685 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

Praz,



If you want to talk about same sex romance in BioWare games, there are plenty of threads for that. Your original post was about DA2 specifically. Many people have told you the answer to what you are proposing, including myself and Alex here.

[prazision]

I respect your right to remain completely ignorant of what my proposals have been and still post. I appreciate that you admitted to not even reading the thread so that people can know your opinion is uninformed.

[AlexXIV]

prazision wrote...

I respect your right to remain completely ignorant of what my proposals have been and still post. I appreciate that you admitted to not even reading the thread so that people can know your opinion is uninformed.

Great thanks.

[prazision]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Praz,



If you want to talk about same sex romance in BioWare games, there are plenty of threads for that. Your original post was about DA2 specifically. Many people have told you the answer to what you are proposing, including myself and Alex here.

It is others (who have clearly not actually read all the thread) who keep derailing it into more general discussions (such as with helpful lines as "go to a gay bar" and "stop thinking with your penis").
Disagreeing with me would be a lot more effective if done with a comprehensive knowledge of the thread up to this point and a willingness to stick to the core proposition, as well as a willingness to remain civil and not resorting to flaming.

[AdamNW]

Absolutely not. But I would like the gay romance to be better than the straight one x_X

[prazision]

DSerpa wrote...

prazision wrote...

I respect your right to remain completely ignorant of what my proposals have been and still post. I appreciate that you admitted to not even reading the thread so that people can know your opinion is uninformed.

Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. Most of the people who have posted in this thread have said as much. Lashing out at people who disagree with you will not change the situation.

Pro-tip: No one reads the entirety of an 11 page thread. They skim the first few posts and the last few posts, then post the opinion they formed from reading the thread title.

I am not "lashing out"; has anything I said been as rude as "stop thinking with your penis"?
And just because that may be how people read/react to threads does not make it right. If they've no wish to engage in the discussion with full knowledge of the issues raised, they can simply refrain from posting.

[panamakira]

Zjarcal wrote...

prazision wrote...

Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?

I will say that hearing Alistair say "Maker's breath, you're beautiful!" when playing with a character that looks like this... is pretty jarring.

haha~ yeah about that.......wow. It is a game after all~

Modifié par panamakira, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:04 .

[SirGladiator]

I think ultimately some people simply define things differently than other people. For example, people seem to define Leliana as bisexual, since she's romancable by both Wardens, but if you've actually played the game (particularly if you played as a female) you'd probably say its more accurate to call her a lesbian who is romancable by male wardens too. Thats as it should be. I dont care whether you call Isbella, Aveline, or Merrill (the potential female LIs as best we know them right now) straight, bi, or lesbian, it would be dumb for their romances not to be available to Male Hawke, or Lady Hawke, because the romances are for the people who enjoy them, which obviously includes male and female alike. If you enjoy them you should be able to play them, if you don't you should be able to avoid playing them. Folks sometimes make this issue seem complex, but its really just that simple.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

SirGladiator wrote...

I think ultimately some people simply define things differently than other people. For example, people seem to define Leliana as bisexual, since she's romancable by both Wardens, but if you've actually played the game (particularly if you played as a female) you'd probably say its more accurate to call her a lesbian who is romancable by male wardens too. Thats as it should be. I dont care whether you call Isbella, Aveline, or Merrill (the potential female LIs as best we know them right now) straight, bi, or lesbian, it would be dumb for their romances not to be available to Male Hawke, or Lady Hawke, because the romances are for the people who enjoy them, which obviously includes male and female alike. If you enjoy them you should be able to play them, if you don't you should be able to avoid playing them. Folks sometimes make this issue seem complex, but its really just that simple.

no is not

1) this isnt a dating sim romance is the last thing on mind (no wonder prestley gets pissed at this kind of topics)
2) not everyone is bisexual in real life
3) they are defined not everyone should be romanced life is full of dissapointment so is better to accept not everyone likes to eat fishticks and dip nuggets in bbq:police:

[AlanC9]

prazision wrote...
Disagreeing with me would be a lot more effective if done with a comprehensive knowledge of the thread up to this point and a willingness to stick to the core proposition, as well as a willingness to remain civil and not resorting to flaming.

Sure, but having read the whole thread -- mostly for rubbernecking purposes -- I'm not at all shocked that people are refusing to engage with your idea. There's no real need to be effective at disagreeing with you; your idea is not only hugely unpopular but has been explicitly rejected by Bio writers in other contexts, which means that the likelihood of anything like this being adopted is zero.

Edit: I've got nothing against quixotic proposals -- I'll plug timed quests to anyone who will listen. But I don't expect much from a thread devoted to the topic.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:28 .

