144 réponses à ce sujet

[The7Sins]

I think we will find a way to win thanks to the big giant Reaper killing gun Cerberus found in the Hawking Eta cluster and possibly having the Batarians save everyone using the technology from the Leviathan of Dis. (assuming this wasn't Sovereign)



Also the Quarians would be used as Cannon fodder and the Geth, and Rachni (assuming they are alive) would provide half the necessary fleet and the council races and humanity providing the other half.

The Krogan would be our shock ground troops to throw @ Husks.

And the Hanar, Drell, Volus, and Elcor will get wiped out.

The Vorcha will just be in the way.



That is how I see everything going down. Well that or we all die.

[Encarmine]

The7Sins wrote...

I think we will find a way to win thanks to the big giant Reaper killing gun Cerberus found in the Hawking Eta cluster and possibly having the Batarians save everyone using the technology from the Leviathan of Dis. (assuming this wasn't Sovereign)

Also the Quarians would be used as Cannon fodder and the Geth, and Rachni (assuming they are alive) would provide half the necessary fleet and the council races and humanity providing the other half.
The Krogan would be our shock ground troops to throw @ Husks.
And the Hanar, Drell, Volus, and Elcor will get wiped out.
The Vorcha will just be in the way.

That is how I see everything going down. Well that or we all die.

I agree in everyway APART from the Batarian part, I think that race will bethe reapers ground forces because of Leviathan of Dis. Wouldnt take much work for a Reaper to corrupt the upper circle of the Batarians, who are already bitter against the rest of the galaxy, and seem to have an already widespread doomsday cult in motion.

I cant wait to be gunning down Batarians, my lone Survivor, Colonist background made my character super bitter against them. The DLC from ME1 the asteroid, was AWESOM slowly killing the terrorist leader, glancing hit, wounding hit, lol finally a kill shot was great.

[Last Vizard]

JediMB wrote...

You know what might just be capable of taking down a Reaper?
- Reaper weaponry.

You know what the Normandy SR-2 is equipped with?
- Reaper weaponry replicated by the turians. That is, the Thanix Cannon.

The Citadel races got lucky against Sovereign, and that bit of luck was their first step toward them being able to equip themselves with technology powerful enough to challenge the reapers.

THIS ^... I YELL THIS ^
I keep telling people the same thing, Reaper downfall started with the Protheans and the race that built the Mass accelerator weapon (IFF mission). MACHINES CAN BE BROKEN!

[Pwner1323]

Why doesn't this inspire any kind of motivation or hope?

[General User]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

But because they're on different levels, the 'fundamentally identical concepts' have increasingly different results. When your Ship of the Line can have the attack power of a Iowa-class, but not the armor or mobility of one, the resources invested in the Ship of the Line can be a total waste when compared to other avenues. If even a regular clipper can have a similar level of firepower, the costs of building the Ship of the Line become increasingly meaningless: it's armor, while thicker than a clipper, aren't thicker enough.

Let’s not get too bogged down in the idea of fleet on fleet engagements as a way of beating the Reapers, mainly because I completely agree with you, it’d largely be a waste of resources to throw ships at them that they would swat out of the sky like flies. There are other ways to use ships of all types, and there are other ways to kill Reapers.
 
Against non-Reaper threats however, that’s a different story. A human or Alliance or Cerberus (someday) dreadnought incorporating the advances we’ve made just since 2183 has got to be enough to give half the Batarian Hegemony nightmares.
 
Anyhow, I’m not so sure our defensive technology really lags behind theirs all that much. For me to make a decision on that I’d want to see how our thanix-type weapons perform against their shields. For what it’s worth (which may or may not be much), they acquitted themselves quite well against the Collectors.
 
I see now that using ships-of-the-line and an Iowa-class battleship was a poor choice because it implied that I believe such was a correct analogy for the differences in our capabilities vis-a-vis the Reapers. A better analogy would be to leave the Reapers as the Iowa-class battleships, and describe us as being more or less at the ‘level’ of the original HMS Dreadnought.
 
The thing about Reaper technology, and one of the main reasons I believe it isn’t so advanced in the first place, is none of it is fundamentally mysterious, just more effective. They use hydro-magnetic cannons for offense and kinetic barriers for defense, so do we. They indoctrinate and make husks, we have ‘mind-control’ chips and extensive cybernetic capabilities. They transfer data across the galaxy and beyond in realtime, now so do we. 
 
There isn’t one thing that the Reapers can do that leaves us stymied. We have not caught up to them, but we are on the same lap, and gaining fast.

The two decivie things Shepard was responsible for, and which the Collectors failed at without necessarily doing anything wrong on their part, was the Collector Ship trap, and Shepard acquiring the Reaper IFF, and of the two only the first really required Shepard's magic touch. Before and after those two things were done, Shepard wasn't necessary, and the Collectors were more or less doomed since Sovereign's loss regardless.

