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[Volus Warlord]

Maybe Sheppy won't destroy the Reapers. Maybe he will simply conceal himself, and "hide out the storm." He will take Ash, run off to some unknown, uncharted world, and the two will found a sort of futuristic Garden of Eden, rebuilding humanity.

I like that ending.

[Vaenier]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Put the Thannix on fighters (like it can be) and the countless civilian freighters.

Suddenly, you don't have to build a cruiser to be able to shoot like a cruiser. Sovereign got worn down by a dozen cruisers to the point where it made it's Saren gambit to take direct control: if every fighter on a fighter carrier could shoot like a cruiser...

This plan would be best. It took a few seconds of ai controlled mining [like 10 minutes of that stupid minigame] to find all the resources to build the gun from scratch. lol

wait, the gun would still need a very large power generator though. conservation of energy, you gota put in as much energy as you want to get out. the only benifit is that ship length can be smaller.

Besides the fact that Mass Effect casually violates the conservation of energy with biotics, this really isn't so much a problem. You don't need to be able to fire the Thannix continually, constantly, indefinitely. The more you have numbers, the less you need to be able to fire it.

So let's say a casual ship can't sustain a Thannix. Why can't it come into battle with a charge on a capacitor? Fire one. Drain batteries. Get the hell out of dodge, spend however much time for non-military ship to charge up batteries. Maybe the battle's over: maybe not.

But if you have ten civilian freighters that can shoot one Thannix shot each, you've put as much lead down range as a top-of-the-line military cruiser that fired ten times... and if a Reaper puts any focus on that cruiser, how likely is it to be able to fire ten times? You kill a cruiser before it gets a round off, you lost all ten shots. If you kill one of those ten freighters, the other nine can still shoot.

Dispersal of firepower. It has it's assets.

This is very true. This could actually work, if a few other things fall into place though. Reapers still will take alot of firepower to bring down, and there are alot of them. This will easily make them hurt bad, but I dont think it will be enough on its own to win the fight.

[Sajuro]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Maybe Sheppy won't destroy the Reapers. Maybe he will simply conceal himself, and "hide out the storm." He will take Ash, run off to some unknown, uncharted world, and the two will found a sort of futuristic Garden of Eden, rebuilding humanity.

I like that ending.

A fleet searching for a home....

[General User]

I like to look at the thanix as a case-in-point of just how close to Reaper technology the ‘galactic standard” really is. I mean, not only can we reverse-engineer Reaper technology, but we can improve upon it.
 
Thanix could be a perfect example of this. Of the two small ship types we’ve seen the Reapers and their allies use (occuli and geth vessels) neither was equipped with thanix-type weapons. So, either the Reapers were holding that tech back from their allies (which has its own logic to it), or THEY DIDN”T KNOW HOW to miniaturize the weapon.
 
It’s an interesting thing to consider.

[Dean_the_Young]

It all depends on how it's depicted. For all that the Reapers have had forever to harvest races, we don't actually have much to say that they harvested that many (relatively speaking). Enough to have a legion and an armada? Yes. But the Reapers were more than content to refuse to Reaper-fy every other alien race that they could, and we know there are those that they can not, so it could well be that Reaper-fiable races are rather rare. Not one a cycle, not necessarily one every ten cycles.



We just know the Reaper numbers go into the 'lots', not 'nigh-infinite.' We may well have the numbers advantage, especially if their escape from Dark Space diminished their numbers.







(Yes, I know your 'why don't they just clone' gripe. Let's not focus on why not here, and wait for ME3 to give us more insight into the Reapers' priorities.)

[Vaenier]

Sajuro wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Maybe Sheppy won't destroy the Reapers. Maybe he will simply conceal himself, and "hide out the storm." He will take Ash, run off to some unknown, uncharted world, and the two will found a sort of futuristic Garden of Eden, rebuilding humanity.

I like that ending.

A fleet searching for a home....

You know, this has a 100% chance of success. Ilos was on the beaten path and was never found. If you went outside the small clusters of stars around the relays that everyone sticks to, you would have no chance of being discovered by the Reapers. You could exist indefinitally as long as you remain away from the clusters around relays.

It is just inconcievable for past races to not have done this. And the alternative makes it inconcievable for Ilos to have remained hidden. Wow, all possibilities lead to a massive failure of logic here.

