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[DarkSeraphym]

elfadelbosco wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

An impossibility. It has been mentioned that the Reapers have actually been doing this for millions of years and, if I'm not mistaken, that the Reapers last did this 50,000 years ago as of Mass Effect. There is no way that the Protheans, who became Collectors, could have created the Reapers as Mass Effect implies that there have been hundreds, thousands, possibly even millions of cycles like this one that have taken place already.

yes, but this is something told by the Sovereign itself, there are no species ancient enough to remember that, and to confirm that... This could be part of the 'fairy tale' installed in Reaper's memory by the Protheans to hide their big mistake creating these monsters...look at the Quarians, they're ill-treated by the whole galaxy for creating the Geths, can you blame the Protheans for trying to confuse ideas about the Reapers? Then the machines took control over them and they became Collectors... but this is mere speculation, only BW knows the truth... or it's working on it

I'm not going to lie, that theory sounds like something someone who wears tin foil on their head would come up with. No offense or anything, its just a very...creative idea. If it turns out to be right, I have a box of oreos and a bottle of Captain Morgans that I am willing to share with you.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 janvier 2011 - 11:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Arijharn wrote...

I don't think so, mainly because we know that the Reapers are at least 37 million years old as 'dated' by the crater on Klendagon.

I would actually be disappointed if the key to defeating the Reapers somehow lies buried in a Prothean legacy, because it makes a) The Prothean's defeat all the more puzzling and The Reapers less of a menace imo.

The Leviathan of Dis civilization was at least a billion, I believe.

[DarkSeraphym]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I don't think so, mainly because we know that the Reapers are at least 37 million years old as 'dated' by the crater on Klendagon.

I would actually be disappointed if the key to defeating the Reapers somehow lies buried in a Prothean legacy, because it makes a) The Prothean's defeat all the more puzzling and The Reapers less of a menace imo.

The Leviathan of Dis civilization was at least a billion, I believe.

You are a correct, but in Arijharn's defense we don't know for sure whether or not the Leviathan was a Reaper. The Batarians carried it off nearly as quickly as it was discovered. From the description, it sounds like one but a part of me wonders why it hasn't proven problematic for the Batarians yet as even if it were a dead Reaper, even dead Reapers can still indoctrinate organics.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 janvier 2011 - 12:18 .

[Arijharn]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I don't think so, mainly because we know that the Reapers are at least 37 million years old as 'dated' by the crater on Klendagon.

I would actually be disappointed if the key to defeating the Reapers somehow lies buried in a Prothean legacy, because it makes a) The Prothean's defeat all the more puzzling and The Reapers less of a menace imo.

The Leviathan of Dis civilization was at least a billion, I believe.

I personally never got the impression that the Leviathan of Dis was related to the whole concept of the Reapers though like the volus billionaire's 'beings of light', but I concede it's been a while since I last played ME1.

@DarkSeraphym: the vigil thing is why I think it would be puzzling. I'm not quite ready to buy Zulu's theory that Vigil is actually Sovereign, but if the Prothean's start offering too many solutions, then personally that stretches it a bit too much in my opinion, namely if the Prothean's are so super capable then they should have been able to stop the reapers with far more assurity I guess than just flipping a Keeper switch.

[Dean_the_Young]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I don't think so, mainly because we know that the Reapers are at least 37 million years old as 'dated' by the crater on Klendagon.

I would actually be disappointed if the key to defeating the Reapers somehow lies buried in a Prothean legacy, because it makes a) The Prothean's defeat all the more puzzling and The Reapers less of a menace imo.

The Leviathan of Dis civilization was at least a billion, I believe.

You are a correct, but in Arijharn's defense we don't know for sure whether or not the Leviathan was a Reaper. The Batarians carried it off nearly as quickly as it was discovered. From the description, it sounds like one but a part of me wonders why it hasn't proven problematic for the Batarians yet as even if it were a dead Reaper, even dead Reapers can still indoctrinate organics.

What does that baseless fan-theory have to do with anything?

The point isn't that the Leviathan of Dis is a Reaper. The point is that the entire civilization that built the Leviathan of Dis was wiped out, most likely by the Reapers.

Could the Leviathan of Dis pre-date the Reapers? From a thematic, literary, perspective, very likely not.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 14 janvier 2011 - 12:33 .

[DarkSeraphym]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

DarkSeraphym wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I don't think so, mainly because we know that the Reapers are at least 37 million years old as 'dated' by the crater on Klendagon.

