125 réponses à ce sujet

[Thiefy]

LIs aren't the deal breaker to me that a lot of other people make them out to be. They are a super nice bonus though.



It's nice to actually get to play as a female and have it matter instead of having the gender tacked on as a side thought. It's even nicer than I can be so awesome and kick ass AND get the guy, know? You don't really see that a lot. It's usually the action hero saving the useless mary sue girlfriend who is super hot or cute. I like that my PC can still be a hero and have a competent love interest that doesn't get himself capture or killed.



As far as people over reacting saying they won't buy the game is X character isn't an LI and so forth, I really think it's all talk. Fact of the matter is Dragon Age is like crack and people thinking their whining will actually amount to something should show more about their individual character then the fans as a whole. I was one of those when I finished DAO and wanted the perfect ending with femWarden and Alistair - along with 98% of the rest of the females. If anything it shows that 1)we are passionate about the game and characters 2)Bioware did a damn good job.



I guess it really just boils down to a lot of hype. People have so much expectations of "this and that" because they were so pleased with the last installment, they can't fathom that anything outside of what they specifically ask for. As for me, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I've always been attracted to "tall dark and handsome" but I ended up falling for a spikey haired, blond, goofball. How he would have stacked up against my preferrence, I don't know but I'm not going to sit there and think about "what ifs" and "what I don't have" because I'm pretty sticking happy with what I DID get.

[Liablecocksman]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Unlike others, I don't consider this a troll thread. The original post was interesting to me, though I think it could use a bit of focus.

I tend to create threads (and posts) quite impulsively, so that is to blame for the lack of focus. I would edit the original post if less interest had been taken in the topic, but at this stage it wouldn't make sense to do so.

The majority of Fenris fans are female. For most 'fan threads,' the majority of posters will be female.

Oh, I would have guessed that too - I was just taking note, not anything else, since anything else will be pure speculation. If you will allow me to ask you a question then (as you appear to partake, not to mention create, these kinds of threads):
Who are more interested in the aesthetics?
Take Merrill, for example, as that is the character for whom you have created a thread. Who are the more vulgar fanboys/girls? The men or the women? I don't expect you to have some sort of count or exact percentage, or even know the sex of everyone involved in your thread - but what is your general impression? Are both sides equally fond of such posts?

There's lots of sex talk about Isabela and Fenris. Not so much about Merril and Aveline. People talk about sex because they're human, because the character does something for them, and because the environment supports talking about sex.

What about the environment supports such talk? Do you mean because it is itself taking place inside an "appreciation" thread, or however these are called?
While I agree that people talk about sex "because they are human", my interest is if there more significance placed on the sex (from your perspective, observing such threads more than I do) than on the relationship/romance itself? I mean, are people looking forward to the character, or simply thinking the character is sexy and as such looking forward to the sex animation?
I am speaking out of pure, unfiltered ignorance. I find the threads to be related to content to which I do not care about, to be honest, which is why I do not know much about them - as I simply do not read them.

You wouldn't happen to be referring to my Merril thread, would you?

Given that your sex, not to mention sexual preference, is unknown to me - and the fact that I haven't really read your thread... No. I'm not especially talking about your thread, but all such threads in general.
It just seems so off to me that such threads are even relevant, and it is my own (perhaps faulty?) observation that most, if not all, of these threads are about same-sex relations.

What is your opinion on that, then? I doubt you will agree that a "I am straight, and I'm looking forward to sexing up Aveline because she is definitely not gay, right? And I think she looks hot!" would be a low-content topic? Or maybe you would?

Maera Imrov wrote...

..just don't do the romances? That's
easy. Other than the fact that (especially in ME2) some characters
clammed up unless you romanced them, I've never seen any problem with
just befriending those I wasn't romancing. If they just worked on that
a bit, there'd be no difference at all.

David Gaider posted
about this not too long ago in the Fenris thread, and I'm not going to
go digging through pages to find the exact quote, but he mentioned that
the romances were one of the hooks in their toolbox. They are trying to
get you involved, to care about the story, and that's just one of the
tools they use. It works for some people, it doesn't for others. But
just because it doesn't work for some people, they aren't going to get
rid of it, just like they won't get rid of other elements that work for
some, and not for others.

