469 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabbatine]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...
Good lord, what happened to Bioware while I wasn't looking...?

They discovered they were a business?

Are you asserting that Bioware did not turn a profit before they started charging $60 for pc games?

[OldMan91]

Are you asserting that Bioware did not turn a profit before they started charging $60 for pc games?

Are you asserting that a business doesn't want to increase profit margins or cover the costs of more expensive development at the very least?C

Modifié par OldMan91, 13 janvier 2011 - 07:06 .

[Naitaka]

OldMan91 wrote...

Are you asserting that Bioware did not turn a profit before they started charging $60 for pc games?

Are you asserting that a business doesn't want to increase profit margins or cover the costs of more expensive development at the very least?C

Are you asserting that raising the price of said product would be the most effective way of increasing the profit margin?

[Sabbatine]

Morroian wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...

All this news has sapped my interest in the game. I don't know that I won't buy it day one, but yesterday Dragon Age 2 was my most anticipate game this year... 

Why not pre-order the SE if thats the case.

As I said in my original post, I buy from the places I want to buy from.  Bioware turned Dragon Age 2 into a gigantic advertisement for Gamestop and I personally think a game developer or publisher telling me that if I don't buy from the store they want me to buy from I'm going to have to pay and extra $7 is over the top.

Bioware did a good job with Dragon Age: Origins.  They did a good job with Mass Effect 2.  They've single handedly traded away all the good will I had towards their company with the handling of Dragon Age 2.  I do not feel I have been treated fairly as a consumer with these unjustifiable surcharges.

It's their right to set their price and it is my right to express my annoyance at these policy changes.

Sabbatine wrote...

Good lord, what happened to Bioware while I wasn't looking...?  I don't care how good the game looks, jumping through these hoops feels like I'm being punished for being a fan.  

Like Alan said they're a business making big budget mass market games. As for jumping through hoops why not simply buy the base game and leave it at that, no need to jump through any hoops then. 

What Alan said is not only irrelevant but flawed.  Bioware was a profitable company before they unjustifiably raised the price for the PC versions of their games.

There was a time when Bioware didn't punish their fans for pre ordering from someplace other than gamestop.  There was a time when Bioware didn't punish their fans for pre ordering two weeks ahead of the release date instead of two months.  There was a time when Bioware didn't punish their fans for playing the game on a computer instead of a console.  I have been a fan of their work from the start amd until now have always felt that they treated their customers better than just about any other company out there.

How did they go from being so good to their fans regardless of where they bought the game to trying to influence every aspect of their potential customers purchasing decision?

[OldMan91]

Naitaka wrote...

OldMan91 wrote...

Are you asserting that Bioware did not turn a profit before they started charging $60 for pc games?

Are you asserting that a business doesn't want to increase profit margins or cover the costs of more expensive development at the very least?C

Are you asserting that raising the price of said product would be the most effective way of increasing the profit margin?

It can be. In this case I think the increase in price reflects the costs of PC game development more than anything.

[Naitaka]

OldMan91 wrote...

It can be. In this case I think the increase in price reflects the costs of PC game development more than anything.

True, but I highly doubt that's the reason for the price increase for the PC version in this particular case. There's the precendent with Black Op and Starcraft 2, and on top of that, there hasn't been a change in price for the console version for DA2, so I think it's safe to assume that EA just want in on the new 60$ PC Game trend.

Modifié par Naitaka, 13 janvier 2011 - 07:20 .

[Sabbatine]

OldMan91 wrote...

Are you asserting that Bioware did not turn a profit before they started charging $60 for pc games?

Are you asserting that a business doesn't want to increase profit margins or cover the costs of more expensive development at the very least?C

I asked a question, I did not make any assertions.  If one sentence posts are too much for you to follow I can try to cut down on the length from here on out if it will help you out.

The problem with the price increase is that it is unjustifiable.  PC players are actually being charged more for the game by the publisher than console players.  In exchange for paying a higher price to the publisher the PC players don't get any value added to the product they are buying.

Console gamers have traditionally paid $10 more to cover licensing and royalty fees put on by microsoft and sony for each game purchased.  There are no royalty fees attached to releasing a game on the pc and on top of that development for the pc is cheaper and the fans are far more forgiving of things like launch bugs.  Once again, it all goes back to the fact that the increase is unjustifiable.

Within their right as a company?  Yes.  Justifiable?  No.  If it was, they'd have justified it by now rather than letting all their fanboys do the work for them trying to earn a spot in the ToR beta.

[Epantiras]

xnoxiousx wrote...

Based of some responses all this dlc coming most people i know say they will wait for goty edition and its like there trying lose day one customers.

Most of my friends will wait for goty edition too. But I want to support Bioware so I've preordered DA2 and will probably buy the DLCs as they are released.

