355 réponses à ce sujet

[TJPags]

Yzzid wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Fair treatment for all retailers???  Really?  The fact that every retailer to carry a product requires a separate agreement - and they do - by definition means they're not treated the same.  And some will get better agreements then others.  Hence, not fair by definition - and rightfully so.

Well, every retailer but steam did have the signature edition. At least in my country. So maybe the agreements were different, i can't know, but from my end, it seems that it's an unfaire treatment yeah. Also, why do you think it's "rightfully so"?

Well, because I'm very much a capitialist.  While I can't say for sure regarding games, since I have no knowledge there at all, I find it hard to believe it works different than any other business.  And in those, retailers and manufactureres make agreements to carry products, and different retailers make different deals, largely based on their bargaining power.  So, yes, "rightfully so" that some retailers may choose not to carry a product, or some manufacturers may not agree to distribute their product through certain retailers.

IMO, of course.

Yzzid wrote...

TJPags wrote...

respect gamer choice - to an extent, that's a fair point.  But a company shouldn't be forced to do something that they don't want - or that doesn't mean a good deal for them - at all times.

Well, what can i say, i'm idealistic, i would prefere game maker to base those kind of decisions NOT on money.

That's fine, and it would be nice.  Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way.

Yzzid wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Disgruntled steam users, as I've said, don't really have (IMO) much of an argument for being disgruntled.  I mean, would you repect my complaint if, say, Walmart didn't carry DA2 (and no, I have no idea if they will or not) and I refused to buy it from someone else?

Well, if you thought Walmart had enought selling point to warrant being your sole source of games, and it was the only one not to carry the signature edition, yeah I would respect your complaint, and i would probably post once or twice to support you

Well, that would be nice of you.    And frankly, you make good points, even if I find some misguided. 

I don't mean to sound like I'm knocking Steam users, or trying to be a Bioware or EA shill, because I'm not trying to do either.  It's just that many of the posts regarding Steam - not all, by any stretch of the imagination, but many -  seem to carry with them, IMO, some sense of entitlement to have gotten their choice of retailer, and that it would have been some kind of blasphemy to somehow make them use another source for the game.

Do I wish they had the chance to use Steam?  Sure.  Do I think they had some "right" to do so?  No.

[Sylvius the Mad]

-BBH-Omega wrote...

DA 2 for the PC for $59.99? And it's a digital download? No disc, no manual, no physical manufacturing costs. Seems like I remember buying DA:O for the reasonable price of $49.99 for the PC (physical format). Sounds like a cash grab to me.

Seriously?  People still think that the manufacturing costs have anything to do with the retail price?

They don't.  They never did.

[Zjarcal]

Youmu wrote...
Not like DA2 isn't #2 on top sellers list on Steam already. 

It's already number 1...

[Yzzid]

TJPags wrote...

I don't mean to sound like I'm knocking Steam users, or trying to be a Bioware or EA shill, because I'm not trying to do either.  It's just that many of the posts regarding Steam - not all, by any stretch of the imagination, but many -  seem to carry with them, IMO, some sense of entitlement to have gotten their choice of retailer, and that it would have been some kind of blasphemy to somehow make them use another source for the game.

Do I wish they had the chance to use Steam?  Sure.  Do I think they had some "right" to do so?  No.

I think we see so many post about steam because they are pretty much the
only one in this situation, while also being the biggest digital market
for PC and also a direct competitor of the EA Store (far more than D2D,
Impulse, etc...).



It's difficult for steam users not to see this as EA trying to limit
steam sales at the cost of the fans. (RISE TO POWER... BY ANY MEAN
NECESSARY, right? [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]) And while it's probably a sound commercial tactic, i would pretty much prefer it not to happen that way [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

Anyway,
yeah, it's just business, it's the way of the world, it's nothing
personnal, etc, but still, i may as well complain about it since I like
steam features.

For the record, i'm a (moderate) steam fanboy,
but i did preorder a physical SE before the deadline. I believe the game
will be worth it. But i probably wouldn't do it for any other than
Bioware. Wallet voting is hard !

[StingingVelvet]

No matter the motivation the lack of a signature edition on Steam is no big deal for one reason: you could have bought it somewhere else. I know many people are fanatical about only buying games through Steam, but that's your choice guys, no one made you do that.



And frankly Steam is getting too powerful, even if this was some conspiracy to get more sales from other outlets that is a good thing in my opinion. Keep the PC market competitive, open and varied.

[Drevin]

Here is a quick FU to bioware/EA from an avid steam user.



I have read the previous comments, and I don't see why we (steam users) should be blasted for wanting a similar level of service on the most popular gaming digital distribution service in the world, that was offered elsewhere. A level of service that was fully supported for DA:O, DA:A, and ME2.



I'm not tied to one distribution model, but you can't argue the simplicity of only ordering from a single source that also handles game launching and a key safe. No one wants to go to a separate distribution center for each distributor. It would be similar to having to go to a separate EA brick and mortar store, or Activision, Bethesda, Ubisoft or whoever, for the full game. (or added content if we must pretend).



