144 réponses à ce sujet

[Homebound]

I think SHEP will download EDI to the reapers and give em viruses or something. Something waroftheworldsish

[oOmpie]

Who needs Thanix Cannons when you have 50.000 kinetic harpoons of doom that is te Quarian fleet?



Banzai!

[Vaenier]

Just_mike wrote...

I think SHEP will download EDI to the reapers and give em viruses or something. Something waroftheworldsish

You mean Independance Day?

[Apocalypse89]

NewMessageN00b wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Put the Thannix on fighters (like it can be) and the countless civilian freighters.

Suddenly, you don't have to build a cruiser to be able to shoot like a cruiser. Sovereign got worn down by a dozen cruisers to the point where it made it's Saren gambit to take direct control: if every fighter on a fighter carrier could shoot like a cruiser...

This plan would be best. It took a few seconds of ai controlled mining [like 10 minutes of that stupid minigame] to find all the resources to build the gun from scratch. lol

wait, the gun would still need a very large power generator though. conservation of energy, you gota put in as much energy as you want to get out. the only benifit is that ship length can be smaller.

Besides the fact that Mass Effect casually violates the conservation of energy with biotics, this really isn't so much a problem. You don't need to be able to fire the Thannix continually, constantly, indefinitely. The more you have numbers, the less you need to be able to fire it.

So let's say a casual ship can't sustain a Thannix. Why can't it come into battle with a charge on a capacitor? Fire one. Drain batteries. Get the hell out of dodge, spend however much time for non-military ship to charge up batteries. Maybe the battle's over: maybe not.

But if you have ten civilian freighters that can shoot one Thannix shot each, you've put as much lead down range as a top-of-the-line military cruiser that fired ten times... and if a Reaper puts any focus on that cruiser, how likely is it to be able to fire ten times? You kill a cruiser before it gets a round off, you lost all ten shots. If you kill one of those ten freighters, the other nine can still shoot.

Dispersal of firepower. It has it's assets.

This is very true. This could actually work, if a few other things fall into place though. Reapers still will take alot of firepower to bring down, and there are alot of them. This will easily make them hurt bad, but I dont think it will be enough on its own to win the fight.

Wait... you guys actually think the Reaper was brought down by firing on it? I thought it was only and solely then, once Shepard killed off that Saren-robot-thing when Reaper core shut down, thus invalidating all its defenses. Prior to that no weapons left any scratches on it. And I'm pretty sure scratches is what we would get, since it's a cutscene, not a cheap half-assed MMO animation. It also must be that there's a core inside that Saren-thing. This has to work using some unknown logic that, because Reaper dies when this thing dies, apparently requires maintaining a link to keep both physically split Reaper consciousnesses working as a single. I'd compare it to splitting a human's brain accurately in half, which is the reason he "turned off" and only then the weapons penetrated. Or am I remembering wrong? Those youtube vids are always cut in weird sequence.

If it's true, then you don't need Thanix cannons once you disable it. 

Something of same size that penetrated that half-dead Reaper would be useful, though. And think about it: that Reaper was still alive. After that hit and all that time.

I like to believe that Sovereign's shields were simply overwhelmed by the sheer volume of fire he was taking shortly after Shepard killed cyborg Saren, because the other alternative is believing that the Reapers are incompetent idiots who use the single most ineffective and dangerous remote control system in the history of telecommunications.

[PantokratorII]

A Death Star with termal vent covered with plywood or something ?

[Dean_the_Young]

daqs wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

daqs wrote...

What, no Leviathan of Dis fans?

What about the Leviathan of Dis?

The most notable thing about the Leviathan of Dis is that it was already wiped out by the Reapers. It's exotic, but at best it would be a white elephant project.

I thought it actually was a derelict Reaper.

The Leviathan of Dis was a genetically engineered, IE living organic, star ship.

Reapers are... not.

[didymos1120]

Apocalypse89 wrote...

I like to believe that Sovereign's shields were simply overwhelmed by the sheer volume of fire he was taking shortly after Shepard killed cyborg Saren, because the other alternative is believing that the Reapers are incompetent idiots who use the single most ineffective and dangerous remote control system in the history of telecommunications.

