685 réponses à ce sujet

[SeanMurphy2]

I hope it does not get implemented.

I don't like the idea that every romanceable character has to be written as a bisexual whether it suits them or not.

Modifié par SeanMurphy2, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:06 .

[Saibh]

DSerpa wrote...

I almost wish Bioware would stop including romances in their games. Every other ****ing thread is about a romance. Is x romanceable? Is y romanceable? I want z to be romanceable!!! I want a lesbian elf! I want a gay qunari! On and on and ****ing on. It's just a sidequest. Stop treating it like srsbsns.

I agree--and I wish "is this one romancable?" was limited to one thread only, but this is a valid topic. I said earlier, if they cut every aspect of the game we picked apart and obsessed over, they wouldn't make a game.

Modifié par Saibh, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:06 .

[EclipticOlive54]

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I hope it does not get implemented.

I don't like the idea that every romanceable character has to be written as a bisexual whether it suits them or not.

Agreed^_^

[prazision]

It's misleading to say that the inclusion of bisexual females is "progressive", since lesbian overtones are very appealing to straight men. If Leliana had been strictly gay - which would have fit, as the only former LOVE she had in her life was female - that would have been progressive.

Zevran was progressive in theory but in practice was a caricature of the "sex-crazed bi male" myth; sure, there are a lot of guys like him that cruise bars in Castro, but is that really a "progressive" representation of a gay male?

New Vegas, by comparison, had gay characters like Arcade and Veronica who were not stereotypes and did not have "is gay" as the major point of their character.

[DaySeeker]

It's a video game. Whoever is playing it should be able to enjoy the game however they want to. I don't see changing a pronoun or introducing a gender neutral term like, "My love" "Sexy" or some made up term we can take to read as flirtatious, hurts anyone. The characters don't have to any sexuality, the player can make a choice in their own head. No one need be bothered with the one they don't like. Sexuality does not preclude a character from being any other predetermined speciality or personality, so what's the big deal?

It is so strange people come on threads like this and talk about how unimportant romance is, so therefore they must talk about it and make sure to exclude others. If it's not important to you, why are you complaining?  For some it is a chance for inclusion, a chance to be welcomed into a video game, and not be excluded in a role-playing game where they can make a million different choices about their character except who they love.

Beyond this, just because a player is heterosexual does not mean that player has no interest or would never play a character that isn't.

Players are not hurt by inclusion; the game is not hurt by inclusion, so why not? Especially if they are not characters that are only gay or are bisexual. It's not about everyone being bisexual, it's about all the romances being possible to any player, and the freedom to roleplay their character as they like.

Modifié par DaySeeker, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:32 .

[Thiefy]

Ryuukishi wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
How is that anymore janky that a real life straight woman who won't date women but will date a black/ white/asian guy, skinny/fat/muscular, long haired/short hair/beard/clean shaven/glasses/no glasses guy?

I'm sure it's true that there are people in real life who have no preferences when it comes to appearance and physical traits in a potential romantic partner, but many, perhaps most, do have strong preferences. Maybe Morrigan could have been programmed to prefer a human lover and take more convincing to accept an elf or a dwarf, or maybe she could have had a special affinity for blond men. Just some ideas. Again, I'm happy with the way BioWare did it in the context of the game, but I don't think it's especially realistic that Morrigan's attitude boils down to, "I'm only interested in men, but once you clear that one hurdle, I have NO additional preferences."

And that's fine, BioWare is rightly focused on making the game more fun over making it more realistic. In that vein, would it really be that much more unrealistic than it already is, to make all LIs available to both genders. I think it's a valid question to ask.

Morrigan is attracted to power and the warden always has that, if not epitomizes that. That is more or less her only other stipulation, aside from being male. Sure there are plenty of girls that may prefer black guys over white guys or muscular guys over skinny guys, but you know a lot more people prefer someone who is in shape instead of sticking to more restrictive criteria. It's the new millenium, and I don't know about you but I notice most people have a lot more open mind about dating outside of their ethinicity/religion/culture, and I've always seen DAO and several of it's characters taking on several of these 'modern' ideas despite a medevil setting.

