61 réponses à ce sujet

[Hero 117]

i was wondering if anyone could give me any instructions on this.

thank you in advance

[thesuperdarkone]

Save City

Fully upgrade Keep (Fix walls, get all metals for wade, close the underground opening, make all of Dworkin's bombs, and get all the merchants for the keep)

Conscript Alec

Make Vigilance

Do all companion quests

Intimidate the peasants

Do all Blight Orphan quests

Send soldiers to the farms

Use the Dark Wolf to kill the conspirators

Spare the Messenger

Find the tablet in Kal Hirol and give it to the dwarves

Spare the Architect

[Jon Jern_]

Sparing him is debatable.

[IanPolaris]

I disagree with some of this.  For the best overall ending (and why), IMHO you should do the followingL

[quote]thesuperdarkone wrote...

Save City
[/quote]

Agreed.  This is the best choice for everyone.

[quote]
Fully upgrade Keep (Fix walls, get all metals for wade, close the underground opening, make all of Dworkin's bombs, and get all the merchants for the keep)
[/quote]

Agreed.  Not only do you get better gear later in the game, but the keep survives even though you saved the City (although the game won't show it the epilogs will) and the wardens you leave behind will also survive.  If you don't do the upgrades, they won't.

[quote]
Conscript Alec
[/quote]

Agreed.  This has a particularly satisfying (and good) epilog.

[quote]
Make Vigilance
[/quote]

Agreed, see above.  Besides, Vigilance is a nice blade for someone.

[quote]
Do all companion quests
[/quote]

This is almost mandatory if you want to get the best epilogs.  One other point.  Unless you save the architect (which I don't recommend see below and see my Sig), kill Velanna.  Don't recruit her.  Unless you save the architect, her epilogs are almost always bad news no matter what your approval is with her.

[quote]
Intimidate the peasants
[/quote]

Agreed.  It's not obvious, but it's better to intimidate them if possible or just kill them if not.  You'll regret persuading them in the long run.

[quote]
Do all Blight Orphan quests
[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]
Send soldiers to the farms
[/quote]

Actually no.  This is the second best choice.  The best choice (since it also protects the trade routes AND the farms giving you the best ending) is "Try to Protect Them All".

[quote]
Use the Dark Wolf to kill the conspirators
[/quote]

Yepper although it will cost you 50 soveriegns.

[quote]
Spare the Messenger
[/quote]

Absolutely not.  You should kill the messenger since he spreads the darkspawn taint/blight whereever he goes afterwards which does far more harm to the people he helps than any personal good he might do.

[quote]
Find the tablet in Kal Hirol and give it to the dwarves
[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]
Spare the Architect
[/quote]

Absolutely POSITIVELY, not.  This is a horrible decision that may well lead to the extinction of all thinking peoples of Thedas (if not the world).  Darkspawn instrinscially can not coexist peacefully with other races (remember broodmothers.....the Architect doesn't fix that).  Remember the taint?  This clown wanted to taint the entire world!  This clown CAUSED the last blight. 

Giving such a race that already is vicious, agressive, and breeds incredibly fast BRAINS as well is as Sigrun put it a stupid, stupid thing to do.

-Polaris

[EmperorSahlertz]

Except that before they had brains they were all unified in a single purpose. Now with brains they fight amongst themselves. Yeah, Darkspawn takes a few surface races' (and Dwarf) females once in a while, but nothing is going to prevent that any time soon.

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Except that before they had brains they were all unified in a single purpose. Now with brains they fight amongst themselves. Yeah, Darkspawn takes a few surface races' (and Dwarf) females once in a while, but nothing is going to prevent that any time soon.

Darkspawn are viscious and outbreed all other races.  Futhermore their very presence causes death and suffering to all others....and now you want to make the SMART?!?

You think this is a good idea WHY?????

