469 réponses à ce sujet

[Deadmac]

Meltemph wrote...

 I hope they are learning from their successes.

I'd rather them learn from their failures personally.  

Agreed. I have no problem admitting that I was a sucker this time around.

'Fool me once, shame on you.'
'Fool me twice, shame on me.'

I will wait out this whole hype roller-coaster. Once BioWare/EA release an Ultimate Edition with all the DLC, (at a low price), I will have no problem dishing out the cash for 'the whole game'. Until they do release such an edition, I will sit watching people buy into the whole DLC scam.

Even though I may have to wait a few years, the most important thing is that I will play it at some point. I am no longer a sucker. If I knew the Ultimate Edition was going to be released, I would have held out until it arrived. Save money, time, and effort.

Modifié par Deadmac, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:38 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Merci357 wrote...

Deadmac wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

rsuffix wrote...

I just can't believe people actively defend this practice.

The practice of getting DLC for free since we would have pre-ordered anyway even if there was none?

After the preorder has finished its course, the price will drop to reflect the lack of a DLC promotional pieces. Or, they will just sell everyone on another free DLC element. Its a BIG scam.

It's absolute unheard of that almost everything drops in price. Buy a new blue ray movie, buy it two years later. Buy a PS3 at release, buy it now. Buy a jeans when it's not on sale. Buy a cocktail when happy hour is over. And games are no different. Its a BIG scam.

Bluray films at release were ****ing expensive, now they are DVD priced because production costs have gone down

ECONOMICS

Take business classes

ETC

MONEY

[Onyx Jaguar]

Besides we all knwo that we are funding various wars in Africa just by buying the physical copies of these games!

[Soul Cool]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Besides we all knwo that we are funding various wars in Africa just by buying the physical copies of these games!

Don't listen to his lies! Continue to fund the glorious captains of industry that are our lords and masters! They're the only thing that protect us from Bad Things like Communism, Socialism, and the Middle East! 

[Beerfish]

I hear Oliver Stone is being hired to make a film about DLC and computer games.

[marshalleck]

rsuffix wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

rsuffix wrote...

I just can't believe people actively defend this practice.

The practice of getting DLC for free since we would have pre-ordered anyway even if there was none?

The game is being released in two months. They are giving away this content free for people that buy the game two months in advanced. From then one, people will have to pay for it.

This content is ready to be received by people as soon as the game launches. People will have to pay more for what seems like quite a significant chunk of gameplay and character interaction. This is ready before the game is released.

Now, I can see people agreeing with you, that, yes, it's nice for them to offer it for free. 

They shouldn't be doing this **** though. If they can offer it for free to people that pre-order ahead of time, they can make it free to everyone. The game isn't even out yet. This isn't on-going active development of a game already released that could be ditched, this is one that isn't even released!

Yet, people defend the practice. People defend publishers having content ready to be sold the moment a game is released. I don't understand why. It can obviously be included with the game, but that's not happening. And people are happy. And people are fighting for that to happen. It blows my mind.

Some of it is bonus content from the collector's signature edition. Nothing new there, devs have been tossing bonuses into the CE of their games for years now. Some of the DLC will come with all new retail versions of the game. As far as like the pre-order swrod and shield go, sure they're "content" but I honestly doubt they'll be very useful beyond the first few levels of the game. It's just a sword and shield, it's not like the game will be broken without them.

 The only people who are really being extorted are those who try to save a buck by buying the game used at Gamestop. And that place is a rip-off anyways--I went there the other day to get a copy of Demon's Souls for PS3, and I noticed they were selling pre-owned games at full retail price. If you want to get worked up over a scam, there's one for you. They'll buy a used game from you for like $5 credit then turn around and sell it for ten times that much.

Modifié par marshalleck, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:43 .

[Merci357]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

Deadmac wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

rsuffix wrote...

I just can't believe people actively defend this practice.

The practice of getting DLC for free since we would have pre-ordered anyway even if there was none?

After the preorder has finished its course, the price will drop to reflect the lack of a DLC promotional pieces. Or, they will just sell everyone on another free DLC element. Its a BIG scam.

It's absolute unheard of that almost everything drops in price. Buy a new blue ray movie, buy it two years later. Buy a PS3 at release, buy it now. Buy a jeans when it's not on sale. Buy a cocktail when happy hour is over. And games are no different. Its a BIG scam.

Bluray films at release were ****ing expensive, now they are DVD priced because production costs have gone down

ECONOMICS

Take business classes

ETC

MONEY

Uhm, Onyx? It was just a sarcastic remark, nothing else, maybe I should have added a smily...
Just wanted to point out that you almost always, when talking about luxury or entertainment products, you either pay the full price at release, or wait and get it cheaper. That's common sense, isn't it? Time is, in a sense, also a commodity.

[rsuffix]

marshalleck wrote...
 Some of it is bonus content from the collector's signature edition. Nothing new there, devs have been tossing bonuses into the CE of their games for years now. Some of the DLC will come with all new retail versions of the game. As far as like the pre-order swrod and shield go, sure they're "content" but I honestly doubt they'll be very useful beyond the first few levels of the game. It's just a sword and shield, it's not like the game will be broken without them.

