261 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

hangmans tree wrote...

Hi.
It hit me on the TW2 forums that some of the newly arrived individuals (female gender) has written off the game after learning that the it has a fixed, male, gender - you can only play that dude with white hair (lol).

It depends on the game.  Sometimes in medieval settings it seems to me like it's more realistic to play a male.  If anyone ever makes a decent Tolkien game, for instance, I wouldn't be playing elven battle maiden.  But one of the great things about DAO was that I felt like you could play a female PC and it wasn't that much of a stretch.  I'll also always prefer having a player-defined character rather than a fixed character.  I like having the option to play male or female.

I liked The Witcher for what it was, and Geralt is an interesting character.  I definitely didn't like how women were portrayed.  But now that I've read the first novel (almost finished, anyway), I don't like how Sapkowski wrote Yennefer, either, so it was not just the game.  I would take Fiona or Rowan over her any day.

[Ortaya Alevli]

I appreciate the women finding a lack of female option in roleplaying games a dealbreaker.

I play characters of either gender whenever possible (as I like to explore everything a game has to offer) but getting into a woman's shoes is no small task. This becomes particularly prominent during romance subplots and the like. It's not the part where I choose what my character would do but rather the one where I figure out *why* she would do it. Girl talk with Leliana during the Alistair romance, for example. Up to that point, I play a Warden and decide on her take on various situations, be they political, moral, sentimental or otherwise. "Yeah, this is one mean lady, she should extort Godwin's pants from him." So far so good. But then Leli starts with her "So... You and Alistair?"

Oh goody.

Now how should she carry on with the conversation? I spent 20-30 hours playing this character, helped her get to know herself better through difficult challenges and fleshed out her personality. But what does she have to say in *this* situation? I, as a male, lack the necessary mindset. Might as well roleplay Alistair at this point: "W-what are you giggling about? What is she giggling about?"

Eh, I can always go with a shy response or a shameless demeanor offhand, but if you ever ask me about the justification, I'm screwed. It's damn difficult, perhaps impossible, to do justice to a character of opposite sex. Something way over my head, at least.

[errant_knight]

s0meguy6665 wrote...

The Witcher 2 is about the protagonist - which happens to be male. There's also games with female protagonists and men don't whine about it.

Who's whining? Saying that it's not something one enjoys as much as a choice is hardly whining.

[Talon_Wu]

Having the choice of a female PC is a pretty huge factor for me, though it's not completely deal-breaking if I like the story well enough. For instance, I can play Gordon Freeman or Master Chief alright, but I don't consider them true roleplaying - they're an interactive story. Playing as my own gender helps me connect with the character in a more complete way.

As for pre-defined, I enjoy Tomb Raider well enough. In the past there was No One Lives Forever, Syberia, The Longest Journey. Not all that many, really. There was a closer connection than with predefined male characters, but that may have just been the novelty of having female protagonists. They were still someone else that I was just tagging along with. They were very appreciated, though, just as BioWare's customization and storytelling options are now.

[errant_knight]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I appreciate the women finding a lack of female option in roleplaying games a dealbreaker.

I play characters of either gender whenever possible (as I like to explore everything a game has to offer) but getting into a woman's shoes is no small task. This becomes particularly prominent during romance subplots and the like. It's not the part where I choose what my character would do but rather the one where I figure out *why* she would do it. Girl talk with Leliana during the Alistair romance, for example. Up to that point, I play a Warden and decide on her take on various situations, be they political, moral, sentimental or otherwise. "Yeah, this is one mean lady, she should extort Godwin's pants from him." So far so good. But then Leli starts with her "So... You and Alistair?"

Oh goody.

Now how should she carry on with the conversation? I spent 20-30 hours playing this character, helped her get to know herself better through difficult challenges and fleshed out her personality. But what does she have to say in *this* situation? I, as a male, lack the necessary mindset. Might as well roleplay Alistair at this point: "W-what are you giggling about? What is she giggling about?"

