685 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

RedRoo wrote...

I can't help but feel the "well if we DID do this, here's how we'd do it" talk is meant to imply that it is indeed the system they've used for DA2. I don't know about you, but I for one welcome the fact that Isabela will be romancing everyone's pants off. I'm sure it will help divert attention from her own pant-deficiencies.

Will be a rough awakening for her if she finds out how jealous my Hawke is and that he is going to beat up everyone who even looks at her too long.

[Jimmy Fury]

RedRoo wrote...

I can't help but feel the "well if we DID do this, here's how we'd do it" talk is meant to imply that it is indeed the system they've used for DA2. I don't know about you, but I for one welcome the fact that Isabela will be romancing everyone's pants off. I'm sure it will help divert attention from her own pant-deficiencies.

I wouldn't be so quick to read into anything. Gaider is very good at speaking in hypotheticals. He's a professional. Literally....

[RedRoo]

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

[jwalker]

AlexXIV wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
It is not the same though. Being gay can bring a lot of problems which 'normal' relationships don't. If for example Alistair had been gay, and everyone knew it I wonder if Arl Eamon would still have suggested him as heir, if Anora had been willing to marry him or if even Alistair would have wanted to become king, since it would require an heir etc. Not trying to be narrow-minded here but including gay people in a game always also includes a sort of tragedy. And maybe writers just don't feel like it. If people think sexual orientation has nothing to do with the personality then I wonder how much thought they put into this statement. I mean it is the experiences you go through in life that form your personality or not?

I believe one of the writers (Gaider? Kirby?) mentioned somewhere that Ferelden's have a less intimate approach to sex when it's done to produce an heir. Nobles are expected to produce heirs with appropriate parentage and most, if not all, will fulfill that duty whether they enjoy the experience or not. Putting gay and lesbian nobles on the same level as heterosexual nobles who love a commoner or a templar or anyone else who they shouldn't produce an heir with. It's all well and good to have their fun but they need to get hitched and crank out a blueblood baby at some point. After that though they can go right back to dallying the cook or Ser Gilmore or whoever takes their fancy.

At least I think I remember someone saying that...

Yeah maybe I am thinking too much but for example with femWarden and Leliana. If I had their happy end love story it had a bad taste for me. Because I was thinking they may want to have kids one day and then ... how would they do it. And then if they do it, the kid will grow up and wonder who is the fatther one day, etc. It is all but a perfect ending.

Yeah, straight couples have such an easy time raising kids, happiness assured.
And yeah, kids of a straight couple never wonder who the father is...

[jlb524]

TeenZombie wrote...

Did you see the reaction from some Alistair fans to the intimation that Alistair and Leliana were romantically involved in the alternate reality of the Darkspawn Chronicles?  I don't think it's even a matter of sharing the LI with another gender...they just don't want their LI romancing anyone else, and somehow a gender switched version of Hawke doesn't qualify as "their" character anymore.

Especially now that the main character is voiced, I expect people to choose "sides" in the Male vs. Female protagonist debate, as people have regarding MaleShepard and FemaleShepard.  This, of course, will lead to romance options being seen as "right" for one version of Hawke over another.

I see this, but I think there's a difference between preferring one gender of the romance to the other (or even seeing it as 'the right one') and demanding that the romance for the other gender doesn't exist or that BW is awful for including it.

Personally, I think FemWarden/Leliana is 100000 x better than MaleWarden/Leliana and only play that pairing, read fan fic with that pair, consume fan art of that pair, etc.  However, I'm not campaigning on the forums for the MaleWarden version to be removed nor chastizing BW for including it nor asking them to refrain from making any future gal-lovin LI's female exlcusive in the future.

I actually think that would be stupid, given that it seems the female LIs open to both genders tend to be the more popular ones.  Therefore, thier chances of getting DLC (or being a squad mate in ME3 if we are going to talk about Liara) increase b/c of that.  If they were fem exclusive, I doubt they would be as popular.  This doesn't stop me from forming my highly subjective and biased opinion that the Fem version of the romance is soooo much better though

[Wishpig]

jwalker wrote...
Yeah, straight couples have such an easy time raising kids, happiness assured.
And yeah, kids of a straight couple never wonder who the father is...

I don't know who my father is

[syllogi]

jlb524 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Did you see the reaction from some Alistair fans to the intimation that Alistair and Leliana were romantically involved in the alternate reality of the Darkspawn Chronicles?  I don't think it's even a matter of sharing the LI with another gender...they just don't want their LI romancing anyone else, and somehow a gender switched version of Hawke doesn't qualify as "their" character anymore.

Especially now that the main character is voiced, I expect people to choose "sides" in the Male vs. Female protagonist debate, as people have regarding MaleShepard and FemaleShepard.  This, of course, will lead to romance options being seen as "right" for one version of Hawke over another.

