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[prazision]

Perhaps it is too late for this game (I hope not, as there are two full months left and we have hardly any non-alpha footage so far) but hear me out:
1. The Basic Approach.
In BioWare games, no matter what your PC's appearance or personality is, LIs (of the "appropriate" gender) will fall in love with you. This establishes, quote strongly, that the intent behind the romances is that the PC is "irresistable" - Leliana will fall in love with you if you're a svelt, gorgeous Elf or an ugly, pudgy Dwarf.
Given that, I think this concept should be extended to gender.
Whatever gender you play, the game orients itself to you - play a female Warden, and Morrigan is a lesbian. Play a male Warden, Alistair is gay.
In case this would "offend" anybody, have "sexual orientation" be a trait you pick at character creation.
Some might say this would take too much resources. Considering how few lines of dialogue are actually involved in the romances (compared to the amount of dialogue in the game as a whole) it shouldn't be much of an issue.
Now, why do this at all? Because it is clear that allowing all players to experience as much content as possible is a good idea. I was very disappointed that I was required to play a Male Warden to romance Morrigan. And as a bisexual male, I found the Zevran "romance" to be an insulting token inclusion, since there was no love, no "romance", with him. Just sex. Nothing approaching the deep sense of connection I felt with Leliana's romance path, for example. I felt my male Warden was closer to Sten than Zevran!
I understand that at least one m/m romance has been hinted at for DA2. I would love some confirmation that it is a proper "romance" and not a fling. I do not need to hear which character it is, just one simple confirmation that it is a loving, real relationship would be nice.
If such an announcement would negatively impact sales, however, I will understand if this is not discussed. BioWareEA is, after all, a business, and as a bisexual man I certainly understand being shunned by certain people, and unfortunately gamers are not perfect and sometimes have prejudices.
Thank you for your time, and if you agree, please show your support in this thread.

[Matchy Pointy]

I don't think every LI should be bisexual, that would be kinda weird, I prefer in that case some LI of all orientations. What I would like though, is the oppurtonity for Hawke of either gender to flirt with all the LIs, even if they say thanks, but I'm not interested.

[Ryzaki]

No. Just....no.



Though the option to flirt with everyone should be there. Just certain characters should turn you down.

[Dave of Canada]

That would be weird.

"Welcome to Thedas, the all-bisexual continent!"

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:24 .

[Isaidlunch]

As much as I would love all LI's to be bi, it takes a lot away from immersion and how defined the characters are. I'm quite happy with just the one M/M LI.



(Offtopic): Zevran's fling turns into a romance if you pursue it through the whole game.

[Atakuma]

You can't just shoehorn it in like that.

[Zjarcal]

Atakuma wrote...

You can't just shoehorn it in like that.

This.

I know that I'm appealing for Merill to be bi, but it's not just as simple as "everyone should be BI!!".

The sexuality of a character has to be woven into their personality, not just tacked on for the sake of fan service. I mean, I suppose it could be possible for everyone to be BI and pull it off as believable if a LOT of work went into it, but that's just not going to happen.

Some people are straight, some people are BI, and some people are gay/les. I can live with that. I just hope the ones I like are BI. 

[Roth]

Oh, good grief. I refuse to play a game where every single character will try to seduce me. Imagine Dog humping your leg everytime you have him in the party. That would be weird.

[Z-Dragon]

i don't think you understand how "quotation marks" work.....

[Matchy Pointy]

Roth wrote...

Oh, good grief. I refuse to play a game where every single character will try to seduce me. Imagine Dog humping your leg everytime you have him in the party. That would be weird.

That's just his way of telling you he loves you

[prazision]

Several of you seem to have missed the point of what I actually said: Since every LI is attracted to the PC no matter what (a noble beautiful Elf or a mean-spirited greedy Dwarf) why not extend this to gender?

LIs would not literally all be "bisexual", but rather, their orientation would match up with your character in your game.

Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?

If you, reading this, are a straight male - are you attracted to every woman you meet, regardless of personality or appearance? Of course not. So if the LI is already capable of being attracted to any PC, what is the logical reason behind not extending that to gender?

[marshalleck]

Bioware needs to go cold turkey on the romances.

[Z-Dragon]

prazision wrote...

Several of you seem to have missed the point of what I actually said: Since every LI is attracted to the PC no matter what (a noble beautiful Elf or a mean-spirited greedy Dwarf) why not extend this to gender?
LIs would not literally all be "bisexual", but rather, their orientation would match up with your character in your game.
Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?
If you, reading this, are a straight male - are you attracted to every woman you meet, regardless of personality or appearance? Of course not. So if the LI is already capable of being attracted to any PC, what is the logical reason behind not extending that to gender?

To that theory I ask why isn't everyone in the world bisexual?

[Zjarcal]

prazision wrote...

Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?

I will say that hearing Alistair say "Maker's breath, you're beautiful!" when playing with a character that looks like this... is pretty jarring.