Given that I do not like how the romance are done, I think it's a cheap way of getting people involved. "Wait, isn't this more about the companions than the story? Some orc-like guys are taking over the world... And I'm just recruiting a new dude in each town, that's kind of du-- Wait, Leliana is so sweet. Maybe this isn't so bad. Now I totally need to save the world!"
While I can appreciate it for that, I cannot see what it adds to game beyond it.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:49 .

[Cavi]

I find it rather odd that some people in this thread feel romance is "forced" onto their characters. I'm on my first play through of Origins, I'd say 40 hours in, and I've just now learned that I can "bed" the characters in my party.



And frankly it is a little weird.

[the_one_54321]

For lots of people "romance" entails something more related to a lifelong emotional attachment. This doesn't mean that the player forms a lifelong emotional attachment to the character, but rather that the player is empathizing with the concept of such a connection forming between the characters. It is the empathy with this concept that creates an emotional response in the player and causes the player to view the interaction so favorably. If you don't feel the same empathy with the concept, for whatever reason, the interaction will feel empty to you in comparison to something that carries a more... obvious weight, like saving the world.

[Maera Imrov]

And just because you think that doesn't mean Bioware is going to stop using it. I, personally, think fantasy stories without romances are boring as sin, and am less involved without them. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy games without them, but it is lesser, for me. But I also don't run around trying to tell the company what they should be doing. It doesn't have to 'add' so much as it enriches. These aren't really the same.

But at the end of the day, it really just seems like you want people to agree with you, and I'm not really up for internet debates anymore. I've stated my answer to your questions, and even pointed out a dev's stated POV on said question. I've got nothing further to add.

Good day, ladies and gents.

Modifié par Maera Imrov, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:54 .

[maxernst]

Cavi wrote...

I find it rather odd that some people in this thread feel romance is "forced" onto their characters. I'm on my first play through of Origins, I'd say 40 hours in, and I've just now learned that I can "bed" the characters in my party.

And frankly it is a little weird.

I know one person who managed to play through DA:O a dozen times without ever becoming aware that it was possible to romance your companions.

[Liablecocksman]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

LIs aren't the deal breaker to me that a lot of other people make them out to be. They are a super nice bonus though.

It's nice to actually get to play as a female and have it matter instead of having the gender tacked on as a side thought. It's even nicer than I can be so awesome and kick ass AND get the guy, know? You don't really see that a lot. It's usually the action hero saving the useless mary sue girlfriend who is super hot or cute. I like that my PC can still be a hero and have a competent love interest that doesn't get himself capture or killed.

As far as people over reacting saying they won't buy the game is X character isn't an LI and so forth, I really think it's all talk. Fact of the matter is Dragon Age is like crack and people thinking their whining will actually amount to something should show more about their individual character then the fans as a whole. I was one of those when I finished DAO and wanted the perfect ending with femWarden and Alistair - along with 98% of the rest of the females. If anything it shows that 1)we are passionate about the game and characters 2)Bioware did a damn good job.

I guess it really just boils down to a lot of hype. People have so much expectations of "this and that" because they were so pleased with the last installment, they can't fathom that anything outside of what they specifically ask for. As for me, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I've always been attracted to "tall dark and handsome" but I ended up falling for a spikey haired, blond, goofball. How he would have stacked up against my preferrence, I don't know but I'm not going to sit there and think about "what ifs" and "what I don't have" because I'm pretty sticking happy with what I DID get.

I see.
I appreciate that some, like you, get immensely invested in the romances - and that is wonderful for you. I'm not trying to create the notion that romances should never feature in games, only that I cannot personally understand what they add to the experience (And also my dislike for how they are done).

I agree that much of the hype are from people with no grasp of reality, but my question is then why do they act this way? You say it may all be talk, and I'm inclined to agree, but why are we even talking about it in the first place? It seems to me, when reading some of the more extreme posts (Admitted, I haven't read a lot of "romance option X?"-threads) that Dragon Age is being approached as some sort of dating sim, and the quality of the romance will impact the player more than the quality of the game as a whole. It baffles me.

