20 réponses à ce sujet

[Grishnaak27]

2h DPS warrior.  Champion/Berserker.  Not a lot of good 2h warrior info out there.  It must be the least played class.  This is like my 5th play through, but I haven't played in like 9 months.

Plan on going for Sunder Arms, Sunder Armor, and 2H Sweep first, and those will be my bread and butter abilities.  Then I was going to go for 4/4 Champion for Rally and Superiority.  Before finishing off with 4/4 Berserker.

Looking for some advice on "filler" talents in between.

In what order would you take these abilities?

Stunning Blows - chance for stun
or
Death Blow - 3 sec. -5 armor debuff on crits
or
4/4 Berserker

[Yrkoon]

Grishnaak27 wrote...

2h DPS warrior.  Champion/Berserker.  Not a lot of good 2h warrior info out there.  It must be the least played class.  This is like my 5th play through, but I haven't played in like 9 months.

Plan on going for Sunder Arms, Sunder Armor, and 2H Sweep first, and those will be my bread and butter abilities.  Then I was going to go for 4/4 Champion for Rally and Superiority.  Before finishing off with 4/4 Berserker.

Looking for some advice on "filler" talents in between.

In what order would you take these abilities?

Stunning Blows - chance for stun
or
Death Blow - 3 sec. -5 armor debuff on crits
or
4/4 Berserker

There's dozens upon dozens of threads out there about the 2-h warrior class.  I myself have  made about 500 posts on the topic.

You've got the gist of it.    Spam your sunders.    Use your 2-h sweep  and war cry for crowds. 


The only thing I'd probably advise against is the Berserker tree.  It offers 2 things, both of which you can do without:  2) the Berserker rage; 2) Final blow.    #1  approaches worthless.  A few  (very few) extra points of damage per hit.  Its more useful on a dual-wielder since you'd be getting that damage from both your weapons.  But you're not using a dual-wielder.  You're using a warrior class that hits much less often.    and #2  (Final Blow) is  a really bad idea.    Using up ALL your stamina on one single hit that doesn't do a whole lot more damage  ( if any) than a single  Sunder Arms, which you can  spam every 10 seconds and only costs 25 stamina to activate.   Explore the possibilities of the Templar tree instead.


Other points:   By  death blow you mean Punisher?    Yes, Punisher is wothless since it's not cumulitive with itself and   lasts just 3 seconds  (barely enough to take advantage of a single time)  On the other hand, Stunning blows is quite worth it, since it costs nothing, its always in effect, and  always adds the chance to stun your opponents every time you score a critical.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:28 .

[HolyAvenger]

Indomitable? Immunity to knockback and stunning? That is the critical talent for me on the 2H tree (much like Shield Wall on the S&S tree). The lack of something similar on the dual wield tree is really annoying.

[Grishnaak27]

Yeah, I got Indomitable.  Didn't mention that.

Bummer that Berserker sucks for 2h.  Kinda dumb that the model NPC for it is a 2h warrior.  Ha.

[Elhanan]

Grishnaak27 wrote...

Yeah, I got Indomitable.  Didn't mention that.

Bummer that Berserker sucks for 2h.  Kinda dumb that the model NPC for it is a 2h warrior.  Ha.

I enjoy the Stamina Regen boost, but it is better on other builds.

[Naitaka]

Question are you playing with mods like combat tweaks and rule fixpacks? Quite frankly almost an entire line of 2h-skills is rendered useless unless you have gotten the mod to fix them. Otherwise, I usually go for the skills listed below in order of priority, indominatable, pummel strike, the two sunder skills, stunning blow, 2-h sweep, rest of the skills.

Modifié par Naitaka, 13 janvier 2011 - 09:07 .

[Yrkoon]

Naitaka wrote...