-Polaris

[Bigdoser]

Darkspawn is a parasitic race they cannot live with people and velanna is debatable depending on how you rp your warden.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 13 janvier 2011 - 07:34 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

IanPolaris wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Fully upgrade Keep (Fix walls, get all metals for wade, close the underground opening, make all of Dworkin's bombs, and get all the merchants for the keep)

Agreed.  Not only do you get better gear later in the game, but the keep survives even though you saved the City (although the game won't show it the epilogs will) and the wardens you leave behind will also survive.  If you don't do the upgrades, they won't.

Actually, unless there's some bug with the epilogue slides, you lose at least two companions at the keep no matter how much it's upgraded. Justice will die, and Velanna 'disappears' after a section of wall falls on her.

Taking them with you to fight the Mother prevents this outcome, though if you spare the Architect you will have to convince persuade Justice it's a good idea or he'll attack you. And if you don't spare the Architect with Velanna in your party, her epilogue basically says she never forgives the Warden Commander for it as she never sees her sister again.

You should kill the messenger since he spreads the darkspawn taint/blight whereever he goes afterwards which does far more harm to the people he helps than any personal good he might do.

It's debatable whether the Messenger causes more damage with the 'isolated reportings of taint'  than he prevents by rescuing travellers in distress. People get hurt if you spare him (unintentionally, to be sure), but people are saved by him too.

Ultimately, by killing him, it's clear you're killing a creature who would have attempted to help people (and do a good job at it, judging by the rumours).

Spare the Architect

Absolutely POSITIVELY, not.  This is a horrible decision that may well lead to the extinction of all thinking peoples of Thedas (if not the world).  Darkspawn instrinscially can not coexist peacefully with other races (remember broodmothers.....the Architect doesn't fix that).  Remember the taint?  This clown wanted to taint the entire world!  This clown CAUSED the last blight. 

Giving such a race that already is vicious, agressive, and breeds incredibly fast BRAINS as well is as Sigrun put it a stupid, stupid thing to do.

That depends on your point of view, I suppose. From the epilogue at least, the dwarves seem to be greatly benefitted if you spare the Architect--the darkspawn pull back completely from the surface and the Deep Roads are quiet for the first time in living memory. If you kill the Architect, the Deep Roads remained plagued and the dwarves have to keep fighting.

And if the Messenger is any indication, just because a darkspawn has brains doesn't mean it will end up vicious, agressive, evil, or mindlessly serving the Architect forever after it's been awakened.

So, ya know...YMMV.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 13 janvier 2011 - 07:54 .

[IanPolaris]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Fully upgrade Keep (Fix walls, get all metals for wade, close the underground opening, make all of Dworkin's bombs, and get all the merchants for the keep)

Agreed.  Not only do you get better gear later in the game, but the keep survives even though you saved the City (although the game won't show it the epilogs will) and the wardens you leave behind will also survive.  If you don't do the upgrades, they won't.

Actually, unless there's some bug with the epilogue slides, you lose at least two companions at the keep no matter how much it's upgraded. Justice will die, and Velanna 'disappears' after a section of wall falls on her.

Taking them with you to fight the Mother prevents this outcome, though if you spare the Architect you will have to convince persuade Justice it's a good idea or he'll attack you. And if you don't spare the Architect with Velanna in your party, her epilogue basically says she never forgives the Warden Commander for it as she never sees her sister again.

Checking the dialog files, you're right.  Of course I never recruit Velanna (anymore) and I pretty much always take Justice since he's a far superior tank than Oghren...which explains why I never saw those results.

You should kill the messenger since he spreads the darkspawn taint/blight whereever he goes afterwards which does far more harm to the people he helps than any personal good he might do.

It's debatable whether the Messenger causes more damage with the 'isolated reportings of taint'  than he prevents by rescuing travellers in distress. People get hurt if you spare him (unintentionally, to be sure), but people are saved by him too.