[commanderVal]

prazision wrote...

I was very disappointed that I was required to play a Male Warden to romance Morrigan. And as a bisexual male, I found the Zevran "romance" to be an insulting token inclusion, since there was no love, no "romance", with him. Just sex. Nothing approaching the deep sense of connection I felt with Leliana's romance path, for example. I felt my male Warden was closer to Sten than Zevran!

Well you can't help but feel closer to Sten cuz the dude is pure awesomeness but I don't understand why you didn't get that vibe from Zevran. I played a game romancing him as a male warden and it seemed to me that Zevran was a character you need to look at more closely to understand. The guy had a harsh life and has had to lie about his emotions more so than Morrigan, who does it out of choice.
To Zevran, the concept of 'love' is alien but you notice how he grows more accustomed to it as the plot goes on.

[Avilia]

Zjarcal wrote...

prazision wrote...

Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?

I will say that hearing Alistair say "Maker's breath, you're beautiful!" when playing with a character that looks like this... is pretty jarring.

Well he was locked up in the Chantry for a looong time ;-)


Sorry I know its OT but I couldn't resist....

[wulfsturm]

prazision wrote...

In case this would "offend" anybody, have "sexual orientation" be a trait you pick at character creation.

To late! You have "offended" me good sir! I demand "satisfaction!" Shall we "duel at dawn?"

Modifié par wulfsturm, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:47 .

[prazision]

Roth wrote...

Oh, good grief. I refuse to play a game where every single character will try to seduce me. Imagine Dog humping your leg everytime you have him in the party. That would be weird.

This is why I proposed including "sexual orientation" in character creation.
And just because someone is romanceable doesn't mean they will "try to seduce you".
As to sexuality being a defining part of their personality - huh? Would Alistair's personality or story be any different if he were gay? It wouldn't even interfere with his reluctance to marry Anora - it would make it even more believable!
When did Morrigan's straightness ever enter into the plot, or her personality? If anything, it was incongruous that she would be attracted to anyone, given her severe misanthropy!

[Lenimph]

Roth wrote...

Oh, good grief. I refuse to play a game where every single character will try to seduce me. Imagine Dog humping your leg everytime you have him in the party. That would be weird.

Don't ever play Fable 2 then. 

[prazision]

Z-Dragon wrote...

prazision wrote...

Several of you seem to have missed the point of what I actually said: Since every LI is attracted to the PC no matter what (a noble beautiful Elf or a mean-spirited greedy Dwarf) why not extend this to gender?
LIs would not literally all be "bisexual", but rather, their orientation would match up with your character in your game.
Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?
If you, reading this, are a straight male - are you attracted to every woman you meet, regardless of personality or appearance? Of course not. So if the LI is already capable of being attracted to any PC, what is the logical reason behind not extending that to gender?

To that theory I ask why isn't everyone in the world bisexual?

Many psychologists believe that everyone is bisexual. Google the "kinsey scale".

[commanderVal]

prazision wrote...

Roth wrote...

Oh, good grief. I refuse to play a game where every single character will try to seduce me. Imagine Dog humping your leg everytime you have him in the party. That would be weird.

This is why I proposed including "sexual orientation" in character creation.
And just because someone is romanceable doesn't mean they will "try to seduce you".
As to sexuality being a defining part of their personality - huh? Would Alistair's personality or story be any different if he were gay? It wouldn't even interfere with his reluctance to marry Anora - it would make it even more believable!
When did Morrigan's straightness ever enter into the plot, or her personality? If anything, it was incongruous that she would be attracted to anyone, given her severe misanthropy!

Morrigan's straightness- though not part of the plot has been referred to in the banter between her and Leliana about dressing her up.
"I would much sooner let Alistair dress me than you."

[wulfsturm]

prazision wrote...
Many psychologists believe that everyone is bisexual. Google the "kinsey scale".

Then those many psychologists are wrong then, because I am most definetly not bisexual.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:51 .

[the_darkness]

Ok really, if that is all your interested in go watch some porn already, your already on the internet so you won't have to go too far out of you way.



Compelling characters need defined traits that define them. Once you make across the board generalizations, you loose what makes a character that character in the first place. I am not opposed to the BI characters in Bioware's games, nor am I opposed to having strictly homosexual characters, but those should be traits that are part of THAT character not the whole cast.

[Bryy_Miller]

prazision wrote...

Perhaps it is too late for this game (I hope not, as there are two full months left and we have hardly any non-alpha footage so far)

We're less than two months if you consider shipping and "going gold". And I don't mean to be rude, but two months is not enough time to rework every single romance to swing both ways. This is why romance mods break the game, because they add something in last minute that was never meant to be there in the initial design. You're talking about something that is so much more than a simple tweak of the code. It's animation, script, voice acting, modeling, rendering. 

We're past alpha, and we are most likely at the very end of beta.