I, personally, think that more women than men play through the romances. It may very well be prejudice, but I also think that most of the Sims players are women, as well as the fact that a women values the inclusion of these emotional aspects more than men do - or are at least able to accept them of lower quality, as long as they are there more than men are.

I know you cannot give some sort of definitive answer there, but you are a women, what are your thoughts? Why do you think you are so drawn to the romances?

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:58 .

[Thiefy]

Oh, I would have guessed that too - I was just taking note, not anything else, since anything else will be pure speculation. If you will allow me to ask you a question then (as you appear to partake, not to mention create, these kinds of threads):
Who are more interested in the aesthetics?
Take Merrill, for example, as that is the character for whom you have created a thread. Who are the more vulgar fanboys/girls? The men or the women? I don't expect you to have some sort of count or exact percentage, or even know the sex of everyone involved in your thread - but what is your general impression? Are both sides equally fond of such posts?

USUALLY, females are more supportive of characters and LIs, usually. Or at least people who I think are female? I find that more male posters tend to be a bit more negative and flamey when it comes to 1)a females look 2)her sexual history, or lack thereof. I think the most common complaint that ladies make is having to "fix" a male LI over a past dead romance.

Both genders tend to be pervy, though I would say that females tend to carry the torch of obsession a little longer and stronger.
edit- ninja

....have no idea what is wrong with the formating though

Liable****sman wrote...
I see.
I appreciate that some, like
you, get immensely invested in the romances - and that is wonderful for
you. I'm not trying to create the notion that romances should never
feature in games, only that I cannot personally understand what they add
to the experience (And also my dislike for how they are done).

I
agree that much of the hype are from people with no grasp of reality,
but my question is then why do they act this way? You say it may all be
talk, and I'm inclined to agree, but why are we even talking about it in
the first place? It seems to me, when reading some of the more extreme
posts (Admitted, I haven't read a lot of "romance option X?"-threads)
that Dragon Age is being approached as some sort of dating sim, and the
quality of the romance will impact the player more than the quality of
the game as a whole. It baffles me.

I, personally, think that
more women than men play through the romances. It may very well be
prejudice, but I also think that most of the Sims players are women, as
well as the fact that a women values the inclusion of these emotional
aspects more than men do - or are at least able to accept them of lower
quality, as long as they are there more than men are.

I
know you cannot give some sort of definitive answer there, but you are a
women, what are your thoughts? Why do you think you are so drawn to the
romances?

I can't really tell you why other people
act the way they do and can't really make a decent guess. I would say
though as a female gamer, I'm used to not being catered to and not
having expectations met of certain things promised, so it's not really
that big a deal. I make use of what I get and if I don't like it, I get
rid of the game and make a mental note not to buy from the company
again. At the risk of sounding sexist, maybe its the guys complainging
the most because they aren't used to not getting what they want?

As for why the romances are focused on more than the story, well in DAO,
Alistair was my main squeeze and I have to say that romancing him did
play a big impact on the story because of his role in the game - so in
that essence, yes the romance is tightly woven into the story and does
greatly impact the story. I don't think this is quite the case for
Zevran though. Still, this is supposed to be the Warden's story and I
supposed that if the Warden happens to fall in love, the story about how
they won over the LI should be engaging. It's kind of like the movie
300 - great actiony, manly movie but the "romantic" parts with the wife
certainly added more to the story.

I do think romances are
important to women but I don't think that it's the only reason they play
games nor do I think that this would exlcude men from finding the
romances important either. I do think women are more likely to openly
discuss it, and probably much louder than men would. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] Ironically, when I bought DAO, I had no idea you could be female, or what Bioware was as a company. I just liked the box art. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]
Imagine my surprise when I was greeted with a character simulator, and
one I could choose my own gender. It was even more surprising when I was
actually acknowledged as a female. I literally had to stop playing when
I saw the flirt lines and thought to myself "...this isn't what I think
it is, is it?" I actually had to look up things online midway gaming
just so I didn't get the wrong impression, and sure enough, there were
actual LIs for each gender as well as different endings. I was stoked.

