685 réponses à ce sujet

[Jimmy Fury]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Mods break the game's plot and/or story, if not the game's mechanics as a whole. I play with mods, but it's not going to change the fact that they add something to the game which was never meant to be there.

Adding something to the game that was never meant to be there is not the same as breaking the plot. That's just ludacris hyperbole. Unfortunately it's also entirely off topic so I digress. I'll not contribute to further derailment.

[Elite Midget]

I fail to see how those that are attacking me are seen as 'reasonable' when they keep pulling up every excuse in the book to try and legitimize the discrimination against Gays/Lesbians. Hell, Bioware could even take the first step and just make a none LI GAY ONLY character as a Party Member. Yet it seems that in recent years Bioware has shy'd away from doing even just that.



Is it insanity to have some guts and the courage to speak up to those that support an injust act through many woven excuses?

[Wishpig]

Elite Midget wrote...

I fail to see how those that are attacking me are seen as 'reasonable' when they keep pulling up every excuse in the book to try and legitimize the discrimination against Gays/Lesbians. Hell, Bioware could even take the first step and just make a none LI GAY ONLY character as a Party Member. Yet it seems that in recent years Bioware has shy'd away from doing even just that.

Is it insanity to have some guts and the courage to speak up to those that support an injust act through many woven excuses?

You make me groan. And not the good sexual type of groan, the "ugh, this person needs to get off their righteous butt, check into the reality hotel, and buy a top notch hooker who will accept arrogance or ignorance as a type of currency" type of groan.

Yes, it's a very specific type of groan.

Modifié par Wishpig, 19 janvier 2011 - 02:21 .

[Count Viceroy]

Wishpig wrote...

You make me groan. And not the good sexual type of groan, the "ugh, this person needs to get off their righteous butt, check into the reality hotel, and buy a top notch hooker who will accept arrogance or ignorance as a type of currency" type of groan.

Yes, it's a very specific type of groan.

hot.

[Elite Midget]

I'm sorry you're feeling unwell but I fail to see how me getting a hooker will make you feel any better. You also seem to... Contradict yourself.



How does...



Truth = Ignorance



And how does...



Courage = Arrogance?



Just wondering is all.

[Ailith Tycane]

I'm still a big supporter of having characters with subjective sexualities, but I can see how it wouldn't be ideal. What I DON'T see about that however is how the idea seems to really bother some other players. Like the idea of Morrigan or Alistair in DAO possibly being in a gay romance with someone else in a completely separate game from their own somehow ruins the experience for them.

I romanced Leliana as a female character, and from what I've seen she was still incredibly popular among male players. I don't care what they do with Leliana in their own game, that's their story, not mine, and that's the point of games like these.

Also, the idea that Bioware is somehow discriminating against anyone is a bit absurd. The fact that they even bother to add same sex romances at all in such a male/hetero dominated field of entertainment speaks volumes. But to deviate just a bit, I do have to admit, that comment that was made a while back by Bioware about how Mass Effect didn't have any gay romances because Liara isn't actually female was just...not well thought out. Liara might not be "female" but she physically IS female, so if female Shepard is attracted to her, what does that make Shepard? Gay, gay, gay.

I know it's not likely for DA2 (I still really want an Aveline F/F romance but it probably won't happen) but I don't see the harm in subjective romances. If Bioware feels like they can pull it off I think they should at least TRY it once in at least one of their games, see how it works.

Modifié par Ailith430, 19 janvier 2011 - 02:55 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Elite Midget wrote...

I fail to see how those that are attacking me are seen as 'reasonable' when they keep pulling up every excuse in the book to try and legitimize the discrimination against Gays/Lesbians. Hell, Bioware could even take the first step and just make a none LI GAY ONLY character as a Party Member. Yet it seems that in recent years Bioware has shy'd away from doing even just that.

Is it insanity to have some guts and the courage to speak up to those that support an injust act through many woven excuses?