Question are you playing with mods like combat tweaks and rule fixpacks? Quite frankly almost an entire line of 2h-skills is rendered useless unless you have gotten the mod to fix them 

Not sure what you mean by "rendered useless", or which line exactly you're talking about.    the Unmodded 2-h warrior talents of all 3  branches are absolutely superb in so many ways, it would take hours to outline the synergy amongst them, let alone their usefulness by themselves.  (yes, Synergy.   Has anyone else here noticed how well any two  2h talents mix together to produce something greater than the sum of their parts?  For example:

1)  Mighty Blow + Stunning Blows:  Mighty blow is an instant Critical.  But with Stunning blows, it becomes an instant critical  which stuns your opponent, which means you're free now to chain another talent on top of this.  And you have tons of options here, ranging from going for the stun lock  (critical strike, which will stun again), or 2 more quick hits  (a sunder)

2) Pommel strike + Sunder arms + stunning blows:  This is  your  mage killer.  Pommel strike never misses, and mages never resist it.  So, instantly,  you've just knocked a mage on his ass, unable to get any spells off, and in the meantime you've just activated a double hit attack, and if you're lucky, one of those hits is a critical, and thus the knocked-down mage is now stunned... at this point, if the mage still lives, see #1 for your next move

3) Sunder Arms + Sunder Armor + Stunning Blows:  This is for people who worship the over-rated concept of DPS in Dragon Age.  4  extremely fast hits  from a  2-handed weapon being wielded by a strength based warrior - with an added bonus of 4 consecutive chances to   score a critical and thus a stun.   If you built your 2-hander correctly,    Many, many enemies in Dragon Age  will not survive  this particularly nasty combo. And the few that do will probably be stunned at the end of it, thus leaving themselves completely vunerable to  #1, which, btw, will become even more effective now, since one of your sunders just debuffed their armor rating by 15.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 janvier 2011 - 12:51 .

[Naitaka]

Yrkoon wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

Question are you playing with mods like combat tweaks and rule fixpacks? Quite frankly almost an entire line of 2h-skills is rendered useless unless you have gotten the mod to fix them 

Not sure what you mean by "rendered useless", or which line exactly you're talking about.    the Unmodded 2-h warrior talents of all 3  branches are absolutely superb in so many ways, it would take hours to outline the synergy amongst them, let alone their usefulness by themselves.  (yes, Synergy.   Has anyone else here noticed how well any two  2h talents mix together to produce something greater than the sum of their parts?  For example:

1)  Mighty Blow + Stunning Blows:  Mighty blow is an instant Critical.  But with Stunning blows, it becomes an instant critical  which stuns your opponent, which means you're free now to chain another talent on top of this.  And you have tons of options here, ranging from going for the stun lock  (critical strike, which will stun again), or 2 more quick hits  (a sunder)

2) Pommel strike + Sunder arms + stunning blows:  This is  your  mage killer.  Pommel strike never misses, and mages never resist it.  So, instantly,  you've just knocked a mage on his ass, unable to get any spells off, and in the meantime you've just activated a double hit attack, and if you're lucky, one of those hits is a critical, and thus the knocked-down mage is now stunned... at this point, if the mage still lives, see #1 for your next move

3) Sunder Arms + Sunder Armor + Stunning Blows:  This is for people who worship the over-rated concept of DPS in Dragon Age.  4  extremely fast hits  from a  2-handed weapon being wielded by a strength based warrior - with an added bonus of 4 consecutive chances to   score a critical and thus a stun.   If you built your 2-hander correctly,    Many, many enemies in Dragon Age  will not survive  this particularly nasty combo. And the few that do will probably be stunned at the end of it, thus leaving themselves completely vunerable to  #1, which, btw, will become even more effective now, since one of your sunders just debuffed their armor rating by 15.

Destroyer does not remove armor on hit, only on critical hit. (Not to mention its effect only trigger during auto attack)
Shattering Blow is completely USELESS, it doesn't do increase damage to construct, period.
Mighty Blow does not slow movement speed as the description suggests.
Critical Strike instant kill function is redundent and even mighty blow(Which is auto-crit anyway) is better with a shorter animation when your target has only 20% health left.

All these problems are addressed by combat tweak and rule fixpack, which i highly recommand provided that you're playing the PC version.