Will we accept lower quality romances? That's hard to say since very few
games actually give the option to play female, let alone a female who
has more than one guy she can romance. Personally, of the games that I
know of that do have females who have more than one LI, I've found the
female romances to be written better. I really think a lot of the female
LIs are just recycled stereotypes without much thought put in behinds
them besides being a trophy for the guys. In many situations, the guy
who becomes the female PC's LI will also be the male's PC "sidekick" or
right hand man, one they can have a bromance with. They often have
signifigant plot related scenes are essential to the story. Many female
LIs, I feel, are just there for the novelty of the idea, not because
they are necessary central to the plot. In my eyes, that makes the male
LIs the better companion. I also think females know how to appreciate
more when they are actually acknowledged by a company as something more
than an afterthought.

Why am I drawn to romances? Well it really depends on my mood. Sometimes I just want to kick ass and take names. Sometimes I just want to relax and chill and not have to worry about anything - love, zombie invasions, taxes, etc. Sometimes, I just want to see or read a nice romance. Or a bad one. I do, however, have an
affinity for all things cute. Romances have a high cuteness potential, like sleeping kittens.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 12 janvier 2011 - 07:45 .

[Thiefy]

double post....

thought someone else would post in the 42 minutes it took me to post lol

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 12 janvier 2011 - 07:43 .

[Cavi]

maxernst wrote...

Cavi wrote...

I find it rather odd that some people in this thread feel romance is "forced" onto their characters. I'm on my first play through of Origins, I'd say 40 hours in, and I've just now learned that I can "bed" the characters in my party.

And frankly it is a little weird.

I know one person who managed to play through DA:O a dozen times without ever becoming aware that it was possible to romance your companions.

Yeah and I only know because I read about it here on the forum! lol

[Fangirl17]

AnnaV wrote...

The problem as I see it with all of these romance threads (and the vast majority of them are indeed very creepy) is that people fail to realize that the idea behind a roleplaying game is not that your character should be an exact copy of yourself through which you get to live out all of your romantic/sexual fantasies. This is essentially the attitude behind every complaint that a certain character doesn't look right, isn't gay etc. You don't like "loose women" (a comment often directed at Isabela)? Then make a character who does!
The point of roleplaying is to create a personality for Hawke/the Warden and if that personality happens to match that of an LI, playing the romance it might add to your gaming experience. If you try to play the game with YOU as Hawke/the Warden, you're bound to be disappointed. The game is not made to replace your real life.

There is nothing at all wrong with romances in games. They're not weird or creepy. I don't even think it's crazy for someone to have an innocent "crush" on a game character - certainly no more crazy than having a "crush" on an actor or singer. But demanding a character that you can fantasize about is definitely weird.

Romance can add a lot of immersion and depth to films and books, and the same goes for games. I care about them for that reason. It adds an extra layer to the roleplaying experience if I can play that my character falls in love, and it makes the game world feel even more interactive.
Having said that, I would really prefer that romances were more subtle, or even just implied. I don't care for "sex scenes" in games at all. A fade-to-black or just a kiss would be preferable, in my opinion.

THIS! You get a cookie for your awesome post :3
Thats how I play my characters in RPGs,there're not me, they're a character I make up in my head.I deside what personality they have and who they fall in love with.Its like writting a story but those are the only two things you get to deside on.The rest of the story is provided for you.

And I totaly agree with the second bolded part.

[Maria Caliban]

Snoteye wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Most of these romances do indeed take place over long periods of time, you just don't see it in game.

Is simply knowing this enough for you? It isn't for me. My Blight lasted for years and I still cringed everytime I spoke to Morrigan.

Yes. Do you find any fictional romances realistic? I've never read a book or seen a movie that lasted as long in real time as playing DA:O.

[Schneidend]

I like the partner-in-crime lover dynamic. In Baldur's Gate II my Neutral Evil Berserker and Viconia were like a dream pairing of David Xanatos and The Baroness.