Speaking up to things that are unjust is great and I wish more people would do it. However, you seem to have a very specific agenda and not listen to what other people say. Even David Gaider answered why the situation is like this and why they can't/wont implement more gay romances. BioWare sell games and they have a budget to follow. Nothing is free to just add. It takes time and resources. It would seem logical to include things that more people will see in the game than things that less people will se. I would hardly call that discrimination. 

[Elite Midget]

Well, look at it this way. Some Straight Gamers don't like anything Gay. Straight Gamers are the Majority. Not all Straught Gamers hate everything Gay. Yet 'some' do.



Gay/Lesbian Gamers don't seem to 'care' that a game may or may not have a Straight romance. They are the minority.



Because Straight Gamers are the Majority and 'some' hate anything Gay it must mean that 'all' Straight Gamers don't want such content in their games thus a 'wasted' investment. Hence why all Gay Characters are magically made into Bisexuals that will bone anything that breathes.

[Ailith Tycane]

Elite Midget wrote...

Well, look at it this way. Some Straight Gamers don't like anything Gay. Straight Gamers are the Majority. Not all Straught Gamers hate everything Gay. Yet 'some' do.

Gay/Lesbian Gamers don't seem to 'care' that a game may or may not have a Straight romance. They are the minority.

Because Straight Gamers are the Majority and 'some' hate anything Gay it must mean that 'all' Straight Gamers don't want such content in their games thus a 'wasted' investment. Hence why all Gay Characters are magically made into Bisexuals that will bone anything that breathes.

So you're implying bisexual people are super promiscuous now?

[Elite Midget]

More Gay Romances? You do know that in recent years no Bioware game has had a 'true' Gay character. The Romances are either straight only or they want to bone anything that breathes. It isn't an agenda I'm merely calling it as it is.



Hell, in recent years Bioware hasen't even had a Gay Only Non-LI in your party or had a big role in their games. What's the excuse there now that the 'romance' part is no longer a factor?

[Wishpig]

Elite Midget wrote...

I'm sorry you're feeling unwell but I fail to see how me getting a hooker will make you feel any better. You also seem to... Contradict yourself.

How does...

Truth = Ignorance

And how does...

Courage = Arrogance?

Just wondering is all.

Well to contradict myself, I would needed to have said or beleaved you're couragous and/or speaking the truth. I didn't and I don't.

Elite Midget wrote...
Hence
why all Gay Characters are magically made into Bisexuals that will bone
anything that breathes.

Wow! *SHOCK!* A statement that is untrue and arrogant!

Modifié par Wishpig, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:05 .

[Elite Midget]

I'm implying that Bioware has depicted them in that way. Take DA: O for example.



Leliana and Zevran vs Morrigan and Alistair.



How do their romances differ? Why if it that the Bisexuals are 'much' easier to bone? Why is it that only the Straight LIs have any real importance in the story? Lets see at the end of DA: O...



Former Assassian and Crazy Chick who goes on unimportant adventures vs A King and an all power Apostate who will birth a God Child.



Now I wonder why that is...

[Ailith Tycane]

Elite Midget wrote...

More Gay Romances? You do know that in recent years no Bioware game has had a 'true' Gay character. The Romances are either straight only or they want to bone anything that breathes. It isn't an agenda I'm merely calling it as it is.

Hell, in recent years Bioware hasen't even had a Gay Only Non-LI in your party or had a big role in their games. What's the excuse there now that the 'romance' part is no longer a factor?

I have to admit, your comments about bisexuality are starting to grate on me. Not only have I not seen this behavior in any Bioware games (the bisexual character wanting to bone everything) but I'm starting to wonder if this is how you really feel about bisexuals in general, in which case you're being discriminatory yourself, and your arguments are becoming less and less valid the more you post.

Also, it's quite possible there have been gay non LI characters in Bioware games, their sexuality just may have not been immediately drawn to attention, which seems realistic enough to me since someones sexuality doesnt define who they are as a person.

Modifié par Ailith430, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:02 .

[Elite Midget]

Clearly you must have since you offered me a hooker... Why were you trying to push an unwanted gift such as that on me if you truely didn't believe in my cause which is that of Truth, Courage, and Pointing out acts of Injustice? I mean, I appreciate the lengths you would go but I must decline on the Hooker.

