144 réponses à ce sujet

[TheRealIncarnal]

SLPr0 wrote...

One word:

Klencory

Not a writer since Solon, in ancient Greece, has been above the use of deus ex machina.

BioWare is a brilliant band of madmen, I'll give them that, but there are some literary conventions that simply cannot be avoided, they can only be retold in new ways.

Klencory is a hint. You may have missed it in Mass Effect originally. Thankfully, you can look it up on the Wiki site, if you just happened to do so.

Good catch there SLPr0!
That does seem like the early seeds of a possible Deus Ex Machina to me!

Modifié par TheRealIncarnal, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:44 .

[James2912]

Brilliant find slpro! Here is the link:

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/klencory


All sorts of alarm bells are going off in my head reading this!

Modifié par James2912, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:45 .

[SLPr0]

Picked it up on my most recent ME1 run and went....oh really.



And wouldn't it be strange if the clowns of the galaxy, the Volus...were to be remembered finally for their contribution to the safety of the galaxy and eventually be given a seat on the Council?



Just random thoughts. I don't profess to be wrong or right. I think many things will come into play with ME3, Klencory is a hint, the Leviathan of Dis is a hint (though much believed to be an easter egg, I believe its a hint...its a gigantic organic life form capable of FTL travel, the Reapers are gigantic inorganic life forms capable of the same), perhaps someone was asleep at the switch on the last several....who knows how many extinction cycles?

[didymos1120]

This is actually one of the most common ideas put forth on the "How will we win?" question. If not the most common. Generally rivaled only by the weapon used to kill the derelict reaper.

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:54 .

[James2912]

didymos1120 wrote...

This is actually one of the most common ideas put forth on the "How will we win?" question. If not the most common. Generally rivaled only by the weapon used to kill the derelict reaper.

ok, it just goes  to show great minds think a like and I think its very plausible that the key to destroying the reapers has already been hinted at in ME1 or and ME2

Modifié par James2912, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:59 .

[SLPr0]

I'm sure the mass effect weapon that potentially killed the derelict reaper and also the one that created the great rift of Klendagon are potential fits as well, technologies long lost to the forgotten places of space that no one yet travels.



While some may assume that obviously we're going all over the galaxy so its a pretty busy place out there the codex information is pretty specific that regardless of the current size of known sapient species in the Milky Way Galaxy, only around 1% of the Galaxy is currently explored.



There could be a gigantic mass effect artillery gun just beyond an unmapped relay jump, for all we know. Encrusted in ice, floating in the dark spaces between stars even.



I think to concede total hopelessness in the face of an obviously overwhelming threat when we've only explored 1% of our total response options is a bit premature.

[Bluko]

Legbiter wrote...

Shepard takes the Normandy into Dark Space in the final act and disables all the Reapers from there with a major paragon/renegade decision.
  
In ME 1 we went through the Mu relay to Ilos, in ME 2 we went through the Omega 4 relay to find the Collector base. And in ME 3 we go into Dark Space. Seems in line with the ethos of Mass Effect.

This.

It may not be Darkspace, but I'm fairly certain it will be. That or the Reaper homeworld.

I'm guessing however you'll need some sort of fleet to "hold the line" while you do this or perhaps you'll take the fleet with you. It's been too heavily foreshadowed that Shepard will gather some kind of large to deal with the Reapers. I'm guessing there's some sort of Reaper god or station we ultimately must face. I strongly suspect the Reapers are all controlled by one thing since I can't possibly see how all these former alien species get along. Surely each species retains previous knowledge otherwise how do Reapers acquire sentience? I'm guessing the key to defeating the Reapers is to cause them to turn on each other. That sounds like something only Shepard could accomplish being a "natural leader".

Also people keep talking about how great the Thanix cannon is. Seriously that or any other Reaper tech isn't sufficient to save us and is honestly just as much a "deus ex" as anything else. Remember the Reapers expect us to use their technology. I'm sure Reaper ships have shields and hulls strong enough to resist their own weapons. How do you even know the Thanix cannon would be any good? All the Thanix cannon did was destroy the Collector ship. Maybe you forgot but the Collector ship isn't that strong as a few turrets on Horizon managed to scare it off. The Collector ship isn't a real war vessel. Also the Reapers are larger then any of our ships so they probably have larger cannons as well. So how exactly does upgrading all ships to have Thanix cannons help us? The Reapers will have stronger everything. The Reapers have been around for millions of years.

[Alexander Kogan]

There were also several gas planets that are believed to have hidden structures that could be weapons or technology to fight the Reapers. Ploba is an example. There's also another planet in ME1 that had mysterious lights that disappeared whenever ships got too close.

[didymos1120]

SLPr0 wrote...