Before the Collector Ship, Shepard might have been the 'best' option, but wasn't exactly critical for anything. Freedom's Progress would have been the success of any competent fireteam. Seeker swarms defenses were more dependant on Mordin than anyone else, but could conceivably been developed by anyone once a single seeker was captured. Even Horizon, while 'not a successful' without Shepard, could have been passed by a number of teams with Seeker Swarm defenses. Uptil then, there was nothing 'impossible' that Shepard was required for.

The Collector Ship trap was the single biggest thing, and Shepard was only able to escape thanks to the unveiling of the full capabilities of EDI, and even then it was a very close call. The Collectors really couldn't be expected to know EDI's full capabilities, nor did they show any real incompetence in how they tried to deal with Shepard.

After getting that critical data, most of the rest of the game could have passed without Shepard. You can blame the Reapers for leaving the Derilect Reaper around, but at the same time apparently it hadn't been found in fifty-million or however long years by numerous other civilizations, and besides the whole 'this is a story mission' there wasn't much reason why another team (or teams) of personnel couldn't have fought through, gotten the IFF, and gotten out.

And once the IFF was retreived, there wasn't exactly anything the Collectors could do to keep from losing. Their absolute defense was the Omega 4 relay, and once the IFF was analyzed, the only thing stopping the Alliance or anyone else from sending major forces through there and overwhelming the Collectors was the fact that Cerberus wanted first crack at the Collectors, and the potential rewards. Even if the entire Normandy had been stolen, if the IFF copy just got to Cerberus, then the Collectors lost. The Normandy could die: Shepard could fail: it could have been far, far costlier to beat the Collectors. But once anyone could go past the Omega 4 relay, the Collectors would eventually be worn down by attrition, if nothing else, and they were never capable of winning a war of attrition regardless of what they armed the Occuli drones with.

They could have done more damage, certainly, but their loss was more or less inevitable.

I don’t see inevitable.  I see mistakes, errors, and unused capabilities that could, at several steps along the way have been made for a very different outcome to the Collector Crisis.
 
Starting with the very notion that the Omega-4 was impenetrable when Harbinger knew for a fact it was not. Some of the wrecks were in the ‘safe zone’, some of the ships that made the attempt to transit survived the experience, long enough to be shot anyway.
 
Continuing to the decision not to simply destroy the Normandy when given the option to do so. I don’t fault him this choice, even though it was wrong that is something that someone could only understand with hindsight.
 
But most damning of all for Harbinger has to be the foolish deployment of his defenses around the Collector base. Choosing a layered defense over concentration of forces strikes me as silly in a confined area like the ‘safe zone.’
 
And in a final act of irresponsibility, Harbinger not only allowed the CB to be captured instead of blowing it up himself, but placed blame for his own failures on a creature that was little more than a puppet.

[xlavaina]

You know what would be a great twist? Something like a Noah's Ark scenario. Shepard realizes after many failed battles with the Reapers that they cannot be stopped, and decides to take a bunch of people from each race and escape the Galaxy.



I can't think of any other possible solution to the Reaper problem.

[Dewarren2010]

The Master Cheif killed both the Covenant and the Flood with a handful of space marines and a some evil-turned-good alien ninjas. Commander Shepard has the Aliance, Council Races, Terminus Systems (if they will cooperate), Rachni, Quarians, and Geth, plus he is 10x more badass than the Master Cheif.



I think we can manage

[James2912]

Dewarren2010 wrote...

The Master Cheif killed both the Covenant and the Flood with a handful of space marines and a some evil-turned-good alien ninjas. Commander Shepard has the Aliance, Council Races, Terminus Systems (if they will cooperate), Rachni, Quarians, and Geth, plus he is 10x more badass than the Master Cheif.

I think we can manage

Exactly. Don't worry about it guys I'm sure you will win just make sure you do your sidequests....

[Interactive Civilian]

I, for one, hope that the super MAC gun that killed the reaper does play a part in ME3, but IS NOT the final solution and victory.



I want to see it in action, and I want to see a few Reapers get taken out by it, but I also want it to not be enough (if you've ever read the Halo book, "The Fall of Reach", think about the final battle over Reach, where the orbital MACs were awesome, but not sufficient for stopping the Covenant).



However, I'd like the final solution to be something more subtle and devious. I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread or in a different thread about the idea (random product of my own imagination) of using the Citadel to take control of the Mass Relay network and reroute all traffic into the vicinity of a star that you can trigger to go Nova. Then you would need to convince your allies to lure the Reapers to the Mass Relays and somehow trap them. They get trapped, routed through the network, and dropped into the heart of a supernova. Goodbye, majority of the Reaper fleet.



I'm not saying I necessarily want this to happen or expect this to happen. But, I do like the idea of something more devious and strategic than, "Hey, I've got a bigger gun. Bring it!"

[Sajuro]

 
Arc Gurren Lagann would like to inform you your argument is invalid.