I would actually be disappointed if the key to defeating the Reapers somehow lies buried in a Prothean legacy, because it makes a) The Prothean's defeat all the more puzzling and The Reapers less of a menace imo.

The Leviathan of Dis civilization was at least a billion, I believe.

You are a correct, but in Arijharn's defense we don't know for sure whether or not the Leviathan was a Reaper. The Batarians carried it off nearly as quickly as it was discovered. From the description, it sounds like one but a part of me wonders why it hasn't proven problematic for the Batarians yet as even if it were a dead Reaper, even dead Reapers can still indoctrinate organics.

What does that baseless fan-theory have to do with anything?

The point isn't that the Leviathan of Dis is a Reaper. The point is that the entire civilization that built the Leviathan of Dis was wiped out, mostly by the Reapers.

Could the Leviathan of Dis pre-date the Reapers? From a thematic, literary, perspective, very likely not.

I apologize, it wasn't a theory as much as it was flawed reasoning in me assuming that the premise of your point was to say that the Leviathan of Dis was a Reaper and was 1 billion years old, which would make the Reapers at least that old. I see now that was not your premise so I can see the point you were trying to make.

[RVallant]

DarkSeraphym wrote...

elfadelbosco wrote...

Don't know why, but I believe that there's more than mere Collector's tech in the Collector's base, I got the impression that there was something purely 'reaperish' ...
Anyway, I destroyed it because I saw what it was able to do to the strongest minds, like Saren's and Benezia's, and I thought it was better to find another way. But in my 3rd playthrough I'll keep it to see what will happen.
The good thing in ME series is that any action goes for itself, I mean, you don't have to be a renegade to get the chance to keep the base, you can do a full playthrough as a paragon and decide to keep the base.
What I don't like is killing all the people standing on your path, and most of all Wrex, he's a friend of yours, good heavens!

Well, as I pointed out any Collector tech is, for all intents and purposes, Reaper technology. The Reapers are the ones who gave it to them in the first place so all tech on the Collector Base is Reaper tech. I'm just pointing out that Shepard has already had to rely upon Reaper technology in the past and he will have to continue to do so. I don't think the Collector Base is going to have nearly as much impact upon the destruction of the Reapers as it will just lead to an easier fight, possibly even create enough technology to "secure humanity's dominance against the Reaper's and beyond" and end up providing humanity with a way of securing their control of the Council. BioWare isn't going to screw Paragon or Renegade players into a losing situation just because they are Paragon or Renegade. If this premise is true, then that likely means the thing that will beat the Reapers probably isn't in the Collector Base anyways. That or BioWare could surprise us all and create different ways of defeating the Reapers depending upon your choices, which would likely be just two choices where either you use the Collector Base or you have to use something else.

Besides, I'm interested in knowing whether or not the Reapers even thought to put much of a defense, like devices for indoctrination, on the Collector Base in the first place. As we've seen, the Reapers aren't as much an omniscient race, like they claim they are, as much as they are extremely intelligent machines with superior technology and enough tactical know-how to be able to make organic life develop however they wanted, relying upon the ignorance of their existence as their greatest weapon. As we've seen from the first and second game, the Reapers appear to be sort of "shellshocked" now that their master plan has been disrupted twice. The Collectors even did a rather poor job of defending the base when Shepard got there. Hell, the biggest defense of the entire base was the fact that only the Collectors could reliably avoid being launched by the Omega-4 Relay into the supermassive black hole.

Just a thought but, given that all tech is 'technically' Reaper tech (Sovereign's point of technology advancing down the path they'd prefer due to Mass relays and other tech) the alternative way to look at it disregarding Paragon and Renegade mind sets is that it is time for the species to start developing technology of their own. That is going on the assumption that the whole reason the Reapers leave this 'tech-encouraging' path is because all the races will only build technology the Reapers already have defences against.

On the other hand I do see the argument there for getting Reaper tech to reverse engineer it and find methods to beat it. Probably the ultimate solution would be the balance of the two, getting 'reaper tech' and developing something they never accounted for. Who knows.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Renegades are actually going to be the toughest Shepards out of them all. Those Shepards may well beat the Reapers without a squad, without the Rachni, and without the Council.



They'll be doing more with less.



P.S. I'm a Paragode, I have a little Renegade but by far mostly Paragon.