685 réponses à ce sujet

[prazision]

New Vegas wasn't made by the same team as Oblivion, I really see no particular reason to compare the two. Granted, I only played a few hours of Oblivion but just did not enjoy it one bit.

A gameworld doesn't have to be large to be reactive and immersive, though. Just look at Yakuza 3, for example.

I was simply saying, BioWareEA seems to be putting the focus more and more on the characters. For my most recent playthrough of Origins, I played on Casual (even though I found Normal and Hard easy, they just made common encounters last longer without making them more enjoyable). I did so because I wanted to get to the key plot decisions and see how I could affect the gameworld in different ways than I had before. With the decision to have Hawke be a specific person with a specific framed narrative, I'm left hoping the companion interaction is greatly improved, since that's where it seems to be headed.

[Direwolf0294]

I hope they don't make every LI bisexual. It would really ruin immersion for me. Is everyone in real life bi? No they aren't. I say have:
1 straight male
1 straight female
1 bi male
1 bi female
1 gay male
1 lesbian female

Everyone should have enough options that way without turning every LI into a college student who wants to experiment or a drunk girl at a party. I'm not saying that all bi people are college students or drunk but I am saying that by making all characters bi I feel you are insulting straight, gay and bi people.

[HolyAvenger]

Well in Origins you got 4 LIs, 2 straight and 2 bi of each gender. Given that they didn't think it was necessary to script more romances, that's a pretty decent balance.

[generalkorrd]

I think that this issue of LI's has been blown way out of proportion. Too many people are focused on who gets to sleep with who, and who is gay, and "oh no there arent enough gays for me". It's a freakin video game, the romanticism is a small part of the story. I wish they would take that completely out of this game, it seems to be more of an issue than what it's worth, and has drawn all the wierdos to this forum, trying to make a statement about their sexuality. Go find some gay porn and enjoy that, or better yet instead of paying 60 bucks to Bioware, go pay the 60 to one of those webcam girls/guys, and record the encounter.

Edit: just doing a quick scan on the first page of threads in this forum, out of 20 threads(not including the stickies) 6 of them have something to do with LI or romance options in the title. Thats almost 1/3! Ya think it's going a little overboard yet?

Modifié par generalkorrd, 11 janvier 2011 - 01:12 .

[jsachun]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Well in Origins you got 4 LIs, 2 straight and 2 bi of each gender. Given that they didn't think it was necessary to script more romances, that's a pretty decent balance.

Yeah, and what's the chance of getting group sex in DA2? So why bother with a bi, when gay/les will do, if your looking for homosexuality. 

[Sidney]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I hope they don't make every LI bisexual. It would really ruin immersion for me. Is everyone in real life bi? No they aren't. I say have:
1 straight male
1 straight female
1 bi male
1 bi female
1 gay male
1 lesbian female

Everyone should have enough options that way without turning every LI into a college student who wants to experiment or a drunk girl at a party. I'm not saying that all bi people are college students or drunk but I am saying that by making all characters bi I feel you are insulting straight, gay and bi people.

At the same time does it feel "odd" that your party is conviently precisely diverse enough to give everyone options? The whole thing is overblown and, frankly, has become a bit silly - not the homosexuality althought that's downright goofy at this point- but the forced into the game LI part of things from bioware. It is like just part of a checklist now rather it has a real integration or not.

[prazision]

I'm pretty sure "romance-obsessed fans" started long ago with Tali and ME in general. It's hardly a new thing, and frankly they should know enough to expect it by now.

[jsachun]

prazision wrote...

I'm pretty sure "romance-obsessed fans" started long ago with Tali and ME in general. It's hardly a new thing, and frankly they should know enough to expect it by now.

Maybe it should be a liitle unmarked quest to be able to turn any companion of your choice in to the sex thing of your dream, regardless of your & its gender.  

Modifié par jsachun, 11 janvier 2011 - 01:19 .

[prazision]

Homosexuality is "goofy"? When you include sexuality in a game, it's nice to include the major flavors. Nobody is asking for S&M or furries (at least, I hope not).

I think some of you severely underestimate the number of gay/bi gamers, and gay/bi people in general.

[prazision]

edit: dual postin'

Modifié par prazision, 11 janvier 2011 - 01:22 .

[Sidney]

prazision wrote...

Homosexuality is "goofy"? When you include sexuality in a game, it's nice to include the major flavors. Nobody is asking for S&M or furries (at least, I hope not).
I think some of you severely underestimate the number of gay/bi gamers, and gay/bi people in general.

Nice misread, the cries for it have become goofy.

