685 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

davidk1991 wrote...
It's not so much making every character bisexual, it's making the love interests potential romances for any Hawke. A bit like in 'The Sims' games, any Sim has the potential to be flirted with etc. but it doesn't mean every character in The Sims is bisexual.

Indeed.

The problem with such a scenario, according to some, is the need to reconcile the fact that the character(s) in question could be gay -- even if they're not gay for the character they're currently playing. Such a character would either need to be canonically bisexual (such as Zevran, who says that he sleeps with both men and women no matter whom he's romancing) or would need to have a subjective sexuality (meaning the character is straight if the player is the opposite gender or bisexual/gay only if the player is the same gender... and presumably interested). Neither seems ideal, especially to people who feel the need to identify what the character "really" is.

All I suggested in my posts on this thread is that it need not be such a big issue, were this the route we chose to take. A character need not discuss it like Zevran did, and thus shine a spotlight on what they "really" are -- I know it's a shock, but we could have the character's story revolve around other things than their sexuality. It really depends on what goal we set out for ourselves when we begin designing the romances.

As for people concerned about the meta-aspect of "could my romance be gay for some player in another reality" ...well, they'd simply have to get over it in such an instance, wouldn't they? No matter which way we go with romance issues, someone's bound to be peevish.

[arcane-weirdo]

Sooooooo, the big poobah is here?

*begins assault*

who are the LI's!?

which ones are bi!?

*ends assault*

[Morrigans God son]

Omg people on these forums are so darn picky.

[AlexXIV]

David Gaider wrote...

davidk1991 wrote...
It's not so much making every character bisexual, it's making the love interests potential romances for any Hawke. A bit like in 'The Sims' games, any Sim has the potential to be flirted with etc. but it doesn't mean every character in The Sims is bisexual.

Indeed.

The problem with such a scenario, according to some, is the need to reconcile the fact that the character(s) in question could be gay -- even if they're not gay for the character they're currently playing. Such a character would either need to be canonically bisexual (such as Zevran, who says that he sleeps with both men and women no matter whom he's romancing) or would need to have a subjective sexuality (meaning the character is straight if the player is the opposite gender or bisexual/gay only if the player is the same gender... and presumably interested). Neither seems ideal, especially to people who feel the need to identify what the character "really" is.

All I suggested in my posts on this thread is that it need not be such a big issue, were this the route we chose to take. A character need not discuss it like Zevran did, and thus shine a spotlight on what they "really" are -- I know it's a shock, but we could have the character's story revolve around other things than their sexuality. It really depends on what goal we set out for ourselves when we begin designing the romances.

As for people concerned about the meta-aspect of "could my romance be gay for some player in another reality" ...well, they'd simply have to get over it in such an instance, wouldn't they? No matter which way we go with romance issues, someone's bound to be peevish.

Funny enough, everyone's sexuality (aside from Dog) is being a topic for at least banter. So I'd have to wonder if it is really a good idea to just leave it out for the sole reason that people are not supposed to find out something they may or may not like.

[AlexXIV]

arcane-weirdo wrote...

Sooooooo, the big poobah is here?
*begins assault*
who are the LI's!?
which ones are bi!?
*ends assault*

Jimmy is the straight male, Johnny the bisexual.
Jane is the straight female, while Jill is bisexual.

[Elite Midget]

Not likeing that you go on about bisexual and straight than you go bisexual/gay and not just 'gay'... Really, are people 'that' afraid of a gay only character? Not like it's impossible that a woman may 'only' be interested in woman and wants nothing to do with a manly man Hawke.



Just saying.

[AlexXIV]

Elite Midget wrote...

Not likeing that you go on about bisexual and straight than you go bisexual/gay and not just 'gay'... Really, are people 'that' afraid of a gay only character? Not like it's impossible that a woman may 'only' be interested in woman and wants nothing to do with a manly man Hawke.

Just saying.

Because there is no market for gay LIs. Or in other words not enough selling argument. Bisexuals though do cater to gay and straight people both at the same time, which is pretty efficient. It is not a matter of fear, it is a matter being economic.

[upsettingshorts]

It's about resource management, not fear or tokenism.

[Elite Midget]

Yet there was just an arguement that Bisexual LIs push Straight Players away because they 'could' be Bisexual with the same gender.



Also, Bisexual shouldn't be paired with Gay. It shouldn't be Bisexual/Gay and Straight. It should be Besexual, Gay, and Straight.



I don't buy that resource bull anymore than any other intelligent person on this forum. If Bioware cared enough about resource management to that degree than why bother offering branching paths, the ability to change party memebers, or any choices? If it was a 'huge' problem than why not make everything linear and straight to the point? I mean, if it was a 'problem' than wouldn't that be the 'best' solution instead of, I fon't know, giving us 'more' choices that may very well lock different characters from seeing content in the game based on what they do?



