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[DiatribeEQ]

Only certain characters should swing both ways and others just one way (either completely straight or completely gay). To try to get every love interest to be bi is simply being greedy and unrealistic.

[Demx]

Ryzaki wrote...

No. Just....no.

Though the option to flirt with everyone should be there. Just certain characters should turn you down.

lol I could just imagine what the forums would be like if that was possible in Origins.

"Help! Sten keeps turning me down!"
"Oghren won't hook up with me."
"Why is Shale so cold towards me?"
"Wynne still won't give me a chance."

[Z-Dragon]

prazision wrote...

Z-Dragon wrote...

prazision wrote...

Several of you seem to have missed the point of what I actually said: Since every LI is attracted to the PC no matter what (a noble beautiful Elf or a mean-spirited greedy Dwarf) why not extend this to gender?
LIs would not literally all be "bisexual", but rather, their orientation would match up with your character in your game.
Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?
If you, reading this, are a straight male - are you attracted to every woman you meet, regardless of personality or appearance? Of course not. So if the LI is already capable of being attracted to any PC, what is the logical reason behind not extending that to gender?

To that theory I ask why isn't everyone in the world bisexual?

Many psychologists believe that everyone is bisexual. Google the "kinsey scale".

The psychologists use it as a way to measure sexual orientation based on sexual history.  It has a scale of 0-6 of exclusively heterosexual to exclusively homosexual, as well as X for asexual, this doesn't give a psychological basis for all people being bisexual.

That's also a scale created 60 years ago that many psychologists today feel isn't comprehensive enough.

Anything else?

Edit: Spelling

Modifié par Z-Dragon, 11 janvier 2011 - 09:02 .

[Felfenix]

Not every character is romanceable, regardless of orientation, and that adds a nice bit of realism, IMO, to have someone you may want but doesn't want you back. I think it adds a bit of realism as well that there are some people who you may want but can't have due to gender/orientation. However, I think LIs who you can't be with due to their being straight, should still have dialog in reaction to your coming onto them, acknowledging it and perhaps explaining they don't swing that way.

[SavageCarrot]

the_darkness wrote...
Compelling characters need defined traits that define them. Once you make across the board generalizations, you loose what makes a character that character in the first place. I am not opposed to the BI characters in Bioware's games, nor am I opposed to having strictly homosexual characters, but those should be traits that are part of THAT character not the whole cast.

This.

[snfonseka]

Not realistic, even for a game.

[prazision]

DiatribeEQ wrote...

Only certain characters should swing both ways and others just one way (either completely straight or completely gay). To try to get every love interest to be bi is simply being greedy and unrealistic.

So it's realistic that Leliana will fall in love with a tall dashing man who is always polite, a slender lithe Elf who insults the Chantry, a short ugly Dwarf who assassinates people for money, etc.? Not one person has attempted to explain that, and that is the core of my argument. The LIs clearly orient their preference to the PC already, why stop at gender?
It's "greedy" to want my sexual orientation be playable in a less limited sense in the game? It's MY game, why do you care if Morrigan is a lesbian or Alistair is gay in MY game? They don't have to be in yours, again, so long as one can choose a sexual orientation at character creation.
After all, if sexual orientation is so important - why doesn't the game ask you to choose one at the beginning?

[wulfsturm]

prazision wrote...
So it's realistic that Leliana will fall in love with a tall dashing man who is always polite, a slender lithe Elf who insults the Chantry, a short ugly Dwarf who assassinates people for money, etc.? Not one person has attempted to explain that, and that is the core of my argument. The LIs clearly orient their preference to the PC already, why stop at gender?
It's "greedy" to want my sexual orientation be playable in a less limited sense in the game? It's MY game, why do you care if Morrigan is a lesbian or Alistair is gay in MY game? They don't have to be in yours, again, so long as one can choose a sexual orientation at character creation.
After all, if sexual orientation is so important - why doesn't the game ask you to choose one at the beginning?

...Because there's much more to people then their looks?

[prazision]

snfonseka wrote...

Not realistic, even for a game.

