469 réponses à ce sujet

[Merci357]

prazision wrote...

For those talking about "inflation" as the reason for $60 games, allow me to blow your mind:
Super Street Fighter 2, Final Fantasy 3, Chrono Trigger, and several other SNES games cost $70-$80 when they were released.

Weren't those, like all SNES games, on cartridges? You do remember that those had an much higher production cost, and as such, were much more expensive then PC games of that time.

Modifié par Merci357, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:52 .

[prazision]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

prazision wrote...

KyleOrdrum wrote...

If you don't want to buy the game, fine don't. But why must we hear about it? Do you think if you complain enough they will go back to the drawing board and for instance add the other races back in?

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard". They added Tali and Garrus as romances in ME2 because fans wanted it. BioWare clearly listens to their fans. "Stop whining and just accept it" is the kind of attitude that's wrong with humanity.

BioWare listens to their fans who post constructive criticism. Let's please not turn this into a "whining works" thread.

Saying "this game is too hard" is constructive criticism? No, it's just a statement of opinion, like most of this thread. Dismissing all complaints as "whining" is ludicrous. And how was it "constructive criticism" when people clamored for Tali and Garrus to be romanceable? Nobody sat down and wrote a thesis on how it made sense and was a necessary extension of the game, they simply said "we want this" and stuck a banner in their .sig.

[Lord Gremlin]

Nice question. However people on this forum, including myself, are rabid fans who complain and whine and ****** off Gaider and of course we preorder this game and will buy all DLC day one.



I really... I've come to accept DLC as long it's not some country-exclusive or store-exclusive ****. I'm, emm, buying DLC costumes for Fist of North Star for example... And they worth it, IMO. And I liked Origins DLC.

I have no reason not to trust Bioware, the only game from them I don't like is Mass Effect. All other Bioware games I love. Especially Dragon Age.

[prazision]

Merci357 wrote...

prazision wrote...

For those talking about "inflation" as the reason for $60 games, allow me to blow your mind:
Super Street Fighter 2, Final Fantasy 3, Chrono Trigger, and several other SNES games cost $70-$80 when they were released.

Weren't those, like all SNES games, on cartridges? You do remember that those had an much higher production cost, and as such, were much more expensive then PC games of that time.

No, every other game cost $40-$50. Companies charge what the market will bear. It's greed.

[Naitaka]

Merci357 wrote...

prazision wrote...

For those talking about "inflation" as the reason for $60 games, allow me to blow your mind:
Super Street Fighter 2, Final Fantasy 3, Chrono Trigger, and several other SNES games cost $70-$80 when they were released.

Weren't those, like all SNES games, on cartridges? You do remember that those had an much higher production cost, and as such, were much more expensive then PC games of that time.

Quite true, and Nintendo has actually made a statement early last year that the common misconception that "blowing air into the cartridge will clear away the dust and make them more easily readable" is the major cause of malfunction in game catridges.

[Schneidend]

Amyntas wrote...

I didn't really see any cold hard science on either side. I doubt even EA knows how exactly this DLC trend will affect their sales and is experimenting. Different companies use different DLC methods, and they all have smart economists working for them after all. The increased costs and heavy-handed dlc methods are certainly not good for EA's and Bioware's long-term image, if comments on gaming sites are any indication.

The facts that I was referring to weren't hard numbers/science so much as the hundred different reasons to increase the cost of the game and why all these complaints about DLC are purely self-entitled consumer paranoia that "big business is looking to rip them off." These reasons are being stated again and again and being ignored or ineffectively refuted.

Anyway, heavy-handed DLC methods? Like what? Offering you something completely for free as long as you don't buy the game second-hand?

They're trying to protect their profits from used game sales and illegal downloads, and the DLC is an incentive and nothing else.

Naitaka wrote...

Quite true, and Nintendo has actually
made a statement early last year that the common misconception that
"blowing air into the cartridge will clear away the dust and make them
more easily readable" is the major cause of malfunction in game
catridges.

Well, Nintendo has clearly never
actually used their own products, then. I can't tell you how many times a
game simply did not work intitially and then when blown into functioned absolutely fine.

Modifié par Schneidend, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:58 .

[Bryy_Miller]

prazision wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

prazision wrote...

KyleOrdrum wrote...

If you don't want to buy the game, fine don't. But why must we hear about it? Do you think if you complain enough they will go back to the drawing board and for instance add the other races back in?

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard". They added Tali and Garrus as romances in ME2 because fans wanted it. BioWare clearly listens to their fans. "Stop whining and just accept it" is the kind of attitude that's wrong with humanity.

BioWare listens to their fans who post constructive criticism. Let's please not turn this into a "whining works" thread.

Saying "this game is too hard" is constructive criticism?

No, but laying out why that is your opinion IS.

No, it's just a statement of opinion, like most of this thread. Dismissing all complaints as "whining" is ludicrous.

When did I ever say all criticism was whining? 

And how was it "constructive criticism" when people clamored for Tali and Garrus to be romanceable? Nobody sat down and wrote a thesis on how it made sense and was a necessary extension of the game, they simply said "we want this" and stuck a banner in their .sig.