After all, isn't it a 'waste' of resources for romances since not everyone will pursue them? What about the 'missable' characters in DA: O? Tons missed Sten, Dog, Shale(Later can have killed anyway) Leliena, and killed Wynne. Was 'that' a resource management problem as well? No, but apparantly 'optional' Gay only characters are considered 'more' wasteful than completely missing 5 characters on a single playthrough!



Where's the 'justice' in that?!



This resource management excuse is dicrimination plain and simple.

[Elite Midget]

[Double Post]

Modifié par Elite Midget, 18 janvier 2011 - 07:22 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elite Midget wrote...

This resource management excuse is dicrimination plain and simple.

No it isn't.  

Elite Midget wrote...

Where's the 'justice' in that?!

Who said anything about justice?

Elite Midget wrote...

Yet there was just an arguement that Bisexual LIs push Straight Players away because they 'could' be Bisexual with the same gender.

Those people are wrong, too.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 janvier 2011 - 07:23 .

[Elite Midget]

Yes it is. You're blind to the truth that you're actually believing that clever ruse! I just pointed out things that waste MORE resources than having even just 'ONE' Gay-Only LI.

Like the '5' MISSEABLE characters for DA:O? Remember that? Yeah, what can you say against such 'waste' as that? Nothing because it shows that Bioware isn't having that much resource management issues as they let on and simply uses it as an excuse to bow before the media and the religious fantatics that hate all things Gay/Lesbian.

On a single playthrough of a evil character that is new to the game and just wants to do the main story you can...

1) Miss Leliana
2) Miss Sten
3) Miss Shale or kill later
4) Kill Wynne
5) Don't start as Human Noble and kill Dog at camp
6) Kill Zevrab
7) Kill Aliaster later
8) Miss Loghain
9) lose Morrigan before the Final Battle by not boning her or getting her boned.

The only one you really can't kill or lose is pretty much Orghren.

Now tell me now a Gay LI is 'MORE 'wasteful than this?

Modifié par Elite Midget, 18 janvier 2011 - 07:31 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yes it is. You're blind to the truth that you're actually believing that clever ruse! I just pointed out things that waste MORE resources than having even just 'ONE' Gay-Only LI.

Nah, I just don't have an agenda.  Well, not in this case.

I was not saying resources are wasted.  I was saying they exist and must be spent efficiently in order to appeal to as broadly as possible.

Elite Midget wrote...

Nothing because it shows that Bioware isn't having that much resource management issues as they let on and simply uses it as an excuse to bow before the media and the religious fantatics that hate all things Gay/Lesbian.

If you genuinely believe that I'm not sure discussing this with you will be productive.

[Elite Midget]

Yet you seem to ignore that having the ability to miss 5 Characters and lose the others but Orghren over the story isn't seen as 'wasteful' but a Gay LI 'must' be wasteful!

I believe in the truth and I know a ruse and a cover up when I see it. This is a poor excuse to continue to discriminate against Gays/Lesbians. It's a shame that Bioware would consider their Gay/Lesbian customers as 'unworthy' when compared to the Religious fanatics and the Spindoctoring Media. Who I might add don't even play Bioware games anyway.

Hell Bethesdia and Obsidian showed true courage and made real and awesome characters. The more popular ones 'HAPPEN' to be the Gay Man and Lesbian Woman!!! Gasp!

Yet resources are 'better' spent on appeasing those that will 'never' buy a Bioware game? Really!?

Modifié par Elite Midget, 18 janvier 2011 - 07:35 .

[AlexXIV]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yes it is. You're blind to the truth that you're actually believing that clever ruse! I just pointed out things that waste MORE resources than having even just 'ONE' Gay-Only LI.

Like the '5' MISSEABLE characters for DA:O? Remember that? Yeah, what can you say against such 'waste' as that? Nothing because it shows that Bioware isn't having that much resource management issues as they let on and simply uses it as an excuse to bow before the media and the religious fantatics that hate all things Gay/Lesbian.

On a single playthrough of a evil character that is new to the game and just wants to do the main story you can...

1) Miss Leliana
2) Miss Sten
3) Miss Shale or kill later
4) Kill Wynne
5) Don't start as Human Noble and kill Dog at camp
6) Kill Zevrab
7) Kill Aliaster later
8) Miss Loghain
9) lose Morrigan before the Final Battle by not boning her or getting her boned.

The only one you really can't kill or lose is pretty much Orghren.

Now tell me now a Gay LI is 'MORE 'wasteful than this?

If you miss any npc it is your choice. Or you fault in any way.

It is an RPG though and not a dating sim. So romances are already something not really held imporant by the majority of players. Now you suggest romances should also be in a way that nobody playing the game could complain, which is simply neither efficient nor economic. And making games is a business. Whether you believe it or not, not even female Qunari made it in. And I for one would rather just see a female Qunari (needn't be LI or even companion, just an NPC) than the whole romance thing.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 18 janvier 2011 - 07:37 .