I'm sure the mass effect weapon that potentially killed the derelict reaper and also the one that created the great rift of Klendagon are potential fits as well, technologies long lost to the forgotten places of space that no one yet travels.

They're the same weapon: the round went through the reaper, thereby rendering it derelict, and kept on going right across Klendagon.

[James2912]

There is one thing I know for sure you doom and gloom people are dead wrong the galaxy will be saved in ME3 will there be an option for failure? probably but there will definitely be an option for success!

[Bluko]

James2912 wrote...

There is one thing I know for sure you doom and gloom people are dead wrong the galaxy will be saved in ME3 will there be an option for failure? probably but there will definitely be an option for success!

Well yeah it'd probably be pretty dumb if we didn't win or at least temporarily win. It'd be nice if all the decisions from the earlier games actually effect ME3's outcome, but they probably won't enough to be significant in terms of success or failure. Considering Shepard could fail in ME2 I'm sure they'll have the option again in ME3.

[Keithhy]

I have a horrible feeling that Dark Energy is going to have a role to play in the defeat of the Reapers, considering that there's so much interest in it in ME2.

Secondly, a realistic war against the Reapers, even assuming that the squishy mortals could win, the war would be long, drawn out, and be basically comprised of a series of hit and run guerrilla strikes designed to whittle Reaper numbers down, one by one. However, Bioware always opts for dramatic endings, and a century long war doesn't seem to be the thing. As such, expect some sort of command centre, or hub, perhaps even a cache of ancient civilization tech, from which the Reapers can be destroyed.



Realistically, we're going to have a hell of a time beating these Reapers, and It's going to be interesting to see how Bioware pulls this off. It'd possibly be even better if Bioware implemented different methods of defeating the Reapers, with various results.

[ImpactedBurrito]

Why are people even assuming that we are going to win over the Reapers with fighting them head-on with ships... Seriously, have you SEEN the ending of ME2? SEE all those freakin' Reapers? yeah.... umm we're going to need like a thousand Death Stars or something, jk btw. I'm pretty sure Bioware will handle this problem; I have no idea what they can do as of right now, but I trust them because they're guru's on story-telling. The war will happen for sure, there will be casualties on both sides, but fighting alone will definitely not help us against the Reapers. It is up to Commander Shepard and his crew to find the secret(s) that will help us win this war, that's all I'm trying to say.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

oldag07 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Is this not the most realistic outcome? Sovereign alone was damn near invincible. Now, imagine just two of Sovereign. Then imagine thousands. Even with the entire galaxy united, reaper tech is millions of years beyond everything else.

The only way for Shepard to have a chance at taking these monsters down is if he gets some outside help.... from Bioware. Yeah, in other words, Bioware has dumb the reapers down a bit. Sovereign was hardcore, taking on the Citadel and Alliance fleets simultaneously while fighting Shepard and his team. Even then, we almost lost.

So, just try to imagine a reaper fleet. You wouldn't a have a chance in hell of actually winning despite your numbers. How Bioware could fit this into cannon is pretty easy: the reapers are low on gas by the time they get to the Milky Way. Clever.

Sovereign did have a support Geth fleet, and had Saren sabotage the Citadel from within via the Conduit.  So he wasn't so "invincible".  Second, it did take "centuries" to destroy the protheans according to ME1.  I remember hearing some quote in game saying that even the Reapers understood they could not defeat the combined fleets of all organic life in the galaxy.   There probably will be a fair amount of villian decay, but it isn't implausible for the galaxy to be saved.

No, it was Vigil who said that Sovereign couldn't take the entire galaxy on by itself. Also, I find it really odd that everyone is throwing their lot in with this 'Thanix Cannon'. We don't even know if it can actually punch through a Reaper's kinect barriers.

[Aimi]

didymos1120 wrote...

This is actually one of the most common ideas put forth on the "How will we win?" question. If not the most common. Generally rivaled only by the weapon used to kill the derelict reaper.

What, no Leviathan of Dis fans?

[Icinix]

Knowing BioWare...



Knowing Sci - Fi...



Races of the Galaxy unite to fight Reapers, but Shepard finds some ancient Prothean weapon that destroys massive amounts of the Reapers..pushing the remainder back into Darkspace....END ME3....



Mass Effect: MMO - Return of the Reapers - Destroy weapon....begin Grind.

[General User]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
And Dreadnaughts still went obsolete fast, eh?

Well… yes and no. I mean, what is a ‘dreadnaught’? I say, it’s a ship with massive armor and firepower. While the current ‘Destiny Ascension’ type dreadnoughts seem to be headed out, I really can’t picture any sort of scenario where a ship that can give and take massive amounts of damage doesn’t have a role.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Given the fact that the Normandy's thannix is as long as a good number of Occuli, while the Occuli themselves were hardly shabby and certainly didn't lack for a historical record for effectiveness, I think 'technical limitations/lack of overall reason' trumps assumptions of incompetence.