As for "major" flavors the breakdown in the real world according to any serious research is that no more than 6-10% (and the 10% is a high end estimate) are non-heterosexual. That means there is, honestly, only one "major" flavor out there. I think that reality is where the cries for all flavors of LI get silly. You like have a higher % of people into some form of S&M so that would be more major.

Like I said, I've gotten so bored with the LI side of things and the ease/obviousness of advancing the relationships and the sort of lockstep timing with them so I'm perhaps a bit cranky on the issue.

[Ziggeh]

Sidney wrote...
As for "major" flavors the breakdown in the real world according to any serious research is that no more than 6-10% (and the 10% is a high end estimate) are non-heterosexual.

What percentage of people in the real world can throw flames from their hands?

Modifié par Ziggeh, 11 janvier 2011 - 01:37 .

[prazision]

Actually 10% was the low end estimate as of over 20 years ago, when people were less likely to admit it. And as I said earlier, upwards of 25% have had same-sex experiences. Sexuality is complicated; people can be overwhelmingly straight but still have specific or occasional homosexual urges; such people are unlikely to identify as bisexual, but technically, they are.

[Thiefy]

prazision wrote...

Several of you seem to have missed the point of what I actually said: Since every LI is attracted to the PC no matter what (a noble beautiful Elf or a mean-spirited greedy Dwarf) why not extend this to gender?
LIs would not literally all be "bisexual", but rather, their orientation would match up with your character in your game.
Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?
If you, reading this, are a straight male - are you attracted to every woman you meet, regardless of personality or appearance? Of course not. So if the LI is already capable of being attracted to any PC, what is the logical reason behind not extending that to gender?

Clearly you need a lesson on The Four Types of Love.
Just because someone admires you, it does not mean they want to have sex with you. Or view you as a companion to spend the rest of their life with.

[prazision]

That is completely irrelevant to the specific point I was making which you quoted. Alistair will sleep with any Warden who is female and picks a few correct dialogue options and gives him presents. I assume the LIs in DA2 will work in a fundamentally similar way.

[eucatastrophe]

I am of two minds on this issue.

For it:
+Great for me, as a gay person IRL. My roleplaying experience is much more personal, thus more enjoyable
+I don't feel "restricted" to a certain type of character (gay guys only had Zevran who is definitely a character, and the same case is true for Leliana who might also not appeal to every lesbian female)
+I face heartbreak enough IRL when it comes to relationships. It's a little painful to have it within harmless wishfulfilling roleplaying.

Potential Justification:
+Sexuality in many IPs are fluid (eg. Anne Rice's world, classical ancient mythologies)
+people are attracted to people, and sexuality is largely a social construct (a sort of pansexuality)

Against it:
+Weird to have every character hit on your PC because it's unrealistic and thus detracts from the roleplaying gaming experience
+Chararcters' sexual and romatic pasts are a part of who they are as characters and thus cannot be ignored.

Potential Justification:
+Realistic
+everyone's happy (on paper)

~

So I am divided
Edit: Given how things have played out, I just hope we have a gay LI. *sigh*

Modifié par eucatastrophe, 11 janvier 2011 - 02:05 .

[Thiefy]

prazision wrote...

That is completely irrelevant to the specific point I was making which you quoted. Alistair will sleep with any Warden who is female and picks a few correct dialogue options and gives him presents. I assume the LIs in DA2 will work in a fundamentally similar way.

No it's not irrelevent because like what other people said, it's more about personality. Alistair will not just sleep with any female, it has to be a female who is in good standing with him either through conversation and forming a friendship or good deeds through which he admires you. Presents aren't even needed.

What you are talking about is making all NPCs available for sex with anyone, which most people dislike for obvious reasons.

Alistair isn't gay. He can become close to a male warden and form a deep friendship or brotherhood (storge, phileo) but he is only attracted to females (eros). It's the same with Morrigan, except with males, while Leli and Zev can feel all three with both male and female.

[Xewaka]

This is one of those things which is best left to the modding community.

[In Exile]

prazision wrote...
First, people keep saying that sexual preference is a major component of personality, and I'm just not seeing that in the previous game or this one. Second, that's getting into slippery territory, the kind where people claim to have "gaydar" that allows them to deduce sexual preference from the way someone acts. That's absurd.
As to "effectively making everyone bisexual", how is that any less realistic from "making every woman attracted to Hawke, regardless of what he looks or acts like"?

\\

The bold is untrue, and has always been untrue in a Bioware game. You can, by being a jerkass, not ever have a romance with a character. Romances absolutely trigger based on how you act. In DA:O, they trigger based on approval. Fail to get positive approval (do not give gifts + insult) and you will not have a romance.

