685 réponses à ce sujet

[kalassy]

I don't really want every person to be bi. Though it would be nice if the choices were a bit expanded.... Or hell, just even.

[RosaAquafire]

I don't really want everyone to be bi, because I think what I appreciated most about Zevran and Leliana was that their sexuality was actually a part of their characters. It didn't feel like having the option there just to be there, arbitrarily assigned. I really felt like both of them WERE actual bisexuals, and that made their same sex romances a lot more real and personal feeling.

I don't think I'd mind every relationship being bi if there was that sort of actual personality behind it, but ... still. Morrigan, for instance -- I totally bought her being 100% straight. I liked that about her. If she had been bi, that wouldn't have seemed in character for her.

Just my two cents

[Katana_Master]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

A bit too late, pal.

Pretty much.  We have about two months to release, I believe.  At this point, they're pretty much done with the game, and focusing on production and advertisment.  I'd be willing to bet the only changes they are currently making are bug-fixes.

[standardpack]

prazision wrote...

Several of you seem to have missed the point of what I actually said: Since every LI is attracted to the PC no matter what (a noble beautiful Elf or a mean-spirited greedy Dwarf) why not extend this to gender?
LIs would not literally all be "bisexual", but rather, their orientation would match up with your character in your game.
Again, think about this logically: If Alistair falls in love with the Warden no matter what she looks or acts like (except for extreme actions like the Ashes choice) then why is it strange to apply that to gender as well?
If you, reading this, are a straight male - are you attracted to every woman you meet, regardless of personality or appearance? Of course not. So if the LI is already capable of being attracted to any PC, what is the logical reason behind not extending that to gender?

Just because I'm not attracted to every female doesn't mean I'm gonna start finding the opposite sex attractive.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Every character should be bi-sexual, bi-polar, bilateral, vote bipartisan, bi-dextrous (ambidextrous) and ride a bicycle. Now THAT would be a game!

[standardpack]

Katana_Master wrote...

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

A bit too late, pal.

Pretty much.  We have about two months to release, I believe.  At this point, they're pretty much done with the game, and focusing on production and advertisment.  I'd be willing to bet the only changes they are currently making are bug-fixes.

Which you know isn't going to work out too well because DAO and DAA STILL have bugs that need fixing.

[TheTraina]

oh lord, strange ideas come up in this forum sometimes

Modifié par TheTraina, 11 janvier 2011 - 11:00 .

[prazision]

Liable****sman wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

We can already change how characters act, what their motivations are, and how they see the world. That and in every Bioware can you can alter their beliefs with a few well placed words. So why not have the option to seduce those of the same gender that were sure that they didn't swing that way untill they met you?

For the same reason that homosexuality isn't "cured", regardless of how much right-wing nutjobs want it to be.

It's not about "curing" them of being gay or straight, it's "opening their eyes". Many people do not come to terms with being homosexual until well into their adulthood, and even have marriages and children beforehand. Why would it be so odd in a fantasy roleplaying game? It would not be hugely different than the PC opening Morrigan's eyes to the concept that she can be friends with another human being; it's something she had simply never considered before. You can even go back to Viconia and how the PC radically changed her.

[Big Blue Car]

Every character should be bisexual, why would a game arbitrarily limit a single player game to exclude gay and bisexual players from having the same experience heteronormative players get?

[darrylzero]

prazision wrote...

Liable****sman wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

We can already change how characters act, what their motivations are, and how they see the world. That and in every Bioware can you can alter their beliefs with a few well placed words. So why not have the option to seduce those of the same gender that were sure that they didn't swing that way untill they met you?

For the same reason that homosexuality isn't "cured", regardless of how much right-wing nutjobs want it to be.

It's not about "curing" them of being gay or straight, it's "opening their eyes". Many people do not come to terms with being homosexual until well into their adulthood, and even have marriages and children beforehand. Why would it be so odd in a fantasy roleplaying game? It would not be hugely different than the PC opening Morrigan's eyes to the concept that she can be friends with another human being; it's something she had simply never considered before. You can even go back to Viconia and how the PC radically changed her.