[Elite Midget]

If you take offense to me stateing how Bioware has depicted Bisexuals vs Straights than you have my apologizes. I merely stateing how I see things are. I even just made an example between the Straight LIs vs the Bisexual ones and clearly the Straight ones are more important, are more favored, and generally seen as the 'right' choice while the Bisexual ones are nowhere near as important, aren't as favored, and are seen as the 'wrong' choice and 'used' goods.



Have you ever wondered 'WHY' Aliastiar and pehaps even Morrigan are 'virgins' yet Leliana and Zevran outright state that they've been with 'MANY' different men and women?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Ailith430 wrote...

I'm still a big supporter of having characters with subjective sexualities, but I can see how it wouldn't be ideal. What I DON'T see about that however is how the idea seems to really bother some other players. Like the idea of Morrigan or Alistair in DAO possibly being in a gay romance with someone else in a completely separate game from their own somehow ruins the experience for them.

I romanced Leliana as a female character, and from what I've seen she was still incredibly popular among male players. I don't care what they do with Leliana in their own game, that's their story, not mine, and that's the point of games like these.

Lelianas character doesnt' change betwen those 2 games mind you.
Lelina is bi, was bi and will be bi, regardless if you play a male or female, gay or straight.

Same for Zev.

There was nothing subjective about them. They are fixed persons. As it should be.
Writing different personalities just adds a whole lot of work and complexity that is not necessary.

[Wishpig]

Elite Midget wrote...

Clearly you must have since you offered me a hooker... Why were you trying to push an unwanted gift such as that on me if you truely didn't believe in my cause which is that of Truth, Courage, and Pointing out acts of Injustice? I mean, I appreciate the lengths you would go but I must decline on the Hooker.

Offered you a hooker? Lol, whats that suppose to be, some clever twist you put on my post? No, I specifically said you should go buy one, cause I'm sure as hell not offering you anything!

Elite Midget wrote...
Have you ever wondered 'WHY' Aliastiar
and pehaps even Morrigan are 'virgins' yet Leliana and Zevran outright
state that they've been with 'MANY' different men and women?

Lol, if Morrigan was made into a lesbian you would prob be the first to promote the idea bioware is making lesbians look evil.

Leliana was also the good girl, Morrigan was the bad girl... what do you have to say about that? The strait romance was with a b**** who isn't as popular/loved as the bi romance.

Modifié par Wishpig, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:10 .

[Ailith Tycane]

Elite Midget wrote...

If you take offense to me stateing how Bioware has depicted Bisexuals vs Straights than you have my apologizes. I merely stateing how I see things are. I even just made an example between the Straight LIs vs the Bisexual ones and clearly the Straight ones are more important, are more favored, and generally seen as the 'right' choice while the Bisexual ones are nowhere near as important, aren't as favored, and are seen as the 'wrong' choice and 'used' goods.

Have you ever wondered 'WHY' Aliastiar and pehaps even Morrigan are 'virgins' yet Leliana and Zevran outright state that they've been with 'MANY' different men and women?

That is entirely opinion based. I personally couldnt stand Alistair OR Morrigan as romance options and stuck with the "wrong, used goods", as you put it, choice of Leliana.

Point is you're seeing what you want to see, and thats not the impression of their characters I got at all.

[Ailith Tycane]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Lelianas character doesnt' change betwen those 2 games mind you.
Lelina is bi, was bi and will be bi, regardless if you play a male or female, gay or straight.

Same for Zev.

There was nothing subjective about them. They are fixed persons. As it should be.
Writing different personalities just adds a whole lot of work and complexity that is not necessary.

Uhm, yes I was aware they were bi. I'm just saying I don't think it would have made a huge difference gameplay wise if their sexuality was subjective depending on the characters sex and weather they show romantic interest.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Elite Midget wrote...