I don't think it's that debatable.  Contact with Darkspawn causes taint sickness, and taint sickness is always fatal.  If you resist it initially, it turns you into a ghoul, but it's still always fatal.  When mere contact causes a fatal disease it's hard to justify anything the messenger does as being worth more than this loss.  Sorry, but the messenger should die.

Ultimately, by killing him, it's clear you're killing a creature who would have attempted to help people (and do a good job at it, judging by the rumours).

And in so doing you are prevenint more harm than good.

Spare the Architect

Absolutely POSITIVELY, not.  This is a horrible decision that may well lead to the extinction of all thinking peoples of Thedas (if not the world).  Darkspawn instrinscially can not coexist peacefully with other races (remember broodmothers.....the Architect doesn't fix that).  Remember the taint?  This clown wanted to taint the entire world!  This clown CAUSED the last blight. 

Giving such a race that already is vicious, agressive, and breeds incredibly fast BRAINS as well is as Sigrun put it a stupid, stupid thing to do.

That depends on your point of view, I suppose. From the epilogue at least, the dwarves seem to be greatly benefitted if you spare the Architect--the darkspawn pull back completely from the surface and the Deep Roads are quiet for the first time in living memory. If you kill the Architect, the Deep Roads remained plagued and the dwarves have to keep fighting.

And if the Messenger is any indication, just because a darkspawn has brains doesn't mean it will end up vicious, agressive, evil, or mindlessly serving the Architect forever after it's been awakened.

So, ya know...YMMV.

Oh ye of short term thinking.  Do you think the First was a nice and cuddley Disciple?  How about Withered who's idea of 'negotiating' with the Grey Wardens constitutes slaughtering almost all of them (and taking the balance back for demented experiments)?

Darkspawn are a purely parasitic race that simply can not coexist with other people.  Period.  Making them smart and independant of the Old Gods (of which there are only two left) is a stupid, stupid thing to do.  Sigrun is absolutely, positively correct in this assessment.

-Polaris

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

IanPolaris wrote...

[snip]

-Polaris

Hey, whatever. I prefer to look at the merits of both sides rather than just shaking my fist and yelling: "Noooooo! That way is horrible!"

The nice thing about Dragon Age is that the Good and Evil/Black and White debates aren't as cut and dried as some people seem to think. The 'best' ending for the game is a matter of perspective. It differs between players and even between the player's characters if they enjoy RPing Wardens with different personalities, beliefs and prejudices.

[LobselVith8]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Hey, whatever. I prefer to look at the merits of both sides rather than just shaking my fist and yelling: "Noooooo! That way is horrible!"

The nice thing about Dragon Age is that the Good and Evil/Black and White debates aren't as cut and dried as some people seem to think. The 'best' ending for the game is a matter of perspective. It differs between players and even between the player's characters if they enjoy RPing Wardens with different personalities, beliefs and prejudices.

I agree. I think one of DA's strengths is that it can force the player to make a decision that isn't necessarily good or evil, whether it's debates over the morality of the Chantry's actions against the mages or making a leap of faith for the dark ritual. Considering that the Architect's presence among the Disciples (if he's spared) makes the Deep Roads more peaceful and has the potential to end the next two Blights from happening, I think it's a risk worth considering. I know KoP gave a compelling reason to spare the Architect:

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I spared him for several reasons.

Firstly, it's what I saw in the Architect.
I saw in him a visionary and a messiah for his people. I respect his desire to free his people from their beastial nature. In addition, he is rational and reasonable, in otherwords someone who can be negotiated with.
If the darkspawn are capable of becoming free and create their own civilisation, then they deserve that right.
I do not think it was entirely his fault that the 5th Blight began. It would have started anyhow, with or wihout the Architect. His experiments have had negative consequences, but the Architect is rational. He can learn from his mistakes.

Second, it was the Mother that is the immediate threat and not the Architect, who was willing to support us against her. The Mother is insane, she can't be negotiated with and she had to be destroyed immediately. Should the Architect become a threat in the future, he will be delt with then, but right now he is not the immeidate threat. Rather, he is a potential ally.