Eh, I can always go with a shy response or a shameless demeanor offhand, but if you ever ask me about the justification, I'm screwed. It's damn difficult, perhaps impossible, to do justice to a character of opposite sex. Something way over my head, at least.

Well, she probably says pretty much the same thing a male of her disposition would say to another guy with whom he had a similar relationship as you PC's to Leliana. Only with snickering instead of giggling. We're not really all that different. I do wish Alistair's line was 'Why is Leliana giggling?' though, because not all my female PCs would be.

[Maria Caliban]

hangmans tree wrote...

Hi.
It hit me on the TW2 forums that some of the newly arrived individuals (female gender) has written off the game after learning that the it has a fixed, male, gender - you can only play that dude with white hair (lol).

I would like to ask you Ladies, what importance has the gender in DA2? Would you pick it up regardeless based on...what? BW legacy? Story? Universe and lore? Characters and acting?
I know that the decision leaving only a human origin for Hawke made some uproar. What if Hawke was set as a male only character? Human male.
What makes the game unique (supposedly - it aint out yet - duh)? What is the first thing that draws female gamers to the title?

On the other side of things, if DA2 had a fixed female character, like Lara Croft lets say, would it be more appealing?

Speak up Ladies! Call it my need to know!

Most women are used to films/games/books having a male lead. I don't know what the numbers are for games, but fiction book sales from predominantly women to the point that many publishers encourage authors to have the leads be men in order to 'lure' in male readers as they don't have to worry about women not picking it up.

As for games -- it depends. I like playing women and am used to it in RPGs. When it comes to 'which RPG am I looking forward to the most?' the one where I can play a woman will always be a priority.

[Thiefy]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

I appreciate the women finding a lack of female option in roleplaying games a dealbreaker.

I play characters of either gender whenever possible (as I like to explore everything a game has to offer) but getting into a woman's shoes is no small task. This becomes particularly prominent during romance subplots and the like. It's not the part where I choose what my character would do but rather the one where I figure out *why* she would do it. Girl talk with Leliana during the Alistair romance, for example. Up to that point, I play a Warden and decide on her take on various situations, be they political, moral, sentimental or otherwise. "Yeah, this is one mean lady, she should extort Godwin's pants from him." So far so good. But then Leli starts with her "So... You and Alistair?"

Oh goody.

Now how should she carry on with the conversation? I spent 20-30 hours playing this character, helped her get to know herself better through difficult challenges and fleshed out her personality. But what does she have to say in *this* situation? I, as a male, lack the necessary mindset. Might as well roleplay Alistair at this point: "W-what are you giggling about? What is she giggling about?"

Eh, I can always go with a shy response or a shameless demeanor offhand, but if you ever ask me about the justification, I'm screwed. It's damn difficult, perhaps impossible, to do justice to a character of opposite sex. Something way over my head, at least.

this made me smile and giggle on the inside

[peril]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...
Eh, I can always go with a shy response or a shameless demeanor offhand, but if you ever ask me about the justification, I'm screwed. It's damn difficult, perhaps impossible, to do justice to a character of opposite sex. Something way over my head, at least.

A bit OT, but the differences between men and women are vastly exaggerated by tradition and media. Just write both genders the same, but stay aware of the world that would have brought them up. Women grow up pressured to act one way, men grow up pressured to act another way. If your character is a tough no fee-fees kinda lady, she probably wouldn't be into girl talk. Unless you want kindness to friends as a feature of her character or something, but that's all completely irrelevant to her gender.

...anyway, I prefer playing female characters. Men as action heroes are a dime a dozen.

[Addai]

peril wrote...
A bit OT, but the differences between men and women are vastly exaggerated by tradition and media. Just write both genders the same, but stay aware of the world that would have brought them up. Women grow up pressured to act one way, men grow up pressured to act another way. If your character is a tough no fee-fees kinda lady, she probably wouldn't be into girl talk. Unless you want kindness to friends as a feature of her character or something, but that's all completely irrelevant to her gender.

...anyway, I prefer playing female characters. Men as action heroes are a dime a dozen.