The game always tells the player the are attractive. This is Bioware convention. There are specific lines in the game about how attractive the player is. That's as much a feature as the player (for example) being a Warden.

So as it turns out, they go for the player becuase the player is Always Attractive and only if the player is nice.

[Ziggeh]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Alistair isn't gay. He can become close to a male warden and form a deep friendship or brotherhood (storge, phileo) but he is only attracted to females (eros). It's the same with Morrigan, except with males, while Leli and Zev can feel all three with both male and female.

Out of curiosity, would people have a problem with a toggle? (I know, I know, not suggesting, just interested in response) If, for example you could set the entire playthrough to gay, straight or bisexual.

I guess what I'm asking is to what extent that potential, and other peoples experience affects your own, would the fact that for other people a character might be gay change your opinion of a character who for you was entirely straight?

[ErichHartmann]

I'm sure a "free love" mod will be released for DAII which will flag your character as the opposite sex for straight romances.

[Xewaka]

Ziggeh wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Alistair isn't gay. He can become close to a male warden and form a deep friendship or brotherhood (storge, phileo) but he is only attracted to females (eros). It's the same with Morrigan, except with males, while Leli and Zev can feel all three with both male and female.

Out of curiosity, would people have a problem with a toggle? (I know, I know, not suggesting, just interested in response) If, for example you could set the entire playthrough to gay, straight or bisexual.
I guess what I'm asking is to what extent that potential, and other peoples experience affects your own, would the fact that for other people a character might be gay change your opinion of a character who for you was entirely straight?

Keeping with the Alistair example you mention, him being gay would probably cause some people to draw an inappropiate conclusion with his infatuation with Duncan (which as it is now, comes from a combination of father figure plus the catalizer in a change to a better life), turning what is considered familiar love (philios) into romantic love (eros) (I may have the greek terms wrong, but I hope you catch my meaning).
It's not the conclusion I'd draw, but I'm trying to point out that sexual orientation might cause some stablished relationship to be perceived in a different light.

[Wittand25]

Ziggeh wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Alistair isn't gay. He can become close to a male warden and form a deep friendship or brotherhood (storge, phileo) but he is only attracted to females (eros). It's the same with Morrigan, except with males, while Leli and Zev can feel all three with both male and female.

Out of curiosity, would people have a problem with a toggle? (I know, I know, not suggesting, just interested in response) If, for example you could set the entire playthrough to gay, straight or bisexual.

I guess what I'm asking is to what extent that potential, and other peoples experience affects your own, would the fact that for other people a character might be gay change your opinion of a character who for you was entirely straight?

That would require writing three different versions (hetero-, bi- and homosexual) for every companion. For example Alistair´s explanation for still being a virgin does not make sense for a gay or bisexual man. Zevran´s stories require him to be bisexual ( He will tell you about sex he had with both male and female marks). Also the banter would need to be rewrote to fit. (E.g. In the royal bastard banter Alistair uses Zevran´s bisexuality to shut him up) Taking all that into account it is simply too much work to fit all the LIs for all orientations.

[Ziggeh]

Wittand25 wrote...

That would require writing three different versions (hetero-, bi- and homosexual) for every companion. For example Alistair´s explanation for still being a virgin does not make sense for a gay or bisexual man. Zevran´s stories require him to be bisexual ( He will tell you about sex he had with both male and female marks). Also the banter would need to be rewrote to fit. (E.g. In the royal bastard banter Alistair uses Zevran´s bisexuality to shut him up) Taking all that into account it is simply too much work to fit all the LIs for all orientations.

Indeed, and I'm not suggesting it's something they could or should do; I'm interested in the extent that meta information effects people's understanding of a character from one playthrough to the next, as most of the objections raised here and elsewhere are based on the effect it would have rather than resources (which is, we are to understand, the main issue).

[LadyJaneGrey]

Ziggeh wrote...

Out of curiosity, would people have a problem with a toggle? (I know, I know, not suggesting, just interested in response) If, for example you could set the entire playthrough to gay, straight or bisexual.

Not sure I like the idea of a toggle; it would feel a little like the player has a sign around his/her neck declaring "if you don't fit my specific criteria, don't approach me" the entire game.  I want the characters to be who they are, not who I set them to be in the CC screen; Zevran would not be Zevran if he didn't hit on the Warden.

Edited to add: I don't care who snogs whom in a different playthrough.  It's none of my business.

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 11 janvier 2011 - 03:03 .