221 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrKankrelat]

ME1 did some things better than ME2, and ME2 did some things better than ME1. ME1 did exploration much better. I loved the Mako since my first landing on Presrop, as roving around uncharted planet surfaces in it, looking up at the gorgeous skyscapes of binary stars, sulphrous skies, or Earth itself (that was a wow-moment) made me feel like a galactic explorer, which is as close as that childhood dream will ever come to being fulfilled. Planet-scanning can't compare.  Also, ME1 was much better in the MEDI-GEL department, as we practically tripped over the stuff, whereas in ME2 it feels that the med-kits are fewer and farther in-between. Furthermore, I liked the overheating weapons (I found the lack of an ammo system to be unique) and I was disappointed with thermal clips in ME2, but I didn't let that ruin the game for me. The Citadel was also better, and the elevator chats are missed. But overall ME2 was better:

- More varied side-mission environments and side-mission types

- Better music

- Deeper character development

- Much improved combat (mercenaries running around their cut-and-paste base environment like elementary school students in PE class is not good combat)

- Better use of cover

- Better powers and power-usage - recharge times were much lower, I loved that.

- Better squadmates overall

- Hammerhead beats Mako, even though I love the Mako

- Paragon/Renegade interrupts and tying your charm/intimidate to your morality bars.

- Simplified inventory.

Modifié par CmdrKankrelat, 11 janvier 2011 - 08:46 .

[Nightwriter]

Phaedon wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I don't know anymore. I'm lost and confused. I think I'll just shuffle back and forth through the forums a la Kreacher, half mad, muttering to myself in a clearly audible voice that everyone can hear.

"So they think ME2 is better, the blood traitor brats... befouling my mother's house, oh my mistress, if she could see it now... they threw out her crouch mechanic, her inventory system, her blessed elevator banter, oh the shame..."

And you'll be a victim of nostalgia just like Kreacher.

"Listen to this one talk, the blood traitor filth, Kreacher wonders who it thinks it is... it must be the Phaedon brat here to ruin Kreacher's fun, Kreacher thinks he is being a douche... oh my mistress, what would she think... rabble and trash and filth..."

[InvaderErl]

LiquidGrape wrote...

GOOOOOOOD RIDDANCE I SAY!

And don't let the door hit ya on the way out, ya clusmy badly implemented elevators!

[Phaedon]

Nightwriter wrote...
"Listen to this one talk, the blood traitor filth, Kreacher wonders who it thinks it is... it must be the Phaedon brat here to ruin Kreacher's fun, Kreacher thinks he is being a douche... oh my mistress, what would she think... rabble and trash and filth..."

:happy:

[darth_lopez]

Both were awesome in their own rights. ME 2 still has story telling issues to work out. ME 1 we knew what we were doing the whole time. ME 2 we were supposed to get a feeling of indecisiveness and i believe that's what the majority of the community got from their ME 2 play throughs.

[Bozorgmehr]

I think most agree that ME1 told a better story and ME2 has a superior combat system. If BW could combine the two of em in ME3 - I'd be (very) pleased.

[Jorina Leto]

Oh, insults! There is no need to respond.

[Piecake]

I liked ME1 a lot, but I thought ME2 was so much better. The only thing I really liked better in ME1 was the music and the general plot, and it lost big points for how mind-wrenchingly annoying the inventory and planet exploration were executed.



Since I include characters in my definition of story, I thought ME2's story was better than ME1. Besides the antagonists, ME1's characters were rather poor. ME2's were much more interesting, and that is a huge deal for me since I find characters a lot more interesting than the plot.



The only thing I really disliked was planet mining. Holy balls, did that suck. I still would take planet mining over ME1's planet exploration though. ME2's mining was just boring; ME1's planet exploration was hugely annoying, frustrating and time-consuming. Now, if they have planet exploration in ME3, but actually execute it well, then that would be awesome.

[Unkei]

ME2 > ME1. Even with all the bugs, plot holes, 3 armor suits and Hammerhead.

