603 réponses à ce sujet

[Googlesaurus]

If it opposes the intentions of world-building, yes. That's more of a personal preference: I want all the pieces to fit together in a holistic manner.

Miranda's catsuit is fine as long as I remember that she alludes to its somewhat unsavory advantages, and that she deliberately uses those. On the other hand, Jack's clothing seems to be extreme for extreme's sake and offers nothing in terms of practicality or explanation.

Armor being "sexy" is somewhat redundant. Armor is made to be functional. Whether it's "sexy" is a matter of individual preference and the extent of customization.

Modifié par Googlesaurus, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:56 .

[FlintlockJazz]

Unseen_77 wrote...


I liked the outfits in both ME 1 and ME 2, but I tend to have liked them more in ME 2 because it made the characters more unique rather then cannon. However M1 armor never bothered me either.

They are "characters" nothing more nothing less, and I'm honestly surprised at all the sexual-phobic (taboo) in this thread being it 2011. I have many female friends and I would guarantee they would rather be dressed in something light, and sexy then have to wear a ton of armor if the could.

If you don't think most females likes to look sexy then I have no idea where you people have been.

Point is it's not a big deal either way, but I prefer the ME 2 unique look it gives the characters. They actually fit those characters personality very well. To each his own though.

See, you're doing it yourself.  'Sexual-phobic'?  No, I just want them to look classy and to actually look like they are going into battle, but for some reason you seem to think that anyone who is tired of yet another game where people are dressed up to look 'sexy' has a phobia or something and that anyone in their right mind should be all for having backsides shoved in their faces.  Miranda looks like she's been dressed up by some fanboy in my opinion and I will state as such.

As to making them look unique and suchlike, most games do that and that's why many games now lack a coherent identity, since their characters end up all over the place.  By having them all wear armour gave the 'game' a unique look and feel.  That's just what I think don't go spreading it around.

As to women wanting to look sexy: a piece of me dies inside when I hear yet another woman state that she doesn't like the armour in a certain game and why can't they make them look 'pretty' like every other game out there.  Fortunately the women I hang around with are more on my side of the divide so it doesn't happen enough to have killed me fully yet (much to many people's disappointment I'm sure).

[InvaderErl]

I do not want everyone wearing power armor, this is not StarCraft. If you want the series to be completely and utterly practical we might as well have people cavorting around in this and call it a day.



But I find that visually boring (at least from the point of view of an RPG).

Does that mean we need the Miranda ASS on full display? No, absolutely not.

Do I think Samara should zip her front up, yes, absolutely.

But ME2 took a step in the right direction with the unique outfits and I sincerely hope we don't (and am fairly sure we WON'T) return to the days of everyone in Colossus X armor.

I'd rather have the crew look like this:



Than this

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:22 .

[Ulzeraj]

OMG I miss Farscape. D=

SC's Marines and Firebats (or wathever they call them on 2) were designed to be infantry so I guess its okay they look like that. Jim Raynor is a Marine and appears in casual on almost every cutscene in SC2. Protoss design and armor were as always scarce but they have that kinetic shield thingy on units.

Selendis was awesome. I didnt believed they could create a female protoss that could actually look good.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:32 .

[InvaderErl]

Ulzeraj wrote...



SC's Marines and Firebats (or wathever they call them on 2) were designed to be infantry so I guess its okay they look like that. Jim Raynor is a Marine and appears in casual on almost every cutscene in SC2. Protoss design and armor were as always scarce but they have that kinetic shield thingy on units.

Of course, which is why I said I find the look boring for an RPG. When you're in an RTS obviously you need to be able to quickly and easily identify troops from a good distance in the "air". Power armor makes that easier.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 janvier 2011 - 07:38 .

[Ulzeraj]

InvaderErl wrote...

Ulzeraj wrote...



SC's Marines and Firebats (or wathever they call them on 2) were designed to be infantry so I guess its okay they look like that. Jim Raynor is a Marine and appears in casual on almost every cutscene in SC2. Protoss design and armor were as always scarce but they have that kinetic shield thingy on units.

Of course, which is why I said I find the look boring for an RPG. When you're in an RTS obviously you need to be able to quickly and easily identify troops from a good distance in the "air". Power armor makes that easier.

That depends on what character we're speaking. I can't imagine Thycus being badass without picturing him smoking with his helm closed. I can't decide who would win a fight him or Zaeed.
Although I have to admit Nova and human Kerrigan were hot even wearing the terran ghost armor.