However you feel, it really doesn't matter. Bioware/EA purposely screwed a lot of users out of extra content for money, BS politicking, or whatever other reason there might be, and I'm just returning their previously stated FU.

[Youmu]

StingingVelvet wrote...

And frankly Steam is getting too powerful, even if this was some conspiracy to get more sales from other outlets that is a good thing in my opinion. Keep the PC market competitive, open and varied.

Competitive, open and varied.

Give Steam the inferior version of the product. Region-limit copies sold from Direct2Drive, Impulse and Gamersgate. 

Really open and varied there.

[Zjarcal]

StingingVelvet wrote...
And frankly Steam is getting too powerful, even if this was some conspiracy to get more sales from other outlets that is a good thing in my opinion. Keep the PC market competitive, open and varied.

Keep it competitive by offering a better service, not by boycotting the others. Well, if it is indeed a boycott... 

Anyway, what's done is done, no point in going on and on about it.

[TJPags]

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

[StingingVelvet]

Youmu wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...

And frankly Steam is getting too powerful, even if this was some conspiracy to get more sales from other outlets that is a good thing in my opinion. Keep the PC market competitive, open and varied.

Competitive, open and varied.

Give Steam the inferior version of the product. Region-limit copies sold from Direct2Drive, Impulse and Gamersgate. 

Really open and varied there.

I don't know the mechanics of other regions but I am sure there is some store other than Steam that sells PC games in your country, be it another digital seller or a retail shop.

[Yzzid]

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

Well, to quote myself from earlier in this thread :

Yzzid wrote...

Maybe it's really Valve fault, i don't and can't know. But, i trust them more
than I trust EA. It's a bit random, blind, and based on personnal experience sorry ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

[Bann Duncan]

Zjarcal wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...
And frankly Steam is getting too powerful, even if this was some conspiracy to get more sales from other outlets that is a good thing in my opinion. Keep the PC market competitive, open and varied.

Keep it competitive by offering a better service, not by boycotting the others. Well, if it is indeed a boycott... 

Anyway, what's done is done, no point in going on and on about it.

This.

Steam is winning in the open market through the time-tested method of being better than the competition - an idea that goes back to time immemorium and was recorded as early as Ibn Khaldun's work in the Middle Ages.

EA is imposing market controls.

[upsettingshorts]

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

I'm not a disgruntled user but I did consider that. I also considered it may not be anyone's fault.  Granted, the only reason I did think that at all was because similar issues came up on the Paradox Interactive board regarding the latest expansion for Europa Universalis III, Divine Wind, not getting a Steam release at the same time as other sources as well.  So I simply deduced that the problem may not be as simple as Electronic Arts deciding to play keepaway from Valve.

All that being said, no-one here actually knows - except some of the BioWare people - but they aren't likely allowed to talk about it anyway.  So while voicing concern or disapproval is valid of course, letting a company know they've done something that you as a consumer are upset with, presuming to understand the motivations that led to this issue is at best a distraction and at worst ignorance manifesting itself in blind rage.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 janvier 2011 - 10:38 .

[ColdinT]

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

Briefly, but then the Steam boards weren't deleting posts and locking threads for talking about DA2 not being on Steam.

Just saying...

[upsettingshorts]

ColdinT wrote...

Briefly, but then the Steam boards weren't deleting posts and locking threads for talking about DA2 not being on Steam.

Just saying...

There has always been at least one open, live thread on the Dragon Age 2 boards discussing its lack of availability on Steam.  

That is consistent with BioWare's overall modding policy and is not an anamoly.  See rule #1, specifically about multiple threads covering the same topic.

Furthermore, even if that wasn't the case - all that speaks to is the modding policy of Valve versus Bioware and isn't strongly indicative of anything else.  If you had said, "Steam has issued explicit denials of responsibility and instructed users to contact EA/BioWare" then that'd be different.  But I am not aware of either party, EA or Valve - or even Paradox Interactive in my example above - speaking on the record with regards to the reason for these delays.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 12 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[Lord_Saulot]

ColdinT wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

Briefly, but then the Steam boards weren't deleting posts and locking threads for talking about DA2 not being on Steam.

Just saying...

Having watched this forum for a while, I have seen that Bioware always tries to keep issues to one active thread.  It makes the forum readable for those of us interested in other issues. 

[DrAbysmal]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Why would someone pre-order a game from a DD platform? It's not like they're going to run out of copies.

Some people want to have it a digital download platform and still get the pre-order bonuses that are now obligatory for major releases. It's done more to get extra loot than to "ensure you have a copy of the game." Pre-ordering in general seems a little excessive for most games since retailers generally have tons of copies unless it's something like a CoD game which will have a huge rush on it.

[StingingVelvet]

Bann Duncan wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...
And frankly Steam is getting too powerful, even if this was some conspiracy to get more sales from other outlets that is a good thing in my opinion. Keep the PC market competitive, open and varied.

Keep it competitive by offering a better service, not by boycotting the others. Well, if it is indeed a boycott... 

Anyway, what's done is done, no point in going on and on about it.