Fair enough, but workiing with that in a way that felt real would:

1) Require a great deal of writing specific to the same-sex romance, which is what we set out trying to avoid.  Right?

2) Require the writers to be able to write *that character* coming to terms with these feelings, which it seems clear the writers are not able to do and/or interested in doing.

There's still a tradeoff here, because of the economics of the situation.  Either you get plausibly bisexual characters, or you get characters who happen to be bisexual (or possibly two of each, I suppose).  But I think 4+ plausibly bisexual characters is not in the cards. 

[darrylzero]

prazision wrote...

Beocat, you speak of "variety" but as I expressed in my last post, there is precious little of that. Zevran wasn't gay, he was bisexual. I would bet every dollar I have that there will never be a strictly gay LI in a BioWareEA game ever again.

You keep saying "ever again."  Who was there before?

Regardless of which character I am forgetting from the past, I think you may well be right.  I think it's too bad, but I also think it's natural, given the economics of the situation.  The one nice thought that I took from that recent thread on these issues that got so heated, though, was that at least Bioware is allowing its players to create plausibly gay PCs.  It may be unfortunate that these gay PCs have to romance bi NPCs, but I don't see any real way around it.  The necessary financial justification just doesn't seem to be there.

[Todd23]

On sexual orientation, I was very pleased wth Origins, but it's true that sometimes it gets confusing, like when I'm nice to Leliana, if I'm not as mean as possible when she confesses to me, we're suddenly in a relationship. Having "sexual orientation" be a trait you pick at character creation is a fantastic idea. I vote yes on that ballet.

[Noilly Prat]

darrylzero wrote...

prazision wrote...

Beocat, you speak of "variety" but as I expressed in my last post, there is precious little of that. Zevran wasn't gay, he was bisexual. I would bet every dollar I have that there will never be a strictly gay LI in a BioWareEA game ever again.

You keep saying "ever again."  Who was there before?

[...]

I guess Juhani.  But, yeah, that's a pretty borderline example.  Especially since some of her "romantic" dialogues accidentally triggered regardless of the player's sex, although this may be something that was fixed in the PC release (I played the Xbox version).

[AngelicMachinery]

I swing both ways and I even think this is a bad idea.

[prazision]

I thought Jade Empire had a gay male romance that wasn't bisexual, but my memory could be wrong.

I don't think I buy the reasoning that straight players always have access to every opoosite-sex LI because there would be a substantial sales dropoff if Leliana had been gay. If even one person would not buy the game due to that, they should probably re-examine their game buying habits.

[Noilly Prat]

Jade Empire spoilers, sort of:

As far as I know, the contents of Sky's loins were available to male and female PCs in Jade Empire.  Although, I know that secondhand, as I haven't yet played a female character in that game.  I think he is the only "straight" option female PCs get, though.  Also, he was a widower.

[Le_Saboteur]

 I can absolutely understand the feeling behind this, but I just can't see it happening, and I don't particularly think it should happen. 

Even though you can talk about swaying their political and moral views, those are things that are learned. Given that most people just are hetero-, ******- or bisexual (not trying to turn this into a nature vs. nurture thing), it would be pretty damn hard to sway a particularly straight character to fall for a gay/lesbian/bi Hawke, no matter how charming, charismatic or attractive they are.

I absolutely support a storyline where there is an 'opening of [their] eyes', as the OP put it. But for one character that had only ever experienced hetero relationships (or perhaps just hadn't thought about it). I think as much as there should be strictly gay character/s (which would be great), there should be strictly heterosexual characters, and of course our bisexuals, too.

And as for the Kinsey scale, there's still a 0 and a 6 on that thing (completely heterosexual and completely homosexual, respectively). So they should be represented, too

Modifié par Le_Saboteur, 12 janvier 2011 - 12:00 .