[Evil Johnny 666]

While ME2's shooting is superior, the level design was so bad that I got bored of it rather quickly, something that wasn't the case with ME1. Even if ME2's shooting is better, it is still a bit mediocre compared to real 3rd person shooters. I absolutely wouldn't buy ME2 solely for the shooting portion. So what do you have beside the shooting portion? A mess of a story (boring, anti-climactic, big plot-holes, told in a way unlike any good storytelling) and a dialogue system. The dialogues themselves are from bad to great, but the system itself is terrible and gives you the illusion of choice. A voice acted Shepard + only a choice between 3 Shepard personalities (which are damn boring stereotypes) = a character that doesn't feel like yours at all. Plus, besides the squad mates I find terrible (Jack, Grunt, Samara), I prefer ANY other over Shepard. Take out voice acting out of Shepard, give him more choices and the experience may become that much more exciting. Hell, just voice acting would help a lot more to connect with him, to make you believe he his your character. But unfortunately, he's the worst part of both ME games, being worse in ME2. Some of the very limited real quests are quite fun, but they are very limited, ME1 has much, much more of them. In ME2, those are only available in hub-worlds and in places out of your missions.

I think ME1 is great despite its flaws, but ME2 instead of fixing some things and building on top of what was already featured (something anyone and especially fans of the game would expect) scrapped big parts of the game, thus why some people are bitter towards the game. I can understand someone didn't like the mako, but just don't use it then, it's not like they tried to replace it. I love it and it pains me to see one of the big things I like about the game made it unique gone. So what you get with ME2 is an extremely uneven game (even more than ME1), at times it is truly great while at others it is painfully mediocre.

Less isn't more in that case. Less, here, is less. They didn't try to tweek or refine things by cutting them off, they just cut them off.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 12 janvier 2011 - 12:17 .

[Kabanya101]

People need to wake up, Mass Effect is an RPG an that's why the first game was better than the second. It was more in depth and it had more customization, and more importantly it had the mako. Sure the controls sucked, but they could have improved it in the second, but everybody disregarded. The mako was one of the most important elements in the first mass effect, that's what made it an RPG. They tried to make Mass Effect 2 a first person shooter, and you can't do that when its in third person, and when every fight makes you go into cover like its your job, when you shouldn't have to when your a SOLDIER.

[Funkcase]

CmdrKankrelat wrote...

ME1 did some things better than ME2, and ME2 did some things better than ME1. ME1 did exploration much better. I loved the Mako since my first landing on Presrop, as roving around uncharted planet surfaces in it, looking up at the gorgeous skyscapes of binary stars, sulphrous skies, or Earth itself (that was a wow-moment) made me feel like a galactic explorer, which is as close as that childhood dream will ever come to being fulfilled. Planet-scanning can't compare.  Also, ME1 was much better in the MEDI-GEL department, as we practically tripped over the stuff, whereas in ME2 it feels that the med-kits are fewer and farther in-between. Furthermore, I liked the overheating weapons (I found the lack of an ammo system to be unique) and I was disappointed with thermal clips in ME2, but I didn't let that ruin the game for me. The Citadel was also better, and the elevator chats are missed. But overall ME2 was better:

- More varied side-mission environments and side-mission types

- Better music

- Deeper character development

- Much improved combat (mercenaries running around their cut-and-paste base environment like elementary school students in PE class is not good combat)

- Better use of cover

- Better powers and power-usage - recharge times were much lower, I loved that.

- Better squadmates overall

- Hammerhead beats Mako, even though I love the Mako

- Paragon/Renegade interrupts and tying your charm/intimidate to your morality bars.

- Simplified inventory.

They are a matter of opinion really, I liked the ME1 music and squad alot more than the ones in ME2.

[Undertone]

I was always a huge proponent for Mass Effect 1 being better then Mass Effect 2. But instead of arguing what problems I had with one of the games I will argue what problems I had with both.

Mass Effect 1:

The lack of balancing between the different classes was one that stood out to me. Adept seemed way to overpowered.