They weren't even firing at Sovereign when the shields dropped.  They were too busy avoiding death by Thanix. 

[JediMB]

Vaenier wrote...

Just_mike wrote...

I think SHEP will download EDI to the reapers and give em viruses or something. Something waroftheworldsish

You mean Independance Day?

It is worth taking into account that EDI is equipped with cyber-warfare functions salvaged from Sovereign. Knowing how the Reapers defend themselves from hacking and such is the first step towards penetrating those defenses
to deactivate shields and such.

[Someone With Mass]

Make a new version of the weapon that killed a Reaper and messed up Klendagon with one shot.



Problem solved.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

daqs wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

daqs wrote...

What, no Leviathan of Dis fans?

What about the Leviathan of Dis?

The most notable thing about the Leviathan of Dis is that it was already wiped out by the Reapers. It's exotic, but at best it would be a white elephant project.

I thought it actually was a derelict Reaper.

The Leviathan of Dis was a genetically engineered, IE living organic, star ship.

Reapers are... not.

Aren't they a mix of both?

[General User]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
With the exception of the Destiny Ascension itself (gainst the Geth fleet), we haven't seen any signs that the Dreadnaughts can take massive damage from Reapers. Sovereign ran through one without trouble, and the verdict of whether Dreadnaughts are any more impervious to Reaper fire is still out. We do know, however, that even Cruisers could be one-shotted by Sovereign: the chances of a Dreadnaught being able to make any sort of sustained defense against a Reaper is slim.

Was that ship Sovereign crashed into a dreadnaught? I thought it was a cruiser. When Shepard gave his interview to al-Jilani in ME2 he didn’t mention any destroyed dreadnaughts.
 
If anything, Sovereign showed us just how effective heavily armed and armored super-dreadnaughts can be, when used properly. 
 
Anyway, we shouldn’t make the mistake of assuming that a concept is unsound, when it has been a historical reality, just because we may not be able to implement it perfectly. A ship-of-the-line might be drift wood if matched against an Iowa-class battleship, but the concept behind the two is virtually identical. Heavy armor to absorb enemy blows, heavy guns (and lots of ‘em) to batter the enemy down. They ‘re playing the same game just on different levels.
 
Now, of course, every now and again, the paradigm changes wildly, the advent of naval air power (read thannix armed fighter-bombers) being a good example of such. But that doesn’t mean the old dynamic just goes away, rather it adapts to the new reality. The differences become ones of focus.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Losing doesn't necessitate that you made an improper or even unwise action, however. Commander Shepard breaks even the best plans, after all.

No, of course not. I didn’t mean to imply that it did. It’s just that, after a certain point (which some come to sooner than others), their continuous string of loses starts to call the Reapers’ abilities, of one sort or another, into question.
 
Commander Shepard…that’s really the rub isn’t it? If Harbinger didn’t drop the ball somewhere along the line then his only excuse for losing is that Shepard is some sort of unstoppable god-being. Ironically this is the truth. I just prefer to look for in-universe explanations wherever possible.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

I wonder if Shepard is a messiah or something,..?

[General User]

Well, if he ever rises from the de… nevermind.

[Dean_the_Young]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The Leviathan of Dis was a genetically engineered, IE living organic, star ship.

Reapers are... not.

Aren't they a mix of both?

No.

Genetic engineering refers to letting something organically grow by natural sell division/replication, but how what it grows into is designed. It is strictly organic. Growith is replication, not external addition.

Reapers are not genetically engineered. They take people who are not genetically engineered, turn it them into a metallic paste, and dump it on the Reaper-to-be. The Reaper 'grows' by external addition, not replication of itself: the only similarity to anything organic is that the synthetic materials used include organic paste put through various processes.

No one, at any point in the Mass Effect series, has ever confused a Reaper for an organic. The realization that the Reapers had any organic properties at all came not from the intenses study over Sovereign's remnants, but the end-game discovery inside the Collector Base itself.