Third, the Architect is the only one that can avert the 2 blights. Can any of you guarantee that we can defeat the 2 blights or if they won't cause the death of millions? I can't. If helping the Architect might give us a chance, no matter how slim, to avert the blights then I would be willing to take that risk.

I know very well that a freed darkspawn race would still fight wars against the other races. But I would rather have a rational and reasonable enemy that has shown some form of principles (the Withered at Vigil), instead of having to face the 2 blights that are not based upon ratioinal interest nor are guided by any principle.
And such future wars are beneficial. Strife, conflict, competition, those are the drive force of development, as long as they are within reasonable borders (the blights aren't).

Those are my reasons as to why I spared him. I would not be surprised if he turns out to be a threat in the future though and he would be delt with should that happen. So overall, I do not regret my decision. The benfits that it could potentially provide exceed the risks.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

First of all contact with a Darkspawn does not guarentee blight sickness.

Second of all, the blight the Messenger does end up spreading is never connected to the rumor of a hooded traveller, which evidently means he saves a lot more poeple than succumbs to the blight, since the two is never connected.

Third of all, with the Darkspawn gaining brains, they also gain different points of view, instead of their all encompasing urge to dig for an old god they now suddenly disaggree, and even makle war on eachother. Darkspawn killing Darkspawn= less Darkspawn no matter the outcome, and since they breed so damn fast, the war between two Darkspawn factions will never end, and the surface won't be affected (neccesarily) at all. It also means less pressure on Orzammar since less Darkspawn will find a reason to attack the Dwarves, so yeah, the Darkspawn gaining brains are a good thing.

[LobselVith8]

IanPolaris wrote...

I disagree with some of this.  For the best overall ending (and why), IMHO you should do the followingL

thesuperdarkone wrote...

Spare the Messenger

Absolutely not.  You should kill the messenger since he spreads the darkspawn taint/blight whereever he goes afterwards which does far more harm to the people he helps than any personal good he might do.

-Polaris

I heard this was bugged on Awakening (in that the epilogue shows him to be alive even when he's executed as a result of conscripting him into the battle at Amaranthine).

[Hero 117]

i also would like to know who i should bring along for the defense of amaranthine and the final battle with the mother

[Wereparrot]

Agreed.  This is the best choice for everyone.

Yes and no. It is certainly the most moral and desirable thing to do, but militarily speaking it is extremely risky.

[CalJones]

Hero - it depends on who you like and what kind of party balance you want. All the characters can kick ass in their own way. Usually I roll with Anders, Nathaniel and Sigrun because those are my favourite characters.



Regarding who lives and dies if left at the keep (if it is fully upgraded and you save Amaranthine), Oghren, Anders and Nathaniel will live (I think Nathaniel leaves the wardens, but I'm not sure...I always take him with me). Justice will die, but it's a good death and Kristoff's wife can reclaim the body. Sigrun will die heroically. Velanna will disappear.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Only Justice dies if you complete all companion quests and have a fully upgraded keep (Velanna disappears).

[CalJones]

Not so. As I said, Sigrun will also die (even with quest done and full approval).

[Ferretinabun]

No, Sigrun can survive if you do her companion mission and select the right dialogue options, stating that you value her as a friend. The epligoue slide runs something along the lines of 'Whenever Sigrun decided to venture into the Deep Roads for her last stand, the Warden Commander always found an urgent mission for her to do, though she never stopped joking about her imminent death.'

[wickedgoodreed]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Third of all, with the Darkspawn gaining brains, they also gain different points of view, instead of their all encompasing urge to dig for an old god they now suddenly disaggree, and even makle war on eachother. Darkspawn killing Darkspawn= less Darkspawn no matter the outcome, and since they breed so damn fast, the war between two Darkspawn factions will never end, and the surface won't be affected (neccesarily) at all. It also means less pressure on Orzammar since less Darkspawn will find a reason to attack the Dwarves, so yeah, the Darkspawn gaining brains are a good thing.

