685 réponses à ce sujet

[silentassassin264]

David Gaider wrote...

Matchy Pointy wrote...
Couldnt female characters there also romance the princess (I suck at remembering names today)? Though maybe it was their only male LI that it was about.

Yes, it was that their only male romantic character was "tainted" by the fact that, in some games, he had a romance with male PC's-- even if he was straight in the game they were playing. Considering male players had two romances, this evidently compounded the insult.

Did every female gamer feel this way? No, not even close. Yet the laments were consistent, and perhaps tied more to the perception (at the time) of female gamers being a maligned minority given unfair balance in the romance department. Sound familiar?

Or you know, it could have been the fact that males had three potential love interests and females only had two.  That would you know...seem unfair if the only potential straight female romance was with a (metagamed) bisexual guy.  This is not really the greatest example because of that.  Dawn Star really unbalanced the scale because she was actually the only LI interest that was not bi (well if you meta, bi. you know what I mean).  If ladies had a straight Kang (lol), Hou (lmao), or rather just plain someone else to counter the fact that men could romance all the potential love interests (including both women at once) I doubt there would have been complaints about that.  But as it was, you have to admit that it was not exactly fair to roughly half of your audience.  It was not the same as having 2 bisexual romances in Origins so you had that one ss romance for either gender.  Females are not exactly a "niche" audience that it is a judgement call about diverting resources and that is how it was treated in Jade Empire...although I still can't complain.  I love that game to pieces.

Also what Maria said. 

Modifié par silentassassin264, 20 janvier 2011 - 01:12 .

[Ploppy]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

See, that senitment is what I don't understand. Why is it "token" or unbelievable if the romance is exactly the same but with the gender changed in the dialogue? Why should the LI feel differently if the PC is a male or female?  Why should they behave differently depending on the sex of the person being romanced? I just don't get why the sex of the Warden or Hawke should make the LI act differently...
It just begs for the gay romance to become a big stereotype.

It already is.

[Matchy Pointy]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Jimmy Fury wrote...

The Accused wrote...
I wonder how many games it will take before we even get a Gay party member: LI or not.

erm... just games in general? Not specifically Bioware games?
Fallout New Vegas has one right now.
and he's voiced by Zachary Levi so...

So. I need to play New Vegas again.

It has two even, Veronica as well is gay (or atleast have fallen in love with a woman before).

[s0meguy6665]

jlb524 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Did you see the reaction from some Alistair fans to the intimation that Alistair and Leliana were romantically involved in the alternate reality of the Darkspawn Chronicles?  I don't think it's even a matter of sharing the LI with another gender...they just don't want their LI romancing anyone else, and somehow a gender switched version of Hawke doesn't qualify as "their" character anymore.

Especially now that the main character is voiced, I expect people to choose "sides" in the Male vs. Female protagonist debate, as people have regarding MaleShepard and FemaleShepard.  This, of course, will lead to romance options being seen as "right" for one version of Hawke over another.

I see this, but I think there's a difference between preferring one gender of the romance to the other (or even seeing it as 'the right one') and demanding that the romance for the other gender doesn't exist or that BW is awful for including it.

Personally, I think FemWarden/Leliana is 100000 x better than MaleWarden/Leliana and only play that pairing, read fan fic with that pair, consume fan art of that pair, etc.  However, I'm not campaigning on the forums for the MaleWarden version to be removed nor chastizing BW for including it nor asking them to refrain from making any future gal-lovin LI's female exlcusive in the future.

I actually think that would be stupid, given that it seems the female LIs open to both genders tend to be the more popular ones.  Therefore, thier chances of getting DLC (or being a squad mate in ME3 if we are going to talk about Liara) increase b/c of that.  If they were fem exclusive, I doubt they would be as popular.  This doesn't stop me from forming my highly subjective and biased opinion that the Fem version of the romance is soooo much better though

What differences are there between Liara's romance between maleshep and femaleshep? (i only played with maleshep)

[s0meguy6665]

As a heterosexual male who would like to play as femhawke I kind of agree with the sentiment of this thread because I'd still want to romance the female companions. Then again, it just wouldn't feel right if every character were bisexual... So in the end I would rather have it this way. We'll just have to download a mod to be able to romance who we want. In fact I might even wait for such a mod before playing for the first time...

[Stormghost]

s0meguy6665 wrote...

 We'll just have to download a mod to be able to romance who we want. In fact I might even wait for such a mod before playing for the first time...

 Not everyone plays the game on PC.  No mods for the PS3/360 versions.

