685 réponses à ce sujet

[mpdx]

As awesome as that may be for me, that is completely infeasible. Not everyone is bisexual and even if they are, they may still have preferences. I can understand if one person in each sex is bisexual but everyone as a potential love interest is just unrealistic.



As for romancing Zevran (and to an extent, Leliana), the relationship does end romantically regardless of both sex, in fact both him and Leliana remain faithful to the Warden to the end unlike Alistair (unless hardened or a Human Noble) or Morrigan (unless you download Witch Hunt).



Also a little off topic but is it me or is every companion (except for Bethany/Carver for obvious reasons and Sebastian due to his download status) going to be a potential love interest?

[prazision]

mpdx wrote...

As awesome as that may be for me, that is completely infeasible. Not everyone is bisexual and even if they are, they may still have preferences. I can understand if one person in each sex is bisexual but everyone as a potential love interest is just unrealistic.



As for romancing Zevran (and to an extent, Leliana), the relationship does end romantically regardless of both sex, in fact both him and Leliana remain faithful to the Warden to the end unlike Alistair (unless hardened or a Human Noble) or Morrigan (unless you download Witch Hunt).



Also a little off topic but is it me or is every companion (except for Bethany/Carver for obvious reasons and Sebastian due to his download status) going to be a potential love interest?

Well, that's rather my point, that in BioWareEA games LIs don't have "preferences". None of them care what you look like, and few of them care what you act like. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything in Origins which lowered Zevran's approval, aside from outright turning him down. He didn't care how naughty or nice you were, what race you were, what you looked like... etc. The same is true of LIs in every of their games to a greater or lesser extent. That's the entire basis of my OP.

[Cutlasskiwi]

prazision wrote...

mpdx wrote...

As awesome as that may be for me, that is completely infeasible. Not everyone is bisexual and even if they are, they may still have preferences. I can understand if one person in each sex is bisexual but everyone as a potential love interest is just unrealistic.

As for romancing Zevran (and to an extent, Leliana), the relationship does end romantically regardless of both sex, in fact both him and Leliana remain faithful to the Warden to the end unlike Alistair (unless hardened or a Human Noble) or Morrigan (unless you download Witch Hunt).

Also a little off topic but is it me or is every companion (except for Bethany/Carver for obvious reasons and Sebastian due to his download status) going to be a potential love interest?

Well, that's rather my point, that in BioWareEA games LIs don't have "preferences". None of them care what you look like, and few of them care what you act like. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything in Origins which lowered Zevran's approval, aside from outright turning him down. He didn't care how naughty or nice you were, what race you were, what you looked like... etc. The same is true of LIs in every of their games to a greater or lesser extent. That's the entire basis of my OP.

You keep pointing out that LIs don't care about looks. Do you think that's a valid point? To me it isn't as I don't see any way to implement that in a game. Not considering the gifts, I would say every LI in DAO cares about how you act. At least things they witness. 

[Matchy Pointy]

prazision wrote...

mpdx wrote...

As awesome as that may be for me, that is completely infeasible. Not everyone is bisexual and even if they are, they may still have preferences. I can understand if one person in each sex is bisexual but everyone as a potential love interest is just unrealistic.

As for romancing Zevran (and to an extent, Leliana), the relationship does end romantically regardless of both sex, in fact both him and Leliana remain faithful to the Warden to the end unlike Alistair (unless hardened or a Human Noble) or Morrigan (unless you download Witch Hunt).

Also a little off topic but is it me or is every companion (except for Bethany/Carver for obvious reasons and Sebastian due to his download status) going to be a potential love interest?

Well, that's rather my point, that in BioWareEA games LIs don't have "preferences". None of them care what you look like, and few of them care what you act like. I'm having a hard time thinking of anything in Origins which lowered Zevran's approval, aside from outright turning him down. He didn't care how naughty or nice you were, what race you were, what you looked like... etc. The same is true of LIs in every of their games to a greater or lesser extent. That's the entire basis of my OP.