There’s certainly wisdom in ‘holding the best in reserve’, as there is in ‘moving the best to the front.’ Whatever Harbinger’s motivations, it think it’s really hard to argue that he didn’t screw up. Despite all his advantages, Shepard still ate his lunch. In that vein you could say that Harbinger’s main error was one of judgment, even leadership.

[Aimi]

SLPr0 wrote...

Not a writer since Solon, in ancient Greece, has been above the use of deus ex machina.

Solon didn't write plays, and so did not employ the mēchanē.  You may have confused him with Euripides.

[Vaenier]

NewMessageN00b wrote...

Wait... you guys actually think the Reaper was brought down by firing on it? I thought it was only and solely then, once Shepard killed off that Saren-robot-thing when Reaper core shut down, thus invalidating all its defenses. Prior to that no weapons left any scratches on it. And I'm pretty sure scratches is what we would get, since it's a cutscene, not a cheap half-assed MMO animation. It also must be that there's a core inside that Saren-thing. This has to work using some unknown logic that, because Reaper dies when this thing dies, apparently requires maintaining a link to keep both physically split Reaper consciousnesses working as a single. I'd compare it to splitting a human's brain accurately in half, which is the reason he "turned off" and only then the weapons penetrated. Or am I remembering wrong? Those youtube vids are always cut in weird sequence.

If it's true, then you don't need Thanix cannons once you disable it. 

Something of same size that penetrated that half-dead Reaper would be useful, though. And think about it: that Reaper was still alive. After that hit and all that time.

lmao. That is just dumb to think they are invincable unless they chose to make themselves weaker... Really, you honestly think they are that stupid? If you think this is true, you already lost the war. gg, have a nice day.

Scratches? Its called a chield. It sacrifices energy to prevent damage. When the energy runs out, it becomes vulnerable. Just because Reapers are smart enough not to pack their control consoles with c4 for them to blow up with shot does not mean the alliance was not inflicting damage to its shields.

Human brains work perfectly fine when their connection is cut. many people live with only a single half of their brain, some people live with only the connection cut and are almost like different people in the same body, its pretty cool.

And then you admit they can be taken down by firepower... So what the frak are you even argueing here?

[Dean_the_Young]

NewMessageN00b wrote...

Wait... you guys actually think the Reaper was brought down by firing on it? I thought it was only and solely then, once Shepard killed off that Saren-robot-thing when Reaper core shut down, thus invalidating all its defenses. Prior to that no weapons left any scratches on it. And I'm pretty sure scratches is what we would get, since it's a cutscene, not a cheap half-assed MMO animation. It also must be that there's a core inside that Saren-thing. This has to work using some unknown logic that, because Reaper dies when this thing dies, apparently requires maintaining a link to keep both physically split Reaper consciousnesses working as a single. I'd compare it to splitting a human's brain accurately in half, which is the reason he "turned off" and only then the weapons penetrated. Or am I remembering wrong? Those youtube vids are always cut in weird sequence.

If it's true, then you don't need Thanix cannons once you disable it. 

Something of same size that penetrated that half-dead Reaper would be useful, though. And think about it: that Reaper was still alive. After that hit and all that time.

The most logical interpretation for why Sovereign chose to Assume Direct Control of Saren, rather than just duke it out against the fleet, is that it judged that it had a better chance of succeding (and surviving) against Shepard than against the fleet. It could have kept fighting, could have done more damage, but it would have been less likely (or possibly doomed) to being overwhelmed.

Yes, Sovereign only lost power/stability/shields after it's Avatar was destroyed, but the fact that it invested in the Avatar option in the first place is an indicator that it was threatened.



The reason why the Thannix matters is because it radically boosts the ability of the organic races to fight, mainly by giving much smaller ships and even fighters the punch of a cruiser, without the cruiser's cost. At the current level, one Reaper alone was able to do a lot of damage to an entire fleet. We can't count on being able to weild a fleet or more per Reaper to whittle them down, while having a fleet in which even small ships and fighters have the firepower of a Thannix, that would give us a much, much better chance and rate to overwhelm Reapers like Sovereign.

[Dean_the_Young]

daqs wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

This is actually one of the most common ideas put forth on the "How will we win?" question. If not the most common. Generally rivaled only by the weapon used to kill the derelict reaper.

What, no Leviathan of Dis fans?

What about the Leviathan of Dis?

The most notable thing about the Leviathan of Dis is that it was already wiped out by the Reapers. It's exotic, but at best it would be a white elephant project.

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
And Dreadnaughts still went obsolete fast, eh?