Modifié par Naitaka, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:06 .

[Yrkoon]

Naitaka wrote...
Shattering Blow is completely USELESS, it doesn't do increase damage to construct, period.

This is false.  And has been false since patch 1.03, which  came out, what...8 months ago?  or more?

Naitaka wrote...

Mighty Blow does not slow movement speed as the description suggests.

Critical Strike instant kill function is redundent and even mighty blow(Which is auto-crit anyway) is better with a shorter animation when your target has only 20% health left.

And this  renders  them  useless per your claim?

Naitaka wrote...
All these problems are addressed by combat tweak and rule fixpack, which i highly recommand provided that you're playing the PC version.

Seriously?  I'll pass.  My 2-hander has no need to slow opponents  with his mighty blow, when he can stun them with it   instead. Nor does he need his critical strike to do anything more than.... score a critical.... and stun.  And Destroyer is garbage even when fixed.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:29 .

[Naitaka]

Yrkoon wrote...

This is false.  And has been false since patch 1.03, which  came out, what...8 months ago?  or more?

Really? Because i distinctly remember it still being broken back in september which is when I last took a look at the script itself and nowhere in 1.04 does the patch note mention that this bug has been fixed. Can you give me a link to a patch note of 1.03 where it mentioned this since the one I found didn't have anything on it either. Thanks.

Yrkoon wrote...

And this  renders  them  useless per your claim?

I said it renders the particular effect of critical strike redundant, not that the skill itself is useless. Reading comprehension please.

Yrkoon wrote...
Seriously?  I'll pass.  My 2-hander has no need to slow opponents  with his mighty blow, when he can stun them with it   instead. Nor does he need his critical strike to do anything more than.... score a critical.... and stun.  And Destroyer is garbage even when fixed.

And your reason for a skill not working is that it's useless anyway? I fail to see how that contradict with my statement in the first place. I said, almost an entire line in 2 handed sword talent is useless. As in having no effect, which is true, unless shattering blows is fixed as you have suggested, in which case, feel free to get it before two handed sweep but I know I won't.

EDIT: In conclusion, I stand by my suggestion that combat tweaks and rule fixpack are great addition to the game for anyone who wants to play TW warrior and if you don't have access to those mods, I stand by my suggestion of  the order of skills to get because those ARE actually the ones that work, and work well.

Modifié par Naitaka, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:44 .

[Yrkoon]

Naitaka wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

This is false.  And has been false since patch 1.03, which  came out, what...8 months ago?  or more?

Really? Because i distinctly remember it still being broken back in september which is when I last took a look at the script itself and nowhere in 1.04 does the patch note mention that this bug has been fixed. Can you give me a link to a patch note of 1.03 where it mentioned this since the one I found didn't have anything on it either. Thanks.

  Right.  As just about any gamer here knows, there are *tons* of fixes in DA: O that went completely undocumented by the Patch notes.     This little fact is painfully obvious for anyone who plays a warrior class.    Death Blow suddenly giving you back huge chunks of stamina comes to mind.  It didn't before patch 1.02.  Now it does.  But there's NO mention of such a fix in ANY patch.

As for  reading the shattering blows "script", what exactly from that script leads you to believe that it doesn't work?

The fact is, it works now.  Take a strength based two hander with your 2h weapon of choice, then go to the deep roads and observe the damage you're doing.  Then enter the Anvil of the void map and start hitting the golems there.  You'll instantly notice that you're doing ALOT more damage per hit to them then you were doing to all the other critters  down there.  to the tune of ~20-30 points more

Naitaka wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

And this  renders  them  useless per your claim?

I said it renders the particular effect of critical strike redundant, not that the skill itself is useless. Reading comprehension please.

Reading comprehension?   You said THIS:

Naitaka wrote...
 Quite frankly almost an entire line of 2h-skills is rendered useless unless you have gotten the mod to fix them 

^this is what started the discussion.  I asked you to clarify that claim.  If you're now  going to branch off on a tangent and include  talents that you believe to be simply  Redundant instead of useless, then fine.   But that's not what we were discussing.  Was it.