And yes I do think it would take away from her character, just like I think it would take away from Leliana's character if Marjorline was male. Not saying that the question isn't valid either - but you've got several good and valid responses to why it's a bad idea hardly any of which have really been flammatory.

What I really find hard to believe is that for those who are championing this idea completely ignore the fact that it's not about us "hating on gays", as a few have implied but it's more about the writing process and respecting someone else's work. If there was infact a toggle switch or every LI was coded bisexual, the romance aspect would feel more cheapened and basically gimmeckie - not because "ew, it's gay/bi", because they weren't really made with anyone in mind and was just kind of thrown out there in hopes it would make a broad appeal to people.

If I could equate it to anything it's like having a really, really good cook hand bake you a triple fudge, mint carrot birthday cake with coconut shavings ontop versus having that same person not use their skill and go the easy route and buy you a vanilla cake with vanilla icing the next year

[mopotter]

I'd rather not have this. While I'd really like 6 possible combinations straight, gay, lesbian good, evil, including good/evil attitude, I would be quite happy with 2 males - 1 straight, 1 not and 2 female - 1 straight, 1 not and be able to change their attitudes towards good and evil.



I'd really rather have definite sexual preferences.

[prazision]

I agree that changing Sten's opinion of humans/elves/dwarves was a more well-written interaction than any of the romances, but there's no reason that the romances can't be well-written and have more depth than they have in recent BioWareEA games (such as how you could experience a character's entire romance path in one or two camp visits).

[Xayasha]

I would dislike that a lot... it doesn't make sense. I know it's a fantasy world, but it doesn't mean that every real life standards we know should be thrown out of the window.



Also, it would take away something that defines a character, because your sexual orientation is an important part of who you are, and having to write everyone as possible bisexuals would certainly hurt their intended personality. And I'd much rather have interesting, diversified and deeply written characters than a bisexual-wonderland.

[lovgreno]

To OP: Sounds practical.

[Chuvvy]

Ryzaki wrote...

No. Just....no.

Though the option to flirt with everyone should be there. Just certain characters should turn you down.

[prazision]

People keep saying that sexuality "defines your personality" but I just don't get that. I have friends of every sexuality but their sexual preference has no bearing on their personality or how they act, unless we're specifically talking about sex or love. If sexual preference had so much bearing on personality, that would mean that people who claim to have "gaydar" are right and you can "just tell" when people are gay, which is ignorant, insulting and just plain wrong.

Speaking for myself, I'd say most of my casual acquaintances (ie not "close friends" but people I see out and talk to) have no idea what my sexual preference is, because why would that be something that influences, say, my taste in music, books, films, my political views, my spiritual beliefs, or anything else that people talk about? Why would sexual preference influence one's sense of humor or style of speaking?

[Alyka]

Felfenix wrote...

Not every character is romanceable, regardless of orientation, and that adds a nice bit of realism, IMO, to have someone you may want but doesn't want you back. I think it adds a bit of realism as well that there are some people who you may want but can't have due to gender/orientation. However, I think LIs who you can't be with due to their being straight, should still have dialog in reaction to your coming onto them, acknowledging it and perhaps explaining they don't swing that way.

I agree.
Alistair doesn't want to marry Anora because A) She would take over and Alistair would have no say in decisions She was married to his dead brother, so he would be marrying his sister-in-law and C) He would much rather marry someone he loves rather than someone he doesn't like.I could see how it would fit in if he were gay, but that's not the only reason why he doesn't want to marry her.

Zevran's bisexuality is what defined him (to a certain degree) because he is an assassin and he even explains that he had to do some things he didn't want to, to finish his contracts.And he grew up in a ****house so sex and violence is all he knows.Getting close to someone and even loving them puts them in danger if anyone were to seek him out and exact revenge.Eventually his opinion changes because of the Warden.
Granted, I would've liked to romance Sten or had my male Warden romance Alistair but the "everyone is bi" thing would just be banal.

Xayasha wrote...
 And I'd much rather have interesting, diversified and deeply written characters than a bisexual-wonderland.