In Mass Effect 1 and 2 I pictured my Shepard and Tali having the same sort of banter as Shepard and Liara do in Shadow Broker.



In Dragon Age, Morrigan is my Grey Warden's cunning adviser mistress, similar to my Bhaalspawn-Viconia deal.



I'm hoping Aveline or Isabela can fill this role in DA2.

[FreezaSama]

Schneidend wrote...

I like the partner-in-crime lover dynamic. In Baldur's Gate II my Neutral Evil Berserker and Viconia were like a dream pairing of David Xanatos and The Baroness.

Did... did you just make a Gargoyles reference? 

[Liablecocksman]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
USUALLY, females are more supportive of characters and LIs, usually. Or at least people who I think are female? I find that more male posters tend to be a bit more negative and flamey when it comes to 1)a females look 2)her sexual history, or lack thereof. I think the most common complaint that ladies make is having to "fix" a male LI over a past dead romance.

Both genders tend to be pervy, though I would say that females tend to carry the torch of obsession a little longer and stronger.

I'm "Negative and flamey" - or have been at least, about Isabellas appearance. Is that what you're talking about? I'm concerned/annoyed that she is being portrayed as overlly aesthetically appealing, while her outfit may be hindering to the job she has to do on the battlefield. Please do not discuss this, as I am only making an example of what could be "flamey"(?)
Is that the kind of negativity you're talking about, or rather something to the like of "I think x looks ugly and that sucks!"?

I can't really tell you why other people
act the way they do and can't really make a decent guess. I would say
though as a female gamer, I'm used to not being catered to and not
having expectations met of certain things promised, so it's not really
that big a deal. I make use of what I get and if I don't like it, I get
rid of the game and make a mental note not to buy from the company
again. At the risk of sounding sexist, maybe its the guys complainging
the most because they aren't used to not getting what they want?

That's an interesting theory, but I'm thinking it's not true - you should note that this thread isn't(to use the thread itself as an example) about me not getting what I want, but instead getting something I do not want.
Using myself as an example, I can say that I could complain about just every game I've ever played, just that I do not do so. I often find myself at a loss understanding choices that developers make, but just accept them (Like you're theorizing women only do more than men) - and it's very out of character for me to outloud complain about a game, because frankly I do not often care enough to do so.

As for why the romances are focused on more than the story, well in DAO,
Alistair was my main squeeze and I have to say that romancing him did
play a big impact on the story because of his role in the game - so in
that essence, yes the romance is tightly woven into the story and does
greatly impact the story. I don't think this is quite the case for
Zevran though. Still, this is supposed to be the Warden's story and I
supposed that if the Warden happens to fall in love, the story about how
they won over the LI should be engaging. It's kind of like the movie
300 - great actiony, manly movie but the "romantic" parts with the wife
certainly added more to the story.

I don't think the romantic parts with spartans wife added to the story, it added depth to his character. If that was the case with ingame romances, I wouldn't be bothered so much either - as it is, though, I find most poorly done, unrealistic and contrived. I don't think they add to plot, other than cheaply(because they aren't well-done) giving the player more of a reason to involve him- or herself in the story.

I do think romances are
important to women but I don't think that it's the only reason they play
games nor do I think that this would exlcude men from finding the
romances important either. I do think women are more likely to openly
discuss it, and probably much louder than men would. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Now I'm absolutely certain that this point carries some weight, although I'm hard-pressed to accept your interpretation of my post as asking whether or not romances where the only reason women play games!

There are most certainly some gender-reasons why women talk about romances here, more than men - but I would argue still, that women care more for, and about, them than men do. In a broad, generalizing sense.

Ironically, when I bought DAO, I had no idea you could be female, or what Bioware was as a company. I just liked the box art. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/joyful.png[/smilie]
Imagine my surprise when I was greeted with a character simulator, and
one I could choose my own gender. It was even more surprising when I was
actually acknowledged as a female. I literally had to stop playing when
I saw the flirt lines and thought to myself "...this isn't what I think
it is, is it?" I actually had to look up things online midway gaming
just so I didn't get the wrong impression, and sure enough, there were
actual LIs for each gender as well as different endings. I was stoked.