Naitaka wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...
Seriously?  I'll pass.  My 2-hander has no need to slow opponents  with his mighty blow, when he can stun them with it   instead. Nor does he need his critical strike to do anything more than.... score a critical.... and stun.  And Destroyer is garbage even when fixed.

And your reason for a skill not working is that it's useless anyway? I fail to see how that contradict with my statement in the first place.

Yes?  Or more specifically, that the modded version doesn't render it any more useful.

   But lets not change the subject.   You claimed that these skills were useless  unless they're modded/fixed.  This is clearly false.   a working instant  critical hit powered by a working +10 attack bonus and a working  chance to stun is not, at all useless,.  And if you want to get  really technical, not even the  tool-tip description is wrong.  I've slowed an opponent's movement speed with mighty blow.  haven't you?  Slowed it down to a complete Halt, actually.

Naitaka wrote...

EDIT: In conclusion, I stand by my suggestion that combat tweaks and rule fixpack are great addition

It's a great addition.  But that wasn't your suggestion.  Your suggestion was   to get the mods because otherwise,  almost all of the 2-h line is useless.  We  know backpedaling when we see it

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 janvier 2011 - 03:47 .

[Last Darkness]

zing

[Naitaka]

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...

As for  reading the shattering blows "script", what exactly from that script leads you to believe that it doesn't work?

[/quote]

So you are saying that I should just take your word for instead of looking into combat_damage_h

[quote]
if (HasAbility(oAttacker, ABILITY_TALENT_SHATTERING_BLOWS))    {  
      if (IsObjectValid(oDefender))        {            if 
(GetCreatureAppearanceFlag(oDefender, APR_RULES_FLAG_CONSTRUCT))        
    {                if ( IsUsingMeleeWeapon(oAttacker, oWeapon) 
&&  IsMeleeWeapon2Handed(oWeapon))                {              
      fBase += (GetAttributeModifier(oAttacker, 
PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_STRENGTH) * 0.5f);                }            }      
  }    }

[/quote]

The function faltered at GetCreatureAppearanceFlag() so I went to check the 2da table in the 2da_base file, if you look up apperance you'll find something that starts with APR_ and if you search for AprRulesFlags evantually you'll find this developer comment "georg: 0x1 Count as a construct (for damage)". Since the variable APR_RULES_FLAG_CONSTRUCT is defined as 0x2. Shatter Blows doesn't work, which is STILL the case right now as I'm STARING AT IT IN THE TOOLSET. And thank you for making me reinstall DA Toolset which I swore iI was never going to touch again.


[quote]Yrkoon wrote...

[quote]Naitaka wrote...

Mighty Blow does not slow movement speed as the description suggests.

Critical
Strike instant kill function is redundent and even mighty blow(Which is
auto-crit anyway) is better with a shorter animation when your target
has only 20% health left.

[/quote]
And this  renders  them  useless per your claim?

[/quote]

That was your exact quote and you CLEARLY was refering to those two talents, nowhere DID I say that they were useless. I Said "Almost an entire line is rendered useless" without mod. A line within a talent tree consist of 4 skills, with 2 skills being completely bugged and another 2 only working partially. I would say that consistute "almost an entire line" If that is the point which you disagree with, then say so, otherwise stop putting words into my mouth.

[quote] Yrkoon wrote...
  
      But lets not change the subject.   You claimed that these skills were useless unless they're modded/fixed.  This is clearly false.   a working instant  critical hit powered by a working +10 attack bonus and a working  chance to stun is not, at all useless,.  And if you want to get  really technical, not even the  tool-tip description is wrong.  I've slowed an opponent's movement speed with mighty blow.  haven't you?  Slowed it down to a complete Halt, actually.
[/quote]

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. Please read the thread over again. You asked me what I meant by rendered useless, which I was refering to the fact that 2 skills are completely broken while the other 2 are either bugged or have redudant effect. If you want to play game with taking lines out of context.