I've done plenty of things in the game which lowered Zevran's approval...

Modifié par Matchy Pointy, 13 janvier 2011 - 12:04 .

[Naitaka]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

I've done plenty of things in the game which lowered Zevran's approval...

Warden: "Hey! Let's just kill all the dalish for the heck of it!"

Zav: "...."

or

Warden: "Oooo look at that silly city elf locked in Arl of Denerim's dungeon! Let's leave him and free that male chauvinistic pig of nobleman trash instead!"

Zav:  *Facepalm*

[Matchy Pointy]

Naitaka wrote...

Matchy Pointy wrote...

I've done plenty of things in the game which lowered Zevran's approval...

Warden: "Hey! Let's just kill all the dalish for the heck of it!"

Zav: "...."

or

Warden: "Oooo look at that silly city elf locked in Arl of Denerim's dungeon! Let's leave him and free that male chauvinistic pig of nobleman trash instead!"

Zav:  *Facepalm*

Well, I seem to recall a few others as well, but it's been quite some while since I played through the game now

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

That's because they can't make the game decide whether your avatar is beautiful

Is't it what stats in the character screen are meant for? With rpg mechanics being regressed mostly for combat, someone could still love a mage with MAG:50 more that a guy with MAG:10.

[StingingVelvet]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

I don't think every LI should be bisexual, that would be kinda weird, I prefer in that case some LI of all orientations. What I would like though, is the oppurtonity for Hawke of either gender to flirt with all the LIs, even if they say thanks, but I'm not interested.

Nailed it on the first reponse.  Making every character bisexual would reek of game, not actual story and characters.  A character should be gay or bi if it fits that character, and not be if it doesn't.  It should also not be talked about much unless you probe for information, same with sex in general really.  Look at how New Vegas does it... two of the companions in that game are gay but you wouldn't know it unless you asked them about their lives and romantic interests.

Also, the topic kind of reeks of that mindset where everything in the game should be able to be done with any player character, which I just disagree with on a fundamental level.  Player decisions in character creation and the game itself should limit actions that player can do, which adds to immersion, roleplaying and replayability.

[AlexXIV]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

That's because they can't make the game decide whether your avatar is beautiful

Is't it what stats in the character screen are meant for? With rpg mechanics being regressed mostly for combat, someone could still love a mage with MAG:50 more that a guy with MAG:10.

Old AD&D had charisma as a stat, and fallout does too. If anything Bioware should change that so people can actually choose whether their protagonist is recognized good looking, average, or ugly. That would make alot more sense to me since it can also be used outside of romances as in how people react to your pc. That would make alot more sense to me than everyone being bisexual.

[thedistortedchild]

A character should be gay or bi if it fits that character, and not be if it doesn't. 

Oh,so what kind of character should be gay then? Surely only flamboyantly feminine male character fits 'a gay'.
I don't think orientation matters to the character's personality in the least. I'm not trying to attack you, I was just a little offended by this sentence. 

Modifié par thedistortedchild, 13 janvier 2011 - 12:56 .

[Korva]

The OP makes a very good point, actually. Why would it be unrealistic or take something away from an NPC if she or he would fall for a PC of either gender as easily, casually and unquestioningly as they currently fall for the PC regardless of species, appearance and even behavior?

Personally, I would restrict romances more -- a lot more. I would make gender, species, appearance, personality and conduct all equally important so if a PC does not fit a given NPCs very clearly defined tastes, well, that's just how it goes, better luck next time. It would make the NPCs less of a malleable and hollow commodity and more "real" as people. IMO.

I doubt many people will like that approach, but I am curious: why should gender be the only restriction?

[StingingVelvet]

thedistortedchild wrote...

A character should be gay or bi if it fits that character, and not be if it doesn't. 

