603 réponses à ce sujet

[InvaderErl]

JKoopman wrote...


I'm not speaking strictly of her green skin, although I do think purple is a far more fetching color on her. Simply put, ME2's "improved" lighting engine makes her face look like it's made out of sandpaper, and I sorely miss how sexy she looked in her Asari Commando outfit (which I must point out managed to be both aethstetically attractive AND appear to offer full-body protection).

I love you're complaining that the sick character.... looks sick.

JKoopman wrote...


If she did feel that her biotics alone were suffient to protect her in a combat situation, she clearly thought wrong. So where does that leave your argument...?

Shepard kills Thresher Maws, Gunships and baby Reapers. What she was wearing would have made no diifferent. My point still stands.

JKoopman wrote...
In any case, I would counter that, as she had an entire squad of Asari Commandos with her as well as assumed that Shepard would be killed in the trap she had prepared in the Hot Labs, she felt she had no need to bring along combat attire.

And none of her Asari commandos were wearing hardsuits so my point still stands. I'm amused how many hoops we're now jumping through to justify Benezia while affording ME2 no such slack.

JKoopman wrote...

That they use their biotic barriers as ADDED protection does not mean that they view biotic barriers as the only REQUIRED protection. My Sentinel Shepard routinely used a biotic barrier in addition to his full Onyx armor, as did Wrex when he was equiped with heavy Battlemaster armor. Clearly Wrex doesn't believe that his biotics alone are sufficient to protect him...

And?

The commandos/Benezia still were not wearing hardsuits. One does not preclude the other.

We know that Samara and Miranda's outfits are made out of more than latex or any such "regular" material. Hell, Samara's suit looks to be made out of fabrics TOUGHER than what the commandos are sporting.

JKoopman wrote...
No, we don't. As I pointed out, both of the later examples you used were of sealed full-body Light Armor no different than what Shepard could equip and most certainly weren't "fetish outfits" by any stretch of the imagination. That it's less bulky and robust than Heavy Armor does not negate that fact that it's still armor designed to protect the wearer, not casual civilian clothes.

There are no cases in ME1 that "establish" biotics didn't need hardsuits. Only examples of biotics either not having access to armor or being caught in an unexpected combat situation while out of armor. And as each and every example ends with them being easily dispatched at the hands of Shepard and his properly armored squad, I'd say a little additional armor probably would've been a good idea.

That is not a hardsuit.

Ashley comments as such.

Therefore Biotics can supplant the need for armor with biotics if they so chose.

And all you need on this



is a Gimp mask to complete the look.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 janvier 2011 - 05:57 .

[Mecha Tengu]

oh come on you spoilsports



don't ruin my samara bazooka eye candy

[hitorihanzo]

JKoopman wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

LOL @ someone thinking Jacob's outfit is sexual. Ahahahahahahahahaha! Jack, I understand, but she's crazy, and dresses like because she has absolutely no regard for galactic standards of morality and propriety. Her outfit plays directly into her character. Miranda dresses provactively because she looks good and she knows it. Again, it plays directly into her character. I have absolutely no problems with any of them. This game isn't for kids, and if pixels and cgi get a rise out of you, then that tells us a lot about your love life.

And ink on a page shouldn't get a "rise" out of people, yet Playboy sells so well (and I doubt people are buying it for the articles).

Kind of a tangent, but I hate it when people use the "lol its just pixels" argument; like people aren't allowed to find videogame characters sexy or attractive without being mentally unstable virgins.

Actually, that's exactly the case because if you see enough of the real thing, pixels pale in comparison.  Human nature.  Your argument about Playboy is a tad misplaced seeing as Mass Effect doesn't contain any hardcore nudity.  Playboy does.  A better comparison would be going to a bar and seeing a scantily clad woman.  That's basically all you're seeing in Mass Effect. 

Date a woman that doesn't play video games, have her over to your house while you're playing, and tell her that Miranda looks hot in her outfit.  She won't call you back.

[Nooneyouknow13]

hitorihanzo wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

hitorihanzo wrote...

LOL @ someone thinking Jacob's outfit is sexual. Ahahahahahahahahaha! Jack, I understand, but she's crazy, and dresses like because she has absolutely no regard for galactic standards of morality and propriety. Her outfit plays directly into her character. Miranda dresses provactively because she looks good and she knows it. Again, it plays directly into her character. I have absolutely no problems with any of them. This game isn't for kids, and if pixels and cgi get a rise out of you, then that tells us a lot about your love life.

And ink on a page shouldn't get a "rise" out of people, yet Playboy sells so well (and I doubt people are buying it for the articles).