[quote] Yrkoon wrote...

the Unmodded 2-h warrior talents of all 3  branches are absolutely superb in so many ways

[/quote]

this was your exact quote. That 2-h warrior talents of ALL 3 branches are superb in so many ways, then you go right on to say "And Destroyer is garbage even when fixed." Now who's making contradictory statement anyway?

[quote] Yrkoon wrote...

Your suggestion was  to get the mods because otherwise,  almost all of the 2-h line is useless.  We  know backpedaling when we see it

[/quote]

Seriously, how many time are you going to try to distort other people's post? 

[quote]Naitaka wrote...

Question are you playing with mods like combat tweaks and rule fixpacks?
Quite frankly almost an entire line of 2h-skills is rendered useless
unless you have gotten the mod to fix them. Otherwise, I usually go for
the skills listed below in order of priority, indominatable, pummel
strike, the two sunder skills, stunning blow, 2-h sweep, rest of the
skills.

[/quote]

That was my exact quote, as you can see, I CLEARLY stated that if I didn't have the fix, I would have gotten the skills in the following order as i describe. Does the transition "otherwise" have another meaning in some obscure version of the English language that you speak? because in my book, it meant if what was previously mentioned were not possible, I would OTHERWISE do the following instead.

Clearly we can see you're just insecure in your own assessment that you find hostility when there were none to the point you can't even read my post properly. I think we should end our argument here as this is clearing getting off topic and doesn't help the op with his build in any way. Good day to you sir, I won't be visiting this thread anymore.

Modifié par Naitaka, 13 janvier 2011 - 04:17 .

[Zy-El]

One thing that no one has mentioned here is the use of Poisons. Not only do they inflict extra damage but the more concentrated forms may also stun an opponent and reduce their movement speed. Poisons are relatively cheap and the darkspawn are dropping them quite regularly. Before the start of a fight, click on several poisons one after another - their effects do stack.

[Elhanan]

2H is the most enjoyable weapon spec as a warrior. Now back to your Reality programming....

[Yrkoon]

[quote]Naitaka wrote...

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...

As for  reading the shattering blows "script", what exactly from that script leads you to believe that it doesn't work?

[/quote]

So you are saying that I should just take your word for instead of looking into combat_damage_h

[quote]
if (HasAbility(oAttacker, ABILITY_TALENT_SHATTERING_BLOWS))    {  
     if (IsObjectValid(oDefender))        {            if 
(GetCreatureAppearanceFlag(oDefender, APR_RULES_FLAG_CONSTRUCT))        
   {                if ( IsUsingMeleeWeapon(oAttacker, oWeapon) 
&&  IsMeleeWeapon2Handed(oWeapon))                {              
     fBase += (GetAttributeModifier(oAttacker, 
PROPERTY_ATTRIBUTE_STRENGTH) * 0.5f);                }            }      
 }    }

[/quote]

The function faltered at GetCreatureAppearanceFlag() so I went to check the 2da table in the 2da_base file, if you look up apperance you'll find something that starts with APR_ and if you search for AprRulesFlags evantually you'll find this developer comment "georg: 0x1 Count as a construct (for damage)". Since the variable APR_RULES_FLAG_CONSTRUCT is defined as 0x2. Shatter Blows doesn't work, which is STILL the case right now as I'm STARING AT IT IN THE TOOLSET. And thank you for making me reinstall DA Toolset which I swore iI was never going to touch again.[/quote]
Are you misinterpretting the developer comment?  It's not ruling out 0x2 as a construct.  it's just including 0x1 in the flag definition.  Which isn't unusual, given the fact that 'Construct' is a classification of a few different creatures in  Dragon age.

Granted, I'm no expert on the tool set languange, but I *have* actually played the game after patch 1.03.  and I can see sudden, and consistant instances of increased damage when they occur. 


[quote]Naitaka wrote...

[quote]Yrkoon wrote...

[quote]Naitaka wrote...

Mighty Blow does not slow movement speed as the description suggests.