[upsettingshorts]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yet you seem to ignore that having the ability to miss 5 Characters and lose the others but Orghren over the story isn't seen as 'wasteful' but a Gay LI 'must' be wasteful!

You keep saying "wasteful."  I never once used that word.

Elite Midget wrote...

I believe in the truth and I know a ruse and a cover up when I see it.

Uh-huh.

Elite Midget wrote...

This is a poor excuse to continue to discriminate against Gays/Lesbians.

The difference between what you're saying and the guys worried about the black helicopters and UFOs is that at least in your case homophobia does exist.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 janvier 2011 - 07:38 .

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Yet you seem to ignore that having the ability to miss 5 Characters and lose the others but Orghren over the story isn't seen as 'wasteful' but a Gay LI 'must' be wasteful!

You keep saying "wasteful."  I never once used that word.

Elite Midget wrote...

I believe in the truth and I know a ruse and a cover up when I see it.

Uh-huh.

Elite Midget wrote...

This is a poor excuse to continue to discriminate against Gays/Lesbians.

The difference between what you're saying and the guys worried about the black helicopters and UFOs is that at least in your case homophobia does exist.

Did you just say aliens don't exist? And what about Liara?

[upsettingshorts]

AlexXIV wrote...

Did you just say aliens don't exist? And what about Liara?

Oh, well, personally I think they do.  I just don't think they've been here.  But that's off topic.  I was just making the point that I think Elite Midget's position is paranoid, but at least it's more justified than those who equip themselves with tinfoil hats.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 janvier 2011 - 07:41 .

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Did you just say aliens don't exist? And what about Liara?

Oh, well, personally I think they do.  I just don't think they've been here.  But that's off topic.  I was just making the point that I think Elite Midget's position is paranoid, but at least it's more justified than those who equip themselves with tinfoil hats.

Good. A small chance is still a chance.

[Elite Midget]

Seeing the truth for what it is and calling it out as such doesn't make me paranoid. Just because you've been tricked into believing that ruse doesn't mean that I'm without merit.

[AlexXIV]

Elite Midget wrote...

Seeing the truth for what it is and calling it out as such doesn't make me paranoid. Just because you've been tricked into believing that ruse doesn't mean that I'm without merit.

Yes, yes. 'Seeing the truth' is quite a valuable ability. Especially because it is something that can't be argued.

[upsettingshorts]

Elite Midget wrote...

Seeing the truth for what it is and calling it out as such doesn't make me paranoid. Just because you've been tricked into believing that ruse doesn't mean that I'm without merit.

You're right.  What you're saying right here isn't paranoid.  Not at all. 

I absolutely cannot paste what you wrote into Google and have the number one result be a website discussing the Illuminati.

[Elite Midget]

Trying to associate me with cults or take a sarcastic tone with me? I see how it is... You truely are fine with this unjust discrimination and are no resorting to personal attacks because you don't desire that justice ever be done for Gays/Lesbians. Apparantly they aren't 'worth it' an a 'waste of resources' that should be managed on more 'important' tasks such as 5 missable Characters and the ability to have 9 of them dead!

[Bryy_Miller]

Elite Midget wrote...

Yet you seem to ignore that having the ability to miss 5 Characters and lose the others but Orghren over the story isn't seen as 'wasteful' but a Gay LI 'must' be wasteful!

I believe in the truth and I know a ruse and a cover up when I see it. This is a poor excuse to continue to discriminate against Gays/Lesbians. It's a shame that Bioware would consider their Gay/Lesbian customers as 'unworthy' when compared to the Religious fanatics and the Spindoctoring Media. Who I might add don't even play Bioware games anyway.

Hell Bethesdia and Obsidian showed true courage and made real and awesome characters. The more popular ones 'HAPPEN' to be the Gay Man and Lesbian Woman!!! Gasp!

Yet resources are 'better' spent on appeasing those that will 'never' buy a Bioware game? Really!?

I was going to link you to BioWare staff's quotes concerning gays in games, but you seem to already have read them, and don't care. Also, you're using the term 'cover-up' wrong.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 18 janvier 2011 - 08:23 .

[AlexXIV]

Elite Midget wrote...

Trying to associate me with cults or take a sarcastic tone with me? I see how it is... You truely are fine with this unjust discrimination and are no resorting to personal attacks because you don't desire that justice ever be done for Gays/Lesbians. Apparantly they aren't 'worth it' an a 'waste of resources' that should be managed on more 'important' tasks such as 5 missable Characters and the ability to have 9 of them dead!

I don't like injustice and I am sorry for that. But life isn't fair, and there isn't much you or I can do about it. I just don't know how to argue against your claim that you 'see the truth'. I could go into a philosphical debate about that but that would just be too far from topic. I could also just say 'No you don't see the truth'. Because you can see many things, but the truth is not among them.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 18 janvier 2011 - 08:23 .