I dont know if its compare stuff from another game company here (if it is really sorry you can remove it) but since SC2 is RTS and don't compete with ME2: www.youtube.com/watch armor can look cool too but without removing character.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:14 .

[FlintlockJazz]

InvaderErl wrote...

I do not want everyone wearing power armor, this is not StarCraft. If you want the series to be completely and utterly practical we might as well have people cavorting around in this and call it a day.



But I find that visually boring (at least from the point of view of an RPG).

Does that mean we need the Miranda ASS on full display? No, absolutely not.

Do I think Samara should zip her front up, yes, absolutely.

But ME2 took a step in the right direction with the unique outfits and I sincerely hope we don't (and am fairly sure we WON'T) return to the days of everyone in Colossus X armor.

I'd rather have the crew look like this:



Than this

In my opinion the Farscape pic proves the exact opposite: though they are all uniquely dressed there is a running theme throughout all of them that makes it clear they're from the same internally consistent world.  You don't see Aeryn running into combat with her ****** hanging out for example, they wear the same spacesuits when going outside, and they gear up appropriately for how combat plays out in the Farscape universe.  In ME2 you have some people wearing armour and others not, and there is no sense of unity in what they wear or how they gear up for combat, and high heels and exposed ****** just make it look cheap and a sad attempt at superhero style.

As for the Starship Troopers pic there's nothing wrong with it and can look cool when used appropriately and refreshing too.  Currently all RPGs seem to be following the "We are all individuals!" line of outfitting the characters, which ironically leads to them starting to look all the same in my book.  Be nice to play a military RPG where the characters actually look like they're from the military...

That's just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around.

[JKoopman]

InvaderErl wrote...

I do not want everyone wearing power armor, this is not StarCraft. If you want the series to be completely and utterly practical we might as well have people cavorting around in this and call it a day.



But I find that visually boring (at least from the point of view of an RPG).

Actually, since you brought it up, I would love for BioWare to include StarCraft 3-esque Power Armor in the Mass Effect universe. Preferably as a Soldier-exclusive bonus.

[InvaderErl]

FlintlockJazz wrote...


In my opinion the Farscape pic proves the exact opposite: though they are all uniquely dressed there is a running theme throughout all of them that makes it clear they're from the same internally consistent world.  You don't see Aeryn running into combat with her ****** hanging out for example, they wear the same spacesuits when going outside, and they gear up appropriately for how combat plays out in the Farscape universe.  In ME2 you have some people wearing armour and others not, and there is no sense of unity in what they wear or how they gear up for combat, and high heels and exposed ****** just make it look cheap and a sad attempt at superhero style.

They very rarely used any sort of special gear for combat. In fact I can't think of any time they suited up in armor unless it was to sneak into a place.

That is they regularly went up against armored Peacekeepers, Scarrans and any sort of nasty yet never wore more than their clothing even though they had multiple oppurtunities to procure armor and from a totally pragmatic and realistic point of view SHOULD have.

This feels like a case where you're excusing it in the case of Farscape but railing against it where ME2 is concerned.

FlintlockJazz wrote...
  Be nice to play a military RPG where the characters actually look like they're from the military...

That's just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around.

Mass Effect is no more a military RPG than Star Wars was a military drama.

They both fall into the realm of Space Opera.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:48 .

[Ulzeraj]

JKoopman wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I do not want everyone wearing power armor, this is not StarCraft. If you want the series to be completely and utterly practical we might as well have people cavorting around in this and call it a day.

** snip pic **

But I find that visually boring (at least from the point of view of an RPG).

Actually, since you brought it up, I would love for BioWare to include StarCraft 3-esque Power Armor in the Mass Effect universe. Preferably as a Soldier-exclusive bonus.

Like Jim Raynor's armor? On the cutscenes they look like the size of a Ymir mech.

[JKoopman]

Ulzeraj wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

I do not want everyone wearing power armor, this is not StarCraft. If you want the series to be completely and utterly practical we might as well have people cavorting around in this and call it a day.

** snip pic **

But I find that visually boring (at least from the point of view of an RPG).

Actually, since you brought it up, I would love for BioWare to include StarCraft 3-esque Power Armor in the Mass Effect universe. Preferably as a Soldier-exclusive bonus.