[Saibh]

prazision wrote...

I thought Jade Empire had a gay male romance that wasn't bisexual, but my memory could be wrong.
I don't think I buy the reasoning that straight players always have access to every opoosite-sex LI because there would be a substantial sales dropoff if Leliana had been gay. If even one person would not buy the game due to that, they should probably re-examine their game buying habits.

Only Juhani was gay, and, then, her romance wasn't complete.

[prazision]

Noilly Prat wrote...

Jade Empire spoilers, sort of:

As far as I know, the contents of Sky's loins were available to male and female PCs in Jade Empire.  Although, I know that secondhand, as I haven't yet played a female character in that game.  I think he is the only "straight" option female PCs get, though.  Also, he was a widower.

Ah you're right (though again I'll point out that many gay men marry women because they're in denial).
Regardless, many people are saying this is a resource issue, which I can understand. So why not take the resources needed to make Isabela bisexual, make her strictly interested in women (or men), and then use those resources to make another companion strictly interested in only one sex?
Everyone seems to be saying "it would be unrealistic if everyone was bisexual" (even though that's not what my OP proposes) but... is it any more realistic that nobody is gay, that everyone is either straight or bi?

[UrdnotGrunty2]

WidowMaker9394 wrote...

I know hundreds of people. Only one of them is bisexual.

To your proposal: A big NO. Bioware is not here to make your sexual fetishes come true in a video game form. If you want to hang out with a plethora of ******/bisexual people you'd be better off in a gay bar.

Better yet if you want a game where everyone is bi go play sims, no more than 3-5% of the people on earth are gay or bi so why should 100% of the characters in the game be it just because you want them to.  Next you are going to want to romance the war hound because there isnt enough bestiality love

/sigh

[prazision]

If you're going to make the absurd claim that only 3-5% of humanity is gay or bisexual, please cite a source, as for decades the universally accepted minimum - MINIMUM - has been 10-15%.

edit: Also, comparing homosexuality to bestiality warrants reporting of your post, I think.

Modifié par prazision, 12 janvier 2011 - 12:35 .

[Eclipse_9990]

No just no.. I get where your coming from. But that would be an awful idea..

[nijnij]

People are way too touchy about those things. I'm straight but whenever I sense a hint of homophobia, I can't help but feel personally offended. I feel that way because someone's sexual orientation shouldn't MATTER (as long as it's all consensual and not based on authority). Like a lot of people, I was somewhat homophobic as a child because we're all raised that way, but I really wish more people would grow up and get over it. I even find it amazing that people spend so much time trying to fgure out who's gay or not or bisexual, as if those things were genetic ; I think people are just "sexual" and that's it, the rest is mostly about aesthetic preferences. I guess statistically, there are more straight people out there since it's the way our species has survived so far so there's obviously some sort of chemical attraction going on between genders, but just take a look at all the negative threads about female companions emaning from men : because straight guies have different opinions about what makes a woman attractive or not doesn't mean some of them are right and others are wrong, just means everyone has different turnons and aesthetic tastes. Personally, I couldn't care less about everyone in the game being bi, but I find the way the OP's almost being flamed by some posters despicable, however relevant his request might be. If I don't agre with something because I think it's wrong, I might put my two cents in, but if I disagree with something but feel it's harmless, I try to take it as an occasion to keep a low profile.

[Wulf19]

If every character had to "go both ways" the quality could only be lessened in each romance, not to mention the believability. I'd rather see 2 extremely well written, lengthy, believable "gay/bi" romances then 5+ short cut scenes of my character dry humping each NPC in turn. Slight exaggeration there but you get the point, I hope. This thread is so derailed from the topic of games or story so who knows.



But I'm still just glad Bioware is nice/progressive enough to include them at all, let alone with the relatively high quality they've shown. Alright Bio, where's my cookie?