74 réponses à ce sujet

[PsychoWARD23]

 

[TheRealIncarnal]

Umm... I don't think it would be appropriate for the Asari councilor to sex commander Shepard.

[StarcloudSWG]

Because that would have required her to be unshackled from the Idiot Ball.

And there is a version of "Embracing Eternity" which apparently is just information transfer. Because what Shiala and Shepard did was clearly not as sensual or as involved as Shepard and Liara's scene in the cabin.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:47 .

[didymos1120]

Why would she have found them convincing? She believed Shep saw what she/he saw, but disputed the accuracy and validity. For all she knew, Shep had just discovered the direct neural interface equivalent of a Prothean disaster movie and mistook it for a genuine historical record.  Experiencing it for herself would not have made a whit of difference as to the authenticity question.

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 janvier 2011 - 03:50 .

[Aliwa]

Ah, yes the Asari "Embracing Eternity...." We have dismissed that claim!

[jackkel dragon]

I love didymos's threory of the council's theory. It's like someone thousands of years from now trying to understand the movie 2012.

[James2912]

Really it all just depends on how effective the technique is. I mean if its just flashing pictures maybe not, but if she can since shepard is telling the truth then they better invest more resources. Honestly if the galaxy had been preparing there would have been a lot less for shepard to do in ME2 so the council's denial is a plot device. The Council's ineptness is going to get billions killed no matter what shepard does, its one of those plot points that you can't do anything about...

[Estelindis]

This has already been discussed a few times, actually. She'd share some parts of Shepard's vision, but that wouldn't bring her any closer to knowing whether it was based in truth or just a product of Shepard's fevered imagination.

[cachx]

I was thinking about this the other day and it occurred to me that it would not be "transparent" enough for the other two council members.

I can totally picture the Turian councilor going:

"You're in league with this human, for all I know the things you planted in my mind are a fabrication! Evidence Dismissed!".

[James2912]

Estelindis wrote...

This has already been discussed a few times, actually. She'd share some parts of Shepard's vision, but that wouldn't bring her any closer to knowing whether it was based in truth or just a product of Shepard's fevered imagination.

This may well be true but it is not fact none of us knows the limits of the mind meld thingy maybe she can tell if he is truthful or not. 

[Sajuro]

jackkel dragon wrote...

I love didymos's threory of the council's theory. It's like someone thousands of years from now trying to understand the movie 2012.

the true horror is that that movie would exist 50,000 years from now.

[didymos1120]

The other thing to realize is that the nifty vision movie we see doesn't really convey what a disjointed confusing mess it was to Shepard. That and there's the whole contamination issue: was all that stuff even from the same data file or whatever? The beacons were just general purpose comm devices, used to transfer all sorts of data. Then there's the fact that they weren't designed for non-Protheans. Yet another consideration: was all of it truly from the beacon? Was Shep's brain just filling in gaps with things he/she had recently seen or was familiar with in order to render it into something somewhat comprehensible? Just google "false memories" and "confabulation". As an example, did Shep truly see any reapers in that vision, or was the memory of Sovereign, seen just prior to the vision incident, getting mixed up with whatever was actually on the beacon?

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:34 .

[didymos1120]

James2912 wrote...
This may well be true but it is not fact none of us knows the limits of the mind meld thingy maybe she can tell if he is truthful or not. 

She already believed Shep was being truthful.  She just didn't think the vision was reliable, no matter how sincere Shep was about his/her interpretation of it.

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:30 .

[jackkel dragon]

didymos continues to amaze me without driving me off, like some people with good ideas.



The false images of Sovereign intrigue me, even if that's almost certainly not what was intended.

[didymos1120]

jackkel dragon wrote...

didymos continues to amaze me without driving me off, like some people with good ideas.

The false images of Sovereign intrigue me, even if that's almost certainly not what was intended.

Don't get me wrong.  I don't think Shep imagined a thing.  But people really overestimate how plausible that tale is because, well, we very understandably identify with Shepard and we also know we're playing a game about saving the galaxy and we know how these stories work: the hero is almost always right about this stuff.