Oh,so what kind of character should be gay then? Surely only flamboyantly feminine male character fits 'a gay'.
I don't think orientation matters to the character's personality in the least. I'm not trying to attack you, I was just a little offended by this sentence. 

Offended?  By what?  Let me put it a different way... a character should be gay or bi if the designer wanted them to be that.  It should only be done when it fits the character, i.e. when the character is designed to be that.

Man, people get offended by anything.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

Oh,so what kind of character should be gay then?

Outside of DAO, there are cultures where being gay is't something that should be, dunno, defended?
For example, a roman patrician and his young student can both be gay and heterosexual player can't just sniff at that. If a setting is written good, going into gay/lesbian characters so they are convincing is't such a problem.

Old AD&D had charisma as a stat, and fallout does too

Dreams.. dreams...

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:23 .

[Naitaka]

Korva wrote...

The OP makes a very good point, actually. Why would it be unrealistic or take something away from an NPC if she or he would fall for a PC of either gender as easily, casually and unquestioningly as they currently fall for the PC regardless of species, appearance and even behavior?

Personally, I would restrict romances more -- a lot more. I would make gender, species, appearance, personality and conduct all equally important so if a PC does not fit a given NPCs very clearly defined tastes, well, that's just how it goes, better luck next time. It would make the NPCs less of a malleable and hollow commodity and more "real" as people. IMO.

I doubt many people will like that approach, but I am curious: why should gender be the only restriction?

I think Korva's idea is brilliant, and the fact that DA2 is moving away from the Approval system is a step in the right direction in my opinion. I'd like the romance to be much more unpredictable and react to what you do or not do in the main quest more. I've always thought Bioware romance to be much too transparent to the point that it kills any sense of drama it might have had otherwise. Imho, romance should be as much a "game" as the rest of the game, not just a multiple choice test with obvious answers.

Modifié par Naitaka, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:33 .

[Korva]

Amen. Giving the "obvious answers" in the right moment and pelting your "LI" with junk when their approval drops too much shouldn't outweigh all the potentially off-putting actions and choices the player makes. Put your money where your mouth is, actions speak louder than words and all that.

I mean, sure, it happen in the real world as well. "Here honey, have a gift and some sexy time, and I promise I won't do it again, and I really really mean in this time (hehe)". But if such behavior is in a game it should hardly be considered a "romance" or "love" but plain, flat-out exploitation.

Modifié par Korva, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:00 .

[Ecaiki]

It's interesting that people are summing sexuality up as "the gender of the person I'm ****ing".  While it's true that sexuality is an important part of our personalities, the actual gender of the person involved is such an insignificant part it's almost negligible.

Liable****sman wrote...

What!?

Okay, you think Stens personality fits one who is ******- or bisexual?

Oghren strikes you as a bisexual?

I wasn't aware all gay men fall within a narrow personality type, thanks for the heads up.  Or perhaps you're implying that gay men can't be masculine, I can't decide if this or the former is more insulting.

Characters are different. Oghren is written as a belching, alcoholic dwarf. He isn't bisexual.
Zevran is written like a flamboyant sexmaniac, he is bisexual.

So the second one, how unfortunate.

I find it sad that people think you need to have a certain personality to be bi or gay.  Do you really believe that an abusive jerk who uses his partners then disgards them will really be so different if it's men instead of women?

Modifié par Ecaiki, 13 janvier 2011 - 03:09 .

[DraCZeQQ]

well lets hope that Merrill is F/F option =)

[Thestral]

mpdx wrote...

As for romancing Zevran (and to an extent, Leliana), the relationship does end romantically regardless of both sex, in fact both him and Leliana remain faithful to the Warden to the end unlike Alistair (unless hardened or a Human Noble) or Morrigan (unless you download Witch Hunt).

Unhardened Alistair is faithful if you don't make him King, afaik.