Kind of a tangent, but I hate it when people use the "lol its just pixels" argument; like people aren't allowed to find videogame characters sexy or attractive without being mentally unstable virgins.

Actually, that's exactly the case because if you see enough of the real thing, pixels pale in comparison.  Human nature.  Your argument about Playboy is a tad misplaced seeing as Mass Effect doesn't contain any hardcore nudity.  Playboy does.  A better comparison would be going to a bar and seeing a scantily clad woman.  That's basically all you're seeing in Mass Effect. 

Date a woman that doesn't play video games, have her over to your house while you're playing, and tell her that Miranda looks hot in her outfit.  She won't call you back.

She wouldn't call you back because you'd be neglecting her and boring the crap out of her, not because you thought a video game character, who uses the likeness of real actress at that, is hot.

You're also completely missing the point that published pornographic photos are "flawless" - any flaws such as off color skin patches, stretch marks, large moles, etc are airbrushed out.  THis is why most men and women will continue to view pornogrpahy no matter how much they're getting, because it presents an unattainable ideal.

[JKoopman]

InvaderErl wrote...

I love you're complaining that the sick character.... looks sick.

I'm not complaining that the sick character looks "sick". I'm complaining that ME2's harsher lighting engine makes her look like garbage. She looked "sick" in ME1 when she had green skin as well, yet still looked magnitudes better than she does in ME2.





Note the differences.

InvaderErl wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

If she did feel that her biotics alone were suffient to protect her in a combat situation, she clearly thought wrong. So where does that leave your argument...?

Shepard kills Thresher Maws, Gunships and baby Reapers. What she was wearing would have made no diifferent. My point still stands.

Your point was that biotics need only biotic barriers to protect themselves. As not only do those barriers fail to protect them adequately against Shepard's bullets but don't protect them AT ALL against heat, cold, radiation, knives, fists or vacuum, I would say that my point still stands. Common sense says, biotic barrier or no, you put on armor when you're going into combat.

InvaderErl wrote...

JKoopman wrote...
In any case, I would counter that, as she had an entire squad of Asari Commandos with her as well as assumed that Shepard would be killed in the trap she had prepared in the Hot Labs, she felt she had no need to bring along combat attire.

And none of her Asari commandos were wearing hardsuits so my point still stands. I'm amused how many hoops we're now jumping through to justify Benezia while affording ME2 no such slack.

JKoopman wrote...

That they use their biotic barriers as ADDED protection does not mean that they view biotic barriers as the only REQUIRED protection. My Sentinel Shepard routinely used a biotic barrier in addition to his full Onyx armor, as did Wrex when he was equiped with heavy Battlemaster armor. Clearly Wrex doesn't believe that his biotics alone are sufficient to protect him...

And?

The commandos/Benezia still were not wearing hardsuits. One does not preclude the other.

Then you and I seem to have wildly differing ideas of what constitutes "armor". Just because they're not wearing heavy armor doesn't mean they're not wearing armor all the same. Heavier armor may offer more layers of armor and/or more durable materials (and consequentially is bulkier and slower), but ME1's light armor still affords a basic level of protection above and beyond civilian clothing and certainly doesn't leave large patches of skin exposed for "style".

The only real difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor models in ME1 seems to be the addition of shoulder pads and thicker arm protection.




Are you going to argue that heavy armor is therefor fetish gear and not armor?

InvaderErl wrote...

We know that Samara and Miranda's outfits are made out of more than latex or any such "regular" material. Hell, Samara's suit looks to be made out of fabrics TOUGHER than what the commandos are sporting.

How do we know that? Because it suits your argument? Because ME2's engine allows for better bump mapping and more polygons so BioWare can add more detail to each character's attire? It sounds like you're "jumping through to justify [Samara] while affording [ME1] no such slack."

InvaderErl wrote...



That is not a hardsuit.

Ashley comments as such.

Therefore Biotics can supplant the need for armor with biotics if they so chose.

It looks to be as much a "hardsuit" as this.



(Which is Medium Armor, by the way.)

I'm sorry, I don't recall any specific instance where Ashley commented on the Asari Commando's armor, but frankly I don't put much stock in the opinion of Miss Williams after some of the other boneheaded things that have come out of her mouth.

Modifié par JKoopman, 15 janvier 2011 - 07:06 .

[InvaderErl]

JKoopman wrote...



I'm not complaining that the sick character looks "sick". I'm complaining that ME2's harsher lighting engine makes her look like garbage. She looked "sick" in ME1 when she had green skin as well, yet still looked magnitudes better than she does in ME2.





Note the differences.

One is sick, one is not.

JKoopman wrote...