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

I like to look at the thanix as a case-in-point of just how close to Reaper technology the ‘galactic standard” really is. I mean, not only can we reverse-engineer Reaper technology, but we can improve upon it.
 
Thanix could be a perfect example of this. Of the two small ship types we’ve seen the Reapers and their allies use (occuli and geth vessels) neither was equipped with thanix-type weapons. So, either the Reapers were holding that tech back from their allies (which has its own logic to it), or THEY DIDN”T KNOW HOW to miniaturize the weapon.
 
It’s an interesting thing to consider.

I think it's far safer to say that they withheld it: there's nothing functionally new about the Thannix from the Reaper-source weapon. I don't think we can say we improved the Thanix either: miniaturization was also accompanied by a reduction in firepower.

Mass Effect lore doesn't give much attention to the 'we shouldn't know enough to reverse it' argument: after all, humans were able to go from Sol-bound to intergalactic in two years after the Prothean stash, a jump of 200 years by Anderson's evaluation. The Reaper base is more. Reverse engineering is depicted as pretty easy (and, as technology advances, so does the ability to reverse engineer).

[Volus Warlord]

Vaenier wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Maybe Sheppy won't destroy the Reapers. Maybe he will simply conceal himself, and "hide out the storm." He will take Ash, run off to some unknown, uncharted world, and the two will found a sort of futuristic Garden of Eden, rebuilding humanity.

I like that ending.

A fleet searching for a home....

You know, this has a 100% chance of success. Ilos was on the beaten path and was never found. If you went outside the small clusters of stars around the relays that everyone sticks to, you would have no chance of being discovered by the Reapers. You could exist indefinitally as long as you remain away from the clusters around relays.

It is just inconcievable for past races to not have done this. And the alternative makes it inconcievable for Ilos to have remained hidden. Wow, all possibilities lead to a massive failure of logic here.

My point is, BioWare could through us a curveball in which the game does not end in some big fiasco of violence.

....

Alright, you got a point, maybe that was a bad idea.

[Vaenier]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Maybe Sheppy won't destroy the Reapers. Maybe he will simply conceal himself, and "hide out the storm." He will take Ash, run off to some unknown, uncharted world, and the two will found a sort of futuristic Garden of Eden, rebuilding humanity.

I like that ending.

A fleet searching for a home....

You know, this has a 100% chance of success. Ilos was on the beaten path and was never found. If you went outside the small clusters of stars around the relays that everyone sticks to, you would have no chance of being discovered by the Reapers. You could exist indefinitally as long as you remain away from the clusters around relays.

It is just inconcievable for past races to not have done this. And the alternative makes it inconcievable for Ilos to have remained hidden. Wow, all possibilities lead to a massive failure of logic here.

My point is, BioWare could through us a curveball in which the game does not end in some big fiasco of violence.

....

Alright, you got a point, maybe that was a bad idea.

No, its a good idea. It makes alot of sense. It is impossible for them to check 400 billion stars that this galaxy is made out of. That is not even counting the space between stars that the Geth like to hide in.

I am just thinking about how easily Ilos remained hidden even though it was directly within a cluster. But if Ilos could so easily remained hidden, there should be numerous civilizations who have beaten the Reapers by hiding outside the normal locations for life to settle. One basically requires the other. But yet we only have Ilos and we dont have civilizations outside the relays who have grown to rival the Reapers in strength. Something doesnt make sense here logic wise.

[titusrsoooooo1337]

The Turian councilor is the only one who can defeat the Reapers. If you let him die in ME1, you're screwed.



The Reaper fleet is closing in on the Citadel, all hope is lost... then Velarn steps out onto a space balcony or something, looks at them, and simply goes:



Ah yes, "Reapers".



And boom. They all vanish. They're just gone. He disbelieves them out of existence.



its not hard to understand.

[UrdnotGrunty2]

Vaenier wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Maybe Sheppy won't destroy the Reapers. Maybe he will simply conceal himself, and "hide out the storm." He will take Ash, run off to some unknown, uncharted world, and the two will found a sort of futuristic Garden of Eden, rebuilding humanity.

I like that ending.

A fleet searching for a home....