[Chibi Elemental]

I personally think this is a terrible idea, it only really works if it makes sense for the character. Story in my opinion and character is whats important to me. Makeing everyone have to be a particular line of thinking just dosn't make sense.



My point is this is unless we landed in a magical land where this would be possible biowares way of doing things so far has been good enough haveing one character thats both, though haveing more availible options would be nice then the 3 or 4 we usually get, heck I would even like none party love interests, just as long as they have enough screen time for important character devolopments.

[AlexXIV]

Perhaps it is too late for this game (I hope not, as there are two full months left and we have hardly any non-alpha footage so far) but hear me out:

It's too late, but anyway.

1. The Basic Approach.
In BioWare games, no matter what your PC's appearance or personality is, LIs (of the "appropriate" gender) will fall in love with you.

Also bisexuals of any gender. Point?

This establishes, quote strongly, that the intent behind the romances is that the PC is "irresistable" - Leliana will fall in love with you if you're a svelt, gorgeous Elf or an ugly, pudgy Dwarf.

That's because they can't make the game decide whether your avatar is beautiful, or what means beautiful for an npc.

Given that, I think this concept should be extended to gender.

No.

Whatever gender you play, the game orients itself to you - play a female Warden, and Morrigan is a lesbian. Play a male Warden, Alistair is gay.
In case this would "offend" anybody, have "sexual orientation" be a trait you pick at character creation.
Some might say this would take too much resources. Considering how few lines of dialogue are actually involved in the romances (compared to the amount of dialogue in the game as a whole) it shouldn't be much of an issue.

If you do it right it will use alot of ressources, just think about every situation you are expicitly addressed a male or female, or think about Morrigan, she would have to know she cannot be pregnant with a female companion. Either you keep most dialogues 'neutral' regarding to gender or you make one of each. And if you are suggesting simplified dialogues just to have the option to get intimate then we don't need to talk further do we?

Now, why do this at all? Because it is clear that allowing all players to experience as much content as possible is a good idea.
 
Agreed, though there is other content aside from romances. I don't see why romances should be superiour content to gameplay, combat, non-romance story, etc.


I was very disappointed that I was required to play a Male Warden to romance Morrigan.

Morrigan mates you to get a child from you. Why would she mate a female? To have a dependency she abhores just so you can have a sexy time? You ignore her personality already just in favor of having a F/F relationship with her

And as a bisexual male, I found the Zevran "romance" to be an insulting token inclusion, since there was no love, no "romance", with him. Just sex. Nothing approaching the deep sense of connection I felt with Leliana's romance path, for example.
 
Well you are a heterosexual male, what do you expect to 'feel' about Zevran?

I felt my male Warden was closer to Sten than Zevran!

Because you respect Sten as a friend. You can feel the same for Zevran if you don't try to lay him despite the fact that you are a hetero.

I understand that at least one m/m romance has been hinted at for DA2. I would love some confirmation that it is a proper "romance" and not a fling. I do not need to hear which character it is, just one simple confirmation that it is a loving, real relationship would be nice.
If such an announcement would negatively impact sales, however, I will understand if this is not discussed. BioWareEA is, after all, a business, and as a bisexual man I certainly understand being shunned by certain people, and unfortunately gamers are not perfect and sometimes have prejudices.
Thank you for your time, and if you agree, please show your support in this thread.

What is a proper romance and why should it have a negative impact on sales? People want different things and they will be disappointed if what they want is not in the game in favor of something they don't care about. For example people who are not interested in the romances will disappointed if the rest of the game suffers because of too many romance options.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:34 .

[Faerillis]

I absolutely disagree with the OP. It is fantastic that Bioware has adopted such an open view of sexual orientation and sexuality. These are topics that only further Video Games as an artistic medium. That is why they shouldn't do this.
Straight men have not just not met the right guy and gay men have not just not met the right woman. Same thing for women. To inherintly undermine this by letting the player character decide the sexuality, or to have all characters being intrinsically bisexual... Just no.
However, allowing the main character to be able to try and romance any character (not that they would touch that taboo with a ten foot pole but including Bethany and Carver) WOULD be interesting and could help develop both characters.

[AlanC9]

AlexXIV wrote...

And as a bisexual male, I found the Zevran "romance" to be an insulting token inclusion, since there was no love, no "romance", with him. Just sex. Nothing approaching the deep sense of connection I felt with Leliana's romance path, for example.
 
Well you are a heterosexual male, what do you expect to 'feel' about Zevran?

Alex, you may want to reread this.

prazision's point there is obviously nonsense, but if you're going to quote it, read it.

Edit: not obvious to him, though, so I guess I should explain.

You've got a problem with the Zevran romance, eh? Nothing wrong with that. Not every character appeals to every player; even if that was possible it wouldn't be desirable. And since you don't care for Zevran, you're SOL for m-m romances in DAO since he's the only one.