[sevalaricgirl]

Wow, I pre-ordered 2 copies, one for me and one for my 15 yr old son and I am more excited about the DLC goodies that come with than I am the game. I'll get used to the game changes and I get to play a femHawke that I create unlike ME (making slight changes to a default does not thrill me but I loved ME (not so much ME2 but that was due to the lack of romance - if you don't do aliens- than the actual game itself)). I highly doubt that the team screwed up the game and I won't be unhappy as long as they give me some male eye candy. I never got into playing games as male characters unless they're fps and as a woman, I want some eye candy too.  Guys shouldn't get all the eye candy.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 13 janvier 2011 - 08:05 .

[Hathur]

_000Darkstar wrote...

Humans are notoriously impatient beings. They say they're going to wait, but most will break eventually.

^
This.

We don't live long.. we're an impatient species... that vast majority of people prefer instant gratification. Those who will be willing to wait 1+ years for a GOTY edition are the minority of people who are either not hardcore fans of the game or are on an extremely tight budget where $5 makes the difference between affording rent / food for the month or not.

The majority are middle-class earners who aren't going to make themselves wait a year or so to play a game they really want, just because it means they save $15-$20 for all the DLC that they will "have to buy".

Modifié par Hathur, 13 janvier 2011 - 08:08 .

[AlanC9]

Sabbatine wrote...


As I said in my original post, I buy from the places I want to buy from.  Bioware turned Dragon Age 2 into a gigantic advertisement for Gamestop and I personally think a game developer or publisher telling me that if I don't buy from the store they want me to buy from I'm going to have to pay and extra $7 is over the top.

What on Earth are you talking about? You could get the SE from plenty of places besides Gamestop.

What Alan said is not only irrelevant but flawed.  Bioware was a profitable company before they unjustifiably raised the price for the PC versions of their games.

Yep. My fault for actually granting your silly premise rather than challenging it.

There was a time when Bioware didn't punish their fans for pre ordering from someplace other than gamestop.  There was a time when Bioware didn't punish their fans for pre ordering two weeks ahead of the release date instead of two months.  There was a time when Bioware didn't punish their fans for playing the game on a computer instead of a console. 

They didn't do the bolded ones. Yep, the preorder needed to be done a little earlier this time. Why is this a problem? You don't get charged until it ships, and any preorder deposit is refundable at any decent store.

[Morroian]

Sabbatine wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Sabbatine wrote...
Good lord, what happened to Bioware while I wasn't looking...?

They discovered they were a business?

Are you asserting that Bioware did not turn a profit before they started charging $60 for pc games?

Costs have risen, they're making bigger budget games than they were before. PC Game prices have not kept pace with inflation, see the thread on the $60 price rise for a demonstration of this. I don't like the price rise but its perfectly justifiable.

[FurousJoe]

Anyone figured something out about the supposed Dead Space 2 Russian Extended Edition bonus for Dragon Age 2? It's supposed to be some sort of armor?

[MDarwin]

Hathur wrote...

_000Darkstar wrote...

Humans are notoriously impatient beings. They say they're going to wait, but most will break eventually.

^
This.

We don't live long.. we're an impatient species... that vast majority of people prefer instant gratification. Those who will be willing to wait 1+ years for a GOTY edition are the minority of people who are either not hardcore fans of the game or are on an extremely tight budget where $5 makes the difference between affording rent / food for the month or not.

The majority are middle-class earners who aren't going to make themselves wait a year or so to play a game they really want, just because it means they save $15-$20 for all the DLC that they will "have to buy".

Wow! A grand Statement! So I would be one of those poor "Bastards"? Let me check my Bank Account! Puuh, for a moment I thought that I was really poor. But I knew, that you were lying. At least in my case! :innocent:

[Morroian]

Sabbatine wrote...

As I said in my original post, I buy from the places I want to buy from.  Bioware turned Dragon Age 2 into a gigantic advertisement for Gamestop and I personally think a game developer or publisher telling me that if I don't buy from the store they want me to buy from I'm going to have to pay and extra $7 is over the top.

I don't quite understand, the SE was available from plenty of stores, Gamestop didn't have a Gamestop only incentive. DAO had specific store incentives the only 1 DA2 has is for the EA store. I'm in Australia and it was available from a number of places all with a price of far less than what EA were selling it at. Even now it should be able to be pre-ordered for less than the $60. And you don't have to pay extra for the full game the $7 is for extra content. If you don't want to buy it don't buy it the game isn't incomplete without it.

Sabbatine wrote...

Bioware did a good job with Dragon Age: Origins.  They did a good job with Mass Effect 2.  They've single handedly traded away all the good will I had towards their company with the handling of Dragon Age 2.  I do not feel I have been treated fairly as a consumer with these unjustifiable surcharges.

Sorry I don't see much difference apart from the price rise and if you don't want to pay it wait and get it at a reduced price. DA2 is the only game I've pre-ordered or bought new for years Other games I'm content to wait until a Steam or Impulse sale.

Sabbatine wrote...

What Alan said is not only irrelevant but flawed.  Bioware was a profitable company before they unjustifiably raised the price for the PC versions of their games.