[ObserverStatus]

Keep in mind that there was only one dreadnaught in the battle of the citadel, just the destiny ascension and a few turian cruisers. If the citadel's capital ships massed in full and found a way to force the reapers into a choke point (which may be difficult in space) they might have a chance.

Still, I think that the council races' best hope is re-purposing mass relays into giant canons.

[Sidac]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

But will you have to really try to get that ending? In ME2, you have to actually try to get the bad ending.

That is exactly what Im shooting for.

[supakillaii]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]The most logical interpretation for why Sovereign chose to Assume Direct Control of Saren, rather than just duke it out against the fleet, is that it judged that it had a better chance of succeding (and surviving) against Shepard than against the fleet. It could have kept fighting, could have done more damage, but it would have been less likely (or possibly doomed) to being overwhelmed.

Yes, Sovereign only lost power/stability/shields after it's Avatar was destroyed, but the fact that it invested in the Avatar option in the first place is an indicator that it was threatened.

Or it could be simply that Saren wasn't finished with whatever he was doing. Sure, Saren said what he said, but there could have been some kind of a "Press Here to confirm death of galaxy" button, no?

[Dionkey]

I think the way the reapers will be defeated will be something like making Sol go supernova but losing a large populace of earth all the while wiping out most of the reapers or engaging them head on with your fleet. The later would only be viable if you made the right choices to have a well built armada.

[Dean_the_Young]

General User wrote...

Was that ship Sovereign crashed into a dreadnaught? I thought it was a cruiser. When Shepard gave his interview to al-Jilani in ME2 he didn’t mention any destroyed dreadnaughts.
 
If anything, Sovereign showed us just how effective heavily armed and armored super-dreadnaughts can be, when used properly. 
 
Anyway, we shouldn’t make the mistake of assuming that a concept is unsound, when it has been a historical reality, just because we may not be able to implement it perfectly. A ship-of-the-line might be drift wood if matched against an Iowa-class battleship, but the concept behind the two is virtually identical. Heavy armor to absorb enemy blows, heavy guns (and lots of ‘em) to batter the enemy down. They ‘re playing the same game just on different levels.
 

But because they're on different levels, the 'fundamentally identical concepts' have increasingly different results. When your Ship of the Line can have the attack power of a Iowa-class, but not the armor or mobility of one, the resources invested in the Ship of the Line can be a total waste when compared to other avenues. If even a regular clipper can have a similar level of firepower, the costs of building the Ship of the Line become increasingly meaningless: it's armor, while thicker than a clipper, aren't thicker enough.

No, of course not. I didn’t mean to imply that it did. It’s just that, after a certain point (which some come to sooner than others), their continuous string of loses starts to call the Reapers’ abilities, of one sort or another, into question.
 
Commander Shepard…that’s really the rub isn’t it? If Harbinger didn’t drop the ball somewhere along the line then his only excuse for losing is that Shepard is some sort of unstoppable god-being. Ironically this is the truth. I just prefer to look for in-universe explanations wherever possible.

The two decivie things Shepard was responsible for, and which the Collectors failed at without necessarily doing anything wrong on their part, was the Collector Ship trap, and Shepard acquiring the Reaper IFF, and of the two only the first really required Shepard's magic touch. Before and after those two things were done, Shepard wasn't necessary, and the Collectors were more or less doomed since Sovereign's loss regardless.

Before the Collector Ship, Shepard might have been the 'best' option, but wasn't exactly critical for anything. Freedom's Progress would have been the success of any competent fireteam. Seeker swarms defenses were more dependant on Mordin than anyone else, but could conceivably been developed by anyone once a single seeker was captured. Even Horizon, while 'not a successful' without Shepard, could have been passed by a number of teams with Seeker Swarm defenses. Uptil then, there was nothing 'impossible' that Shepard was required for.

The Collector Ship trap was the single biggest thing, and Shepard was only able to escape thanks to the unveiling of the full capabilities of EDI, and even then it was a very close call. The Collectors really couldn't be expected to know EDI's full capabilities, nor did they show any real incompetence in how they tried to deal with Shepard.