Like Jim Raynor's armor? On the cutscenes they look like the size of a Ymir mech.

Yes. And yes.

[FlintlockJazz]

InvaderErl wrote...

They very rarely used any sort of special gear for combat. In fact I can't think of any time they suited up in armor unless it was to sneak into a place.

That is they regularly went up against armored Peacekeepers, Scarrans and any sort of nasty yet never wore more than their clothing even though they had multiple oppurtunities to procure armor.

This feels like a case where you're excusing it in the case of Farscape but railing against it where ME2 is concerned.

No, they dressed for how combat worked in that universe.  In that universe power armour isn't prevalent, personal shields are not commonplace, characters don't run around half naked, high heels are not practical to combat, etc etc.  Internal consistency.  This feels like a case where you're trying to justify ME2's (few) failings (see what I did there?  I was just putting forward my opinion to your interpretations of the pictures you showed).  Consider this piece I found on Science Fantasy:

If the magic is tightly defined and the interactions between magic and science are carefully thought out, then it can be just as realistic as any moderately hard SF with one or two bits of imaginary science.  The magic just fills the niche of 'rubber science'.  A great example of highly realistic science fantasy is the GURPS Technomancer setting, which blends "technothriller" technology with rigorously explored magic, and addresses all the social and political implications of industrial-scale magic in a scientific and rational society.

In short, I'm not asking for it to be hyper realistic, I'm asking for it to be consistent and to adopt a style instead of being all over the shop.

InvaderErl wrote...

FlintlockJazz wrote...
  Be nice to play a military RPG where the characters actually look like they're from the military...

That's just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around.

Mass Effect is no more a military RPG than Star Wars was a military drama.

They both fall into the realm of Space Opera.

Star Wars was science fantasy end of the spectrum.  ME is supposedly closer to the other end of the spectrum of Space Opera.

Shepard is a space marine.  The first ME tried very hard to come across as a military-style RPG, not as a full-on realistic one but in style.  The second should have gone for a paramilitary style, with them wearing proper armour but looking like mercenaries and independents, instead they look like the Justice League.

I'm gonna go now, need to finished my current playthrough of ME2.

EDIT:  Oh just remembered, before I go this is what I would have really loved, though I do realise it is unrealistic to hope for something like this to be implemented since it would require so much more effort and resources, but still one can dream.  From a post I put on the starting weapons thread:

I propose instead that it's role is altered: Shepard (and all teammates,
I'm pro-armour for teammates) wear armour when he can and gets his
assault rifle in those cases, but in places like the Citadel and Illium he
doesn't get to walk around in full battle gear, since it draws attention
and is supposedly illegal (yes I know Spectres are supposed to be able
to carry weapons anywhere, but Shepard isn't one at the start of ME2 or
even ME1 and yet he can still carry guns everywhere, and that Spectre
thing was just a blag for gameplay purposes anyway).  Instead he walks
around in casual clothes (and yes that means Miranda can then wear her
latex pants she loves so much, I'll still insist she would wear armour
when appropriate) that has less defense but so does his enemies, and
instead of the assault rifle he is limited to the pistol (and perhaps
SMG), and so is his enemies, changing the style of play depending on the
setting he is currently in.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 14 janvier 2011 - 09:05 .

[RAF1940]

InvaderErl wrote...

I do not want everyone wearing power armor, this is not StarCraft. If you want the series to be completely and utterly practical we might as well have people cavorting around in this and call it a day.



But I find that visually boring (at least from the point of view of an RPG).

Does that mean we need the Miranda ASS on full display? No, absolutely not.

Do I think Samara should zip her front up, yes, absolutely.

But ME2 took a step in the right direction with the unique outfits and I sincerely hope we don't (and am fairly sure we WON'T) return to the days of everyone in Colossus X armor.

I'd rather have the crew look like this:



Than this

I agree with this . Although, SC2 is quite fun .

[Ragnarok521]

Okay, okay, think of it this way.

You're going into a hostile enemy stronghold, right? The environment is just as inhospitable as its inhabitants. I'm talking things like no atmosphere or extreme temperatures. Are you going to wear your Casual Friday clothes when you try to storm the place or are you going to go in with something that can protect you from shrapnel, blunt force trauma, extreme temperatures, etc.? And don't say shields, because those things are likely to fail as soon as the going gets tough.