Well I'm quite the opposite. I often preorder games, having read a lot about them beforehand. Likewise, I hardly ever buy a game without any prior knowledge of it. The few times that I do, I am often very disappointed.
While I know you're misstyped ("simulator" instead of "creator") I think that is much of what my questions/points are about. Sometimes Dragon Age(And, for instance, Mass Effect) feel like some sort of friendship/dating simulators - and the extraordinare focus on companions and romances add to this. In Mass Effect 2 there was hardly any story at all, there was only companion-recruiting. In Dragon Age: Origins the Warden are going from place to place to do quests, but at the same time a lot of the game is spent recruiting companions, and the game itself revolves a lot around these companions. I have nothing against the companion-focus, and I feel it adds a lot to the roleplaying experience, my problem is just the (for me) large focus on romances.

Will we accept lower quality romances? That's hard to say since very few
games actually give the option to play female, let alone a female who
has more than one guy she can romance. Personally, of the games that I
know of that do have females who have more than one LI, I've found the
female romances to be written better. I really think a lot of the female
LIs are just recycled stereotypes without much thought put in behinds
them besides being a trophy for the guys. In many situations, the guy
who becomes the female PC's LI will also be the male's PC "sidekick" or
right hand man, one they can have a bromance with. They often have
signifigant plot related scenes are essential to the story. Many female
LIs, I feel, are just there for the novelty of the idea, not because
they are necessary central to the plot. In my eyes, that makes the male
LIs the better companion. I also think females know how to appreciate
more when they are actually acknowledged by a company as something more
than an afterthought.

Interesting point, I will have to think on that.

Why am I drawn to romances? Well it really depends on my mood. Sometimes I just want to kick ass and take names. Sometimes I just want to relax and chill and not have to worry about anything - love, zombie invasions, taxes, etc. Sometimes, I just want to see or read a nice romance. Or a bad one. I do, however, have an
affinity for all things cute. Romances have a high cuteness potential, like sleeping kittens.

You see, this is where the sexes are different.
I never, ever feel like watching or reading a nice romance. Much less a bad one. I do not, either, have an affinity for all things cute.
Sure, there are men who like romance-novels and chick-flicks, but I would think they are few and far-between. Likewise, there are surely men who have an affinity for all things cute, but I would also think those were few and far-between.

Basically, I think the whole romance-aspect appeals more to women than to men, and I don't think women feel a poorly-written romance (given that some, like you, like poorly acted/directed/written feel-good chick-flicks) would detract as much from the immersion, realism and value of the game as men would.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 12 janvier 2011 - 09:15 .

[Most Definitely Sane]

Liable****sman wrote...

You see, this is where the sexes are different.
I never, ever feel like watching or reading a nice romance. Much less a bad one. I do not, either, have an affinity for all things cute.
Sure, there are men who like romance-novels and chick-flicks, but I would think they are few and far-between. Likewise, there are surely men who have an affinity for all things cute, but I would also think those were few and far-between.

That paragraph bugs me so much. I know you probably don't mean it, but to me, it seems awfully...wrong.

Basically, I think the whole romance-aspect appeals more to women than to men, and I don't think women feel a poorly-written romance (given that some, like you, like poorly acted/directed/written feel-good chick-flicks) would detract as much from the immersion, realism and value of the game as men would.

 *facepalm*

[Liablecocksman]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...
That paragraph bugs me so much. I know you probably don't mean it, but to me, it seems awfully...wrong.

Why?

 *facepalm*

Again, why?

Please offer some sort of explanation, rather than just one-liners, or whatever you'll call that.
I'm not looking down on women, or saying people who like poorly-written romantic-comedies are stupid. Hell, my sister loves most of such movies, while also agreeing that they are stupid and bad movies - and she is, by all means, smarter than I am.

[Most Definitely Sane]

Liable****sman wrote...