That's really true.  People are people and individuals vary so much that any talk of gender roles is always mostly about stereotype.  I guess the bottom line is, an interesting character is interesting no matter the gender.  For roleplay purposes, I prefer a female, but only if it feels realistic in the setting.  "Girl with gun" or "ninja girl" can be as cliche'd as male action hero.

[Ortaya Alevli]

errant_knight wrote...

Well, she probably says pretty much the same thing a male of her disposition would say to another guy with whom he had a similar relationship as you PC's to Leliana. Only with snickering instead of giggling. We're not really all that different. I do wish Alistair's line was 'Why is Leliana giggling?' though, because not all my female PCs would be.

I can understand where you're coming from, but thinking back the days spent on a bar stool with buddies, I sincerely doubt that. Though perhaps it's just me and my circle of friends; that's also a possibility.

[Estelindis]

I loved Planescape: Torment, The Witcher, and Alpha Protocol, even though they all had fixed male characters. They also had interesting plots, action, and relationships, which is the key. But if a game can offers me all that *and* the chance of playing a female character, that's what I'll prefer. (If, on the other hand, it's a choice between a deep and interesting RPG with a fixed male character and a shallow dungeoncrawl with the possibility to play female, I'll go with the male-PC RPG every time.)

[Korva]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

But what does she have to say in *this* situation? I, as a male, lack the necessary mindset.

That is not a "male" thing. It is a socialization and personality thing, in my book. I'm a woman, and I certainly "lack the necessary mindset" as well. Stereotypical "girl talk", especially about boys and fashion? At best you get a blank stare, at worst a "don't bother me with that vapid crap".

Leliana's more "girly" moments in her own romance were certainly among the more awkward ones in the game for me. Heh. Maybe it's for the best my character died (sacrifice ending) before the strength of their relationship could be put to the test over such mundanes but still deep differences.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Korva wrote...

Stereotypical "girl talk", especially about boys and fashion? At best you get a blank stare, at worst a "don't bother me with that vapid crap".

Why, if I may ask?

[abaris]

For me it boils down to longevity.



If you have one dude or gal following a more or less straight storyline, its enjoy it and destroy it. Replaying would give you pretty much the same experience with some probable forks. In my book that's not worth the money they're charging nowadays.



That said, I have played games with a premade hero or heroine. But I bought them when they were on budget, long after they first hit the shelves. Sure, they were fun, but after the first playthrough they collected dust.

[maxernst]

I wonder if how easy players find playing the opposite gender is related to their personal experience. It doesn't feel like that much of a stretch for me--I grew up in a house with three sisters, I have a couple of very close female friends, I read a lot of woman authors who write from a female perspective. I feel like all of these give me insight into how a woman might respond to a given situation.



I find it much harder to get into a dwarven or dalish elf male than a female human because their cultures are alien to me; I don't have a proper frame of reference to work from. At least the human society in Ferelden, though very different from our society, has lots of parallels with historical and fantasy settings I'm familiar with.

[Addai]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Korva wrote...

Stereotypical "girl talk", especially about boys and fashion? At best you get a blank stare, at worst a "don't bother me with that vapid crap".

Why, if I may ask?

The same way not all men like to talk about sports and cars.

I do find that when playing a male PC, I approach it with more distance.  My one male PC in Origins was a Morrigan romancer, and I was more putting myself in her shoes rather than his.  So I played him as I would want a man to treat me, and it was kind of fun being the dashing knight.  Literally getting to slay a dragon on her behalf.    It's still fun, but not as absorbing as playing a female which is more relatable to me.

[EnchantedEyes1]

I certainly prefer games which allow me to play as a female PC, but it must also have an interesting story. I have played many games with a male protagonist and loved them, but I feel a special sense of satisfaction when playing a female that I define and create. I will certainly choose a game that allows me to do this over one that does not, most things being equal.  

Even playing DAO with a male character took me almost a year to complete, and I only regained interest once WH was released because the ending for my female PCs were not as satisfying as I would have wanted.