Your point was that biotics need only biotic barriers to protect themselves. As not only do those barriers fail to protect them adequately against Shepard's bullets but don't protect them AT ALL against heat, cold, radiation, knives, fists or vacuum, I would say that my point still stands. Common sense says, biotic barrier or no, you put on armor when you're going into combat.

Benezia did not, her troops did not.

JKoopman wrote...

Then you and I seem to have wildly differing ideas of what constitutes "armor". Just because they're not wearing heavy armor doesn't mean they're not wearing armor all the same. Heavier armor may offer more layers of armor and/or more durable materials (and consequentially is bulkier and slower), but ME1's light armor still affords a basic level of protection above and beyond civilian clothing and certainly doesn't leave large patches of skin exposed for "style".

Ya know... Except the mouth.

I guess baddies in the ME universe graduated from the same place that people in the Robocop universe learned to shoot.

JKoopman wrote...
The only real difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor models in ME1 seems to be the addition of shoulder pads and thicker arm protection.




Are you going to argue that heavy armor is therefor fetish gear and not armor?

The torso section also appears to be reinforced.


Anyway,  that wasn't my argument (Medium Armor) if you want to argue whether or not that's Fetish gear you can go ahead but again I never said that.

However, this yes borders on fetish gear, with its bra and panties look and its made worse that its the BEST armor in the game.



and the Commando outfit is very obviously fetishistic with.

and Benezia has a boob window that would put any comic book character to shame.



This is despite Liara's comment that Benezia could keep herself alive for a while, obviously using her biotics.

JKoopman wrote...

How do we know that? Because it suits your argument? Because ME2's engine allows for better bump mapping and more polygons so BioWare can add more detail to each character's attire? It sounds like you're "jumping through to justify [Samara] while affording [ME1] no such slack."

Not at all, I give ME1 slack in this regard. I only ask that you take off the nostalgia goggles when it comes to the predecessor.

JKoopman wrote...

It looks to be as much a "hardsuit" as this.



(Which is Medium Armor, by the way.)

I'm sorry, I don't recall any specific instance where Ashley commented on the Asari Commando's armor, but frankly I don't put much stock in the opinion of Miss Williams after some of the other boneheaded things that have come out of her mouth.

Ash and Kaidan have a conversation about Asari Commando gear and Ash comments she prefers wearing armor to relying on speed.

Oh and the commando suit obviously does not have the plating that the medium armor does so its not a valid comparison.

Again ME1 established Biotics do not need hardsuits to be combat capable. You're arguing against the game at this point.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 janvier 2011 - 07:14 .

[JKoopman]

hitorihanzo wrote...

Date a woman that doesn't play video games, have her over to your house while you're playing, and tell her that Miranda looks hot in her outfit.  She won't call you back.

I once shot a girlfriend in the stomache and she left me soon after. It must be because she doesn't like guns.

See how that argument kinda fails?

[Zlarm]

I don't care what they wear in the ship but everyone should be wearing armour on missions (yes that includes biotics).

[HyenaLobo]

Gleym wrote...



What UNIFORM does Jack wear? She wears cargo pants and a freaking BELT across her nipples. I swear to god, just for that rationale of yours I want to smash a wall.

Wow, let me take a step back from my general retard moment and enjoy these highly protected armored members, running around the same environments, in the same conditions as you said, without freaking helmets on?

Lets not mention people are trying to apply the same laws of logic to a world that is already 200 years from now, but has also been influenced by prothean science. So lets just skip element zero, alien species and the fact that there are even kinetic barriers at all and yell about who is more right, when you obviously know you are not wrong.

[JKoopman]

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

I'm not complaining that the sick character looks "sick". I'm complaining that ME2's harsher lighting engine makes her look like garbage. She looked "sick" in ME1 when she had green skin as well, yet still looked magnitudes better than she does in ME2.





Note the differences.[/quote]

One is sick, one is not.

[/quote]

Shiala's "sickness" in ME2 is that her skin pigmentation changed back to green and her biotics became unstable. Explain to me how the two images cannot be compared.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Your point was that biotics need only biotic barriers to protect themselves. As not only do those barriers fail to protect them adequately against Shepard's bullets but don't protect them AT ALL against heat, cold, radiation, knives, fists or vacuum, I would say that my point still stands. Common sense says, biotic barrier or no, you put on armor when you're going into combat.[/quote]

Benezia did not, her troops did not. [/quote]

Benezia did not. Her troops most certainly DID, as I've shown no less than three times already. Simply because you say a thing does not make it true.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Then you and I seem to have wildly differing ideas of what constitutes "armor". Just because they're not wearing heavy armor doesn't mean they're not wearing armor all the same. Heavier armor may offer more layers of armor and/or more durable materials (and consequentially is bulkier and slower), but ME1's light armor still affords a basic level of protection above and beyond civilian clothing and certainly doesn't leave large patches of skin exposed for "style".[/quote]

Ya know... Except the mouth.[/quote]

Ya know... except that you can totally close that up. Nice try though. And I'll take an exposed mouth over an exposed head, chest, arms and abdomin anyway.