[msantos]

Cerberus gets the reaper tech from the collector base anyway, even if Shepard destroys the collector base. He'll do so from fragments of the base and apply the tech as implants on test subjects like he does to his ex-operative Paul Grayson.

This would likely mean that Cerberus will provide the way to deal a crippling blow to the reapers with their own tech in ME3, but the adapted reaper tech alone would not end the reaper threat once and for all. All it would do is incite yet another follow-up invasion.

[Zeke01231]

Three words...Wave Motion Gun.

[samurai crusade]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

However, I'd like the final solution to be something more subtle and devious. I think I mentioned something earlier in this thread or in a different thread about the idea (random product of my own imagination) of using the Citadel to take control of the Mass Relay network and reroute all traffic into the vicinity of a star that you can trigger to go Nova. Then you would need to convince your allies to lure the Reapers to the Mass Relays and somehow trap them. They get trapped, routed through the network, and dropped into the heart of a supernova. Goodbye, majority of the Reaper fleet.

I'm not saying I necessarily want this to happen or expect this to happen. But, I do like the idea of something more devious and strategic than, "Hey, I've got a bigger gun. Bring it!"

Interesting idea... set a relay trap for the Reapers.   However, the Council threw a fit over a tactical nuke used at Saren's research lab.  I doubt they or anyone would detonate a stare whose radiation would fry every living thing in nearby systems.   Super-novas are wide-spread destruction.

[thegreateski]

We have Thanix cannons. We are significantly more numerous then the Reapers.



The Reapers depended on using the Citadel to turn off the Mass Relays and isolate their foes. As long as we can hold the Citadel, we can beat the Reapers.

[Interactive Civilian]

thegreateski wrote...

We have Thanix cannons. We are significantly more numerous then the Reapers.

The Reapers depended on using the Citadel to turn off the Mass Relays and isolate their foes. As long as we can hold the Citadel, we can beat the Reapers.

One Reaper alone was nearly enough to take the Citadel. It had the strong advantage over the Council Fleet, and if its concern had been in destroying them rather than getting to the Citadel before Saren closed the wards, I have no doubt it could have.

Defeating that Reaper required the assistance of the Alliance fleet, and I don't doubt that it being stuck to the Citadel rather than able to fly freely played a part in its defeat.

If you want to hold the Citadel against a fleet of Reapers, you will need to pretty much abandon and leave defenseless most or all of the other worlds of each species. Otherwise, I'd expect a fleet of Reapers to crush any defense, just as the single reaper was able to walk through the Council fleet. Since the Reapers built the relays, I wouldn't be surprised if they could somehow undermine our control of the relays, assuming we get the knowledge to take control of them.

A long drawn out defense of the Citadel doesn't seem like a good idea. The Reapers are probably better at being patient and laying seige than we are at holding out during one. It seems to me that conventional warfare will not work well, and a long, drawn out conflict would be to our disadvantage (basing this on the idea that the Reapers are known to take centuries to harvest the galaxy).

Which is why I hope the final solution is more subtle, requires some good strategy (which would require some good storytelling to set up), and results in ending the war in a single, swift, decisive blow.

Modifié par Interactive Civilian, 13 janvier 2011 - 05:46 .

[Eddo36]

Death Star needs to be created in ME3.

[Sajuro]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Which is why I hope the final solution is more subtle, requires some good strategy (which would require some good storytelling to set up), and results in ending the war in a single, swift, decisive blow.

Spy's sappin' mah Reaper!

[SandTrout]

Interactive Civilian wrote...
One Reaper alone was nearly enough to take the Citadel. It had the strong advantage over the Council Fleet, and if its concern had been in destroying them rather than getting to the Citadel before Saren closed the wards, I have no doubt it could have.

Sovereign did not take on the Citadel Fleet single-handed. It made sure that it had a massive Geth force to escort it and a Geth ground-team to infiltrate Citadel Control to ensure that the Ward Arms weren't closed before it was inside. The Battle of the Citadel was a Gamble on Sovereign's part, and one it needed a lot of help with to make feasible. Staying outside to finish the fight and clean up the Citadel fleet while the Geth cleared the inside of the Citadel gradually was not considered a viable option, which means that Sovereign wasn't as confident as you in its ability to make it though that battle in one peace. It wouldn't matter if a couple of the Citadel ships escaped to warn the rest of the galaxy, because the Reapers would be able to shut down the Relay network before economies could be placed on war footing to repel the invasion.

Modifié par SandTrout, 13 janvier 2011 - 06:21 .

[Jorina Leto]

XavierHollywood wrote...

If all it takes is a few years for the Reapers to fly from dark space into the Milky Way, then why would they bother for over 300 years to get the Citadel relay open?

Maybe they need to discharge. And since there are no planets in dark space they have to rely on other reapers.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Pwner1323 wrote...



Why doesn't this inspire any kind of motivation or hope?

Because it was only one reaper.

BTW, how do you use images on this board?