Only the Citadel and Noveria were big settlements, all the other planets were devoid of life, settlements of any sources or any big city other then the Citadel. While exploring dangerous planets was awesome, I wish we run more into situations where somehow we get stranded and have to survive on this hostile worlds or something like that. I do remember thinking though, where I can find bigger colonized planets? I was hoping for turian, asari places to visit, learn more about them. Not the "domesticated" versions of them at the Citadel but the "true" asari and turian if it makes sense. What about their homeworlds? How would they feel if a human came there?

Weapons and the Inventory - The inventory was indeed clunky but the only problem with it was in regards to removing stuff you don't desire. And that could have been fixed easily with the system Dragon Age makes. One button - go to trash. Either sell it or destroy it etc. The weapons looked very similar despite the difference in attributes and the companies that made them. I expected a more unique design to it.

The Mako - only with the way it handled. It seemed weightless and also the fact that it was undamaged besides falling from a great cliff. Otherwise it was nice and cozy and I loved it.

I think that's all I can think of at any rate.

Mass Effect 2:

The plot: Shepard's resurrection could have been done much more believable. As it stands it's completely impossible for me to believe that somebody can come out of this alive without being a clone. Or that anything would be left from him to salvage, like helmet etc. The plot progresses from the first game to nowhere, we are still where we were at the end of the first one.

The complete removal of inventory - made searching planets, enemy camps or any of the areas completely pointless and unnecessary = basically shoot the enemies, leave the place. The complete lack of equipment was atrocious - without the DLC's stuff we have all in all one armor and few peaces for it? That's completely unacceptable. Weapons I liked here, although I would have preferred more quantity of the different models. And statistics for them. Another problem was the lack of upgradeability. Both for armor and weapons.

Combat is better but much more streamlined.

Lack of open-end worlds to explore. Indeed here we have more colonized worlds that we see Illos being a prime example at the expense of little to none open end worlds like ME 1 and a vehicle that's even more bizarre then the Mako. Not to mention weak even on low difficulty.

Less interaction between characters. In ME 1 after each mission you could ask them about their opinion of the mission and they had assembly where all of them would give their point. This needs to be addressed strongly.

The Normandy turned into a pleasure hotel cruiser. Who's to say any of those people you can trust not to mess you up? Where's security? It looks like a hotel to be honest. Also plot-wise the Normandy while perfect in ME 1 is rendered useless. The enemy can detect somehow (this is never explained) it's stealth so why a new one was built for all that money seems pointless to me. Rather build a stronger armored/weaponed ship then a stealthy one if stealth doesn't work. The whole uniqueness of the Normandy was destroyed in a sense.

The lack of option for helmets removal and the utter nonsense of having squaddies with clothes in vacuum. Sure unique costumes are fine, but clothes in vacuum...

Ammunition - brakes immersion. Basically I walk around the level collecting this shiny stuff. Rather fix the overheating weapons (or actually the upgrades that made them not overheat at all) then introduce ammunition.

The elevators are gone - entering the Normandy and going on from one area to another with an elevator was amazing. It didn't even occur to me until by the late end of the game that those were actually the "loading" process. I thought it was so cool, no other game had this that way. Also the squad banter, listening to news from the galaxy was awesome. And then in ME 2 - boom, loading screens, yawn. Going to light my smoke or do something else. It actually made me feel like pausing the game, starting doing something else. Whereas in ME1 I was immersed completely. Sure some elevators were long but much much better then loading screens.

The morality system - or rather the loss of charm/intimidate as a skill and making it connected with how much renegade and paragon score you have. That basically made it so much more streamlined that I hated it absolutely the most. It made it so that a character can only be pure renegade or pure paragon. That was terrible.

Overall ME2 action feels better and more fluid - but it's much more streamlined and action-oriented. Basically more simple. Both are good but an amalgam of both would be the best.



Oh and KotoR > all. There's no question about it.

Modifié par Undertone, 12 janvier 2011 - 02:07 .