Yet it is realistic that, as long as you have the proper thing between your legs and give her gifts, Morrigan will fall in love with you regardless of your appearance or personality? LOL!

[Calla S]

prazision wrote...

It's MY game, why do you care if Morrigan is a lesbian or Alistair is gay in MY game? They don't have to be in yours, again, so long as one can choose a sexual orientation at character creation.

It's not your game. It's their game. You're just playing it.

[Dave of Canada]

If I'm a total ass towards Morrigan, she won't romance me. Personality does impact romance.
---
There's no way to check if a character is ugly in the game through the character creator.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 11 janvier 2011 - 09:13 .

[Felfenix]

OP has a good point that's unfortunately being ignored/dismissed, however, I think it was silly that no LI's cared if you were a human, elf, or dwarf. Furthermore, I'd find it interesting and think it would add a lot of dynamic potential to the game if NPCs/LIs not only reacted to things like gender and race, but also to features/appearance. There are people IRL afterall, who are turned off at the thought of a lover with a beard, or with red hair, etc... just as there are those turned off by the thought of a lover of the same gender.

Modifié par Felfenix, 11 janvier 2011 - 09:14 .

[prazision]

wulfsturm wrote...

prazision wrote...
So it's realistic that Leliana will fall in love with a tall dashing man who is always polite, a slender lithe Elf who insults the Chantry, a short ugly Dwarf who assassinates people for money, etc.? Not one person has attempted to explain that, and that is the core of my argument. The LIs clearly orient their preference to the PC already, why stop at gender?
It's "greedy" to want my sexual orientation be playable in a less limited sense in the game? It's MY game, why do you care if Morrigan is a lesbian or Alistair is gay in MY game? They don't have to be in yours, again, so long as one can choose a sexual orientation at character creation.
After all, if sexual orientation is so important - why doesn't the game ask you to choose one at the beginning?

...Because there's much more to people then their looks?

You apparently did not read the very first sentence of the post you replied to. I included personality traits as well.

[Leonia]

Total disregard for the NPC's personalities and feelings is kinda..selfish.



Hey look, I want to romance that bush over there..

[commanderVal]

prazision wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Not realistic, even for a game.

Yet it is realistic that, as long as you have the proper thing between your legs and give her gifts, Morrigan will fall in love with you regardless of your appearance or personality? LOL!

Actually, yes- Morrigan will.

[The Elder King]

prazision wrote...

DiatribeEQ wrote...

Only certain characters should swing both ways and others just one way (either completely straight or completely gay). To try to get every love interest to be bi is simply being greedy and unrealistic.

So it's realistic that Leliana will fall in love with a tall dashing man who is always polite, a slender lithe Elf who insults the Chantry, a short ugly Dwarf who assassinates people for money, etc.? Not one person has attempted to explain that, and that is the core of my argument. The LIs clearly orient their preference to the PC already, why stop at gender?
It's "greedy" to want my sexual orientation be playable in a less limited sense in the game? It's MY game, why do you care if Morrigan is a lesbian or Alistair is gay in MY game? They don't have to be in yours, again, so long as one can choose a sexual orientation at character creation.
After all, if sexual orientation is so important - why doesn't the game ask you to choose one at the beginning?

First, about Leliana, it's for the system in Origin, whit an enourmous amount of gifts, you can correct the action you did and Leliana didnt' approve. Plus, you have to choice some dialogue lines to let Leliana "fall in love" with you. About the uglyness of the PC we created, it's based on the fact that it's quite impossible to register the PC as "ugly" in a game. And the uglyness and the sexual orientation aren't related.
And the problem about making all the romance Bisex it's difficult to implement a "sexual orientation button" in the CC, to decide how the NPC will react at you PC. This system implies the creaton of two type of dialogue the NPC could do with the PC, which lead to an additional work. Or they make all the character Bisexual, or they make some character bisexual. And I prefer the latter. The NPC have to be different to each other, and their sexual orientation is a part of their character.

[Z-Dragon]

leonia42 wrote...

Total disregard for the NPC's personalities and feelings is kinda..selfish.