This.

Steam is winning in the open market through the time-tested method of being better than the competition - an idea that goes back to time immemorium and was recorded as early as Ibn Khaldun's work in the Middle Ages.

EA is imposing market controls.

Oh come now.  It's not control, it's incentive... stick with Steam if you want but we are offering a better deal over here.  It's the essence of competition.

[Drevin]

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

While it is possible that Steam is to blame, (Money dispute?) the fact that the game
released on steam the very day after the deal vaporized suggests
EA/Bioware was at fault.

Edit: Mistyped steam instead of bioware

Modifié par Drevin, 12 janvier 2011 - 10:49 .

[Lord_Saulot]

Drevin wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

While it is possible that Steam is to blame, (Money dispute?) the fact that the game
released on steam the very day after the deal vaporized suggests
EA/Steam was at fault.

Not really.  It is exactly what one would expect if Valve and EA couldn't get a deal together to offer the Signature Edition.  Once the SE is finished and the regular edition, which they have no dispute over, is being sold, Steam sells it.  The observed facts are perfectly and predictably consistent with EA/Bioware and Valve not being able to agree on the Signature Edition.

[Brockololly]

I find it funny DA2 is classified as an "action game" on Steam while Origins is an "RPG."

[Drevin]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Drevin wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

While it is possible that Steam is to blame, (Money dispute?) the fact that the game
released on steam the very day after the deal vaporized suggests
EA/Steam was at fault.

Not really.  It is exactly what one would expect if Valve and EA couldn't get a deal together to offer the Signature Edition.  Once the SE is finished and the regular edition, which they have no dispute over, is being sold, Steam sells it.  The observed facts are perfectly and predictably consistent with EA/Bioware and Valve not being able to agree on the Signature Edition.

This only works assuming that EA was demanding more of a cut for the SE version. As the two versions are the same price.

[TJPags]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Has any disgruntled Steam user ever actually considered that it might have been Steam's fault?

I'm not a disgruntled user but I did consider that. I also considered it may not be anyone's fault.  Granted, the only reason I did think that at all was because similar issues came up on the Paradox Interactive board regarding the latest expansion for Europa Universalis III, Divine Wind, not getting a Steam release at the same time as other sources as well.  So I simply deduced that the problem may not be as simple as Electronic Arts deciding to play keepaway from Valve.

All that being said, no-one here actually knows - except some of the BioWare people - but they aren't likely allowed to talk about it anyway.  So while voicing concern or disapproval is valid of course, letting a company know they've done something that you as a consumer are upset with, presuming to understand the motivations that led to this issue is at best a distraction and at worst ignorance manifesting itself in blind rage.

I'm not sure if that's directed at me for some reason (not sure why it would be) or is a general comment, but I'll respond:

Everyone in this thread - with the exception of Chris Priestly (I think he was the dev who posted in here) - is making assumptions about the reasons behind this apparent "issue".  I don't have a dog in this fight, as I don't order games digitally.  I just find it strange that so many people seem to assume that this is some evil plot by Bioware to somehow screw them, rather than considering that it may somehow been related to something Steam did.

As you note, it has happened with Steam for at least one other game.  It;s certainly happened with other retailers and other products.  It's not a unique circumstance, and it doesn't necessarily point to some kind of evil plot on Bioware's behalf.

It would have been nice if Steam carried the SE, but they didn't.  By all means, people are free to make their displeasure known, at least as far as I'm concerned.  People have been complaining about it for months.  It seems to me, it's time to stop and move on, especially since the SE is no longer an option.  And it's certainly unfair to go on as if this was some evil plot on Bioware's fault with no evidence to support it.

[Blastback]

StingingVelvet wrote...

Bann Duncan wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

StingingVelvet wrote...
And frankly Steam is getting too powerful, even if this was some conspiracy to get more sales from other outlets that is a good thing in my opinion. Keep the PC market competitive, open and varied.

Keep it competitive by offering a better service, not by boycotting the others. Well, if it is indeed a boycott... 

Anyway, what's done is done, no point in going on and on about it.

This.

Steam is winning in the open market through the time-tested method of being better than the competition - an idea that goes back to time immemorium and was recorded as early as Ibn Khaldun's work in the Middle Ages.

EA is imposing market controls.

Oh come now.  It's not control, it's incentive... stick with Steam if you want but we are offering a better deal over here.  It's the essence of competition.

Depends on how it all went down.  If EA activly delayed putting DA2 on Steam in order to keep it from having the Signiture Edition, then that would be more of a market control.

Incintives are about offering more, not keeping things out of the hands of your competitors. 

[StingingVelvet]

Someone on another forum posted this and I thought it was spot-on:

Hardly a conspiracy when everyone can see what is going on. EA dislike Valve's stranglehold on the DD market and only reluctantly joined up eventually. EA are pushing the pre-orders on other services like GamersGate and D2D which is good for competition really. Same thing happened with NFS: Hot Pursuit and Mass Effect 2. EA will release on Steam eventually because it makes financial sense to do so but they don't have to help Valve continue to build their monopoly.