[88mphSlayer]

pros for ME1:
-tighter story with an expansive plot, if ME2 were as tight then Horizon would be Virmire and the game would be half as long without feeling any more empty on plot
-more atmospheric all around, the under-populated areas felt fantastic, and the music was memorable
-more interesting side mission stories, while the characters just weren't there the situations were very memorable
-a unique take on rpg mechanics and guns/armor and biotic abilities
-conversation wheel was a big step for Bioware rpg's and being more cinematic

cons for ME1:
-the mako sections were largely filler for a game that really wasn't very long (especially for an rpg)
-the inventory system was terrible, and due to the game's shorter length the player gains too many upgrades too quickly so they spend too much time micro-managing items and upgrades
-the combat was very clumsy, ridden with bugs, and some classes just weren't as balanced as others, also roll of the dice hit detection was superfluous by the end of the game anyways
-animations were super robotic, clunky and broke immersion, most conversations were also forced to be still blocked out face-to-face endeavors that lacked any organic flow (made the game feel like a made-for-tv movie)
-dialogue was clumsy and characters were always in the uncanny valley, furthermore a lot of background information was delved into at often inappropriate times that broke pacing
-graphics were largely cut & paste with the game often repeating itself over and over, same goes for level design and combat design
-while elevators were an idealistic touch they often weren't accurate (such as the elevator ride up to the Citadel Tower, which in-game wasn't that long and you never saw out into space, while near the end Sheperd shoots through the glass to get outside), they also spawned impossible-to-escape glitches on the PC and were overall mostly aggravating on the 360
-planet exploration was interesting but like level design was very repetitive with some planets feeling rushed and empty of atmosphere or interesting things to do\\\\\\\\
-populated areas felt empty and artificial, very little in the Mass Effect 1 universe felt used or lived in either
-side characters were interesting but lacked proper backstories, in addition to joining up with sheperd with no fanfare

more than anything i think the lasting impact of Mass Effect 1 was the revelation of the Reapers, the general style of the game, the cinematic quality, the aliens and ME universe in general, and the bad-ass-ness of Sheperd as a force in that universe

when looking at Mass Effect 1 and looking at what worked and what had a lasting impact, ME2 basically builds upon the successful things and leaves the unsuccessful bits behind

as for the pros and cons of ME2 i think it's probably been covered enough in this thread, what i will say is that the DLC has gone a long way of rectifying some things such as re-adding vehicle sections and giving the maps a sense of scale that ME1 had while maintaining Mass Effect 2's environment quality

i think some people would like a mixture of the two games, but i don't think anybody wants to honestly go back to ME1 standards

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:40 .

[Jerrald]

Undertone wrote...

The Normandy turned into a pleasure hotel cruiser.  

+1
It's damn true 

[Lunatic LK47]

Undertone wrote...

Weapons and the Inventory - The inventory was indeed clunky but the only problem with it was in regards to removing stuff you don't desire. And that could have been fixed easily with the system Dragon Age makes. One button - go to trash. Either sell it or destroy it etc. The weapons looked very similar despite the difference in attributes and the companies that made them. I expected a more unique design to it.

Uh, Dragon Age's inventory was equally bad, and last time I checked, I outright stopped playing after saving the Circle of Magi because of it, aside from the difficulty spikes. KOTOR blew both ME1 and Dragon Age out of the water in the inventory department.

The complete removal of inventory - made searching planets, enemy camps or any of the areas completely pointless and unnecessary = basically shoot the enemies, leave the place. The complete lack of equipment was atrocious - without the DLC's stuff we have all in all one armor and few peaces for it? That's completely unacceptable. Weapons I liked here, although I would have preferred more quantity of the different models. And statistics for them. Another problem was the lack of upgradeability. Both for armor and weapons.

Uh, ME1 devolved into "Stick with Spectre Weapons and don't look back." All of the guns just functioned the same, and a good majority of them are ****.

The elevators are gone - entering the Normandy and going on from one area to another with an elevator was amazing. It didn't even occur to me until by the late end of the game that those were actually the "loading" process. I thought it was so cool, no other game had this that way. Also the squad banter, listening to news from the galaxy was awesome. And then in ME 2 - boom, loading screens, yawn. Going to light my smoke or do something else. It actually made me feel like pausing the game, starting doing something else. Whereas in ME1 I was immersed completely. Sure some elevators were long but much much better then loading screens.

Problem is the squad conversations are less than a dozen maximum, and all of the news reports are on auto-loop up to the point I only called nothing but taxis.