But what does you being a bisexual male have to do with anything? Zevran isn't there to represent you, or to insult you. He's there to be Zevran.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:44 .

[AlexXIV]

AlanC9 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

And as a bisexual male, I found the Zevran "romance" to be an insulting token inclusion, since there was no love, no "romance", with him. Just sex. Nothing approaching the deep sense of connection I felt with Leliana's romance path, for example.
 
Well you are a heterosexual male, what do you expect to 'feel' about Zevran?

Alex, you may want to reread this.

prazision's point there is obviously nonsense, but if you're going to quote it, read it.

I didn't do the Zevran romance with my male, so I am not exactly sure what he is talking about. If you are talking about the bisexual, then I have to say I assumed he meant his Warden, not himself irl.

[AlanC9]

I assumed it was himself or finding Zevran insulting would be completely irrational, as opposed to just being a worthless argument.

Edit: well, he's not really making an argument there, he's just sort of feeling hurt, and letting that confuse him into thinking that Zevran is a "token."

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:50 .

[AngelicMachinery]

I enjoy SS content, and I do not approve of this idea the everyone is bisexual trope is laughably unbelievable particularly in a medieval setting. I would prefer if the romances remained quality instead of simply slapping them together haphazardly without respecting predefined character attributes.

[AlexXIV]

Well it is kinda useless for the discussion, and I don't know how the male Zevran romance ends. The female one ended pretty good though. If that's not the case with the male then it is at least a point for saying it is not a proper one or at least worse than the female.

[Tietj]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well it is kinda useless for the discussion, and I don't know how the male Zevran romance ends. The female one ended pretty good though. If that's not the case with the male then it is at least a point for saying it is not a proper one or at least worse than the female.

Why would you be criticizing a particular romance if you've never played it through to the end?  I've played through the m/m Zevran romance and it is more than just sex; once his walls are down he does fall in love with you.  Even if you don't feel like replaying the game to find out, that info is easily found on the Wikia.

[AlexXIV]

Tietj wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well it is kinda useless for the discussion, and I don't know how the male Zevran romance ends. The female one ended pretty good though. If that's not the case with the male then it is at least a point for saying it is not a proper one or at least worse than the female.

Why would you be criticizing a particular romance if you've never played it through to the end?  I've played through the m/m Zevran romance and it is more than just sex; once his walls are down he does fall in love with you.  Even if you don't feel like replaying the game to find out, that info is easily found on the Wikia.

Well good thing I didn't criticize it then.

[Tietj]

AlexXIV wrote...

Tietj wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well it is kinda useless for the discussion, and I don't know how the male Zevran romance ends. The female one ended pretty good though. If that's not the case with the male then it is at least a point for saying it is not a proper one or at least worse than the female.

Why would you be criticizing a particular romance if you've never played it through to the end?  I've played through the m/m Zevran romance and it is more than just sex; once his walls are down he does fall in love with you.  Even if you don't feel like replaying the game to find out, that info is easily found on the Wikia.

Well good thing I didn't criticize it then.

Oops!  Sorry, I got confused with all the quotes and thought you were saying something when it was actually someone else.  My bad.

[AlanC9]

Methinks the OP should handle that one, but we are getting a bit off-topic

[Greenishio]

Hmm, I like the idea. I do believe sexuality is much more fluid and unpredictable than most people think. The freedom to pursue a LI regardless of PC's gender sounds good in concept, but the limitation of money and resources would very likely result in both the heterosexual and homosexual romance being very similar...if so, the writers would need to keep most of the romance dialogue + action applicable to both genders, which would severely limit their creative freedom. I very much prefer it when the PC's gender is acknowledged, reacted to, and incorporated into the romance.

Making the LIs generally reacting to both genders the same way would feel too much like taking the aspect of PC's gender out of the equation. This is just my taste, but it is more satisfying when issues, barriers, and conflicts stemmed from genders exist in the game, but could be overcome with effort. I want to see a LI struggles with sexual identiy; I want to see a LI reacting really badly to PC's flirt because of his/her gender; I want to see a LI being extremely difficult to pursue because of PC's gender. So ideally, if every LIs can be pursued by both genders, I would like to see significant differences between straight and same sex romance (unless a LI identifies as bi regardless of the PC's gender like Zev.)

Even if Bioware could afford the money/resources/time to write two distinct romances for every LI, there is the problem of player reaction. There is the significant group of less-than-open-minded folks who would react to this badly. A game can take some risks, but probably not a colossal one like this, unfortunately. (I have a feeling the concept of almost all LIs being available to both genders in a mainstream game may be too forward for our time right now... maybe in ten years...)