After getting that critical data, most of the rest of the game could have passed without Shepard. You can blame the Reapers for leaving the Derilect Reaper around, but at the same time apparently it hadn't been found in fifty-million or however long years by numerous other civilizations, and besides the whole 'this is a story mission' there wasn't much reason why another team (or teams) of personnel couldn't have fought through, gotten the IFF, and gotten out.

And once the IFF was retreived, there wasn't exactly anything the Collectors could do to keep from losing. Their absolute defense was the Omega 4 relay, and once the IFF was analyzed, the only thing stopping the Alliance or anyone else from sending major forces through there and overwhelming the Collectors was the fact that Cerberus wanted first crack at the Collectors, and the potential rewards. Even if the entire Normandy had been stolen, if the IFF copy just got to Cerberus, then the Collectors lost. The Normandy could die: Shepard could fail: it could have been far, far costlier to beat the Collectors. But once anyone could go past the Omega 4 relay, the Collectors would eventually be worn down by attrition, if nothing else, and they were never capable of winning a war of attrition regardless of what they armed the Occuli drones with.

They could have done more damage, certainly, but their loss was more or less inevitable.

[James2912]

Except it had to be Cerberus because everybody else had their head in the sand. If you want to go into hypotheticals then fine but realize that anybody can play that game.

[88mphSlayer]

Pwner1323 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

Pwner1323 wrote...

Pull a Council move and pretend they don't exist?

pull a blazing saddles?

Why is the toll booth idea so popular lately?

and if it doesn't work we can always just blame everything on Joker

[Dean_the_Young]

James2912 wrote...

Except it had to be Cerberus because everybody else had their head in the sand. If you want to go into hypotheticals then fine but realize that anybody can play that game.

Indeed. But even Cerberus didn't need Shepard for most of what Shepard ended up doing. It would have been harder, it would have been bloodier, it would have seen a lot more loss all-around, but the only 'only Shepard could do this' moment we can ever really posit is the Collector Ship, and even that could have been done differently: send in a sacrificial team to trigger the trap and get the data, leave them behind/call in other Cerberus ships to support/attack the Cruiser.

Otherwise? A Cerberus team could have done Horizon (albeit likely with a Quarian shootout). Cerberus resources could have eventually found a seeker swarm blocker. Cerberus teams could have mounted an operation on Horizon. More Cerberus teams could have recovered the Reaper IFF, even if at great loss. And once through the Relay, Cerberus could send in it's own waves of drones and ships to take out the Occuli, destroy the Collector Cruiser, and lay seige to the Collector Base.

It might have bled Cerberus white, but it could have.

[Apocalypse89]

didymos1120 wrote...

Apocalypse89 wrote...

I like to believe that Sovereign's shields were simply overwhelmed by the sheer volume of fire he was taking shortly after Shepard killed cyborg Saren, because the other alternative is believing that the Reapers are incompetent idiots who use the single most ineffective and dangerous remote control system in the history of telecommunications.

They weren't even firing at Sovereign when the shields dropped.  They were too busy avoiding death by Thanix. 

Just because there's no visible weapons fire for the few seconds we see before Sovereign's shields fell, doesn't mean that the several minutes of fighting beforehand had no effect. It's still a lot more believable than assuming that Sovereign fitted Saren with remote-control implants that completely fry their operator's systems when they're destroyed.

[VoradorPT]

Sovereign in ME 1 tried to make us believe that the Reapers were some kind of gods that "...simply...are..." and "have no beginning... no end...".
My guess is that we'll find more about their origin. Someone with the technology to create them would also have the technology to destroy them.

Modifié par VoradorPT, 12 janvier 2011 - 07:40 .

[Pretend3r]

We will defintly need too learn more about the Reapers. Liara's position would help a great deal with that. She could send a research team to Ilos in her stead. since Ilos was a secret facility I'm sure they would have gatherd some usefull intel on their enemy. since she pretty much has an army at here disposal to gather intel.



I dont think Sov would announce himself as a god. Since he, according to Saren, is insultated by the geth approaching him as such. If the trailer is a big spoiler again... it would seem you'd be flying around being Captain negotiate... Forr all we know the game could be for the search of Chuck Norris his cryo-pod. He'd just rh-kick the little buggers into the black hole he made.