Well… yes and no. I mean, what is a ‘dreadnaught’? I say, it’s a ship with massive armor and firepower. While the current ‘Destiny Ascension’ type dreadnoughts seem to be headed out, I really can’t picture any sort of scenario where a ship that can give and take massive amounts of damage doesn’t have a role.

With the exception of the Destiny Ascension itself (gainst the Geth fleet), we haven't seen any signs that the Dreadnaughts can take massive damage from Reapers. Sovereign ran through one without trouble, and the verdict of whether Dreadnaughts are any more impervious to Reaper fire is still out. We do know, however, that even Cruisers could be one-shotted by Sovereign: the chances of a Dreadnaught being able to make any sort of sustained defense against a Reaper is slim.

There’s certainly wisdom in ‘holding the best in reserve’, as there is in ‘moving the best to the front.’ Whatever Harbinger’s motivations, it think it’s really hard to argue that he didn’t screw up. Despite all his advantages, Shepard still ate his lunch. In that vein you could say that Harbinger’s main error was one of judgment, even leadership.

Losing doesn't necessitate that you made an improper or even unwise action, however. Commander Shepard breaks even the best plans, after all.

[Aimi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

daqs wrote...

What, no Leviathan of Dis fans?

What about the Leviathan of Dis?

The most notable thing about the Leviathan of Dis is that it was already wiped out by the Reapers. It's exotic, but at best it would be a white elephant project.

I thought it actually was a derelict Reaper.

[ZLurps]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

....Perhaps the way it always worked in the past was that there was only one galaxy spanning technical civilzation each time, and now there are several, making things more difficult to predict and control from what they are used to. This is pure speculation, of course. It may simply be the first time that a previous civilization was able to give some warning to the next, as the Protheans did for us. Who knows.

However, it's not surprising for the Reapers to not be very organized in their reaction to the situation. So many millions of years with never having a problem are bound to make anyone complacent and confident.

I haven't thought how Reapers will arrive a lot but played in my mind a bit similar scenario to yours. Maybe it really is the first time when previous civilization was able to give a warning to next and perhaps it's first time when galaxy is populated with so many space faring species? Species capable also doing joint research like Thanix cannon that was result of Human and Turian reverse-engineering of technology salvaged from Sovereign. Who knows what else is being developed?
Also Reapers plan hasn't worked like usually. They are about 2000 years late from their usual reaping schedule. That's 2000 years of development for galactic races. Reapers really might be facing something they didn't expect.

ImpactedBurrito wrote...

Why are people even assuming that we are going to win over the Reapers with fighting them head-on with ships... Seriously, have you SEEN the ending of ME2? SEE all those freakin' Reapers? yeah.... umm we're going to need like a thousand Death Stars or something, jk btw.

I too doubt that fight against Reapers would be won only in space battles. I think indoctrination will play huge role in war with Reapers. They probably don't even have much if any ground forces on their own (how could troops stay alive during hibernation cycle?) 

Reaper ship, though impressive can't win a war just by landing itself somewhere and uups, instant indoctrination. They can cause huge military and civilian casualties when they attack densely populated areas like cities but they can't win entire war just landing their ships here and there. Also we don't know if Reapers ship technology is suitable for orbital bombing. Maybe they need help from other species to build suitable weapons for that.
I can imagine Reapers battle plan being something like:
Go to system then scan for noteworthy race. if race = noteworthy then gather troops ie. indoctrinate
if race won't indoctrinate goto orbital bombing (if possible). if not possible goto next system
when troops strength = x goto harvest
when harvest complete return system(s) > orbital bombing.

Gameplay wise I think we might see scenarios like gathering races to fight Reaper fleet but also scenarios where we fight Reaper indoctrination centers to cut their supply of troops, rush to prevent indoctrinated troops from sabotaging alliance  negotiations, defense sites and searching for technology to fight Reaper ships and indoctrination.
I think we will see space battles too but gameplay wise, how to make it interactive? Shepard chooses attack vectors from dialogue wheel? I think we may see space battles just in cut scenes.

Modifié par ZLurps, 12 janvier 2011 - 02:36 .

[samurai crusade]

ImpactedBurrito wrote...

Why are people even assuming that we are going to win over the Reapers with fighting them head-on with ships... Seriously, have you SEEN the ending of ME2? SEE all those freakin' Reapers? yeah.... umm we're going to need like a thousand Death Stars or something, jk btw. I'm pretty sure Bioware will handle this problem; I have no idea what they can do as of right now, but I trust them because they're guru's on story-telling. The war will happen for sure, there will be casualties on both sides, but fighting alone will definitely not help us against the Reapers. It is up to Commander Shepard and his crew to find the secret(s) that will help us win this war, that's all I'm trying to say.

Shep will find the answers and secrets to the reapers for sure.    No doubt Liara at the head of the Shadow Broker network will be searching for clues as well.