I see this, but I think there's a difference between preferring one gender of the romance to the other (or even seeing it as 'the right one') and demanding that the romance for the other gender doesn't exist or that BW is awful for including it.

Personally, I think FemWarden/Leliana is 100000 x better than MaleWarden/Leliana and only play that pairing, read fan fic with that pair, consume fan art of that pair, etc.  However, I'm not campaigning on the forums for the MaleWarden version to be removed nor chastizing BW for including it nor asking them to refrain from making any future gal-lovin LI's female exlcusive in the future.

I actually think that would be stupid, given that it seems the female LIs open to both genders tend to be the more popular ones.  Therefore, thier chances of getting DLC (or being a squad mate in ME3 if we are going to talk about Liara) increase b/c of that.  If they were fem exclusive, I doubt they would be as popular.  This doesn't stop me from forming my highly subjective and biased opinion that the Fem version of the romance is soooo much better though

As someone who only plays females, I'm kind of in the same boat, I feel deeply that games are better with female protagonists...but I would *never* want to take away the ability to choose gender from anyone else. 

I just hope that we don't have a "Jack" situation in DA2, with Isabela.  It was kind of frustrating, to have Jack talk about sleeping with a woman in the past, but she won't even be civil with FemShepard after her loyalty mission.  It felt like she was one of those women who claim that they "don't get along" with other females, and relate more to men, but actually they don't even try to have female friends.  I'll be very sad if I can't romance Isabela with my LadyHawke, but I'll be even sadder if it's not possible for the characters to be good friends.

[Felfenix]

FemWarden/Leliana is wrong because... they can't have a stereotypical "happily ever after family" together? Neither can the MAJORITY of the hetero romances. Alistair dumps the Warden unless she's a Noble, or keeps her as a mistress... Yeah, real wholesome happy ending with kids there. Morrigan runs off with your baby, or Alistair/Loghain's depending on your choices, and most of the paths in Witch Hunt, if you even pursued it, don't lead to the paragon WASP family dynamic either.

Modifié par Felfenix, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:02 .

[Fidget6]

TeenZombie wrote...
I just hope that we don't have a "Jack" situation in DA2, with Isabela.

Was Jack actually bisexual though? I was always a bit confused about her sexuality. It seems to me though, that whatever kind of relationship Jack had with her previous er.... companions had nothing to do wth Jack's feelings towards them, so in that case, I don't think it necessarily had to do with her sexual orientation.  It was always a bit confusing though, because she says, "If you're talking about a boyfriend or a girlfriend, no." but then later says she's not a "ladies night" kinda girl (if you're playing femshep). Bah, whatever either way I didn't much care for Jack.

[lordhugorune]

I'm a gay man and personally, I don't care whether any given companion is gay, straight. or bi.

I wouldn't even care if there was not a single gay or bi male character who could romance a male player character (although it'd be nice if there was). My real concern is that if they make some characters bi or gay, it has to be believable - a gay romance should never be exactly the same as a straight one, but with gender changed in the dialogue - it would be better to not be in the game, rather than included as a token.

I liked the way it was done in DAO - I thought they had a good balance. And I didn't consider Zevran to be a token bisexual either - the romance was shallow, but the way it was implemented added depth to his character and that's the one thing that's really important here.

[CrookedAsylum]

Wishpig wrote...

jwalker wrote...
Yeah, straight couples have such an easy time raising kids, happiness assured.
And yeah, kids of a straight couple never wonder who the father is...

I don't know who my father is

Got ya' beat. I don't know either parent. HAH!

...
I'll be in my emo corner if you need me.

Modifié par CrookedAsylum, 19 janvier 2011 - 06:54 .

[Jimmy Fury]

lordhugorune wrote...

My real concern is that if they make some characters bi or gay, it has to be believable - a gay romance should never be exactly the same as a straight one, but with gender changed in the dialogue - it would be better to not be in the game, rather than included as a token.

See, that senitment is what I don't understand. Why is it "token" or unbelievable if the romance is exactly the same but with the gender changed in the dialogue? Why should the LI feel differently if the PC is a male or female?  Why should they behave differently depending on the sex of the person being romanced? I just don't get why the sex of the Warden or Hawke should make the LI act differently...
It just begs for the gay romance to become a big stereotype.

[Bryy_Miller]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

The Accused wrote...
I wonder how many games it will take before we even get a Gay party member: LI or not.

erm... just games in general? Not specifically Bioware games?
Fallout New Vegas has one right now.
and he's voiced by Zachary Levi so...

So. I need to play New Vegas again.

[upsettingshorts]

OT: Arcade Gannon, sexuality aside, was the most annoying companion in the game. After he said, "Ohh-kay, I'll do my best" with typical grating, irritated delivery when I went into crouch for the tenth time I shot him in the head.

I've still never tolerated him long enough to do his quest with the Remnants.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:46 .