I'm okay with the characters having some unique appearances but they need to fit with the situation to keep the whole deal cohesive. Why not have some specialized Cerberus-made suits for Miranda and Jacob while Jack has some armor you'd see used by freelancers, pirates and the like with some things etched into it or something. Just some proper, practical attire for everyone.

Modifié par Ragnarok521, 14 janvier 2011 - 09:25 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Stensig wrote...

are you even reading what in saying in my other posts. I think armor for pure biotics are unnecessary, and there are no such on the enemy site, the closest is a vanguard, and they are actually pure "fist fighters" so to them armor is especially important. I agree Miranda might need another form of armor when off ship, but i think its ok with Jack.

Armor is NEVER unnecessary. You can ask any one who's ever been in combat.

Now personally, I dislike combat in any attire that seems inappropriate for it. Cleavge, high heels, no armor whatsoever = fail. And going in space without a space suit = double fail.

ME1 >>>> ME2 in that regard. Altough Mirandas casual outfit was nice. And that "sexy" dancer outfit is HORRIBLE.

But ME2 took a step in the right direction with the unique outfits and I
sincerely hope we don't (and am fairly sure we WON'T) return to the
days of everyone in Colossus X armor.

THEN DON'T EQUIP THEM WITH IT.
Now, wasn't that a simple solution?


Some of us want matching outfits you know. Makes them look like a profession team.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 14 janvier 2011 - 09:41 .

[InvaderErl]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

No, they dressed for how combat worked in that universe.  In that universe power armour isn't prevalent, personal shields are not commonplace, characters don't run around half naked, high heels are not practical to combat, etc etc.  Internal consistency. 
This feels like a case where you're trying to justify ME2's (few) failings (see what I did there?  I was just putting forward my opinion to your interpretations of the pictures you showed). 

Far from it. 

Firstly, I've already railed numerous times in this thread against the sexualized elements of Miranda and Samara's outfit. That is a flaw and not one I'll justify but I don't see any reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater so to speak.

I actually like Jack's (or lackthereof) because it fits her character and is distinctive.

However, that being said and this is where we'll disagree, I found the ME2 outfits except for the aforementioned two and even then they're far from unsalvagable to be full of personality, consistent with the universe and appealing. Aside from KoTOR after I modded it so that I could keep everyone in default outfits, this is Bioware's best looking party from a visual standpoint.

Biotics as I established earlier in the thread have almost always worn less armor. The light armor, the Commando outfits and Benezia attest to this and appear to offer no more protection than Samara or Miranda's outfit (and in Benezia's case are actually better since neither one of them manages to match her cleavage window).

It also makes sense that Thane an assassin would wear less armor and be used to fighting so. In fact aside from Samara, Miranda and Jack (the 3 most powerful Biotics on the team who conversely wear the least amount of protection - again consistent with ME1's biotics in this regard) the team wears appropiate outfits save for the helmets (which I won't defend).

It also seems unreasonable to me to assume that every single person that engages in combat in the Mass Effect universe must do so in hardsuits when the setting itself is fairly diverse. They don't do that in our world, they didn't even do that in ME1 (you did fight enemies you were just equipped in regular clothing).

I find the ME1 approach to be visually ugly and I always have. You talked about a superhero motif in ME2 but it was when everyone was wearing the best gear in ME1, the Collosus outfit that I felt the most ridiculous - as if we were some kind of absurd power rangers team with matching underwear.

But that's really an issue with ME1's linear inventory system than anything else.

FlintlockJazz wrote...

Star Wars was science fantasy end of the spectrum.  ME is supposedly closer to the other end of the spectrum of Space Opera.

Regardless, biotics were established as wearing less armor (suits that could double as fetish gear)

The only change I feel necessary at the moment is to de-sexy Miranda's outfit somewhat and zipper up Samara's cleavage (still think Jack's look veers more towards establishing a character than being 'sexy') and get appropiate helmets and hardsuits while in hostile environments. Other than that and adding passive items and such I am very satisfied with this direction.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 14 janvier 2011 - 09:55 .

