing through again anytime soon, and I wanted to see the ending with Loghain having become a Grey Warden.

Crazy how a game gets you so wrapped up and can make such things difficult to decide. XD

Modifié par AmyBA, 11 janvier 2011 - 02:27 .

[mousestalker]

I just did the court Alistair, recruit Loghain, get dumped by Alistair and do the Dark Ritual with Loghain ending. Oddly enough it was with a female elven mage.



Boy is that brutal. Alistair is scathing, and rightly so. And he is very cold at the coronation. But the piece with Loghain in Awakening was entertaining and he does drop loot, as it were.



It's worth doing, just to see and to see another side to Alistair. I felt absolutely awful for a while afterwards, so if you're roleplaying, have something comforting around.

[HolyAvenger]

I dunno I think its good to make Alistair grow up a little. He whines so much when you spare Loghain that I wasn't even that cut up about losing him.



To be fair, I wasn't romancing him.

[AmyBA]

mousestalker wrote...

I just did the court Alistair, recruit Loghain, get dumped by Alistair and do the Dark Ritual with Loghain ending. Oddly enough it was with a female elven mage.

Boy is that brutal. Alistair is scathing, and rightly so. And he is very cold at the coronation. But the piece with Loghain in Awakening was entertaining and he does drop loot, as it were.

It's worth doing, just to see and to see another side to Alistair. I felt absolutely awful for a while afterwards, so if you're roleplaying, have something comforting around.

My husband will probably be shaking his head at me, lol.

My cat always sits in my lap or infront of my keyboard, so that hes inbetween my arms while I play. If I get upset I will just have to snuggle him to death for comfort. XD

[sevalaricgirl]

I just can't do it. I can't spare Loghain or marry Alistair to Anora. If I'm not a Cousland, then Alistair stays a Grey Warden and Anora rules alone. I'm to selfish to do it any other way and I certainly don't see anything redeeming in Loghain who tried to have me killed so many times that I lost count.

[Giggles_Manically]

So you cant count past two?

Zevran tries to kill you and then the guards in Lothering.

One and Two.



Those are the only outright attempts on your life.

[testing123]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So you cant count past two?
Zevran tries to kill you and then the guards in Lothering.
One and Two.

Those are the only outright attempts on your life.

The Landsmeet doesn't count?  Or the mercenaries outside Orzammar?  Do the guys in the brothel in Denerim count...

[mousestalker]

The mercenaries in Lothering.

The bounty on your head (mentioned by Ser Bryant and others) accompanied by a zerg rush of indigents in Lothering.

Zevran.

The bounty hunters in the Frostback mountains.

The ambassador at the gates of Orzammar (King Loghain, indeed).

The honey trap at the Pearl.

There may be one or two more.

[LobselVith8]

jvee wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So you cant count past two?
Zevran tries to kill you and then the guards in Lothering.
One and Two.

Those are the only outright attempts on your life.

The Landsmeet doesn't count?  Or the mercenaries outside Orzammar?  Do the guys in the brothel in Denerim count...

I think it's been debated if those attempts (by the soldiers in Lothering and Orzammar) were actually by Loghain, or if they were enginerred by Howe in Loghain's name. After all, you can steal Loghain's "crown" with Loghain in your party, and he doesn't seem to be aware that it even existed.

[testing123]

 

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it's been debated if those attempts (by the soldiers in Lothering and Orzammar) were actually by Loghain, or if they were enginerred by Howe in Loghain's name. After all, you can steal Loghain's "crown" with Loghain in your party, and he doesn't seem to be aware that it even existed.

So he only tried to kill me a couple of times?  How cheery!  And after he initiated the violence against me, he at the very least allowed others to continue their attempts in his name?  Well, let's absolve him then.  I honestly don't understand why anyone feels the need to defend the actual number of attempts Loghain makes on the warden's life.  You are his adversary, of course he is going to try to kill you.  Does it really matter if he only tried two times or a million?

