125 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

"That is entirely what fuelled my topic on this subject as well. I don't
play Dragon Age to romance characters, and find much too much
significance is being placed on the subject of romance and romance-able
characters."

All romances are entirely optional in all of these games and as you have pointed out in other posts they do not dedicate an innordinate amount of time or resources on them. 

I'd also say that BioWare has painted themselves into a bit of a corner and not in a bad way as far as the romance thing goes.  They are now expected in every rpg type of game they do and the small bit of discontent with having them included would be dwarfed by howls of discontent if BioWare eliminated them.  In the end they are just another action between player and compaion.

[AlexXIV]

Liable****sman wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

But having romance in a story can make the story that much more enjoyable?

If a romance has significance to the plot, is well-thought-out and develop in a realistical manner, I'm not going to be complaining. So far, though, that isn't often (if ever) the case.

Well yes the point is that your romance could give you a different angle to think about things. For example you have a Leliana romance, you won't do certain things that put her off or even make her attack you (Sacred Ashes). Or the Dark Ritual gets a bit different meaning if the Warden doesn't just do it to save his skin but rather 'for love'. Or think if Shale was a LI, that could influence Orzammar decissions or if you had an elven LI it could influence the Brecilian Forrest quests. Also Alistair at the Landsmeet. For example you could wonder how many people killed Loghain because Alistair was a LI.

[Elite Midget]

I personally see nothing wrong with being Nerds. Maybe it's bad in countries that rely on bvrute strength and savage enviroments but in the modern world it's either the Super Athlets and the Nerds that are widely seen and praised. THat and Nerds are human too and share the same urges as everyone else.

Just because nerds are 'normally' smarter than their brutish counterparts desn't mean that they aren't just as interested in sex. Especially since a Great Mind is just as good as a Great Body in the Modern World.

/rant

As for LIs...

The Modern World is still moving too slow in regards to treating Gays/Lesbians and Bisexuals with the same respect and rights as Straight Couples. Thus I look to the Digitial Formats for Innovation and change and unsiurpringly the Digital Worlds is Leagues ahead of the Modern World in these aspects. That's why I see it as a huge issue when Digital Formats push Straight and Bisexual Romances but leave out Gays/Lesbians or use loopoholes to deny their existence. Though obviously Gay Men in both digitally and in real life are far more prosecueted compared to Lesbian. Though it doesn't mean it's okay that both are still mistreated.

F.Y.I - I'm not gay but have known many gay friends who were mistreated by others who knew nothing of them other than that they were gay.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:18 .

[obsessedwjpn]

scyphozoa wrote...

I think there is too great of an emphasis being put on romances. I want Bioware to take a step back from romances and consider making a future game from the ground up without any romances.

I play video games to do things I can't do in real life, like swashbuckle and shoot assault rifles. I have a girlfriend, I'm not interested in romancing elves. Sure, its just my opinion, but its frustrating to see one of my favorite developers increasingly emphasize content I don't value.

Bioware is always going to make content that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE doesn't value. We all have different preferences and we all want different things. Bioware can't please us all. I have a boyfriend in real life but I still think seeing how Hawke interacts in a romance with an elf would be interesting. Just enjoy the ride of the game. 

[sevalaricgirl]

I thought DAO's relationships were very feasible and loved them. You're traveling by horse everywhere. You're on the road with your companions for a long time. In fact, Wynne told my mage character that my mage was away from the tower for a year and that was just after Circle Tower which I do in this order, Ostagar, Lothering, Sacred Ashes, Circle Tower so I've obviously been with Alistair for a year and Morrigan slightly shorter time. In these games, you have to select all of the dialogue options to find the time frame for the game. A year is plenty of time for a character to fall in love with another character. I met and married my husband in 4 months and we've been married for 21 years. I love romances in games and was highly disappointed with ME2. DAO restored my faith in Bioware. I've played it 12 times from Origins to Coronation. I'm in my 13th playthrough now.

[Follow Me on Twitter]

 Dragon Age 2 : We all getting Laid

Thats Biowares new tagline for the game.

[Irkalla]

Liable****sman wrote...


Maybe I should have defined what I meant by "escapism" when I used it - I didn't mean in a sense that I was unhappy with my life, but more that I view gaming as a whole as recreational. You "escape" the banalities of every-day life. I relieve stress a lot, for example, when playing a game.
You don't shoot guns in CoD because you miss being able to kill people in real life. It's escapism because it's fun in a manner that wholely detracts from real-life.
This is all going beside the point, though, and we should leave that out of this discussion.