I understand what Mr Gaider said earlier about players wanting to know the 'real' character, and that they find it hard to accept that in someone else's playthrough, the character may be of a different sexuality.  It just comes down to a balancing act.  I would prefer it if all characters were potentially bisexual (as I compared a few pages back to The Sims), but I understand why that isn't a practical option (because the characters then would not have 'canon' sexualities) so I think it makes sense to just have a couple of bisexual love interests, to keep the players who like everything to be canon happy.

[AlexXIV]

davidk1991 wrote...

s0meguy6665 wrote...

 We'll just have to download a mod to be able to romance who we want. In fact I might even wait for such a mod before playing for the first time...

 Not everyone plays the game on PC.  No mods for the PS3/360 versions.

I understand what Mr Gaider said earlier about players wanting to know the 'real' character, and that they find it hard to accept that in someone else's playthrough, the character may be of a different sexuality.  It just comes down to a balancing act.  I would prefer it if all characters were potentially bisexual (as I compared a few pages back to The Sims), but I understand why that isn't a practical option (because the characters then would not have 'canon' sexualities) so I think it makes sense to just have a couple of bisexual love interests, to keep the players who like everything to be canon happy.

I will never get over the fact that people do have a gaming console in their house but no PC. A PC does have more uses than a console and it is not really that much more expensive. Not to mention games are usually cheaper as well. That said, if you play on console it is your own fault.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 20 janvier 2011 - 02:27 .

[CrookedAsylum]

AlexXIV wrote...

I will never get over the fact that people do have a gaming console in their house but no PC. A PC does have more uses than a console and it is not really that much more expensive. Not to mention games are usually cheaper as well. That said, if you play on console it is your own fault.

Or, you know, the console was a gift and you're a poor enough college student that can only afford the occasional game and not an entirely new PC.

Be a bit more of an ass, man.

[AlexXIV]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I will never get over the fact that people do have a gaming console in their house but no PC. A PC does have more uses than a console and it is not really that much more expensive. Not to mention games are usually cheaper as well. That said, if you play on console it is your own fault.

Or, you know, the console was a gift and you're a poor enough college student that can only afford the occasional game and not an entirely new PC.

Be a bit more of an ass, man.

Well my PC is 3 years old and still does work with most new games. Also I work alot on my PC, it is not only for games. Also I think in most cases console players are just a lazy sort. They prefer to sit on their couch in front of the TV to play. And my being an ass might have to do that Bioware already restricts game mechanics just because of consoles. But you people just can't stop crying can you? If you need more money get a job or something.

[CrookedAsylum]

AlexXIV wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I will never get over the fact that people do have a gaming console in their house but no PC. A PC does have more uses than a console and it is not really that much more expensive. Not to mention games are usually cheaper as well. That said, if you play on console it is your own fault.

Or, you know, the console was a gift and you're a poor enough college student that can only afford the occasional game and not an entirely new PC.

Be a bit more of an ass, man.

Well my PC is 3 years old and still does work with most new games. Also I work alot on my PC, it is not only for games. Also I think in most cases console players are just a lazy sort. They prefer to sit on their couch in front of the TV to play. And my being an ass might have to do that Bioware already restricts game mechanics just because of consoles. But you people just can't stop crying can you? If you need more money get a job or something.

I have a job, thanks, I work fifty hours a week to maintain being a full time college student, so I would hate to see what you call productive. I pay for my own books and tuition, so games and gaming platforms are secondary. And the laptop works perfectly well for what I need it to do; research for courses and writing those f--king fifteen-to-twenty paged essays after ten hour shifts, so I'm not saving up that kind of money for something I don't need.

So not only are you an ass, but you're a generalizing ass who can't tell his own ass from his face.

And demographically, console players make up the majority and pay more.

No, I'm not saying that PC players should get the shaft, but I do believe all players across all platforms should be treated equally.

[AlexXIV]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I will never get over the fact that people do have a gaming console in their house but no PC. A PC does have more uses than a console and it is not really that much more expensive. Not to mention games are usually cheaper as well. That said, if you play on console it is your own fault.

Or, you know, the console was a gift and you're a poor enough college student that can only afford the occasional game and not an entirely new PC.

Be a bit more of an ass, man.

Well my PC is 3 years old and still does work with most new games. Also I work alot on my PC, it is not only for games. Also I think in most cases console players are just a lazy sort. They prefer to sit on their couch in front of the TV to play. And my being an ass might have to do that Bioware already restricts game mechanics just because of consoles. But you people just can't stop crying can you? If you need more money get a job or something.

I have a job, thanks, I work fifty hours a week to maintain being a full time college student, so I would hate to see what you call productive. I pay for my own books and tuition, so games and gaming platforms are secondary. And the laptop works perfectly well for what I need it to do; research for courses and writing those f--king fifteen-to-twenty paged essays after ten hour shifts, so I'm not saving up that kind of money for something I don't need.