You know, this has a 100% chance of success. Ilos was on the beaten path and was never found. If you went outside the small clusters of stars around the relays that everyone sticks to, you would have no chance of being discovered by the Reapers. You could exist indefinitally as long as you remain away from the clusters around relays.

It is just inconcievable for past races to not have done this. And the alternative makes it inconcievable for Ilos to have remained hidden. Wow, all possibilities lead to a massive failure of logic here.

My point is, BioWare could through us a curveball in which the game does not end in some big fiasco of violence.

....

Alright, you got a point, maybe that was a bad idea.

No, its a good idea. It makes alot of sense. It is impossible for them to check 400 billion stars that this galaxy is made out of. That is not even counting the space between stars that the Geth like to hide in.

I am just thinking about how easily Ilos remained hidden even though it was directly within a cluster. But if Ilos could so easily remained hidden, there should be numerous civilizations who have beaten the Reapers by hiding outside the normal locations for life to settle. One basically requires the other. But yet we only have Ilos and we dont have civilizations outside the relays who have grown to rival the Reapers in strength. Something doesnt make sense here logic wise.

Maybe reapers only built relays near habitable systems?

But yeah i like that idea only maybe with your entire surviving normandy crew and some civilians you grabbed aboard.  Also would be a bittersweet ending i'd like

[General User]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

General User wrote...

I like to look at the thanix as a case-in-point of just how close to Reaper technology the ‘galactic standard” really is. I mean, not only can we reverse-engineer Reaper technology, but we can improve upon it.
 
Thanix could be a perfect example of this. Of the two small ship types we’ve seen the Reapers and their allies use (occuli and geth vessels) neither was equipped with thanix-type weapons. So, either the Reapers were holding that tech back from their allies (which has its own logic to it), or THEY DIDN”T KNOW HOW to miniaturize the weapon.
 
It’s an interesting thing to consider.

I think it's far safer to say that they withheld it: there's nothing functionally new about the Thannix from the Reaper-source weapon. I don't think we can say we improved the Thanix either: miniaturization was also accompanied by a reduction in firepower.

Mass Effect lore doesn't give much attention to the 'we shouldn't know enough to reverse it' argument: after all, humans were able to go from Sol-bound to intergalactic in two years after the Prothean stash, a jump of 200 years by Anderson's evaluation. The Reaper base is more. Reverse engineering is depicted as pretty easy (and, as technology advances, so does the ability to reverse engineer).

As you point out, miniaturization (even with a reduction in firepower) constitutes an improvement all its own, as it opens up whole new dimensions for tactics. 
 
It also brings up the question of, if the thannix-type cannon on the Normandy (a stealth frigate, crew 40-50 or so, optimized for special operations) did what it did, then what sort of hell would be unleashed when a dreadnought  (one purpose built to carry and fire thannix-type cannons, crew 10,000 or so, optimized specifically for deep space combat against other similarly sized and armed warships) fires its main armament?

In other words, if we can scale it down, then why not scale it up?
 
If the Reapers did have the technology necessary to miniaturize thanix-type, they didn’t use it. That Sovereign might not have fully trusted his geth worshipers with the technology is understandable. But I don’t understand why Harbinger wouldn’t have done so on his own occuli, especially given his opportunity to learn from Sovereign’s mistake.
 
How did David Anderson arrive at his 200 year figure anyway? Did he have a machine that moved him into an alternate dimension, wherein he got in another machine (this one a time machine) that moved him ahead 200 years?
 
Meh, one could accept that David Anderson is 100% accurate, and reverse engineering is… very fast. Or one could embrace the idea that humans/protheans/Reapers aren’t all that far apart technology wise. I think the later has a bit more substance to it.
 

Modifié par General User, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:18 .

[Interactive Civilian]

Pwner1323 wrote...

The reason for the Citadel Relay is the surprise attack advantage of taking out the galaxy's leaders. If they haul it from dark space and back every time it would be like setting off a flare. The galaxy would see them coming from a mile a way (or millions in this case).

Assuming the Reapers have FTL, then no, the Galaxy wouldn't see anything coming until they arrive.

Unless you are suggesting it is possible to see things before the light caused by those things arrives? Or are you suggesting that the Reapers would enter the Galaxy at sub light speeds? If it's the latter, then someone might want to put Shepard in cryo. It's gonna be a looooooooooong wait.

