469 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Iglo]

I like DLC...I just wish it wouldnt cost as much as it does.

[LoneFullmetal]

I have no problem with the free stuff, and I had no regrets buying all the DLC for Origins one by one (other then Warden's Keep & Shale, which I got for free).

[ClayMeow]

AlanC9 wrote...

Clarify something, Clay. If there was no DLC at all, would you still wait for a Steam sale to buy DA2? And why did you buy the DAO CE?

I bought the DAO CE because I was highly interested in the game and it came with extra content.

If there was no day-one DLC, then no, I wouldn't wait for a Steam Sale, I would have pre-ordered it. And as I've stated before, if the SE was still available (retail), I'd pre-order that.

Dave of Canada wrote...

ClayMeow wrote...

I pre-ordered the DAO CE almost immediately after it was released.

I
will NOT be pre-ordering DA2 because I missed the SE deadline and now
there is absolutely no point. Day 1 DLC is complete BS. It was tolerable
with DAO because EVERY person who bought a new copy received it for
free, but that's not the case with DA2. EA effed up and Bioware let
them.

So yes, they will be losing my sale because of the Day 1
DLC, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one. At this point, I'll
most likely hold off until a Steam sale comes around and knocks the
price 50% and includes all DLC to date.

You were fine with not getting Warden's Keep with Dragon Age: Origins, what's wrong with DA2's day one DLC?

How did EA/Bioware screw up if you didn't preorder before now?

When the DAO CE was first announced (and when I pre-ordered it), Warden's Keep wasn't even known. After it was announced, yes, I was pissed, and I was even more pissed that the Digital Deluxe edition got it for free, while the Retail CE did not. That being said, I did wind up purchasing it a few days after release, because it was a pretty essential part of the game, which made it even more frustrating that Bioware would keep it out of the core game.

But the original Day 1 DLC, Stone Prisoner, was available to everyone who purchased NEW, and I was fine with that. That's what should have been done for DA2.

How did EA/Bioware screw up? Several ways.

1. SE only available for a short time. Even if one could argue that it's reasonable for a pre-order bonus, the SE offer didn't last the full pre-order period, which just points to greed.
2. Steam edition appears the day AFTER the SE offer expires. Steam is the go-to source for games for many people. Coincidence that it appeared on Steam after the offer expired? Hardly.
3. Day 1 DLC. Regardless of all the above, Day 1 DLC is an awful, greedy business decision. Years ago, companies would never even dream up such a thing - if a portion of the game was complete, it'd be in the game, not excluded for later release, or even worse, a separate release at the same time.
4. Lack of loyalty to fanbase. All of the above aside, if Bioware truly cared about its fans, it could easily offer a deal to those who have DAO registered on the site. In other words, okay, so the SE expired for regular purchasing, but how about if you register a copy of a vanilla DA2 and you have DAO registered, then you receive the SE for free? It's called giving back to fans, and I thought Bioware was a company that cared. Apparently money changes things.

Modifié par ClayMeow, 14 janvier 2011 - 05:43 .

[AlastairsQuEeN]

I agree with you there, ClayMeow. I couldnt have said it better myself. I thought they cared about their fanbase??

[Youmu]

ClayMeow wrote...

But the original Day 1 DLC, Stone Prisoner, was available to everyone who purchased NEW, and I was fine with that. That's what should have been done for DA2

Black Emporium is the 'Shale' of DA2. Exiled Prince is the Warden's Keep of DA2.

Not that I don't agree with what you said.

Modifié par Youmu, 14 janvier 2011 - 05:54 .

[AlanC9]

prazision wrote...

Are you forgetting the Ostagar walkthrough they released to preview Origins?

I'm not forgetting it .... this is the first time I've ever heard of it. (Of course, I may have just forgotten it so completely that even seeing it mentioned doesn't remind me; there's no way to disprove that.)

How long before DAO's release did that come out?

[AlanC9]

ClayMeow wrote...

If there was no day-one DLC, then no, I wouldn't wait for a Steam Sale, I would have pre-ordered it. And as I've stated before, if the SE was still available (retail), I'd pre-order that.

Well, at least the thread isn't based on complete fantasy.

I'm still not clear why you'd preorder without the Day 1 DLC existing but you'll delay buying the game if that DLC exists. How does the value you'd get from the game change from a DLC that you wouldn't get in either scenario?

Or is it a pure emotional reaction rather than a value calculation....

3. Day 1 DLC. Regardless of all the above, Day 1 DLC is an awful, greedy business decision. Years ago, companies would never even dream up such a thing - if a portion of the game was complete, it'd be in the game, not excluded for later release, or even worse, a separate release at the same time.

Right. And if there was no DLC there wouldn't be any Sebastian. At all. You think in a world without the DLC revenue stream the DLc content would still magically come into being?