So not only are you an ass, but you're a generalizing ass who can't tell his own ass from his face.

And demographically, console players make up the majority and pay more.

No, I'm not saying that PC players should get the shaft, but I do believe all players across all platforms should be treated equally.

I don't know what kind of job you have but if you work 50 hours a week and can't afford a PC every 3 years then maybe you should spend less money for party? Anyway, I don't see why it should concern me. I find it kind of ridiculous of people to complain how poor they are and how little time they have when they are still playing video games.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Making ever characters sexualtiy subjective is a poor way to go at things.



Since you basicly have to write a different set of dialogue and personality, depending who's romancing it. You're basicly writing 2 charcaters..



you might as well write 2 distinct characters, instead of one "moldable" one, so to speak. More bang for the same amount of buck.



And, as I said before, Zev and Leli didn't have any sexuality or personaltiy change, depending on who romanced them.

[CrookedAsylum]

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what kind of job you have but if you work 50 hours a week and can't afford a PC every 3 years then maybe you should spend less money for party? Anyway, I don't see why it should concern me. I find it kind of ridiculous of people to complain how poor they are and how little time they have when they are still playing video games.

I don't spend money on parties. Hell, I don't even spend money on alcohol. And as I said; I am not saving up for something I don't need. 50+ hours a week for work plus 25+ hours for courses and course work leaves me very little spare time, but some. I am not taking on more hours of work just to afford a new PC every three years - which is ridiculous and stupidly shallow for you to even hint such - because if I lose what little spare time I have, I'll go insane.

That being said, you got called out on being a generalizing ass who doesn't know sh*t from ******, and I'm done with this.

[arcane-weirdo]

@ AlexXIV

I agree completely with your comment on console players, we're so lazy! Sitting in front of a desk is so much more active than sitting on a couch! *end sarcasm*

[Count Viceroy]

arcane-weirdo wrote...

@ AlexXIV
I agree completely with your comment on console players, we're so lazy! Sitting in front of a desk is so much more active than sitting on a couch! *end sarcasm*

CONSOLE VS PC FIGHT GO 

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 20 janvier 2011 - 03:16 .

[AlexXIV]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what kind of job you have but if you work 50 hours a week and can't afford a PC every 3 years then maybe you should spend less money for party? Anyway, I don't see why it should concern me. I find it kind of ridiculous of people to complain how poor they are and how little time they have when they are still playing video games.

I don't spend money on parties. Hell, I don't even spend money on alcohol. And as I said; I am not saving up for something I don't need. 50+ hours a week for work plus 25+ hours for courses and course work leaves me very little spare time, but some. I am not taking on more hours of work just to afford a new PC every three years - which is ridiculous and stupidly shallow for you to even hint such - because if I lose what little spare time I have, I'll go insane.

That being said, you got called out on being a generalizing ass who doesn't know sh*t from ******, and I'm done with this.

Right I am done with it too and I am alright with being an ass aswell. I just wish people would leave their private life where it belongs, at home.

[arcane-weirdo]

Private life? that was his entire private life? all we know is he's in college, and he doesn't have much money. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you kinda asked him.....

[CrookedAsylum]

arcane-weirdo wrote...

Private life? that was his entire private life? all we know is he's in college, and he doesn't have much money. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you kinda asked him.....

Eh, he didn't ask necessarily, but made incorrect assumptions that I wanted to rectify; best way I knew how was with my own experiences, so that's what I used.

[DJBare]

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what kind of job you have but if you work 50 hours a week and can't afford a PC every 3 years then maybe you should spend less money for party? Anyway, I don't see why it should concern me. I find it kind of ridiculous of people to complain how poor they are and how little time they have when they are still playing video games.

I'm a pc gamer, and now I see why folk call us elitist, way to go <_<

[Jimmy Fury]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Making ever characters sexualtiy subjective is a poor way to go at things.

Since you basicly have to write a different set of dialogue and personality, depending who's romancing it. You're basicly writing 2 charcaters..

you might as well write 2 distinct characters, instead of one "moldable" one, so to speak. More bang for the same amount of buck.

And, as I said before, Zev and Leli didn't have any sexuality or personaltiy change, depending on who romanced them.

If Zevran and Leliana's personalities didn't have to change depending on who romanced them, why do you say the writers would have to write two different personalities?

A character with subjective sexuality can be done very simply be not having them talk about their sexual history in any great detail or without outright announcing how they like both sexes.
Take Leliana for example. If she never vocalized that she likes boys and girls then her sexuality would have been subjective. It would have been based entirely on implications and determined only by the players interpretation of what is implied.