Hey look, I want to romance that bush over there..

well....it is looking pretty sexy today....

[prazision]

Dave of Canada wrote...

If I'm a total ass towards Morrigan, she won't romance me. Personality does impact romance.
---
There's no way to check if a character is ugly in the game through the character creator.

Of course if you directly are hostile to characters they dislike you (which can then be fixed by giving them presents).
But again, Leliana will fall in love with me even if I insult the Maker to every Chantry priestess in the game and let innocents die for my own gain.

[wulfsturm]

prazision wrote...
You apparently did not read the very first sentence of the post you replied to. I included personality traits as well.

...

prazision wrote...
So it's realistic that Leliana will fall in love with a tall dashing man
who is always polite, a slender lithe Elf who insults the Chantry, a
short ugly Dwarf who assassinates people for money, etc.? Not one person
has attempted to explain that, and that is the core of my argument. The
LIs clearly orient their preference to the PC already, why stop at
gender?

Those arn't personality traits, those are justifications your trying to make - just sayin'.

Modifié par wulfsturm, 11 janvier 2011 - 09:19 .

[Mad-Max90]

prazision wrote...

Perhaps it is too late for this game (I hope not, as there are two full months left and we have hardly any non-alpha footage so far) but hear me out:
1. The Basic Approach.
In BioWare games, no matter what your PC's appearance or personality is, LIs (of the "appropriate" gender) will fall in love with you. This establishes, quote strongly, that the intent behind the romances is that the PC is "irresistable" - Leliana will fall in love with you if you're a svelt, gorgeous Elf or an ugly, pudgy Dwarf.
Given that, I think this concept should be extended to gender.
Whatever gender you play, the game orients itself to you - play a female Warden, and Morrigan is a lesbian. Play a male Warden, Alistair is gay.
In case this would "offend" anybody, have "sexual orientation" be a trait you pick at character creation.
Some might say this would take too much resources. Considering how few lines of dialogue are actually involved in the romances (compared to the amount of dialogue in the game as a whole) it shouldn't be much of an issue.
Now, why do this at all? Because it is clear that allowing all players to experience as much content as possible is a good idea. I was very disappointed that I was required to play a Male Warden to romance Morrigan. And as a bisexual male, I found the Zevran "romance" to be an insulting token inclusion, since there was no love, no "romance", with him. Just sex. Nothing approaching the deep sense of connection I felt with Leliana's romance path, for example. I felt my male Warden was closer to Sten than Zevran!
I understand that at least one m/m romance has been hinted at for DA2. I would love some confirmation that it is a proper "romance" and not a fling. I do not need to hear which character it is, just one simple confirmation that it is a loving, real relationship would be nice.
If such an announcement would negatively impact sales, however, I will understand if this is not discussed. BioWareEA is, after all, a business, and as a bisexual man I certainly understand being shunned by certain people, and unfortunately gamers are not perfect and sometimes have prejudices.
Thank you for your time, and if you agree, please show your support in this thread.

You should really think about storytelling, do you think J.R. Tolkien wanted someone to say, "you know that book was good but if all the characters were bi and just banged each other, it would have been so much better"?  these are bioware's characters the fact they put bi characters in the game should be good enough for you. You already have your cake now eat it

[commanderVal]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

...You already have your cake now eat it

LOL!! Perhaps this is what Sten was talking about when he said "The cake is a lie"

[Z-Dragon]

hhh89 wrote...

About the uglyness of the PC we created, it's based on the fact that it's quite impossible to register the PC as "ugly" in a game. And the uglyness and the sexual orientation aren't related.

This.

It will be pretty crazy once a system like that is developed though!

[WidowMaker9394]

I know hundreds of people. Only one of them is bisexual.



To your proposal: A big NO. Bioware is not here to make your sexual fetishes come true in a video game form. If you want to hang out with a plethora of ******/bisexual people you'd be better off in a gay bar.

[Mad-Max90]

Im sorry if I came off as a jerk, but these are characters that people have put a lot of time into their UNIQUE stories if some happen to like men and others don't that makes it a little more real to me. I dont hit on lesbians because I know there sexual preference.