[Nighteye2]

Nice idea, but impractical. It takes too much resources. Sexual orientation is one of the defining attributes for a character. If you wanted to split the bisexual Alistair into a gay Alistair and a straight Alistair, you basically end up with 2 Alistairs to write and voice. Sure, they may be 95% the same - but every part of every conversation and even how the lines are delivered in VO would have to be tweaked and adjusted to make his sexual orientation believable.



It'd be easier to have dedicated gay and lesbian NPCs, as well as straight and bisexual ones.

[AngelicMachinery]

I know! Lets have a hawtness stat.

[KyleOrdrum]

I agree with the op that it's a little rediculous how everyone chases after you. It didn't bother me with zevran because well...have you talked to him? It didn't bother me when I was a male with morrigan because she has ulterior motives. It did bother me a bit with leilana that in 7 out of 8 games I accidently found myself in a romance with her which caused a fight with the person I was with because I wasn't a complete ass. And of course in that eight game she starts coming on to me right after climbing out of the tent with someone else. This felt wrong because it wasn't her personality.



I don't think every character should be bi as that takes away from the individuality of the char. I do however think that more than 4 chars should be possible LI's. I mean consider oghren for a second. His very description says he likes alcohol and women. Does this not lead to at least a one night stand? I find it far more unrealistic that half of the party is asexual (exclusing sten and shale for obvious reasons) than even the aforementioned problem with the LI's like with leilana.

[Niten Ryu]

Player characters in CRPGs are almost omnipotent so making all NPCs bi would fit perfectly. Your character already do amazing things (killing dragons, saving the world ec ect) and seducing NPC no matter the sexual preference would be simple task. It don't have to mean NPCs are actually bi (in pure technical sense), but they are willing to submit under main characters influence.



But I see this more of a resource and schedule issue. Wasting developer time on romances is questionable already and this would only increase the workload. I'd cut the romance part complitely and go GTA San Andreas or The Witcher pure sex route.

[GodWood]

Niten Ryu wrote...
But I see this more of a resource and schedule issue. Wasting developer time on romances is questionable already and this would only increase the workload. I'd cut the romance part complitely and go GTA San Andreas or The Witcher pure sex route.

Oh dear god no

[AlexXIV]

GodWood wrote...

Niten Ryu wrote...
But I see this more of a resource and schedule issue. Wasting developer time on romances is questionable already and this would only increase the workload. I'd cut the romance part complitely and go GTA San Andreas or The Witcher pure sex route.

Oh dear god no

Agree, dunno GTA but Witcher sex/romance was something between annoying and ridiculous. Unless you just like to bed every female toon in the game, be forced to bed some and your relationship breaks for a reason that make no sense either. I mean Witcher isn't the worst game ever but if it hadn't the romances in it would just have been better, not worse.

Actually one romance option for each gender would be enough. People who don't like it can just pass up.

[Kidd]

I definitely see your point with this thread. Heck, in a way I totally support it. It's not my ideal solution though.

I'd prefer if the companions were given tighter preferences. To commodate for the higher difficulty in romancing, more characters would be romanceable to make it easier for your character to find someone to hit it off with (after all, it doesn't really make sense in-world wise that so many characters are completely incapable of falling in love with you no matter who you are, anyway). This would truly make it feel like every character's romantic tastes were unique and special, far more than it is now.

But that would use up a lot of resources I believe. Romances might be a small thing in the greater whole, but in Sweden we say "lots of small brooks eventually turn a river wide", which is definitely true. This is what leads to the NPCs hitting on anything that's controlled by the big keyboard/gamepad in the sky. Might as well remove the quite arbitrary gender check to at least allow a tad more choice.

Choice is good. Well defined characters are better than choice. But when there is an area where a character isn't well defined (such as what kind of person Alistair can fancy - seemingly anyone who doesn't like Loghain) then you might as well just let it roll. As it stands right now, it's not "Morrigan is a vegan", it's "Morrigan refuses to eat things that have eggs in them... I guess".

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 13 janvier 2011 - 08:37 .