The reason for the Citadel Relay is that it's the master relay and the one which is their passage from their "hibernation grounds" in intergalactic "dark space". I assume that you could then use the citadel relay to control all other relays (random baseless idea for beating the Reapers: take control of the relays using the Citadel, allow the Reapers to "take" all of the other mass relays, and then re-route all relay traffic to a newly discovered relay parked maybe a light-minute from a star that you can artificially trigger to go super-nova, an ability you have based on discovering the technology that was affecingt the star at Haestrom. Send the Reaper fleet there, and trigger the nova. Now, instead of thousands, perhaps you only have a few stragglers to pick off, which would be more feasible with the combined fleets of the space-faring civilzations).

Why don't they have more than one way back? My guess is because they've never needed it. Perhaps the way it always worked in the past was that there was only one galaxy spanning technical civilzation each time, and now there are several, making things more difficult to predict and control from what they are used to. This is pure speculation, of course. It may simply be the first time that a previous civilization was able to give some warning to the next, as the Protheans did for us. Who knows.

However, it's not surprising for the Reapers to not be very organized in their reaction to the situation. So many millions of years with never having a problem are bound to make anyone complacent and confident.

(edit: minor typos)

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:38 .

[Archereon]

Guys, we all know that Mass Effect 3 is going to end with the Reapers suffering villain decay to the point of hilarity (oh wait...), or a Deus Ex Machina that will make me throw my controller at my screen.

Move along.

Modifié par Archereon, 12 janvier 2011 - 01:33 .

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

As you point out, miniaturization (even with a reduction in firepower) constitutes an improvement all its own, as it opens up whole new dimensions for tactics.

Oh, you meant improved for us. Repurposing.

I thought you meant 'in a way the Reapers couldn't think of doing so.' My bad.

 

It also brings up the question of, if the thannix-type cannon on the Normandy (a stealth frigate, crew 40-50 or so, optimized for special operations) did what it did, then what sort of hell would be unleashed when a dreadnought  (one purpose built to carry and fire thannix-type cannons, crew 10,000 or so, optimized specifically for deep space combat against other similarly sized and armed warships) fires its main armament?
In other words, if we can scale it down, then why not scale it up?

I imagine at that point you might start being able to give equally-strong blows as if a Reaper fired it...

But if Reaper shields can endure it, while Dreadnaught shields can't, then it could be a money loser. It becomes a matter of dreadnaughts and battleships versus other ship types, but fighters STILL carry Thannix. Economies of war are unlikely to favor it, especially from our position.

 

If the Reapers did have the technology necessary to miniaturize thanix-type, they didn’t use it. That Sovereign might not have fully trusted his geth worshipers with the technology is understandable. But I don’t understand why Harbinger wouldn’t have done so on his own occuli, especially given his opportunity to learn from Sovereign’s mistake.

For one thing, the Occuli were pretty darn small as it was, and might not have been large enough. For another, the particle weaponry the Collectors did have more or less served them well regardless: only the best armor around could stop the Occuli lasers from penetrating, small as they were, the Collector Cruiser was never out-gunned.


 

How did David Anderson arrive at his 200 year figure anyway? Did he have a machine that moved him into an alternate dimension, wherein he got in another machine (this one a time machine) that moved him ahead 200 years?

Plot exposition authority.

In universe, someone probably took an estimate of how long it would take them normally.


 

Meh, one could accept that David Anderson is 100% accurate, and reverse engineering is… very fast. Or one could embrace the idea that humans/protheans/Reapers aren’t all that far apart technology wise. I think the later has a bit more substance to it.
 

There's no reason both can't be true: while we're familiar with exponentially-accelerating technology, there's no reason why tech can't 'plateau' at certain points.

[CoolCR]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Put the Thannix on fighters (like it can be) and the countless civilian freighters.

Suddenly, you don't have to build a cruiser to be able to shoot like a cruiser. Sovereign got worn down by a dozen cruisers to the point where it made it's Saren gambit to take direct control: if every fighter on a fighter carrier could shoot like a cruiser...

This plan would be best. It took a few seconds of ai controlled mining [like 10 minutes of that stupid minigame] to find all the resources to build the gun from scratch. lol

wait, the gun would still need a very large power generator though. conservation of energy, you gota put in as much energy as you want to get out. the only benifit is that ship length can be smaller.