But you're hitting the nail on the head, otherwise, in that RPGs revolve around the characters and the story.
I found the characters to be well-written and well-developed in a general sense, too, in Origins. I just found the romances(You know, what the topic is about) to not be.

You're talking about "experiencing something you couldn't experience in real life", and "Special environment". What do you mean?
Given that the romances themselves are not really affected(Just like almost all dialogue) by the fact that the Blight might in the world in a week, I don't see where you're going with that.

Yeah, putting escapism like that, without the anti-social side part, pretty much defines me and how I experience games of various genres.

What I meant  is that rpgs give you the opportunity to experience life in another reality, meeting different kind of people, races, customs. It gives you new abilities, power or limits other things that we take for granted in our reality. To put it simple, we are rpging. So we are put into this new world, meet companions, bond with them, and possibly develop a relationship with one. Isn't that what makes you feel like you really belong somewhere? I don't understand why friendship is okay with you but romance is not? Or is it the fact that you found the romance lacking the thing that is bothering you?  I don't think they have to be necessarily relevant to the plot, even though Morrigan's and Alistair's are, I liked Zevran's and Lily's just as much. It's about support and a sense of belonging, a proof that a character inworld acknowledges and appreciates your existence. Isn't that escapism at it's finest?

[peril]

Come to think of it, I actually might be more likely to pass on a Bioware game if it didn't contain any romance. Not because seeing that awkward sex scene is the height of my gaming experience, but because the thing that sets Bioware titles apart from the rest, for me, is the scope of the character writing.



And LIs do seem kind of a staple. If they were to cut the option out, that would send a message that they're less interested in characterization for that title. And I'd be more likely to spend my money on something else.

[obsessedwjpn]

scyphozoa wrote...

obsessedwjpn wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

I think there is too great of an emphasis being put on romances. I want Bioware to take a step back from romances and consider making a future game from the ground up without any romances.

I play video games to do things I can't do in real life, like swashbuckle and shoot assault rifles. I have a girlfriend, I'm not interested in romancing elves. Sure, its just my opinion, but its frustrating to see one of my favorite developers increasingly emphasize content I don't value.

Bioware is always going to make content that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE doesn't value. We all have different preferences and we all want different things. Bioware can't please us all. I have a boyfriend in real life but I still think seeing how Hawke interacts in a romance with an elf would be interesting. Just enjoy the ride of the game. 

That is totally fair and you're right that every game will always offer content that won't please everyone. My thinking is this. Romances in Bioware games is a traditional convention. Lets abandon that convention. In the same way that I want to see Bioware make a platformer or a FPS. I want to see Bioware deviate and experiement from its most traditional conventions, formulas and elements. 

If I recall, BG1, BG2, NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME1, DAO, ME2 and DA2 - ALL have Love interests.

How about Bioware deviating from the convention of romances. Not for all future games, just for 1 game. I think the people who want and enjoy love interests have gotten a ton of titles and content, essentially the entire Bioware catalog. How about providing a Bioware game with no love interest to those of us who want that?

I understand how you feel, there are a lot of games that I have played by other companies that I wish would try and change a bit. However, Awakening did not have romance, even though it was rather short and I realize that it was more an add on than a whole other story/game like DA2 is. Bioware did experiment with having no romances and I am sure they might try it again in the future, I encourage companies like Bioware to try many different things, but I also think that including the romances does affect a core set of gamers. 

Some people just come to expect certain things from certain games. For example: Assassin's Creed is known for its free roaming concept and some people hate it while others love it. The company keeps up with this idea despite the fact that they know it may sell less copies because for those who love it they will buy it and those who don't: they will find another game. 

I, personally, support romanceable characters just because it is something fun to distract me from normal life. However, I also don't relate myself to Hawke as much as some people do. I am NOT Hawke, I simply see the world through his or her eyes. I know the difference between what my reality is experiencing and what I am experiencing through an RPG character's eyes. RPGs are made for the purpose of standing in the shoes of a character but I think some people take that to the extremes, even with the romances. 

[syllogi]

scyphozoa wrote...

That is totally fair and you're right that every game will always offer content that won't please everyone. My thinking is this. Romances in Bioware games is a traditional convention. Lets abandon that convention. In the same way that I want to see Bioware make a platformer or a FPS. I want to see Bioware deviate and experiement from its most traditional conventions, formulas and elements. 

If I recall, BG1, BG2, NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME1, DAO, ME2 and DA2 - ALL have Love interests.

How about Bioware deviating from the convention of romances. Not for all future games, just for 1 game. I think the people who want and enjoy love interests have gotten a ton of titles and content, essentially the entire Bioware catalog. How about providing a Bioware game with no love interest to those of us who want that?