4. Lack of loyalty to fanbase. All of the above aside, if Bioware truly cared about its fans, it could easily offer a deal to those who have DAO registered on the site. In other words, okay, so the SE expired for regular purchasing, but how about if you register a copy of a vanilla DA2 and you have DAO registered, then you receive the SE for free? It's called giving back to fans, and I thought Bioware was a company that cared. Apparently money changes things.

This is silly. Caring about your fans means you have to give them stuff for free?

[Dave of Canada]

ClayMeow wrote...

1. SE only available for a short time. Even if one could argue that it's reasonable for a pre-order bonus, the SE offer didn't last the full pre-order period, which just points to greed.

My friend couldn't preorder Dragon Age: Origins Collector's Edition around a month or two before release because it's quantities were limited. I don't see this as any different, had you preordered on time you would've got it.

2. Steam edition appears the day AFTER the SE offer expires. Steam is the go-to source for games for many people. Coincidence that it appeared on Steam after the offer expired? Hardly.

... and? You had many other options.

3. Day 1 DLC. Regardless of all the above, Day 1 DLC is an awful, greedy business decision. Years ago, companies would never even dream up such a thing - if a portion of the game was complete, it'd be in the game, not excluded for later release, or even worse, a separate release at the same time.

Years ago, there wouldn't be DLC because they wouldn't be able to make it and distribute it. They aren't cutting content, they are making it extra - if it wasn't available for DLC, it wouldn't be available or made at all.

4. Lack of loyalty to fanbase. All of the above aside, if Bioware truly cared about its fans, it could easily offer a deal to those who have DAO registered on the site. In other words, okay, so the SE expired for regular purchasing, but how about if you register a copy of a vanilla DA2 and you have DAO registered, then you receive the SE for free? It's called giving back to fans, and I thought Bioware was a company that cared. Apparently money changes things.

Again, pointing fingers and saying greed because you didn't preorder. I'm sure you'd be perfectly fine with this had you preordered in the first place, though since you didn't preorder, the company is evil.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:28 .

[FurousJoe]

I've set my budget for this game for $300 so I figure I can cover everything with that.



I got OCD when it comes to "get everything" when it's a game I like.



I know the game sucked donkey balls, but I bought Medal of Honor 3 times and bought Dr. Pepper caps on ebay just to get all things in the game.

[Youmu]

AlanC9 wrote...

Right. And if there was no DLC there wouldn't be any Sebastian. At all. You think in a world without the DLC revenue stream the DLc content would still magically come into being?

The point is day 1 DLC. The game isn't even out yet, and they are already trying to sell DLC. Why can't Sebastian, you know, be in the base game, instead of a separate DLC. It obviously is done by the release day.

Game releases, then start churning out all the fancypants DLC, actually adding to the game, instead of "heh this is ready now but it's not included in the game so you better buy it". Some of the X360 DLC (other games, obviously) is already on the disk, and only thing you are buying is a itty bitty file that enables accessing it, and that is just plain wrong.

Modifié par Youmu, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:32 .

[Dave of Canada]

Youmu wrote...

The point is day 1 DLC. The game isn't even out yet, and they are already trying to sell DLC. Why can't Sebastian, you know, be in the base game, instead of a separate DLC. It obviously is done by the release day.

Different timetable, different funding, different workload. They didn't simply point at Sebastian and say "Hey, cut this guy out." - they worked on him to be DLC from the very start, used funding from the DLC fund and stuff. Just because it's done doesn't mean it needs to come in the full game, else they wouldn't have made it in the first place.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:35 .

[Youmu]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Different timetable, different funding, different workload. They didn't simply point at Sebastian and say "Hey, cut this guy out." - they worked on him to be DLC from the very start, used funding from the DLC fund and stuff. Just because it's done doesn't mean it needs to come in the full game, else they wouldn't have made it in the first place.

End result still is something that could've been on the disk for free. Obviously adding content without DLC-fying it first and then sold to the customers would be insanity, you couldn't charge $7 for subpar content! Think about the poor corporations!!!

[AlanC9]

Dave's obviously right on the substance.

I wonder if this isn't just an issue with people not thinking IP is real. Nobody says that an auto maker should just throw the full options package onto every car they build, or that Dell should put the best video card available into every PC they sell.

[TheMadCat]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Different timetable, different funding, different workload. They didn't simply point at Sebastian and say "Hey, cut this guy out." - they worked on him to be DLC from the very start, used funding from the DLC fund and stuff. Just because it's done doesn't mean it needs to come in the full game, else they wouldn't have made it in the first place.