[Phonantiphon]

InvaderErl wrote...
SOME STUFF

At the risk of getting done over for being a pervert by the conservatives, why should Miranda's uniform be "de-sexied"?
Also, Biotics are analogous to magic users - so I assume that you also disapprove of Morrigan, and would like to see her "properly" dressed?
Magic users, in any gaming system do not traditionally wear armour and do more often than not where some fairly elaborate/revealing/whatever clothing, so why should this be any different?
Personally I think your opinion of Jack, far from showing equanimity on the subject, simply comes across as a double standard. Jack is not remotely "sexy" or indeed "attractive" and therefore I assume is not "threatening", whereas Miranda and I assume Samara - although I have not got that far yet - are in fact everything that Jack is not and are therefore deemed to be overly provoking with regards to their uniforms...
...Does this attitude to female sexuality that you have extend IRL or is it just limited to games...?

[Gleym]

So, let's just sum it up: On one side there are those of us who think there should be plausible armor that makes sense given the setting and circumstance. It can look sleek and sexy, but not at the cost of common sense and believability in the setting.

On the other side, there's the other group of people who think this is perfectly alright..

..because it 'adds unique character style'. Oh wait, no, cause people wouldn't be so quick to defend something this retarded because it's a gender they DON'T want to see freakin' ****** on. Despite the fact that, ironically enough, the gasmask he's wearing even has more going for it than either Miranda or Jack.

Modifié par Gleym, 15 janvier 2011 - 01:08 .

[ZLurps]

Gleym wrote...

So, let's just sum it up: On one side there are those of us who think there should be plausible armor that makes sense given the setting and circumstance. It can look sleek and sexy, but not at the cost of common sense and believability in the setting.

On the other side, there's the other group of people who think this is perfectly alright..

..because it 'adds unique character style'. Oh wait, no, cause people wouldn't be so quick to defend something this retarded because it's a gender they DON'T want to see freakin' ****** on. Despite the fact that, ironically enough, the gasmask he's wearing even has more going for it than either Miranda or Jack.

:D:D

Now that saved my day!

I really don't have anything against how squad mates armors are in ME2 but that's because I don't pay attention into what they wear in combat.
I sure can understand why so many people want different kind of armors for squad mates in ME3. And why not? If someone doesn't like them, they are optional.

[Phonantiphon]

Gleym wrote...
SOME OTHER STUFF.

Why do you people keep bringing ****** into it?
Why are you so angry?
Why does it even really matter, seriously, so they have different clothes, some of which are skintight, some of which show some cleavage, some of which offend your sensibilities about what you'd wear into a battle in the year 3259 if you were a woman.
It appears from some posts that if you are a character who has been created to look "sexy" you have to wear a duffel coat and pillowcase over your head but if you're Jack and you look like a dog's breakfast you can get away with nipple clamps.
I can't work out if you are morally outraged, outraged on a "it's not what would happen IRL" level, or both...
...either way it seems increasingly apparent that this thread in common with many on here has now argued itself round in a circle.
The fact that it's now 11 pages + long is incredible in itself, and for me the fact that I've even bothered posting in it at all is frankly bewildering... I should just let it drop but it's actually quite entertaining. 

[Gleym]

I like how you didn't bother to read a word of what I just said. Good job.

[Babli]

Gleym wrote...

So, let's just sum it up: On one side there are those of us who think there should be plausible armor that makes sense given the setting and circumstance. It can look sleek and sexy, but not at the cost of common sense and believability in the setting.

On the other side, there's the other group of people who think this is perfectly alright..
*epic pic*
..because it 'adds unique character style'. Oh wait, no, cause people wouldn't be so quick to defend something this retarded because it's a gender they DON'T want to see freakin' ****** on. Despite the fact that, ironically enough, the gasmask he's wearing even has more going for it than either Miranda or Jack.

Nice, "unique personality armor" is seriously one of the worst argument I´ve seen on any forum ever
I really dont know what went wrong in Bioware when they thought that almost naked jack will be fine with mask in space. Can you imagine Jack, Miranda or Samara in first ME? I really cant.  I always end up on missions with Tali and Garrus who are always wearing proper armor (in Tali´s case, suit)

[Phonantiphon]

Gleym wrote...

I like how you didn't bother to read a word of what I just said. Good job.

Oh no I did read it, but to be honest I was more impressed that you feel strongly enough about to actually mock up a parody picture.
Kudos for that, it gave me a smile. I can't fault your resolve or the depth of your feeling on the subject of the moral terpitude inherent in the ME universe.
But good luck with that. 

[Rogue Unit]

I hope they keep the ME2 style uniforms for ME3, and for those who don't like it, guess you'll be stuck using characters that are wearing armor. Everyone wins. (Garrus, Grunt, etc.)