In the short term, maybe. But in the long term, even the Architect thinks they'll become a threat to humanity.

*spoilers for The Calling*

After reading The Calling, there's no way I'd ever spare the Architect. His master plan isn't simply to free the darkspawn from the call of the Old Gods and make them capable of independent thought and speech (which is a debatable enough goal to begin with). He knows that its not possible for darkspawn and humanity to coexist in the long term. In his own words,"Ending the Blights is not enough...Freed of their compulsions, the darkspawn would tear each other apart. It would be a vast bloodletting. But in time they would regain their numbers, and then the threat of the taint we carry would once again bring us into conflict with your kind."

So what's his grand compromise? Taint all of humanity.

Yes, that's right. He'd use his magic to quickly spread the taint across all of Thedas in one fell swoop in some sort of darkspawn equivalent of biological warfare. Granted, most people would die...but hey, those who survive would become ghouls capable of coexisting with darkspawn and everyone could begin again in "peace." [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]

Modifié par wickedgoodreed, 13 janvier 2011 - 06:53 .

[Hero 117]

all i have left before the finale is velannas exile which i am having trouble getting. should i just go ahead and do the final quest?

[Eber]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I heard this was bugged on Awakening (in that the epilogue shows him to be alive even when he's executed as a result of conscripting him into the battle at Amaranthine).

It is. If you let him fight in the battle you get the mysterious helper/darkspawn disease epilogue even if you kill him. It also works the other way around meaning if you tie him up and then let him go you do not get it. The epilogue hinges on if you tie him up or not. Killing him or sparing him does not effect it.

We can't be sure the save file even logs if you spare him or not, if it does we have yet to see that information used, so I would advice people to take the safe route and always let him fight if they plan to release him and always tie him up if they plan to kill him if getting the right ending/export is important to them.

Modifié par Eber, 13 janvier 2011 - 07:48 .

[LobselVith8]

Hero 117 wrote...

all i have left before the finale is velannas exile which i am having trouble getting. should i just go ahead and do the final quest?

It typically triggers when you're heading from Amaranthine City to Vigil's Keep. It helps get a good ending for Velanna if you're interested (in changing her views on humanity).

[CalJones]

Ferretinabun wrote...

No, Sigrun can survive if you do her companion mission and select the right dialogue options, stating that you value her as a friend. The epligoue slide runs something along the lines of 'Whenever Sigrun decided to venture into the Deep Roads for her last stand, the Warden Commander always found an urgent mission for her to do, though she never stopped joking about her imminent death.'

I've only had that slide when I've taken her to kill the Mother. Whenever I've left her to defend the keep, she gets a slide saying "Sigrun was the one to lead the battle against the Darkspawn during the attack on Vigil's Keep with another army at her back. Once again, she and a legion faced the Darkspawn with no hope of survival. This time she did not run."

nb, with Velanna, you can only get her "good" ending if you change her views and then agree to work with the Architect. She isn't happy if you kill him.

Modifié par CalJones, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:23 .

[GavrielKay]

wickedgoodreed wrote...

After reading The Calling, there's no way I'd ever spare the Architect. His master plan isn't simply to free the darkspawn from the call of the Old Gods and make them capable of independent thought and speech (which is a debatable enough goal to begin with)....

So what's his grand compromise? Taint all of humanity.

This.  The very first time I played Awakening I spared the Architect because at first hearing it sounds like it might be worth letting him give his plan a try.  Then I read The Calling and realized there was more to it.  On all playthroughs after that I just couldn't bring myself to let him go.

I tend to spare the Messenger, even though I feel a bit torn about it.  He is sincere about helping people, but some of them don't seem to be as "helped" as others