In the end, I like playing most games based on the story, or objectives - but will always gravitate first to a female protagonist. I really love how BioWare handles female PCs.

[maxernst]

Addai67 wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Korva wrote...

Stereotypical "girl talk", especially about boys and fashion? At best you get a blank stare, at worst a "don't bother me with that vapid crap".

Why, if I may ask?

The same way not all men like to talk about sports and cars.

I do find that when playing a male PC, I approach it with more distance.  My one male PC in Origins was a Morrigan romancer, and I was more putting myself in her shoes rather than his.  So I played him as I would want a man to treat me, and it was kind of fun being the dashing knight.  Literally getting to slay a dragon on her behalf.    It's still fun, but not as absorbing as playing a female which is more relatable to me.

@Addai67, have you ever read Triton, by Samuel R. Delaney?  The protagonist has a sex-change in order to be the kind of woman that he wants as a man.

[Annarl]

It's not too important to me. In a rpg the quality of the story is more important. As others have mention, The Witcher has a very predefined world so playing as Geralt to me is very understandable. The story was great and I really enjoyed the game. And when available I generally end up playing both genders anyways. As a woman I enjoy playing male character too.

[EnchantedEyes1]

Addai67 wrote...

The same way not all men like to talk about sports and cars.

I do find that when playing a male PC, I approach it with more distance.  My one male PC in Origins was a Morrigan romancer, and I was more putting myself in her shoes rather than his.  So I played him as I would want a man to treat me, and it was kind of fun being the dashing knight.  Literally getting to slay a dragon on her behalf.    It's still fun, but not as absorbing as playing a female which is more relatable to me.

Interesting that you mention this, I just realized this is how I played my one male character. Well, mostly anyway

[Ortaya Alevli]

Addai67 wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Korva wrote...

Stereotypical "girl talk", especially about boys and fashion? At best you get a blank stare, at worst a "don't bother me with that vapid crap".

Why, if I may ask?

The same way not all men like to talk about sports and cars.

But what is this "same" way?

I'm trying to get at something here. My female Warden might consider Alistair giving her a rose a nice gesture. Your female Warden might agree, too. But would they both feel the same way about it? I don't know. Personally I only know how some women react in such situations, and that's on the outside. Individual variety aside, I find it hard to feel or reason like a woman in general. I have more female friends than male ones in real life, close ones I mean, sharing and discussing stuff and everything, but the difference is still there.

[Korva]

Ortaya Alevli wrote...
Why, if I may ask?

Because to me, it is vapid crap that I have zero interest in, connection to or understanding of, nor would I want to. And it is supremely irritating when someone gives the implicit or explicit impression that just because I have teats, I SHOULD be all gushy-goo about these things. It is as Addai67 said, not all woman like A and not all men like B, even in the face of massive social pressure and gender stereotyping.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Korva wrote...

Ortaya Alevli wrote...
Why, if I may ask?

Because to me, it is vapid crap that I have zero interest in, connection to or understanding of, nor would I want to. And it is supremely irritating when someone gives the implicit or explicit impression that just because I have teats, I SHOULD be all gushy-goo about these things. It is as Addai67 said, not all woman like A and not all men like B, even in the face of massive social pressure and gender stereotyping.

I actually meant to ask why you find it all vapid, but thanks nonetheless.

[abaris]

Korva wrote...

I SHOULD be all gushy-goo about these things. It is as Addai67 said, not all woman like A and not all men like B, even in the face of massive social pressure and gender stereotyping.

Right. Even though I am male you could bore me witless with sports talk.

Cars might be another matter, but only when it comes to vintage ones.

I think I like to play the occasional female character because I'm not. I play a mage because there are no mages and I like to play the occasional evil git because I tend to think I'm not.

Modifié par abaris, 12 janvier 2011 - 08:02 .

[Addai]

maxernst wrote...

@Addai67, have you ever read Triton, by Samuel R. Delaney?  The protagonist has a sex-change in order to be the kind of woman that he wants as a man.

  No, haven't read that.  Probably shouldn't comment.  That's like... Freud on crack.