Most Definitely Sane wrote...
That paragraph bugs me so much. I know you probably don't mean it, but to me, it seems awfully...wrong.

Why?

 *facepalm*

Again, why?

Please offer some sort of explanation, rather than just one-liners, or whatever you'll call that.
I'm not looking down on women, or saying people who like poorly-written romantic-comedies are stupid. Hell, my sister loves most of such movies, while also agreeing that they are stupid and bad movies - and she is, by all means, smarter than I am.

You make it seem like you think all women love adorable, girly, romantic cutesy stuff and that we all don't care about how it decreases the value of the game as long as it has a romance, good or bad.

I'm not trying to put one-liners, I'm merely telling you that in my opinion, this is a horrible way of explaining something.

[Malanek]

Love and sex is part of life. You see it in probably about half of known literature. And that counts all the academic text, phonebooks, manuals etc where it is (mostly) excluded. You can't seriously be surprised that the subject comes up in a story based game aiming for imersion. That being said, the importance level does seem to be exagerated on these forums a touch.

Modifié par Malanek999, 12 janvier 2011 - 09:39 .

[Liablecocksman]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...
You make it seem like you think all women love adorable, girly, romantic cutesy stuff

I'm not saying "all", I'm saying a bigger percentage of women like such things, than the percentage of men who do so.

and that we all don't care about how it decreases the value of the game as long as it has a romance, good or bad.

...And that this percentage is the one making up the part who do not care about whether or not a romance is well done or not, as long as it is there.

I'm not trying to put one-liners, I'm merely telling you that in my opinion, this is a horrible way of explaining something.

"That bugs me because it seems wrong" and "*Facepalm*" is your way if telling me something is a horrible way of explaining something?
You still haven't told me why it's a horrible way of explaining something, maybe you will go into detail about this in your next post? Why it's a horrible way of explaining something, that is.

Malanek999 wrote...

Love and sex is part of life. You see it in probably about half of known literature. And that counts all the academic text, phonebooks, manuals etc where it is (mostly) excluded. You can't seriously be surprised that the subject comes up in a story based game aiming for imersion. That being said, the importance level does seem to be exagerated on these forums a touch.

Yes, I know that.
I'm not arguing the validity of the existence of these romances, I am merely arguing the amount of significance placed on them.
In a way, you start your post as if you are disagreeing with me (You see[...]), and that I'm ignorant (You can't be surprised that[...]) but end up saying exactly what I'm saying.

Funny, isn't it?

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 12 janvier 2011 - 09:46 .

[EclipticOlive54]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

LIs aren't the deal breaker to me that a lot of other people make them out to be. They are a super nice bonus though.

I didn't know when I got DA:O that it would have any LIs in the first place, I thought it was some fantasy mideval type RPG, when i did find out it was something extra nice to have. So yeah, I agree with your statement there.

[Most Definitely Sane]

Liable****sman wrote...

Most Definitely Sane wrote...
You make it seem like you think all women love adorable, girly, romantic cutesy stuff

I'm not saying "all", I'm saying a bigger percentage of women like such things, than the percentage of men who do so.

and that we all don't care about how it decreases the value of the game as long as it has a romance, good or bad.

...And that this percentage is the one making up the part who do not care about whether or not a romance is well done or not, as long as it is there.

I'm not trying to put one-liners, I'm merely telling you that in my opinion, this is a horrible way of explaining something.

"That bugs me because it seems wrong" and "*Facepalm*" is your way if telling me something is a horrible way of explaining something?
You still haven't told me why it's a horrible way of explaining something, maybe you will go into detail about this in your next post? Why it's a horrible way of explaining something, that is.

I know that, but what I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, you sound unintentionally sexist.
I admit I probably should've been more straightforward about my problem with your post, but I still think it seems absolutely wrong and that it doesn't say what you're trying to say.

[Malanek]

Liable****sman wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Love and sex is part of life. You see it in probably about half of known literature. And that counts all the academic text, phonebooks, manuals etc where it is (mostly) excluded. You can't seriously be surprised that the subject comes up in a story based game aiming for imersion. That being said, the importance level does seem to be exagerated on these forums a touch.