If you take offense to me stateing how Bioware has depicted Bisexuals vs Straights than you have my apologizes. I merely stateing how I see things are. I even just made an example between the Straight LIs vs the Bisexual ones and clearly the Straight ones are more important, are more favored, and generally seen as the 'right' choice while the Bisexual ones are nowhere near as important, aren't as favored, and are seen as the 'wrong' choice and 'used' goods.

Have you ever wondered 'WHY' Aliastiar and pehaps even Morrigan are 'virgins' yet Leliana and Zevran outright state that they've been with 'MANY' different men and women?

Are.  You.  Serious.  I can't believe.  I don't even.

First -- how do you figure Morrigan for a virgin?  She acts awfully non-virginal.  Second, how are you getting this straight ones being the RIGHT choice?  Leliana and Zevran are the ONLY two LIs that won't break it off with you unless you break it off with them!  Alistair breaks your heart if you aren't a human noble (and well, you can be his 'mistress' if he's hardened, but I think that's kind of degrading), and Morrigan ALWAYS leaves you and you can only be with her unless you walk into the mirror with her.  I don't know what's so right about that at all.

Get off your soapbox already, you're losing points with everyone here.  If you are offended so much, don't play!  Just sayin'.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:17 .

[The Flying Dutchman 10]

@RinjiRenee



This.



*dives back into lurking space*

[Matchy Pointy]

Elite Midget wrote...

If you take offense to me stateing how Bioware has depicted Bisexuals vs Straights than you have my apologizes. I merely stateing how I see things are. I even just made an example between the Straight LIs vs the Bisexual ones and clearly the Straight ones are more important, are more favored, and generally seen as the 'right' choice while the Bisexual ones are nowhere near as important, aren't as favored, and are seen as the 'wrong' choice and 'used' goods.

Have you ever wondered 'WHY' Aliastiar and pehaps even Morrigan are 'virgins' yet Leliana and Zevran outright state that they've been with 'MANY' different men and women?

I'm pretty sure Morrigan are very open about having been with plenty of men before, so not that big a virgin.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Ahaha whoops.   Deleted post.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:22 .

[Elite Midget]

She's a known actor yet she never states that she has ever been with another. The most extreme cases are that she heard her mother's tales and shows dissapointment that her mother wants her to start boning guys left and right.Clearly she values her body moreso them Flemeth does. Than there's the thing where she mentions that she has to do very little to have a man at her feet. Not one instance does she say that she isn't a Virgin...



Yet Zevran and Leliena aren't shy about it and Aliaster outright says that he has never been with another.



As for the Morrigan comment... I would love if she was made Lesbian Only. Hell, one of the top mods for DA: O gives a Female Warden the option of Romancing Morrigan.



As I said, that's how they're depicted. Aliaster and Morrigan are more important, favored, virgins, and thus seen as 'pure' and 'untained' while Zevran and Leliana are more like 'used' goods' compared to them. It doesn't help that both of the Bisexual LIs are Rogues and have done horrible things in the past and 'know' they're doing those things.



At least Morrigan was merely naive and Alistair was a devote 'good guy'.



The characters do that because they're more important to the plot and thus it demands they do thos things. Besides, Leliana does leave you after Origins to go to the Deep Roads and Zevran returns to Antiva. Did you 'not' play Awakening or talk to them after the Coronation?

[Felfenix]

I'm just curious since the point has been brought up, but how would Alistair or Morrigan being bisexual ruin the characters? Ever see the YouTube videos of those "Gay Alistair" mods? Surprisingly the dialog and everything still fits and comes off as believable as the straight romance. Actually, I think he comes off MORE believable as a homosexual.

As far as the whole "Morrigan is a pure virgin because she's straight and Leliana is a **** like all bisexuals!" thing, Morrigan talks about fooling around with men in town during her visits. Let's not even forget that Morrigan will sleep with any male regardless of approval. Leliana seems to save herself for those who earn her love, regardless of gender. Morrigan was liberal in regards to sex, and Leliana not being a virgin doesn't mean she's some ****.

Modifié par Felfenix, 19 janvier 2011 - 03:31 .