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

OT: Arcade Gannon, sexuality aside, was the most annoying companion in the game. After he said, "Ohh-kay, I'll do my best" with typical grating, annoyed delivery when I went into crouch for the tenth time I shot him in the head.
I've still never tolerated him enough to do his quest with the Remnants.

Pfft. Arcade was win.

Now ED-E shooting random civilians. That was annoying.

[upsettingshorts]

I think I'd be fine with Arcade if I didn't play stealth characters almost exclusively. Like, if we were running around in power armor - then I wouldn't feel the need to shoot him in the face. But the lines he has when the player goes into stealth are the FNV equivalent of "Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back?" in DAO. Cringeworthy.

[AlexXIV]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think I'd be fine with Arcade if I didn't play stealth characters almost exclusively. Like, if we were running around in power armor - then I wouldn't feel the need to shoot him in the face. But the lines he has when the player goes into stealth are the FNV equivalent of "Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back?" in DAO. Cringeworthy.

Yeah quite annoying but so was the ghoul grandpa always complaining about his old bones. The only one I really liked was Cass anyway, maybe because she was a hot redhead, but her comments ala 'Shh. We are hunting ****heads.' And 'Bad guys won't see us comming.' were also priceless.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:54 .

[ankuu]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

The Accused wrote...
I wonder how many games it will take before we even get a Gay party member: LI or not.

erm... just games in general? Not specifically Bioware games?
Fallout New Vegas has one right now.
and he's voiced by Zachary Levi so...

So. I need to play New Vegas again.

Omg Zachary Levi! :wub:My heart melted when he sang in Tangled (the Disney movie).

[Jimmy Fury]

Oh dear what have I done...

[Bryy_Miller]

ankuu wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

The Accused wrote...
I wonder how many games it will take before we even get a Gay party member: LI or not.

erm... just games in general? Not specifically Bioware games?
Fallout New Vegas has one right now.
and he's voiced by Zachary Levi so...

So. I need to play New Vegas again.

Omg Zachary Levi! :wub:My heart melted when he sang in Tangled (the Disney movie).

It's two hours of him doing the AHA voice. It's solid gold.

[Wishpig]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

jwalker wrote...
Yeah, straight couples have such an easy time raising kids, happiness assured.
And yeah, kids of a straight couple never wonder who the father is...

I don't know who my father is

Got ya' beat. I don't know either parent. HAH!

...
I'll be in my emo corner if you need me.

No ya don't... I don't know who my Mom is either! But I can find out who she is at least... don't think I'll ever be able to find out who my pops is though.

You can stay in your emo corner along though! Life turned out damn good for me!

Modifié par Wishpig, 19 janvier 2011 - 09:48 .

[Ryzaki]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think I'd be fine with Arcade if I didn't play stealth characters almost exclusively. Like, if we were running around in power armor - then I wouldn't feel the need to shoot him in the face. But the lines he has when the player goes into stealth are the FNV equivalent of "Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back?" in DAO. Cringeworthy.

Ah *never used stealth if she could help it* I'm more of the BOOM type. XD

[CrookedAsylum]

AlexXIV wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think I'd be fine with Arcade if I didn't play stealth characters almost exclusively. Like, if we were running around in power armor - then I wouldn't feel the need to shoot him in the face. But the lines he has when the player goes into stealth are the FNV equivalent of "Can I get you a ladder, so you can get off my back?" in DAO. Cringeworthy.

Yeah quite annoying but so was the ghoul grandpa always complaining about his old bones. The only one I really liked was Cass anyway, maybe because she was a hot redhead, but her comments ala 'Shh. We are hunting ****heads.' And 'Bad guys won't see us comming.' were also priceless.

My favorite was Boone. Dude saved my ass more times than I could count when I kept running into Death Claw pockets.

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I think some just don't want to share their treasured LI with the other gender. But, as mentioned by others, I don't think it should matter what others do in their games.

I recall, after Jade Empire came out, there were a number of female gamers who were upset that their only LI, Sky, was shared with male players. His sexuality was subjective, but they felt their already small "share" of the romances was lessened by having him also available to male gamers (or female gamers playing male characters) in other games/realities.

Rational? Not really, especially considering that it involves a metagaming aspect that only someone who, say, comes to the forums or goes online to find out all the possibilities would even know about. But the element of possessiveness exists even so. Not that this is necessarily a reason to do or not do romances in such a manner, just that there's always going to be complaints from some corner.

I think it's more than not wanting to share. If you look at the Fenris thread some posters have commented that they don't want him to be bisexual because "he's not that type of character."

Just like bisexual women are often perceived as being sl*tish, bisexual men are sometimes perceived as being less masculine and more... scuzzy. It's a bit of a hold over from the 1980s when 'bisexual men and drug users' was many people's answer to 'Just how did HIV cross over from gay bathhouses to middle America?'