You're making quite a bit of generalizations about what I meant. I refuse to believe that you don't actually know what I'm talking about. 

prazision wrote...
It's greed.

Yes, a lot of it is greed. Does not mean that companies pollute just to pollute.

[Morroian]

Naitaka wrote...

Morroian wrote...

prazision wrote...

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard".

They did? Since when?

They still do

And I can symphasize with them. For someone who is unfamiliar with the idea of character build and party based combat, DAO combat mechanic can be a bit much to absorb considering how detailed the manual is and how comprehensive the tooltips were.

I was talking about them making DA2 easier. I haven't seen any post form the devs saying that.

[Naitaka]

Morroian wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

Morroian wrote...

prazision wrote...

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard".

They did? Since when?

They still do

And I can symphasize with them. For someone who is unfamiliar with the idea of character build and party based combat, DAO combat mechanic can be a bit much to absorb considering how detailed the manual is and how comprehensive the tooltips were.

I was talking about them making DA2 easier. I haven't seen any post form the devs saying that.

Well, yah but difficulty is largely subjective I guess. Some people might consider tweaks such as, no FF except Nightmare mode, less customization on follower gears (less chance of screwing up such as putting wynn in heavy plate armor) , more "reactive" combat that ties button press to attack, less spell/ability to choose from, etc, to be making the game easier, while others just see it as a shift toward a more action oriented combat mechanic.

[Fishy]

I think we all have our own reason for not purchasing it.So why i keep coming back to this forum?I think i'm more addicted to this forum than dragon age.

For me it's was just an accumulation of thing and i represent my minority!
Can't believe i edited .

Modifié par Suprez30, 13 janvier 2011 - 11:26 .

[Fishy]

Naitaka wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

Morroian wrote...

prazision wrote...

Do you really think companies don't listen to consumer feedback? They made DA2 easier because people complained Origins was "too hard".

They did? Since when?

They still do

And I can symphasize with them. For someone who is unfamiliar with the idea of character build and party based combat, DAO combat mechanic can be a bit much to absorb considering how detailed the manual is and how comprehensive the tooltips were.

I was talking about them making DA2 easier. I haven't seen any post form the devs saying that.

Well, yah but difficulty is largely subjective I guess. Some people might consider tweaks such as, no FF except Nightmare mode, less customization on follower gears (less chance of screwing up such as putting wynn in heavy plate armor) , more "reactive" combat that ties button press to attack, less spell/ability to choose from, etc, to be making the game easier, while others just see it as a shift toward a more action oriented combat mechanic.

Indeed

[prazision]

Except the Sebastien DLC is not being used to combat used sales. Right now there is literally no reason to buy a new copy of the game rather than wait a week and buy a used copy. I am ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOR of companies including incentives for new copies, and it makes sense because it makes EA more money. Right now, they're not doing that. So I'll be buying my copy used, if I buy it at all (BioWare has made bad games before; see Neverwinter Nights 1, Jade Empire).

[Lord_Saulot]

prazision wrote...

Except the Sebastien DLC is not being used to combat used sales. Right now there is literally no reason to buy a new copy of the game rather than wait a week and buy a used copy. I am ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOR of companies including incentives for new copies, and it makes sense because it makes EA more money. Right now, they're not doing that. So I'll be buying my copy used, if I buy it at all (BioWare has made bad games before; see Neverwinter Nights 1, Jade Empire).

The Black Emporium DLC is being given out free with all new copies of the game, like the Stone Prisoner DLC was given with DAO.  So the Black Emporium is being used to combat secondhand sales.

[Merci357]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

prazision wrote...

Except the Sebastien DLC is not being used to combat used sales. Right now there is literally no reason to buy a new copy of the game rather than wait a week and buy a used copy. I am ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOR of companies including incentives for new copies, and it makes sense because it makes EA more money. Right now, they're not doing that. So I'll be buying my copy used, if I buy it at all (BioWare has made bad games before; see Neverwinter Nights 1, Jade Empire).

The Black Emporium DLC is being given out free with all new copies of the game, like the Stone Prisoner DLC was given with DAO.  So the Black Emporium is being used to combat secondhand sales.

I guess his point is, contrary to Shale or Zaeed (initially, the CN had more to offer later on), the Black Emporium isn't attractive enough to count as incentive for him to buy new, since I'd value a companion (with quests) more then mere items.

[Morroian]

prazision wrote...

Except the Sebastien DLC is not being used to combat used sales.

Getting people to pre-order still combats used sales.

prazision wrote...
Right now there is literally no reason to buy a new copy of the game rather than wait a week and buy a used copy. I am ABSOLUTELY IN FAVOR of companies including incentives for new copies, and it makes sense because it makes EA more money. Right now, they're not doing that. So I'll be buying my copy used, if I buy it at all (BioWare has made bad games before; see Neverwinter Nights 1, Jade Empire).

