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[panamakira]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The fact that someone in Thedas might actually suggest that as a means to deal with intelligent darkspawn makes me feel that killing the Architect is the best route to take.

Wow~ Yeah I read that whole convo and seriously it was very disturbing and I wouldn't be surprised "if" things got out of hand with "intelligent" darkspawn so that people, if not the Chantry, would start making even more disturbing decisions like that to appease darkspawn. Who has less value as a living thing? Who deserves to be sacrificed? Those that can suffer and feel pain because they "deserve it" or those that do not feel or think? That is some shady mutted grey if you'd want to sacrifice someone because they can't feel. In that case, yes, I'd feel bad about it but I'd rather kill the Architect.

I like to believe that my warden is giving the benefit of doubt to the Architect. I mean, if there is a way to actually solve the "Blight" in a long-term solution is worth looking into it. The Warden is the mediator between the other races and darkspawn. The best thing my warden could do was trust, the Architect, and hope things would get better and like somebody said before, I'd rather have darskpawn killing each other, which means less darkspawn on surface and there is the possibility to reason with one of the faction siding with the Architect or that don't wish to kill the other races vs ALL of them as a unit attacking the surface led by an archdemon.

Now, I know it may be different to other people, but in a way you have the same risk of trusting the Architect as you have Morgan and Flemeth with the Dark Ritual. People might argue these are different decisions but the way I see it we had similar options with a great risk.

In the case of Morrigan, we let the Dark Ritual happen and we "trust" her to use the Old God child in a good way as she said and hope Morrigan won't either loose the baby to Flemeth or become something similar to Flemeth and be a threat in the future. I mean we do not know what will happen for those who chose the Dark Ritual. We do not know what Morrigan is truly wanting to do with a child with that much "power". So in the end, the warden has the assume Morrigan and OGB could be a danger to the world, but we have to "trust" her so that we can live. I mean Witch Hunt in a way made me question really good if DR was a good solution.

Similarly in terms of the Architect, we kill him and have short term solution like we always do stop any more threats until the next generation of warden have to deal with another blight OR we spare him for the time being and have him provide a better alternatative to darkspawn to not respond the calling of the archdemons but that can also rationalize for themselves. It should also go with something along the lines of "I better see some results or we scratch that plan and you go join Mother."

I mean as a plan B we have the option of at least having the Architect provide a long term solution and if that doesn't work we can always take care of him like Mother and go back to plan A which is what the warden always do.

If Morrigan was a risk worth taking, I believe so is the Architect. 

[Dark Specie]

LobselVith8 wrote...
The fact that someone in Thedas might actually suggest that as a means to deal with intelligent darkspawn makes me feel that killing the Architect is the best route to take.

I feel that killing the Architect might not help matter either way though. In fact, it might even make things worse.

After all, some of the Architect's disciples DO get away, and assuming that they know of how to make others like them, it effectively means that they can continue the Architect's work, and they may not have what wisdom and restraint the Architect himself possesses.

Whichever choice we make, I think that intelligent (and by that I mean human/dwarf/elf-level intelligent darkspawn) are now for the better or worse a permanent  part of the setting of Thedas - it'll make thigns more grey as such...

[Hatem]

Dragon Age is a great game but it appears that many of the choices are basically a coin toss. Epilogue shows you only a short-term effect but you never know what will happen in the long run. Sure, the Deep Roads become quiet if you spare the Architect but you don't know if he will eventually resurface to taint the entire world.

[Cutlass Jack]

My feeling is killing the Architect insures nothing ever changes. The Blight will be back some day.  Letting him live is the best chance of there never being another blight. Worst case scenario is they attack the surface just like it was a blight anyway. Best case scenario is we never see them again.

Since the worst case is what we already had, it's not a terrible decision to roll the dice. The Messenger was already proof that not all intelligent Darkspawn are automatically evil.

But really there is no fully right or wrong way to go with that choice. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

[LobselVith8]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

My feeling is killing the Architect insures nothing ever changes. The Blight will be back some day.  Letting him live is the best chance of there never being another blight. Worst case scenario is they attack the surface just like it was a blight anyway. Best case scenario is we never see them again.

Except the darkspawn have overrun the Deep Roads and the lost thaigs, and the dwarven kingdoms used to run the length of Thedas. It's impossible for the Architect to give intelligence to enough darkspawn to stop the rest from seeking out the next Archdemon. We can also see from the sneak attack on Vigil's Keep that not all of the darkspawn will be as benevolent as the Messenger, who spreads darkspawn disease in his attempts to help people. There's also the scenerio of the intelligent darkspawn wanting to create more Broodmothers or wanting expand onto the surface - since they carry darkspawn disease and corrupt everything they touch, we might be condemning women and societies in general by sparing the Architect.

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Since the worst case is what we already had, it's not a terrible decision to roll the dice. The Messenger was already proof that not all intelligent Darkspawn are automatically evil.

But really there is no fully right or wrong way to go with that choice. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

I agree that it's a difficult choice. There's no clear right or wrong, and we have to make the best decision that we can at the moment we're faced with the Architect. One of the reasons I like DA.