 The only people who are really being extorted are those who try to save a buck by buying the game used at Gamestop. And that place is a rip-off anyways--I went there the other day to get a copy of Demon's Souls for PS3, and I noticed they were selling pre-owned games at full retail price. If you want to get worked up over a scam, there's one for you. They'll buy a used game from you for like $5 credit then turn around and sell it for ten times that much.

The sword and shield and other various items like that I generally have no problem with as pre-order bonuses. I can accept those as being some incentive for people to buy the game earlier. Sure, it's not great, but whatever.

My problem in this situation is that there is actual game play content being held back. There is a character and his missions being removed from the game and put on sale as day one DLC. Not only that, but it was then offered for a limited time to people that pre-order the game way before launch day.

I'm not interested in saying if this is a scam or not. I'm simply saying that I don't agree with the practice. I frankly find it very disheartening and offputting. I don't understand why people are seemingly in favour of this practice either.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I DONT HAVE TIME FOR COMMON SENSE WHEN I NEED TO PROTECT MY PLASTIC SHIPMENTS IN TRANSIT FROM ZAIRE!

[Wicked 702]

Time value of money.



God I hate those calculations...

[Mad Method]

Soul Cool,

Metacritic also rates FFXIII at 83%, and it is garbage. The best things that can be said for it are that it is pretty and playable. Now, I have no qualms whatsoever stating that I have high standards for the games I play and stories I read. I certainly do. But, with that said, to me DAO fell short in storytelling, gameplay, and consumer model. When I play a story-oriented game, I expect depth in the narrative and DAO just didn't deliver. Now The Witcher isn't perfect either, but it is to my liking.

Modifié par Mad Method, 13 janvier 2011 - 03:49 .

[AlanC9]

TheMadCat wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Maybe we mean different things by baiting. When I talk about baiting something I'm thinking of fishing -- the point of bait is to get the fish to do something that he really wouldn't want to do if he knew what was going on, rather than to get the fish to do something that he might just not bother doing if I can't talk him into it.

So it would be baiting if Bio actually thinks that DA2 is a bad game. But I don't believe that they think DA2 is a bad game.

Edit: I guess that means that I equate baiting with deception.

Yeah, that's what  I view as deception. Doing things to get people to buy something you know is bad or broken, like car dealers and a lemon. Baiting is putting things out there to encourage people to buy something they might not otherwise buy at this point in time. Like I said there's nothing really wrong with it, but it's not like it's motive free and only a benefit to the community.

I thought about this some more and I realized that "baiting" is often used to talk about getting someone to decide something emotionally rather than rationally. So I was wrong about it necessarily being deception, but it is trying to get someone to do something that he wouldn't want to do if he was thinking clearly.

[prazision]

This is mind-boggling. I don't understand how anyone can defend the decision to only have Sebastian be free for people who commit to a game 2 months before a single review comes out.

If I buy the game on release day, or a week after release, because the reviews are positive, BioWareEA are still getting my full $60. But because I chose to be wise and not buy into their hype that I definitely will enjoy the game, I miss an entire companion and questline.

The music industry is a business too. But I've never bought an album and then been charged money later for bonus tracks.

[marshalleck]

rsuffix wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
 Some of it is bonus content from the collector's signature edition. Nothing new there, devs have been tossing bonuses into the CE of their games for years now. Some of the DLC will come with all new retail versions of the game. As far as like the pre-order swrod and shield go, sure they're "content" but I honestly doubt they'll be very useful beyond the first few levels of the game. It's just a sword and shield, it's not like the game will be broken without them.

 The only people who are really being extorted are those who try to save a buck by buying the game used at Gamestop. And that place is a rip-off anyways--I went there the other day to get a copy of Demon's Souls for PS3, and I noticed they were selling pre-owned games at full retail price. If you want to get worked up over a scam, there's one for you. They'll buy a used game from you for like $5 credit then turn around and sell it for ten times that much.

The sword and shield and other various items like that I generally have no problem with as pre-order bonuses. I can accept those as being some incentive for people to buy the game earlier. Sure, it's not great, but whatever.

My problem in this situation is that there is actual game play content being held back. There is a character and his missions being removed from the game and put on sale as day one DLC. Not only that, but it was then offered for a limited time to people that pre-order the game way before launch day.

I'm not interested in saying if this is a scam or not. I'm simply saying that I don't agree with the practice. I frankly find it very disheartening and offputting. I don't understand why people are seemingly in favour of this practice either.

Prince Vael or whatever? He's the bonus for the signature edition. All pre-orders until January 11 were upgraded for free to signature edition. It's called an incentive to buy, and it's used to drive sales. Pretty common practice for decades now in retail. "Buy now, and get (whatever) free! limited time offer!" It's not a scam (I know you didn't say it was) and there's nothing shady or questionable about it. 

Shameless capitalism, sure. But that's the 21st century for you.

Modifié par marshalleck, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:55 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

prazision wrote...

The music industry is a business too. But I've never bought an album and then been charged money later for bonus tracks.

I have.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

prazision wrote...