And this.

Modifié par Alyka, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:16 .

[Alyka]

prazision wrote...

People keep saying that sexuality "defines your personality" but I just don't get that. I have friends of every sexuality but their sexual preference has no bearing on their personality or how they act, unless we're specifically talking about sex or love. If sexual preference had so much bearing on personality, that would mean that people who claim to have "gaydar" are right and you can "just tell" when people are gay, which is ignorant, insulting and just plain wrong.
Speaking for myself, I'd say most of my casual acquaintances (ie not "close friends" but people I see out and talk to) have no idea what my sexual preference is, because why would that be something that influences, say, my taste in music, books, films, my political views, my spiritual beliefs, or anything else that people talk about? Why would sexual preference influence one's sense of humor or style of speaking?

It may not influence your opinions or beliefs, but others may let their preference influence themselves.Not all, some.To me, it's defining when decisions are made based on it or a person makes it blatantly obvious all the time.
Like with Zevran;he had to fulfill some contracts by seducing the same sex.It defines him a bit because he incorporates it into his work.Does that make him a horrible person? No.Does the killing make him a horrible person? That's debatable.hehe

EDIT:

prazision wrote...
because why would that be something that
influences, say, my taste in music, books, films, my political views, my
spiritual beliefs, or anything else that people talk about?

You made this thread and gave a suggestion.Now the question you have to ask yourself is: Did your preference influence the decision to make it?
IMO, every minute detail down to what fabric softener a person uses is what defines him or her.

Modifié par Alyka, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:58 .

[AlexXIV]

No, because romances are not that important. I am starting to think people who say Bioware shouldn't do any romances for a while are right, this is just ridiculous. Get out, find a girl or something. Or if you got one already, find a better one. Anything that makes you stop thinking with your penis.

[Thiefy]

prazision wrote...

People keep saying that sexuality "defines your personality" but I just don't get that. I have friends of every sexuality but their sexual preference has no bearing on their personality or how they act, unless we're specifically talking about sex or love. If sexual preference had so much bearing on personality, that would mean that people who claim to have "gaydar" are right and you can "just tell" when people are gay, which is ignorant, insulting and just plain wrong.
Speaking for myself, I'd say most of my casual acquaintances (ie not "close friends" but people I see out and talk to) have no idea what my sexual preference is, because why would that be something that influences, say, my taste in music, books, films, my political views, my spiritual beliefs, or anything else that people talk about? Why would sexual preference influence one's sense of humor or style of speaking?

We ARE talking specifically about sex and love, and your sexuality does define parts of that. As politically incorrect as this may sound, there are also types of music that gay men tend to gravitate towards to that straight men do not. furthermore, sexuality can influence political views as well. it's highly unlikely that a gay man will be against gay marriage, or gays serving in the military, for instance.

of course these are all broad generalizations, and not meant as personal attacks so please don't think that. as far as people being able to "just tell", well why can't they? because you don't like it? i think you are taking this whole thing a little too personally. is it just straight people that shouldn't be able to do that or all people? because i have plenty of lesbian friends who can "just tell" if another woman is a lesbian or not, without having met them. i have one that goes so far as to point out other women and say "she's one. if she isn't now, she's going to be later on, even if she doesn't know it. she just has a look and i can tell." i don't see why people thinking you "look gay/lesbian" is a bad thing - how is it any different from someone saying you look really smart? or you look like a basketball player?

but bringing this back on topic, since we ARE talking about sex and love, can i just point out my first post already breached this subject? you kow, the one about the different kinds of love. Sexuality will influence "Eros" or romance, sexual love and attraction, while the other types of love are not influenced by it at all (phileo/friendship for example). So you actually just kind proved my point i made much earlier in the thread.

[Andferne]

EclipticOlive54 wrote...

SeanMurphy2 wrote...

I hope it does not get implemented.

I don't like the idea that every romanceable character has to be written as a bisexual whether it suits them or not.

Agreed^_^

This

[TheDarklings]

DSerpa wrote...