Critical
Strike instant kill function is redundent and even mighty blow(Which is
auto-crit anyway) is better with a shorter animation when your target
has only 20% health left.

[/quote]
And this  renders  them  useless per your claim?

[/quote]

That was your exact quote and you CLEARLY was refering to those two talents, nowhere DID I say that they were useless.[/quote]
So why did you mention them?  Was anyone here claiming that  there were no redundant skills in the 2-h tree?


[quote]Naitaka wrote...
[quote]   
      But lets not change the subject.   You claimed that these skills were useless unless they're modded/fixed.  This is clearly false.   a working instant  critical hit powered by a working +10 attack bonus and a working  chance to stun is not, at all useless,.  And if you want to get  really technical, not even the  tool-tip description is wrong.  I've slowed an opponent's movement speed with mighty blow.  haven't you?  Slowed it down to a complete Halt, actually.
[/quote]

Again, you're putting words in my mouth. Please read the thread over again. You asked me what I meant by rendered useless, which I was refering to the fact that 2 skills are completely broken
[/quote]
  You mean  0  talents broken.   2 talents bugged (but still working), and  1 talent  with a redundant tool-tip descriptor  .... out of 12  =  almost all are rendered useless?

Wonderful  grasp  of  language,  logic and  mathamatics  here on your part.  Bravo.


[quote]Naitaka wrote...
[quote] Yrkoon wrote...

the Unmodded 2-h warrior talents of all 3  branches are absolutely superb in so many ways

[/quote]

this was your exact quote. That 2-h warrior talents of ALL 3 branches are superb in so many ways, then you go right on to say "And Destroyer is garbage even when fixed." Now who's making contradictory statement anyway?
[/quote]
Yep.   The talents of  all three branches are superb, including the branch that contains destroyer.   I certainly wouldn't EVER claim that this branch   (which happens to also contain Both sunders) is something other than superb.  Because that would be silly. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 13 janvier 2011 - 05:17 .

[Last Darkness]

Zy-El wrote...

One thing that no one has mentioned here is the use of Poisons. Not only do they inflict extra damage but the more concentrated forms may also stun an opponent and reduce their movement speed. Poisons are relatively cheap and the darkspawn are dropping them quite regularly. Before the start of a fight, click on several poisons one after another - their effects do stack.

Poisons and traps are two of the most useful and underrated abilities in the game.

Anyways I like how Naitaka and Yrkoon, cant leave some room for the other to end the discussion. One has to be right and other has to be wroung, the rules of a forum discussion. The way I see it is they are both technicaly right (Which is the best kind of being right lol ) im on Yrkoons side though since hes my friend. Go Yrkoon you are the most correct then the other guy !

[Yrkoon]

I'm always right sometimes.

[BlazingSpeed]

Nice analysis on what is wrong with vanilla 2 handers Naitaka for further reference you can look at BeanCounters thread (which was out after the 1.04 patch...) about Shatttering Blows and his post of the script about the fact that Shattering Blows wasn't even triggering.



You can also compare Dennis Lee's Combat Tweaks fixed Shattering Blows version to the toolset version another reason 2 handers are gimped in the vanilla game is because most of the "+ healing" and "Weakens Darkspawn" effects on the weapons are also bugged without the fixpack mod.



Of course even with the gimped 2-hander the vanilla Dragon Age is not much of a problem with stacking poisons and other glitches but when you add on difficulty mods like RavAGE and Flash creature rescale the enemies are a lot smarter and when three Hurlocks surround your PC then light up Indomitable, Precise Striking along with Destroyer and Sunder Armor and 2 handed Sweep combined with crazy weapons you will need every trick you can get a hold of in order to win.

[Yrkoon]

BlazingSpeed wrote...

Nice analysis on what is wrong with vanilla 2 handers Naitaka for further reference you can look at BeanCounters thread (which was out after the 1.04 patch...) about Shatttering Blows and his post of the script about the fact that Shattering Blows wasn't even triggering.

Really?   Which One?

[Random70]

Yrkoon wrote...
Really?   Which One?

Try here.