Yes, I know that.
I'm not arguing the validity of the existence of these romances, I am merely arguing the amount of significance placed on them.
In a way, you start your post as if you are disagreeing with me (You see[...]), and that I'm ignorant (You can't be surprised that[...]) but end up saying exactly what I'm saying.

Funny, isn't it?

You seem to think I disagree and then agree with you...but that is because your own arguments have not really been focused. I haven't read this entire thread but going back to your original post you talk about how you would rather resources be devoted to something else. And you don't undeerstand why people like this aspect of the story. I tried to explain why on both of those counts. Then I finished by saying some people on these forums take it further than I would expect. Thats all, I was never saying they shouldn't enjoy that part of the game, just that the level of fervour surprises me. I'm definately not saying exactly what you were saying.

[Liablecocksman]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...
I know that, but what I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, you sound unintentionally sexist.
I admit I probably should've been more straightforward about my problem with your post, but I still think it seems absolutely wrong and that it doesn't say what you're trying to say.

But that's because it is/was a part of a discussion with another user. One who I had already told what I just told you. I.e she knew what I was "trying to say", as I'd already made it clear previously.

I know it may sound a little sexist, but I'm not trying to hide the fact that I'm generalizing either. It's not unintentional at all, but it's merely to tell a point.

What is your opinion then? Will you agree that more women than men love sappy, unrealistic romantic movies?
To me the answer is so obvious that is seems trivial. I think it is for you, too.

Malanek999 wrote...
You seem to think I disagree and then agree with you...but that is because your own arguments have not really been focused. I haven't read this entire thread but going back to your original post you talk about how you would rather resources be devoted to something else. And you don't undeerstand why people like this aspect of the story. I tried to explain why on both of those counts. Then I finished by saying some people on these forums take it further than I would expect. Thats all, I was never saying they shouldn't enjoy that part of the game, just that the level of fervour surprises me. I'm definately not saying exactly what you were saying.

I see. I may have been a little quick to post before, but I've just had it with a lot of the posts from users coming in here, thinking they will somehow win the internets if they throw some statement around that doesn't make any sense, and then feel good about themselves, being cool and all that.
Excuse me, is what I'm saying, you are indeed not saying what I'm saying.

What I am saying, though, is that I am personally very unimpressed by the romances in the games, and wouldn't mind if they were removed. I'm not saying they should be removed, only that I would rather have the resources devoted to them be devoted to something else, given that I find the quality of the romances severely lacking. I know that may not seem to make much sense, but look at it this way:
I realise that some people like it, and while I do not, I will not attempt an argument to have it removed(given that I know it will not, and that I'm not looking to make the game less fun to others) but instead just make my opinions known so that people reading my topic know where I'm coming from. You could say I'm merely laying the cards on the table from the start, to avoid confusion and further questions regarding my stance on romances in general.

Modifié par Liablecocksman, 12 janvier 2011 - 10:09 .

[Most Definitely Sane]

Liable****sman wrote...

Most Definitely Sane wrote...
I know that, but what I'm trying to say is that in my opinion, you sound unintentionally sexist.
I admit I probably should've been more straightforward about my problem with your post, but I still think it seems absolutely wrong and that it doesn't say what you're trying to say.

But that's because it is/was a part of a discussion with another user. One who I had already told what I just told you. I.e she knew what I was "trying to say", as I'd already made it clear previously.

I know it may sound a little sexist, but I'm not trying to hide the fact that I'm generalizing either. It's not unintentional at all, but it's merely to tell a point.

What is your opinion then? Will you agree that more women than men love sappy, unrealistic romantic movies?
To me the answer is so obvious that is seems trivial. I think it is for you, too.

95% of the females I know would much rather see a movie with explosions, death, chaos, destruction, and gore than...let's say The Notebook, Leap Year, anything with Jennifer Lopez, and While You Were Sleeping.
And every female I know like to see romance movies to make fun of them.
And besides, sappy and unrealistic movies, like Twilight, are hated by everyone, including women.