Now i'm not saying everyone should be like that and I certainly disagree with the OP in that respect. But subjective sexuality could be useful in some cases. It would certainly circumvent the biphobia of players and the potential for writers or devs to dip into stereotypes by making all bisexual companions sl*ts to "prove" they're bisexual.
(note: Not saying that's what happened, only that the potential exists)

[Ryzaki]

Eh I don't care what console you play on as long as you don't expect other platforms to be held back at the expense of your own.

Basically though "OMG its not FAIR that the PC has better looking graphics and mods so the game should look the exact same as it does on console and be unmoddable111!!!"

On the other hand if you just want the console you're playing on to look better right on. If you're the former GTFO .

Modifié par Ryzaki, 20 janvier 2011 - 03:33 .

[CrookedAsylum]

DJBare wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I don't know what kind of job you have but if you work 50 hours a week and can't afford a PC every 3 years then maybe you should spend less money for party? Anyway, I don't see why it should concern me. I find it kind of ridiculous of people to complain how poor they are and how little time they have when they are still playing video games.

I'm a pc gamer, and now I see why folk call us elitist, way to go <_<

As a console player, I promise I recognize that he's part of the small, pestilent minority. 

On topic, I don't think it would be possible to make every LI "bisexual." Not without the experience being cheapened, I don't think. Kind of like a dolled up prostitute that suits the clients needs based on coin.

With that being said, I have nothing against genuine bisexual characters. Zevran one of my favorite characters in DAO, and I found Leliana to be endearing.

[CrookedAsylum]

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh I don't care what console you play on as long as you don't expect other platforms to be held back at the expense of your own.

Basically though "OMG its not FAIR that the PC has better looking graphics and mods so the game should look the exact same as it does on console and be unmoddable111!!!"

On the other hand if you just want the console you're playing on to look better right on. If you're the former GTFO .

I never meant to imply that the PC should be held back, and I apologize it came off that way. I simply meant that all platforms should be given the same careful treatment, without one being being shoved aside for the other.

[In Exile]

Jimmy Fury wrote...
Now i'm not saying everyone should be like that and I certainly disagree with the OP in that respect. But subjective sexuality could be useful in some cases. It would certainly circumvent the biphobia of players and the potential for writers or devs to dip into stereotypes by making all bisexual companions sl*ts to "prove" they're bisexual.
(note: Not saying that's what happened, only that the potential exists)

I don't see how that would work (in terms of reducing biphobia).

Most players can't see bisexual romance content without a new PC, and if you tie subjective sexuality to PC gender, that wouldn't avoid situations like Zevran (which lead to the biphoia, I think; I mean, I can't say for sure because I don't have an issue with the sexuality of characters).

Let's look at Leliana or Zevran.

The only way you would know Zevran was into guys... is if you played a guy. But in this case you would not know Leliana was into girls.

The only way you would know Leliana was into girls... is if you played a girl. But in this case you wouldn't know Zevran was into guys.

Whether or not sexual preferences are fixed (i.e. not tied to PC gender) you still can't actually see the full spectrum of preferences without playing multiple PCs of multiple genders.

The objection, IMO, doesn't make sense to be in terms of content, because there isn't a content difference in terms of who romances who.

I think rather what the OP wanted (and uses the word bisexually wrongly) is a character who is either 100% straight and acts it or 100% gay and acts it based on PC gender.

So basically Zevran wouldn't go all, "I like you, but I'm normally more into girls".

[MorningBird]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well my PC is 3 years old and still does work with most new games. Also I work alot on my PC, it is not only for games. Also I think in most cases console players are just a lazy sort. They prefer to sit on their couch in front of the TV to play. And my being an ass might have to do that Bioware already restricts game mechanics just because of consoles. But you people just can't stop crying can you? If you need more money get a job or something.

I found this especially funny, as my 360 is hooked up to my computer monitor.

On topic though, I see where the OP is coming from.  I've wondered the same thing several times myself.  Though, that may just be because of how I choose to play the game.  I get that everyone's different and has a entirely unique play styles.

For example: I don't ask every new person that I meet in real life what their sexual orientation is, as if they were undergoing some sort of qualification exam.  I tend to just let it come up/be revealed on it's own.  That being said, I do the same with Dragon Age characters.  I'm not going to ask them which team they bat for unless I'm interested.  Otherwise, they're more than welcome to explore/bring it up on their own.

Were all the characters made bisexual, I imagine I'd get more replayability out of my games, as from a romantic/companion aspect, I'd learn/get something new with each different playthrough.

Regardless, BioWare hasn't let me down in terms of S/S relationships yet.  I liked both Leliana and Zevran, so I doubt I'll have any complaints this time around. =)

What I really hate is the wait.  There seems to be a truly interesting cast line-up for Dragon Age 2, and I'm pretty excited to see just who the S/S options are.