This is mind-boggling. I don't understand how anyone can defend the decision to only have Sebastian be free for people who commit to a game 2 months before a single review comes out.
If I buy the game on release day, or a week after release, because the reviews are positive, BioWareEA are still getting my full $60. But because I chose to be wise and not buy into their hype that I definitely will enjoy the game, I miss an entire companion and questline.
The music industry is a business too. But I've never bought an album and then been charged money later for bonus tracks.

Huzzah, I agree with you sir. It is a tad bit rediculous isn't it?

[Trogloditius]

 With so many positive replies, you'd think people actually like buying DLC right after spending $60 on the game!  If you have the spare cash and don't mind, good for ya.

I have to register my discontent with this in the vain hope things might change in the future.  EA's strategy of splitting up the game from day one is just terrible for the game, the players and their image.  Like other posters, they lost my sale a long time ago and if I buy the game, it's going to be one year later when they repackage it.  And it's cheaper.

Skyrim, on the other hand, I will be buying new because Bethesda have a good record of spending time on games and not trying to grab every penny from my wallet (Horse armour forgiven).

If you guys don't become more discerning consumers, EA will just continue with this policy.

[Morroian]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

prazision wrote...

The music industry is a business too. But I've never bought an album and then been charged money later for bonus tracks.

I have.

Me as well its been a common practice for years.

[rsuffix]

marshalleck wrote...

Prince Vael or whatever? He's the bonus for the signature edition. All pre-orders until January 11 were upgraded for free to signature edition. It's called an incentive to buy, and it's used to drive sales. Pretty common practice for decades now in retail. "Buy now, and get (whatever) free! limited time offer!" It's not a scam (I know you didn't say it was) and there's nothing shady or questionable about it. 

Shameless capitalism, sure. But that's the 21st century for you.

And this is what I don't understand.

People should not accept 'shameless capitalism'. It shouldn't be something people are happy to put up with and defend. 

[marshalleck]

Trogloditius wrote...

 With so many positive replies, you'd think people actually like buying DLC right after spending $60 on the game!  If you have the spare cash and don't mind, good for ya.

I have to register my discontent with this in the vain hope things might change in the future.  EA's strategy of splitting up the game from day one is just terrible for the game, the players and their image.  Like other posters, they lost my sale a long time ago and if I buy the game, it's going to be one year later when they repackage it.  And it's cheaper.

Skyrim, on the other hand, I will be buying new because Bethesda have a good record of spending time on games and not trying to grab every penny from my wallet (Horse armour forgiven).

If you guys don't become more discerning consumers, EA will just continue with this policy.

Speaking of discerning consumers--I got all this content free because I took advantage of the offer to have my pre-order upgraded to signature edition for no extra cost. Don't whine or try to imply that I'm an undiscerning consumer because you missed out. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 13 janvier 2011 - 03:00 .

[marshalleck]

rsuffix wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Prince Vael or whatever? He's the bonus for the signature edition. All pre-orders until January 11 were upgraded for free to signature edition. It's called an incentive to buy, and it's used to drive sales. Pretty common practice for decades now in retail. "Buy now, and get (whatever) free! limited time offer!" It's not a scam (I know you didn't say it was) and there's nothing shady or questionable about it. 

Shameless capitalism, sure. But that's the 21st century for you.

And this is what I don't understand.

People should not accept 'shameless capitalism'. It shouldn't be something people are happy to put up with and defend. 

Some people live in the real world, not an imaginary Marxist utopia. 

[Morroian]

Trogloditius wrote...

 With so many positive replies, you'd think people actually like buying DLC right after spending $60 on the game!  If you have the spare cash and don't mind, good for ya.

I pre-ordered and got the SE inc. DLC for $50 why would I complain about that?

[Hekate]

Y'know, I can't see how people think all this DLC is to trick gamers into buying it when it'll actually suck. I mean look at Mass Effect 2, if you had bought that new you got cerberus network and like 6 other things for free when it would normally be lots of money. I mean sure that stuff wasn't available right away but when it did come out it was free. And all in all ME2 was a truly amazing game. So if they weren't tricking us into buying a ****y game then what makes you assume they are now?

[rsuffix]

marshalleck wrote...
 Some people live in the real world, not an imaginary Marxist utopia. 

I think rationality has now gone from the discussion, I think I'll leave with it. 

I'm sad Bioware has gone down this route.

[Morroian]

rsuffix wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Prince Vael or whatever? He's the bonus for the signature edition. All pre-orders until January 11 were upgraded for free to signature edition. It's called an incentive to buy, and it's used to drive sales. Pretty common practice for decades now in retail. "Buy now, and get (whatever) free! limited time offer!" It's not a scam (I know you didn't say it was) and there's nothing shady or questionable about it. 

Shameless capitalism, sure. But that's the 21st century for you.

And this is what I don't understand.

People should not accept 'shameless capitalism'. It shouldn't be something people are happy to put up with and defend. 

It aint gonna change in the near future unless the whole of western society crumbles. Most retail industries have similar incentives to buy why would the gaming industry, which is now huge, be any different. Their games are big budget, they have to make that budget back and I want Bioware to do that so they can continue to make these games.