Just a quibble, but BG1 had no love interests, much less meaningful interactions with companions.

And if you choose not to take advantage of that option, all of those other games can be played with no love interests.  I played several of those games that way, every single time, and I don't feel that my experience was hurt by knowing that other people were romancing characters. 

[Tiax Rules All]

scyphozoa wrote...

If I recall, BG1, BG2, NWN, KOTOR, JE, ME1, DAO, ME2 and DA2 - ALL have Love interests.

How about Bioware deviating from the convention of romances. Not for all future games, just for 1 game. I think the people who want and enjoy love interests have gotten a ton of titles and content, essentially the entire Bioware catalog. How about providing a Bioware game with no love interest to those of us who want that?

Why? for the love of god why?
just dont romance them... problem mother f-ing solved
why delete it just because YOU dont want it. If you ever DO feel like it it will be there for you.
Your request is dumb.

[Tiax Rules All]

oh and DAo takes place over about 2 years.. That isn't long enough to "date" someone before turning into a serious romance?... Think about it. Its never meant to be that the conversations you see are ALL the conversations that ever take place between party members, use your imagination

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:46 .

[Tiax Rules All]

scyphozoa wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
 I played several of those games that way, every single time, and I don't feel that my experience was hurt by knowing that other people were romancing characters. 

Its not that I feel my experience was hurt by knowing other people were playing the game a different way. What I want is a game designed from the ground up that features no love interests. Its not about depriving other people of something I don't like. I want people to enjoy their games. But I think a Bioware game - or any game - will be fundamentally different if you don't add love interests at all than if you add them and make them optional.

Optional love interests != designing a game without Love interests, and the latter is my goal. Deviate from convention, innovate and experiement. 

Yeah.... the characters would be exactly the same except you would not have the option to romance them.... where is the upside again?

Modifié par Tiax Rules All, 12 janvier 2011 - 04:47 .

[AlexXIV]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

oh and DAo takes place over about 2 years.. That isn't long enough to "date" someone before turning into a serious romance... Think about it. Its never meant to be that the conversations you see are ALL the conversations that ever take place between party members, use your imagination

Well depends. I'd say 2 years is enough to get married, if it is the right person. Also there is this 'love on first sight' thing. I always thought my male Warden fell in love Morrigan the first time they met in the Korcari wilds. And if someone knows exactly  what he or she wants there is not really much reason to 'take things slow'.

[Tiax Rules All]

AlexXIV wrote...

Tiax Rules All wrote...

oh and DAo takes place over about 2 years.. That isn't long enough to "date" someone before turning into a serious romance?... Think about it. Its never meant to be that the conversations you see are ALL the conversations that ever take place between party members, use your imagination

Well depends. I'd say 2 years is enough to get married, if it is the right person. Also there is this 'love on first sight' thing. I always thought my male Warden fell in love Morrigan the first time they met in the Korcari wilds. And if someone knows exactly  what he or she wants there is not really much reason to 'take things slow'.

Corrected by adding a question mark.. I agree with you.. my post is supposed to say that it IS PLENTY OF TIME

[peril]

scyphozoa wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
 I played several of those games that way, every single time, and I don't feel that my experience was hurt by knowing that other people were romancing characters. 

Its not that I feel my experience was hurt by knowing other people were playing the game a different way. What I want is a game designed from the ground up that features no love interests. Its not about depriving other people of something I don't like. I want people to enjoy their games. But I think a Bioware game - or any game - will be fundamentally different if you don't add love interests at all than if you add them and make them optional.

Optional love interests != designing a game without Love interests, and the latter is my goal. Deviate from convention, innovate and experiement. 

Games without optional love interests is the convention, if you're willing to look at the market beyond Bioware. And optional love interests are just that: optional. They're in no way an intrinsic part of the way the game is designed to be experienced. It's an extra feature, there for the people into that sort of thing; like an insane difficulty option or the option to make your armor a fabulous hot pink. 

[maxernst]

peril wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...
 I played several of those games that way, every single time, and I don't feel that my experience was hurt by knowing that other people were romancing characters. 

Its not that I feel my experience was hurt by knowing other people were playing the game a different way. What I want is a game designed from the ground up that features no love interests. Its not about depriving other people of something I don't like. I want people to enjoy their games. But I think a Bioware game - or any game - will be fundamentally different if you don't add love interests at all than if you add them and make them optional.

Optional love interests != designing a game without Love interests, and the latter is my goal. Deviate from convention, innovate and experiement. 