[Aimi]

You know, I doubt I'll add anything to this discussion that hasn't already been said, so I'll just say that I liked ME2 better because it was more fun. No arguing about dialogue or squad interaction or leveling or how much of a shooter something is or planetary exploration vs scanning, I can let other people with more time than I have do that for me.

[SithLordExarKun]

Good god this again?

[Lumikki]

I think this is 100's time i say this, but what the hell. Both Mass Effect games are equal good, just different ways.

[Rykoth]

Both are great, and both have their shortcomings.

My biggest issues with ME1 are almost game breakers.

1. Inventory. I'm playing through with a level 60 Shepard where everyone is wearing the best armor, and Shep is wearing his classic N7. THIS playthrough is fun because I don't have to manage my damn inventory every 5 minutes. I'm an upgrade freak in games with upgrades, its an OCD. I hate that if you start from level 1, every time enemies die, I get useless crap in my inventory.

2. Without side missions, the game is completable in a day. Therefore, put 5 billion side missions out on these barren arsed maps that make space feel lonely. The latter isn't a bad thing, but its -boring-.

My biggest issues with ME2?

Mostly that while I love the squad recruitment angle, it didn't feel linked together. The only time I felt like I was "progressing" was when I recruited Mordin-and then Garrus. Otherwise its like "okay let's go here." "and here." "and here."

There shoulda been incentive for picking up Companion X at this time or that time, that flowed with the story. Thats my major gripe.

That said, the people who claim ME2 went nowhere need to replay the game again or something. I'd say fighting the allies of the big bad is progression.

[Phaedon]

SithLordExarKun wrote...

Good god this again?

There is no problem with the thread, even though I'd rather it would be a post in another thread that has already been made. The thing is, it attracks a special group of...users.

[Kabanya101]

Mass effect 2 had a much better combat system, except for one thing, you couldn't use multiple powers at one time with one individual. My favorite class to be is a soldier, but I like to be the infiltrator, but when I found out I couldn't use other powers with tactical cloak, I just stopped. It was dumb using one power, and then waiting for all of them to recharge. It made all classes a one trick pony by using only one power 90% of the time. And always using cover was annoying, in the first mass effect you had to use it at the start a lot, but when you got strong enough, you didn't have to as much. Mass Effect 2 has you die the minute if your not in cover, even on normal. It caused some firefights to be extremely long, especially on insanity.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Undertone wrote...

I was always a huge proponent for Mass Effect 1 being better then Mass Effect 2. But instead of arguing what problems I had with one of the games I will argue what problems I had with both.

Mass Effect 1:

The lack of balancing between the different classes was one that stood out to me. Adept seemed way to overpowered.

Only the Citadel and Noveria were big settlements, all the other planets were devoid of life, settlements of any sources or any big city other then the Citadel. While exploring dangerous planets was awesome, I wish we run more into situations where somehow we get stranded and have to survive on this hostile worlds or something like that. I do remember thinking though, where I can find bigger colonized planets? I was hoping for turian, asari places to visit, learn more about them. Not the "domesticated" versions of them at the Citadel but the "true" asari and turian if it makes sense. What about their homeworlds? How would they feel if a human came there?

Weapons and the Inventory - The inventory was indeed clunky but the only problem with it was in regards to removing stuff you don't desire. And that could have been fixed easily with the system Dragon Age makes. One button - go to trash. Either sell it or destroy it etc. The weapons looked very similar despite the difference in attributes and the companies that made them. I expected a more unique design to it.

The Mako - only with the way it handled. It seemed weightless and also the fact that it was undamaged besides falling from a great cliff. Otherwise it was nice and cozy and I loved it.

I think that's all I can think of at any rate.

Mass Effect 2:

The plot: Shepard's resurrection could have been done much more believable. As it stands it's completely impossible for me to believe that somebody can come out of this alive without being a clone. Or that anything would be left from him to salvage, like helmet etc. The plot progresses from the first game to nowhere, we are still where we were at the end of the first one.