There is an incentive, the question is is it attractive enough, for you obviously not. And it isn't just the Black Emporium, its the sword and shield, the mabari and the mirror.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Some will wait for a GotY or whatever edition, but most people will go ahead and buy it.  Plus, with exception of a few items, all the DLC will still be available to those that don't get the Signature Edition, it will just cost extra.

Actually, the DLC in a way helps them with sales because for example, if you buy Mass Effect 2 brand new, EA/Bioware gets a cut of the money. You get the Cerberus Network content free.  But, you buy it used, EA/Bioware gets no money.  However, you have to BUY Cerberus Network separately for like 1200 points or something (unless you get lucky and the previous owner never bothered to register it).  That way, they still get money even from used sales.

As for waiting a week and buying it used, that's possible I guess, but personally if I am going to buy a game used I'm not paying anywhere near retail for it.  Like Xbox games are 59.99 when they come out, then used they are maybe 49.99 (at least in my experience) so is $10 really worth the savings? 

Games that are now $20 retail because they are so old I won't pay more than $10 for a used copy, and even then, in the case of DAO and Mass Effect 2, if you ever want the DLC you end up paying the same price in the long run cause you have to pay extra for the DLC you would have gotten for free from a new copy.

Modifié par AbsolutGrndZer0, 13 janvier 2011 - 11:50 .

[TheMadCat]

Publishers don't make money from sales (Maybe a small royalty check once they hit certain milestones), they make money from the copies sold to retailers and licenses sold to digital distributors.

[Morroian]

TheMadCat wrote...

Publishers don't make money from sales (Maybe a small royalty check once they hit certain milestones), they make money from the copies sold to retailers and licenses sold to digital distributors.

Which I guess is why they made a pre-order incentive it increases the initial numbers shipped to retailers.

[TheMadCat]

Morroian wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Publishers don't make money from sales (Maybe a small royalty check once they hit certain milestones), they make money from the copies sold to retailers and licenses sold to digital distributors.

Which I guess is why they made a pre-order incentive it increases the initial numbers shipped to retailers.

Yep, pre-orders are a big factor in determining how many copies a retailer is going pen down on the inital run. More pre-orders out there, more they move, more revenue they bring in.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

TheMadCat wrote...

Morroian wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Publishers don't make money from sales (Maybe a small royalty check once they hit certain milestones), they make money from the copies sold to retailers and licenses sold to digital distributors.

Which I guess is why they made a pre-order incentive it increases the initial numbers shipped to retailers.

Yep, pre-orders are a big factor in determining how many copies a retailer is going pen down on the inital run. More pre-orders out there, more they move, more revenue they bring in.

yep exactly thats why the whole buying used to teach ea is a stupid flawed logic in a sense you are giving money to the retailer since the retailer bought the copy for you to buy

[Darkchipper07]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
You're making quite a bit of generalizations about what I meant. I refuse to believe that you don't actually know what I'm talking about. 

The thing is that laying down one sentence responses is well................ there's a lot of places to fill in the blank. Don't you remember a point less discussion that was started cause of a statement between me and you, that was a misunderstanding in the end. 

The thing is he has laid it out why he's not buying it and so have many people but the second they say that someone like stop whining.

In the left 4 dead forums right before left 4 dead 2 came out a lot of people made valid points as to why the new game would kill the old game and people were "stop whining," not saying that there were no valid points as to why it wouldn' kill itt and they could co-exist. The thing is the "whiners" were right.

[prazision]

Well then, I would say that if BioWare want me to preorder the game, they should put enough information out there to give me a good idea of the quality/quantity of the story, the companions, and the gameplay.

As it stands today, I know more about Skyrim and Arkham City - games that are nearly a year away - than I do about DA2.

If preorders are their main source of revenue (which I honestly doubt, as they have said that they intend to get literally millions of new fans to buy this game, and new fans are not the ones who preorder) then why are they so coy as to not even answer simple questions as "who are all the companions"?

They are certainly not going to get preorders from new fans with this little information available.

[Naitaka]

Darkchipper07 wrote...

The thing is he has laid it out why he's not buying it and so have many people but the second they say that someone like stop whining.

If you want an example of the danger of the "Don't buy it if you don't like it" or "Go make your own game if you think it sucks" or "just skip two meals and you can pay for it" kind of mentality, then look no futher.

I give you, HELLGATE LONDON!

[JigPig]

prazision wrote...
(BioWare has made bad games before; see Neverwinter Nights 1, Jade Empire).

[Schneidend]

prazision wrote...

Well then, I would say that if BioWare
want me to preorder the game, they should put enough information out
there to give me a good idea of the quality/quantity of the story, the
companions, and the gameplay.
As it stands today, I know more about Skyrim and Arkham City - games that are nearly a year away - than I do about DA2.

How
is knowing that you can dual-wield, there are dragons, and that there
are fewer skills and a "profession" system more than you know about
Dragon Age, which is largely unchanged from DA:O except for the dialogue
wheel and companions having static appearances?

JigPig wrote...

prazision wrote...
(BioWare has made bad games before; see Neverwinter Nights 1, Jade Empire).

I agree with Bruce Willis.