[LobselVith8]

Gr4ntus wrote...

Dragon Age is a great game but it appears that many of the choices are basically a coin toss. Epilogue shows you only a short-term effect but you never know what will happen in the long run. Sure, the Deep Roads become quiet if you spare the Architect but you don't know if he will eventually resurface to taint the entire world.

True, it's quiet for a while when the Architect is spared, but what happens when the intelligent darkspawn want to eat and breed? Darkspawn eat people, they rape women. The "To Those who Spared the Architect" thread basically had over fifty pages of people debating this very issue, and krylo suggested handing over women (who broke the law) to intelligent darkspawn to make "peace" with them:

krylo wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

@krylo, you might be shy of female serial killers even in our day, with a much higher population.

So what is your plan B, failing a couple of female Fereldan Ted Bundy's being turned over to the darkspawn? I'm sure the Chantry would offer up some other possibilities. Blood mages, etc. Kill a few birds with one broodmothering stone.

Blood mages was the original plan.

Seeming as they're to be executed or made tranquil anyway.

And really, what's terrible about the rape etc. isn't the physical pain.  It's the emotional trauma.

Tranquils aren't like us.  They're just dolls.  They have nothing left of what makes them human, and it would be impossible for them to be hurt, beyond a few scrapes and bruises, by what the darkspawn do.

Being punched in the face isn't pain.  Being cut is't pain.  Being electrocuted isn't pain.  It's all just purely physical.  It can be ignored, moved past, and endured.  I've been through my share of physical pain, and you know what?

Physical pain doesn't hurt.

Emotional trauma does.

The tranquil have no feelings and thus could feel no trauma.  There'd be no fear.  No horror.  No sense of being violated.  It would just be the motions.

The tranquil are already dead.

Which--by the by--is why I hate the chantry for even doing it to any mage who is 'too weak'.  It's murder, but without the body and a prettied up name.

Basically, take women who broke the law, and hand them over to the darkspawn. That was the suggestion that was made by some on the "spare the Architect" side of the debate. I have to admit that I find this appauling and monstorous. Sparing the Architect could possibly lead to a never-ending war with intelligent darkspawn.  It was summed up by those who killed him as:

IanPolaris wrote...

Volourn,

I will make this simple: Elves don't need to eat humans and rape human women just to survive. Elves don't outbreed humans 1000:1 (conservative estimate) and don't lay the land to waste (and spread uncurable disease) everywhere they go.

The Darkspawn do all of these things. This is what I mean when I say that even IF the Darkspawn fight each other, they can not coexist with humanity. Morality has nothing to do with it. When one race must destroy yours to survive, then Genocide is the appropriate response. It's either humanity or the Darkspawn. Time to step up and take a side.

-Polaris

Modifié par LobselVith8, 31 janvier 2011 - 11:38 .

[Daedalus92]

I know this thread is a old, but I can't seem to find a proper answer on this anywhere, there's one on the wikia, but it's vague.
Anyways, when you do the quest "A day in Court" (you can see the quest here), what exactly happens in the final battle if you let Danella and her family move to the keep? I know more people desert, but does it have any other effect than say having less NPC's to help you in the final battle? I'm planning to save both Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep (I have read that it is possible, but I'm not 100% sure of it though).
So, short version: If I let Danella go and save amaranthine, will Vigil's Keep still survive even though others deserted?

Modifié par Daedalus92, 03 mars 2011 - 08:40 .

[thesuperdarkone]

Daedalus92 wrote...

I know this thread is a old, but I can't seem to find a proper answer on this anywhere, there's one on the wikia, but it's vague.
Anyways, when you do the quest "A day in Court" (you can see the quest here), what exactly happens in the final battle if you let Danella and her family move to the keep? I know more people desert, but does it have any other effect than say having less NPC's to help you in the final battle? I'm planning to save both Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep (I have read that it is possible, but I'm not 100% sure of it though).
So, short version: If I let Danella go and save amaranthine, will Vigil's Keep still survive even though others deserted?

 

The best option is to have her imprisoned but do you really want to have people desert just to be a nice dude?

[Daedalus92]

Yeah, I think I'll just do that, I'm still curious though, how does it affect the final battle if you're in Amaranthine?

[xzxzxz701]

Daedalus92 wrote...

Yeah, I think I'll just do that, I'm still curious though, how does it affect the final battle if you're in Amaranthine?

It doesn't have any affect on the final battle.

[Daedalus92]

Oh, thanks for the info. Although It's weird that it says so on the dragon age wikia.
"If Danella is released despite her desertion, it will encourage further desertions; this option will also have repercussions with the men during the final battle."
Thanks again!

[Ferretinabun]

Daedalus92 wrote...

Oh, thanks for the info. Although It's weird that it says so on the dragon age wikia.
"If Danella is released despite her desertion, it will encourage further desertions; this option will also have repercussions with the men during the final battle."
Thanks again!

If true (which I cannot confirm), then it MIGHT simply mean you get fewer troops to fight with if you choose to save the Keep.
Just a guess.