Modifié par jvee, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:37 .

[Persephone]

Oh, this discussion again............

-_-

[LobselVith8]

jvee wrote...

 

LobselVith8 wrote...

I think it's been debated if those attempts (by the soldiers in Lothering and Orzammar) were actually by Loghain, or if they were enginerred by Howe in Loghain's name. After all, you can steal Loghain's "crown" with Loghain in your party, and he doesn't seem to be aware that it even existed.

So he only tried to kill me a couple of times?  How cheery!  And after he initiated the violence against me, he at the very least allowed others to continue their attempts in his name?  Well, let's absolve him then.  I honestly don't understand why anyone feels the need to defend the actual number of attempts Loghain makes on the warden's life.  You are his adversary, of course he is going to try to kill you.  Does it really matter if he only tried two times or a million?

I spared Zevran, so I'm probably not the person to ask. There's a few dozen threads where this topic has been debated to death, and I'm not inclined to engage in one myself. I think Alistair and Loghain are interesting and flawed characters, and I can see why someone would want an outcome where both of them are alive. Regardless of his actions at Ostagar (which are highly debated) and against the Wardens, Loghain is a hero among the Ferelden people and a popular figure among his troops, and his experience would be valuable in helping put an end to the Blight.

[testing123]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I spared Zevran, so I'm probably not the person to ask. There's a few dozen threads where this topic has been debated to death, and I'm not inclined to engage in one myself. I think Alistair and Loghain are interesting and flawed characters, and I can see why someone would want an outcome where both of them are alive. Regardless of his actions at Ostagar (which are highly debated) and against the Wardens, Loghain is a hero among the Ferelden people and a popular figure among his troops, and his experience would be valuable in helping put an end to the Blight.

I agree.  Good day to you sir.

I'm still curious why anyone feels the need to defend how many times Loghain tries to kill the Warden though.  So if anyone has an answer to that I'm all ears.

[AmyBA]

I'd rather this not be discussed here.

There are a lot of other threads talking about it.

I just wanted to know how the epilogue and story turns out at the end so I could make my choice, for roleplay and story and personal reasons, maybe and which way people thought my character should go after seeing my description of her.

It is just a game after all, I don't really care about the specifics or whys and hows. I just want to experience the game in a different way before I have to move on from it for awhile.

Modifié par AmyBA, 11 janvier 2011 - 09:13 .

[ejoslin]

jvee wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I spared Zevran, so I'm probably not the person to ask. There's a few dozen threads where this topic has been debated to death, and I'm not inclined to engage in one myself. I think Alistair and Loghain are interesting and flawed characters, and I can see why someone would want an outcome where both of them are alive. Regardless of his actions at Ostagar (which are highly debated) and against the Wardens, Loghain is a hero among the Ferelden people and a popular figure among his troops, and his experience would be valuable in helping put an end to the Blight.

I agree.  Good day to you sir.

I'm still curious why anyone feels the need to defend how many times Loghain tries to kill the Warden though.  So if anyone has an answer to that I'm all ears.

Is that really the topic of this thread, though?  I'm not sure I saw anyone defending it either, though his attempting to kill you IS to be expected.

Loghain is the big bad guy -- that he has more depth than that is one of the good parts of the game.  As to why I recruit him into the gray wardens occasionally has more to do with what Riorden says rather than siding with Loghain to give him a pass.  Alistair is the one who makes it "him or me."  Whether Alistair is right or wrong in this is not something i want to debate -- ultimately, I understand Alistair's reaction, and I would think that eventually he realizes he should have put his personal feelings aside and fought the blight anyway as that was really more important.  

Anyway!

[testing123]

AmyBA wrote...

I'd rather this not be discussed here.

Apologies, it was not my intent to derail the thread.  Unfortunately, I have never romanced Alistair so I couldn't tell you if it is any different.  I wouldn't expect much of a reconciliation though.  He really, really, really hates Loghain and he views your 'pardon' of him as a huge betrayal, love interest or no.