Besides the fact that Mass Effect casually violates the conservation of energy with biotics, this really isn't so much a problem. You don't need to be able to fire the Thannix continually, constantly, indefinitely. The more you have numbers, the less you need to be able to fire it.

So let's say a casual ship can't sustain a Thannix. Why can't it come into battle with a charge on a capacitor? Fire one. Drain batteries. Get the hell out of dodge, spend however much time for non-military ship to charge up batteries. Maybe the battle's over: maybe not.

But if you have ten civilian freighters that can shoot one Thannix shot each, you've put as much lead down range as a top-of-the-line military cruiser that fired ten times... and if a Reaper puts any focus on that cruiser, how likely is it to be able to fire ten times? You kill a cruiser before it gets a round off, you lost all ten shots. If you kill one of those ten freighters, the other nine can still shoot.

Dispersal of firepower. It has it's assets.

Sov was stationary you forget how much faster the reapers are than normal ships they have more element zero so they move faster due to there mass canceling propertys sov rams the turian ship head on in the same time the turian ship changes course 5 degrees it hardly moves.

They also have full sized reaper wepons not the cut down thannix so they should have more range and speed esentialy they should be able to engage one ship at a time when they feel like it.

You cannot box them in space is to big for that + they have no stratigic loactions to protect or supply lines to cut so they will pick the battle grounds the durations of the fights who they engage and when its over.

The other race (other than talis lot) have to protect there planets so have to stand and fight or loss billions of people even the geth have there space stations that wont move much.

[General User]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Oh, you meant improved for us. Repurposing.

I thought you meant 'in a way the Reapers couldn't think of doing so.' My bad.

I guess, when you think about it, all technology is situational. A device or technique to aid with a particular task might be incredibly useful to people in one situation, but not those in another.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
I imagine at that point you might start being able to give equally-strong blows as if a Reaper fired it...

But if Reaper shields can endure it, while Dreadnaught shields can't, then it could be a money loser. It becomes a matter of dreadnaughts and battleships versus other ship types, but fighters STILL carry Thannix. Economies of war are unlikely to favor it, especially from our position.

I’m a ‘combined arms’ advocate myself. Carriers need destroyers for screens, cruisers can take out smaller combatants, and every once and so often the situation calls for the unmercifully fury that only a battleship’s main guns can provide.  I say you need it all, and a good Admiral knows how to put ti all together to win.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
For one thing, the Occuli were pretty darn small as it was, and might not have been large enough. For another, the particle weaponry the Collectors did have more or less served them well regardless: only the best armor around could stop the Occuli lasers from penetrating, small as they were, the Collector Cruiser was never out-gunned.

Perhaps Reapers really just aren’t that bright?

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Plot exposition authority.

In universe, someone probably took an estimate of how long it would take them normally.

Sound like one of those things that 'everyone knows' is true, but no one knows why or how, only that.

Captain Anderson, show your work!

Dean_the_Young wrote...
There's no reason both can't be true: while we're familiar with exponentially-accelerating technology, there's no reason why tech can't 'plateau' at certain points.

For real. How long have the asari/salarians/turians been basically putting around at the same rough level?

[oldag07]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Is this not the most realistic outcome? Sovereign alone was damn near invincible. Now, imagine just two of Sovereign. Then imagine thousands. Even with the entire galaxy united, reaper tech is millions of years beyond everything else.

The only way for Shepard to have a chance at taking these monsters down is if he gets some outside help.... from Bioware. Yeah, in other words, Bioware has dumb the reapers down a bit. Sovereign was hardcore, taking on the Citadel and Alliance fleets simultaneously while fighting Shepard and his team. Even then, we almost lost.

So, just try to imagine a reaper fleet. You wouldn't a have a chance in hell of actually winning despite your numbers. How Bioware could fit this into cannon is pretty easy: the reapers are low on gas by the time they get to the Milky Way. Clever.

Sovereign did have a support Geth fleet, and had Saren sabotage the Citadel from within via the Conduit.  So he wasn't so "invincible".  Second, it did take "centuries" to destroy the protheans according to ME1.  I remember hearing some quote in game saying that even the Reapers understood they could not defeat the combined fleets of all organic life in the galaxy.   There probably will be a fair amount of villian decay, but it isn't implausible for the galaxy to be saved.