That's doesn't make any sense, why can't it be implemented for all users in the same capacity it's being implemented for users who pre-ordered 3 months in advance? It's still meant to seamlessly fit into the game afterall and it's obviously going to be done well before launch. 

[AlanC9]

Youmu wrote...

End result still is something that could've been on the disk for free.

Sure, it could have been on the disc for free. They could also sell DA2 for $5, or give it away.

Your point? You're not seriously saying that Bio has an obligation to stuff as much content as it's possible for them to make onto the DA2 disc, are you?

[AlanC9]

TheMadCat wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...
Different timetable, different funding, different workload. They didn't simply point at Sebastian and say "Hey, cut this guy out." - they worked on him to be DLC from the very start, used funding from the DLC fund and stuff. Just because it's done doesn't mean it needs to come in the full game, else they wouldn't have made it in the first place.

That's doesn't make any sense, why can't it be implemented for all users in the same capacity it's being implemented for users who pre-ordered 3 months in advance? It's still meant to seamlessly fit into the game afterall and it's obviously going to be done well before launch. 

It could be, sure. They could make Sebastian free the same way the Black Emporium is free.

But then why make Sebastian at all?

[Youmu]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure, it could have been on the disc for free. They could also sell DA2 for $5, or give it away.

Your point? You're not seriously saying that Bio has an obligation to stuff as much content as it's possible for them to make onto the DA2 disc, are you?

Are you saying they don't? If you are going to charge $60 for a game, I sure would hope it actually has content in it, instead of just a small starting village and then $200 worth of DLC to actually get the full game. [hyperbole, obviously]

Obviously they have to release sooner or later, but yes, they should cram in as much [quality] content as it is possible before the release date.

Modifié par Youmu, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:50 .

[TheMadCat]

AlanC9 wrote...

It could be, sure. They could make Sebastian free the same way the Black Emporium is free.

But then why make Sebastian at all?

To give players another companion and add more depth and story to the game?

[Dave of Canada]

Youmu wrote...

Obviously they have to release sooner or later, but yes, they should cram in as much [quality] content as it is possible before the release date.

And what you're going to recieve is what you would've recieved had they not made DLC.

[David Gaider]

Youmu wrote...
The point is day 1 DLC. The game isn't even out yet, and they are already trying to sell DLC.

And? That's when most people will want it. The only reason to object, that I can imagine, is that you think you should be entitled to it.

I've heard plenty of talk about "I paid for the whole game, I should get the whole game" but I don't really get it. If you consider DLC not to be extra -- it is, but let's ignore that for a second -- then the plain fact is we're not selling the "whole" game for that price. The base game is a complete product, and it's up to you to decide if you want the extras.

Why can't Sebastian, you know, be in the base game, instead of a separate DLC. It obviously is done by the release day.

It wasn't planned as part of the base game. It was always planned as extra DLC, primarily because it doesn't need the long certification process that the base game does and thus the timetable can be quite different.

Even if that weren't the case, is there something wrong with planning an extra module or extra content of some kind as DLC? We make a base game and plan at the same time for the extras we wish to sell? Should we not be allowed to sell things? It's not my business policy to decide, but I find this kind of reactionary "well it was never done in the past so it's clearly evil now!" to be a bit bizarre. We didn't have online methods of delivery with wide market penetration in the past, either.

Game releases, then start churning out all the fancypants DLC, actually adding to the game, instead of "heh this is ready now but it's not included in the game so you better buy it". Some of the X360 DLC (other games, obviously) is already on the disk, and only thing you are buying is a itty bitty file that enables accessing it, and that is just plain wrong.

Well, fair enough. Like I said before, it's not my decision to make. I just find all the talk a little suspect-- like someone throwing up a fuss at the car dealership because they had to pay extra for the air conditioning and the leather seats when they already paid for the car. Sure, the company is trying to make more money-- and unless you want to go with a "capitalists are evil bastards" approach, I'm not sure how you can fault that as "wrong"... particularly when the cost of making a video game has been steadily going up even as prices have roughly stayed the same or even gone down. Seems like a recipe for a market desperately in need of a change, and probably not one everyone involved is going to feel comfortable with.

All of which is, of course, just my opinion. As are all yours. Naturally you're free to decide when and how you're going to buy your games, and thus use whatever criteria you wish. If there's enough people who happen to agree with you, then a company would be forced to change how it does business no matter what. If not enough people agree with you, getting upset at them and calling them idiots isn't likely to convince them of anything. They have the right to vote with their dollar, too.


With that, however, I'm going to close down this topic. Discussions on the evils of DLC in general can go in Off Topic. If you have a comment to make on Dragon Age 2 DLC it can be made on the DLC thread specifically-- or a thread that deals with DA2 directly and not simply as an excuse to discuss DLC. Thanks.

Modifié par David Gaider, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:12 .