Games without optional love interests is the convention, if you're willing to look at the market beyond Bioware. And optional love interests are just that: optional. They're in no way an intrinsic part of the way the game is designed to be experienced. It's an extra feature, there for the people into that sort of thing; like an insane difficulty option or the option to make your armor a fabulous hot pink. 

I prefer Bioware's approach.  Some of my Wardens romance a companion, some don't.  I never romance anybody in Mass Effect.  But to me a game in which a small group of people travel about for two years and there's never a possibility of a romantic connection forming between any of them would be kind of strange.  And if you don't want romance in games, there are many, many games without any romance.  It's almost a Bioware exclusive.

Modifié par maxernst, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:14 .

[Karlojey]

What I don't understand is why do some people treat the sexual relationship a key factor for them to enjoy the game.



Like for every character reveal they always hope the character is a love interest. What happens if they aren't? Will those people totally not enjoy the game? Shouldn't we be more concerned about the story instead of who are the potential love interests?

[Eternal Phoenix]

Tiax Rules All wrote...

Some people think that this kind of emotional bonding deepens character relations. Including the devs. Making the characters more real and the relationships more serious and meaningful. There are some that go overboard but its just talk about a feature they like, whats the harm?

This thread is kinda a troll thread and I think you know it.

There can be deep emotional bonding characters relations without romance included. What made me like DA:O was how my first character who was a male - became best friends with Alistair. Romance has been done so many times in games and it just gets boring - I'd rather Bioware work on friendships more. Including options to drink beer with your friends (like you can drink with people in The Witcher) or fight them in a friendly dual if that's what they like doing.

Honestly, I couldn't care if there was or wasn't romances in DA 2 and OP is not a troll for giving his opinion about this subject.

[Estelindis]

Personally, the romance with Alistair enriched my roleplaying experience in Origins. The decision about who to support for the crown at the Landsmeet wasn't just about Ferelden, or whether Alistair's lack of confidence in himself was misplaced - it was also about the fate of his romantic relationship with the Warden. The choice about the Dark Ritual was similarly deepened and made even more conflicted by their love for each other. Both choices felt like they were ripping my heart out. They would have been difficult and interesting no matter what, but the romance factor increased my personal emotional investment.

It's moments like these, as well as the careful development over a long period of time with lots of dialogue along the way, that makes me say DA:O had the best romance of any roleplaying game I have played. If Bioware keep doing things this way (though maybe with a little less crushing of my heart, I beg), I shall be very pleased. I want my games to be emotionally involving, and I don't know why anyone wouldn't. However, I will of course admit that there are many different kinds of relationships that can lead to increased emotional investment on the part of the player. We'll see how Bioware manages it with Hawke's family, for instance. (Even the small glimpses I got of my city elf's family in DA:O were excellent and drew me in tenfold, so I have high hopes.)

Modifié par Estelindis, 12 janvier 2011 - 05:40 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

^

Almost forgot about family. My City Elf was truly evil but when it came to him family, he protected them and stayed to defend the Alienage when it was attacked by darkspawn for the sake of his family.

[Maria Caliban]

Unlike others, I don't consider this a troll thread. The original post was interesting to me, though I think it could use a bit of focus.

" So uhh... I noticed that Fenris has a lot of rabid male fans, while Cassandra, Merrill and whoever have a lot of rabid female fans. I'm not going anywhere with that, I'm just taking note."

The majority of Fenris fans are female. For most 'fan threads,' the majority of posters will be female.

" I also noticed that this stereotype of "nerds" being less interested in sex, and more interested in other things is being completely overruled by the immense amount of sex-talk about the characters."

There's lots of sex talk about Isabela and Fenris. Not so much about Merril and Aveline. People talk about sex because they're human, because the character does something for them, and because the environment supports talking about sex.

" Look at the italic part at the top - if I actually created a thread like that, I'm pretty sure it would be closed, or at least it would only invite one or two posts before slipping into obscurity.

Are there other rules/trends for bi- and homosexuals - and if yes, then why?"

You wouldn't happen to be referring to my Merril thread, would you?

[Maera Imrov]

..just don't do the romances? That's easy. Other than the fact that (especially in ME2) some characters clammed up unless you romanced them, I've never seen any problem with just befriending those I wasn't romancing. If they just worked on that a bit, there'd be no difference at all.

David Gaider posted about this not too long ago in the Fenris thread, and I'm not going to go digging through pages to find the exact quote, but he mentioned that the romances were one of the hooks in their toolbox. They are trying to get you involved, to care about the story, and that's just one of the tools they use. It works for some people, it doesn't for others. But just because it doesn't work for some people, they aren't going to get rid of it, just like they won't get rid of other elements that work for some, and not for others.