[Dean_the_Young]

CoolCR wrote...

Sov was stationary you forget how much faster the reapers are than normal ships they have more element zero so they move faster due to there mass canceling propertys sov rams the turian ship head on in the same time the turian ship changes course 5 degrees it hardly moves.

They also have full sized reaper wepons not the cut down thannix so they should have more range and speed esentialy they should be able to engage one ship at a time when they feel like it.

You cannot box them in space is to big for that + they have no stratigic loactions to protect or supply lines to cut so they will pick the battle grounds the durations of the fights who they engage and when its over.

The other race (other than talis lot) have to protect there planets so have to stand and fight or loss billions of people even the geth have there space stations that wont move much.

Not only do none of those really directly apply to anything I said in what you quoted, but your response is a rambling, disjointed grammatical mess that's hard to make head or tales out of.

Reapers are better/faster/more maneuverable than ships of equivalent scale: they aren't as nimble as fighters or as fast as lighting. Nothing to date suggests they can outrun mass accelerator fire either.

Longer range doesn't mean you can isolate opponents in a group when they get in range of you.

In a sense, the Reapers do have limitations of movement: if they want to attack a planet/the Citadel, that's where they have to be. Space is infinite, but the areas of interest are not. Not that 'boxing them in' or 'flanking' have much to do with what I was talking about.

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

I’m a ‘combined arms’ advocate myself. Carriers need destroyers for screens, cruisers can take out smaller combatants, and every once and so often the situation calls for the unmercifully fury that only a battleship’s main guns can provide.  I say you need it all, and a good Admiral knows how to put ti all together to win.

And Dreadnaughts still went obsolete fast, eh?

Perhaps Reapers really just aren’t that bright?

Given the fact that the Normandy's thannix is as long as a good number of Occuli, while the Occuli themselves were hardly shabby and certainly didn't lack for a historical record for effectiveness, I think 'technical limitations/lack of overall reason' trumps assumptions of incompetence.

Sound like one of those things that 'everyone knows' is true, but no one knows why or how, only that.

True, but that's par for course in Mass Effect (and fiction in general).

For real. How long have the asari/salarians/turians been basically putting around at the same rough level?

Since they hit the Prothean Plateau a thousand years ago (though, to be fair, they then got hit by both the Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellions).

I wouldn't be surprised at all if, as it seems, the galaxy is at/has been at the cusp of a technological revolution that would 'return' faster growth. The Council races did all the grunt work of not only catching up the the Protheans in capability, but also in understanding the nuances: they made little advances here and there, but it was a general tech plateau to build up the knowledge, computing power, material sciences, and more necessary to get to the 'next' generation: particle weaponry, greater genetics, and an AI renaissance.

The tech-plateau would make sense as a target point for the Reapers, as well as explain both the Reapers patience overall but increased impatience now: when the discovery of the Prothean trap was discovered a thousand years ago, they had plenty of time to try and scheme. But now with the galaxy approaching or reaching the cusp of a technological breakthrough, they're increasingly hurried (razing Eden Prime, all out assault, getting-up-and-leaving Dark Space...)

[Patriota125]

I cannot freaking wait till ME3 comes out, me2 was god damn awesome, omega was great (my favorite place in all galaxy!) i just wish we could go to explore the entire city of omega or illium, like, go to the buildings you can see, see other streets, alleys, markets, neighborhoods, that'd be awesoe.

[TheRealIncarnal]

It will probably be villain decay or a Deus Ex Machina "Well, all you had to do was turn them off!", but I would like to think that everyone dieing and the Reapers being victorious would be a valid ending to the game. Not the only ending, but the equivalent of the ME2 "You screwed up absolutely everything!" Shepard's Death type ending.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The key to beating the Reapers is to give as many ships as we can the Thaix cannon which has been suggested and then get the Geth or someone to find a way past their sheilds if we can get past their shields and we have enough Thaix cannons than we have a huge chance.

[SLPr0]

One word:

Klencory

Not a writer since Solon, in ancient Greece, has been above the use of deus ex machina.

BioWare is a brilliant band of madmen, I'll give them that, but there are some literary conventions that simply cannot be avoided, they can only be retold in new ways.

Klencory is a hint. You may have missed it in Mass Effect originally. Thankfully, you can look it up on the Wiki site, if you just happened to do so.