The complete removal of inventory - made searching planets, enemy camps or any of the areas completely pointless and unnecessary = basically shoot the enemies, leave the place. The complete lack of equipment was atrocious - without the DLC's stuff we have all in all one armor and few peaces for it? That's completely unacceptable. Weapons I liked here, although I would have preferred more quantity of the different models. And statistics for them. Another problem was the lack of upgradeability. Both for armor and weapons.

Combat is better but much more streamlined.

Lack of open-end worlds to explore. Indeed here we have more colonized worlds that we see Illos being a prime example at the expense of little to none open end worlds like ME 1 and a vehicle that's even more bizarre then the Mako. Not to mention weak even on low difficulty.

Less interaction between characters. In ME 1 after each mission you could ask them about their opinion of the mission and they had assembly where all of them would give their point. This needs to be addressed strongly.

The Normandy turned into a pleasure hotel cruiser. Who's to say any of those people you can trust not to mess you up? Where's security? It looks like a hotel to be honest. Also plot-wise the Normandy while perfect in ME 1 is rendered useless. The enemy can detect somehow (this is never explained) it's stealth so why a new one was built for all that money seems pointless to me. Rather build a stronger armored/weaponed ship then a stealthy one if stealth doesn't work. The whole uniqueness of the Normandy was destroyed in a sense.

The lack of option for helmets removal and the utter nonsense of having squaddies with clothes in vacuum. Sure unique costumes are fine, but clothes in vacuum...

Ammunition - brakes immersion. Basically I walk around the level collecting this shiny stuff. Rather fix the overheating weapons (or actually the upgrades that made them not overheat at all) then introduce ammunition.

The elevators are gone - entering the Normandy and going on from one area to another with an elevator was amazing. It didn't even occur to me until by the late end of the game that those were actually the "loading" process. I thought it was so cool, no other game had this that way. Also the squad banter, listening to news from the galaxy was awesome. And then in ME 2 - boom, loading screens, yawn. Going to light my smoke or do something else. It actually made me feel like pausing the game, starting doing something else. Whereas in ME1 I was immersed completely. Sure some elevators were long but much much better then loading screens.

The morality system - or rather the loss of charm/intimidate as a skill and making it connected with how much renegade and paragon score you have. That basically made it so much more streamlined that I hated it absolutely the most. It made it so that a character can only be pure renegade or pure paragon. That was terrible.

Overall ME2 action feels better and more fluid - but it's much more streamlined and action-oriented. Basically more simple. Both are good but an amalgam of both would be the best.



Oh and KotoR > all. There's no question about it.

We stand pretty much at the same place, 100% agreed. The mako, elevators and getting off the Normandy by foot was elements that made ME much more unique and enjoyable to me. And I don't get people who are against elevators and such, did you really prefer those loading screens, even if you often heard the same banter? You know, there wasn't only two choice (getting rid of it or keeping it identical) for Bioware, they just could've improved things rather than scrap everything and AGAIN try something new which doesn't work. It's better to work on top of something rather than try something from scratch which will need as much improvements as the original elements. It's a trilogy, why no work on it in a way that makes sense? ME2 is a ME game as far as I know...

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 12 janvier 2011 - 07:52 .

[Schneidend]

For me, the only thing ME1 did better were the mods for weapons and allowing companions to have the same equipment as Shepard. There was lot more variety than just 5-6 damage boosts and two secondary bonuses.

ME2 was better in pretty much every other conceivable way. Better gameplay, better weapon variety, piecemeal armor, deeper characters, more cinematic dialogue. The stories of both games resonated equally well with me, though.

Give companions armor customization (which includes Samara zipping up, Grunt covering his biceps, and Jack actually WEARING armor to begin with) and bring back weapon mods and ME3 will basically be perfect.

Modifié par Schneidend, 12 janvier 2011 - 08:16 .

[Undertone]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...
Uh, Dragon Age's inventory was equally bad, and last time I checked, I outright stopped playing after saving the Circle of Magi because of it, aside from the difficulty spikes. KOTOR blew both ME1 and Dragon Age out of the water in the inventory department.

Uhm...you need to press one button to send anything to trash and another button to sell all the trash. How is that...complex?