EA, the publisher, raised the prices not Bioware. And its my understanding that due to the long development time of DAO that the DA franchise hasn't seen much of a positive return on investment yet.

Sabbatine wrote...

How did they go from being so good to their fans regardless of where they bought the game to trying to influence every aspect of their potential customers purchasing decision?

Bioware don't publish the games, EA do.

Modifié par Morroian, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:40 .

[The Night Haunter]

wow. any1 ever heard of inflation? just because game prices have been static for the past decade doesn't mean they will continue to be so. I think it likely that the price of all (big budget) games will increase to 60$.
Sad as this is to me the consumer, it is both necessary and unstoppable.

Just look at what things used to cost 40 years ago compared to what they cost today. I know that to you here today it might seem unfair that the price was raised apparently arbitrarily, but it must have seemed so to those who lived 40 years ago as well, when the price of a candy bar went from 5 cents to a dollar. While the logical way to reflect inflation might be to raise prices by small amounts continuously (1/2 a dollar a year perhaps, maybe less) Businesses don't have the luxury of doing that, they have to compete. So they keep their prices the same for a decade, until suddenly their profit margin has decreased by 50% and they realize they need to bump up prices. Now its been 10 years and they cant just raise prices slowly to fix it, or they will be in the same place 10 years from then, so they raise prices by a lot (~20%) and their competitors have to do the same because everyone is in the same situation.

This may seem unfair, but looking at it logically - for the past 10 years instead of raising the price of video games every year, they left it at $50, so for the past 10 years we have been underpaying the price of a video game. Today we are probably overpaying by a little bit, but for the next 10 years when the price stays $60 we will be underpaying again, until it is once again raised.

In conclusion while this practice may seem arbitrary and unfair, it ultimately benefits the consumers, and the only real downside of this is the very visual change in price every once in a while.

My 2 cents. be optimistic.

Modifié par ghostmessiah202, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:02 .

[The Night Haunter]

*silly double post*

Modifié par ghostmessiah202, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:01 .

[Schneidend]

It's funny. Even with the cold hard logic of economics on their side, those advocating the $60 price or the DLC trend can never win this debate. Many of these posters have stated empirical facts and pointed out precedents and evidence, but they aren't making any headway.



Self-entitled gamers can't possibly be wrong, after all.

[prazision]

KyleOrdrum wrote...

If you don't want to buy the game, fine don't. But why must we hear about it? Do you think if you complain enough they will go back to the drawing board and for instance add the other races back in?

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard". They added Tali and Garrus as romances in ME2 because fans wanted it. BioWare clearly listens to their fans. "Stop whining and just accept it" is the kind of attitude that's wrong with humanity.

[Naitaka]

Schneidend wrote...

It's funny. Even with the cold hard logic of economics on their side, those advocating the $60 price or the DLC trend can never win this debate. Many of these posters have stated empirical facts and pointed out precedents and evidence, but they aren't making any headway.

Self-entitled gamers can't possibly be wrong, after all.

Maybe because whether a price hike is justifiable or not is largely a subjective idea? And god forbid people have different opinion than you even after reading about your facts and evidences.

[Morroian]

prazision wrote...

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard".

They did? Since when?

[Amyntas]

Schneidend wrote...

It's funny. Even with the cold hard logic of economics on their side, those advocating the $60 price or the DLC trend can never win this debate. Many of these posters have stated empirical facts and pointed out precedents and evidence, but they aren't making any headway.

Self-entitled gamers can't possibly be wrong, after all.

I didn't really see any cold hard science on either side. I doubt even EA knows how exactly this DLC trend will affect their sales and is experimenting. Different companies use different DLC methods, and they all have smart economists working for them after all. The increased costs and heavy-handed dlc methods are certainly not good for EA's and Bioware's long-term image, if comments on gaming sites are any indication.

Modifié par Amyntas, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:43 .

[Bryy_Miller]

prazision wrote...

KyleOrdrum wrote...

If you don't want to buy the game, fine don't. But why must we hear about it? Do you think if you complain enough they will go back to the drawing board and for instance add the other races back in?

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard". They added Tali and Garrus as romances in ME2 because fans wanted it. BioWare clearly listens to their fans. "Stop whining and just accept it" is the kind of attitude that's wrong with humanity.

BioWare listens to their fans who post constructive criticism. Let's please not turn this into a "whining works" thread.

[prazision]

For those talking about "inflation" as the reason for $60 games, allow me to blow your mind:

Super Street Fighter 2, Final Fantasy 3, Chrono Trigger, and several other SNES games cost $70-$80 when they were released.

[Naitaka]

Morroian wrote...

prazision wrote...

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard".

They did? Since when?

They still do

And I can symphasize with them. For someone who is unfamiliar with the idea of character build and party based combat, DAO combat mechanic can be a bit much to absorb considering how detailed the manual is and how comprehensive the tooltips were.