But there's basically no way to prove that, pretty much for the entire game (basically, up until you talk to Vigil, at which point you've got other things to worry about than properly documenting evidence).  There are just too many reasonable objections that make the whole melding thing moot.  Even the "Saren is feeding you disinformation" thing that came up later was perfectly plausible, and even more likely given that, well, he had demonstrated a prodigious capacity for deceit and was one of the most effective Spectres ever. And, it's also worth noting the Asari councilor isn't Liara.  She's not a prothean expert, and she's definitely not a prothean expert who is mostly known in her own field for having an idiosyncractic theory of galactic extinction cycles, one iteration of which was responsible for the prothean extinction. I.e., a person who would be very much predisposed to favoring Shep's interpretation. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:01 .

[Sidac]

jackkel dragon wrote...

I love didymos's threory of the council's theory. It's like someone thousands of years from now trying to understand the movie 2012.

Its a real feat to watch that movie and not choke to death laughing.

[Moiaussi]

It would, however, put to the lie the concept that this was all Saren's big hoax. Saren mentioned reapers to the Geth completely independantly of Shepard's vision from the beacon.



When you have enough independently corraborating pieces of data, they do constitute evidence.

[Destroy Raiden_]

She’s probably scared on what she’ll find also she’s probably scared she’ll suddenly want in his pants once it’s all done. What? It worked with Liara and Shaira didn’t it? Or maybe once they hit Matriarch they can no longer meld with people it just stops working.

[MassEffect762]

mmm Tevos.



I'd bet the thought didn't even occur to Bioware.

[Destroy Raiden_]

didymos1120 wrote...

The other thing to realize is that the nifty vision movie we see doesn't really convey what a disjointed confusing mess it was to Shepard. That and there's the whole contamination issue: was all that stuff even from the same data file or whatever? The beacons were just general purpose comm devices, used to transfer all sorts of data. Then there's the fact that they weren't designed for non-Protheans. Yet another consideration: was all of it truly from the beacon? Was Shep's brain just filling in gaps with things he/she had recently seen or was familiar with in order to render it into something somewhat comprehensible? Just google "false memories" and "confabulation". As an example, did Shep truly see any reapers in that vision, or was the memory of Sovereign, seen just prior to the vision incident, getting mixed up with whatever was actually on the beacon?

The only time I physically saw a prothean in the vision was in ME2 when you get the pyramid beacon from mercs holding it for ransom or something, anyway Shep interfaces with it and there for a split second you see a collector/prothean begging on his/her knees and what appears to be from a reaper indoctrinated POV as they’re attacking them. At no time in ME did a prothean/collector show up just vague machine references so she could always link this back to you saw something on the geth and so the council's side that shep mistook it all would still stand.
 

[Moiaussi]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

The only time I physically saw a prothean in the vision was in ME2 when you get the pyramid beacon from mercs holding it for ransom or something, anyway Shep interfaces with it and there for a split second you see a collector/prothean begging on his/her knees and what appears to be from a reaper indoctrinated POV as they’re attacking them. At no time in ME did a prothean/collector show up just vague machine references so she could always link this back to you saw something on the geth and so the council's side that shep mistook it all would still stand.
 

If all Shepard saw was what we saw, he really was mad to conclude anything from it. The inference is that there was more to it than that little clip.

Either that, or Shepard really is insane, and the reapers aren't really coming after all.

[CARL_DF90]

Hmm....I see a good point, and a giant plot hole forming here.

[InvincibleHero]

It is made abundantly clear when Liara does it that there is some risk to allowing it to occur. If the first human spectre gets lobotomized by an Asari might the Alliance dfigure politics and come to war with them? Maybe. You trust Liara, but an Asari councillor that doesn't believe you not so much.

[008Zulu]

Is the melding just mind to mind contact? For all she knows, Shep could have invented some very realistic memories and knowledge. It's not like there is some sort of lie detector built in to the procedure is there?