I almost wish Bioware would stop including romances in their games. Every other ****ing thread is about a romance. Is x romanceable? Is y romanceable? I want z to be romanceable!!! I want a lesbian elf! I want a gay qunari! On and on and ****ing on. It's just a sidequest. Stop treating it like srsbsns.

Bioware includes romances in its games. When a game's release is pending, people like to come together on the forums and speculate. These topics are popular, and generate lots of attention. Therefore, (you're saying) Bioware should exclude romances from its games? Come on.

No one's being forced to read and comment on romance-related threads (and posters are nice enough to warn you in the topic that it's romance related, too!).

ON TOPIC,

Yes, it is true that in the Real World there are people of every appearance and disposition with every sexual orientation. All things are *possible*. That doesn't mean tacking on freeform sexual orientation would make for a better *story* (which is what this is in the end).

Perhaps the romance in DA:O would have been more believable if they were only available if your character was good looking according to a standard set by a specific characters (i.e. Morrigan saying, "Humans and elves are just disgusting. Blonde, tattooed, bearded dwarves, on the other hand..."), but I don't think it hurt ("Really, Alistair? You don't mind my bald head and turquoise eyeshadow? You think I'm beautiful? Oh good.").

There's compromise and trade-off in everything. So we give up a few characters being attracted to what's under our armor and in exchange receive characters with more developed, specific, and engaging content. Looks like a fair trade to me. 

[goldenangle]

NO I would not like a bisexual P>C> in fact I can tell my P>C> dose not like Lileana at all,and I wsill not have her romance her at all I like my P,C, just the way she is

[prazision]

AlexXIV wrote...

No, because romances are not that important. I am starting to think people who say Bioware shouldn't do any romances for a while are right, this is just ridiculous. Get out, find a girl or something. Or if you got one already, find a better one. Anything that makes you stop thinking with your penis.

Desiring meaningful romantic interactions (if romances are to be included and the focus of the games is very much on character interaction) is not "thinking with my penis". Desiring a compelling romantic arc has nothing to do with sex. I do have a girlfriend, in fact have had dozens of boyfriends and girlfriends since I started dating. That's irrelevant and that kind of argument is the most juvenile and uninformed kind of internet argument that has ever existed - it's just a variation on "get a life", when in fact you've no clue how much or little of "a life" I have. Calling it a strawman would be giving it too much credit.

[Xayasha]

IMO, every minute detail down to what fabric softener a person uses is what defines him or her.

This. 

[AlexXIV]

prazision wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

No, because romances are not that important. I am starting to think people who say Bioware shouldn't do any romances for a while are right, this is just ridiculous. Get out, find a girl or something. Or if you got one already, find a better one. Anything that makes you stop thinking with your penis.

Desiring meaningful romantic interactions (if romances are to be included and the focus of the games is very much on character interaction) is not "thinking with my penis". Desiring a compelling romantic arc has nothing to do with sex. I do have a girlfriend, in fact have had dozens of boyfriends and girlfriends since I started dating. That's irrelevant and that kind of argument is the most juvenile and uninformed kind of internet argument that has ever existed - it's just a variation on "get a life", when in fact you've no clue how much or little of "a life" I have. Calling it a strawman would be giving it too much credit.

Yeah really. You just want more. And you assume it is easy as that. Making more, deeper romances. Since they are so important and Bioware has endless ressources. And I am the one who is childish? Maybe you should reconsider what is important in a game for you. You may want to play The Witcher and look how sex/relationships are handled there, not to mention that you couldn't even play a female character. And when you have done that you can come back and complain a bit more that you don't get enough options in Bioware games.

[prazision]

Alex, you have clearly not read even half my posts in this thread, because if you had then none of what you just said would even make sense.

If you're to engage in this discussion, I'll wait until you have.

[AlexXIV]

No I have not read half of them. And I won't because the answer is no. If you think this thread is gonna make David and his team to rewrite the LIs, not to mention all the other effort (aka voice actors, animations) then you are sort of kidding yourself. Every LI in DA2 being bisexual is not going to happen, and if it would happen in any future Bioware game then only if there are just one or two LIs.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:06 .