You're grasping at straws. Even real modern armored combat helmets don't cover a soldier's whole face.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
[quote]JKoopman wrote...
The only real difference between Light Armor and Heavy Armor models in ME1 seems to be the addition of shoulder pads and thicker arm protection.




Are you going to argue that heavy armor is therefor fetish gear and not armor?[/quote]


The torso section also appears to be reinforced.[/quote]

If you say so...

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

Anyway,  that wasn't my argument (Medium Armor) if you want to argue whether or not that's Fetish gear you can go ahead but again I never said that.[/quote]

You argued that Light Armor was "fetish gear". Since Medium and Heavy Armor is basically Light Armor with (bigger) shoulderpads and some extra arm protection, I fail to see how your argument can't logically be extended to the later.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
However, this yes borders on fetish gear, with its bra and panties look and its made worse that its the BEST armor in the game.



and the Commando outfit is very obviously fetishistic with.

[/quote]

There you go again with that. You know, there were 15 other armor styles that you could put Liara in other than just Colossus. But way to use the one armor style that kinda-sorta-in-a-half-assed-way supports your point of view.

Why don't you head on over to the Mass Effect wiki and pick out something different for a change?

And the Asari Commando outfit is not "fetishistic" in any way. It's a mesh bodysuit with "leather" padding and polymer/armor plates on top. It's as much a "fetish" costume as Medium Onyx armor.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
and Benezia has a boob window that would put any comic book character to shame.



This is despite Liara's comment that Benezia could keep herself alive for a while, obviously using her biotics.

[/quote]

No more of a "boob window" than Samara. But unlike Samara, she's not intended to be a front-line fighter.

Besides, as I've already established, Benezia is an Asari Matriarch and advisor to Saren who's ostensibly on Noveria purely for business and has a whole squad of armored Asari Commandos escorting her for protection. She has no reason to be in heavy armor plating, so she can wear whatever Asari fashions she pleases. Benezia is not proof that biotics don't need armor.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
Ash and Kaidan have a conversation about Asari Commando gear and Ash comments she prefers wearing armor to relying on speed.[/quote]

Likely alluding to her preference being heavily armored (as Ashley does wear Heavy Armor) and slow as opposed to lightly armored and agile, NOT armored in combat as opposed to unarmored in combat. But read it however you choose.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
Oh and the commando suit obviously does not have the plating that the medium armor does so its not a valid comparison.[/quote]



I see no less than three layers of material covering her shoulders and arms, not counting a probable layer of mesh underneath that, which is comparable to the Medium Onyx armor and she appears to have additional chest protection compared to the later as well as much more coverage on her legs. I don't see how it's not a valid comparison.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
Again ME1 established Biotics do not need hardsuits to be combat capable. You're arguing against the game at this point. [/quote]

Again, just because you say a thing does not make it true. The only thing I'm arguing against is your peculiar interperetation of the Mass Effect universe.

Modifié par JKoopman, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:12 .

[Ryzaki]

*sighs*

Did anyone even bother reading the codex on Kinetic barriers? I mean really?

They do not protect against the elements.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 janvier 2011 - 08:03 .

[Ryzaki]

Here codex on kinetic barriers.

Kinetic barriers, colloquially called "shields", provide protection against most mass accelerator weapons. Whether on a starship or a soldier's suit of armor, the basic principle remains the same.



Kinetic barriers are repulsive mass effect fields projected from tiny emitters. These shields safely deflect small objects traveling at rapid velocities. This affords protection from bullets and other dangerous projectiles, but still allows the user to sit down without knocking away their chair.



The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation.

Now enough with the oh they'll be fine because of their barriers in the cold/heat.

[JKoopman]

HyenaLobo wrote...

Gleym wrote...



What UNIFORM does Jack wear? She wears cargo pants and a freaking BELT across her nipples. I swear to god, just for that rationale of yours I want to smash a wall.

Wow, let me take a step back from my general retard moment and enjoy these highly protected armored members, running around the same environments, in the same conditions as you said, without freaking helmets on?

Lets not mention people are trying to apply the same laws of logic to a world that is already 200 years from now, but has also been influenced by prothean science. So lets just skip element zero, alien species and the fact that there are even kinetic barriers at all and yell about who is more right, when you obviously know you are not wrong.

Speak for yourself. I had my squad in helmets at all times whenever on a mission.

[Uszi]

Right.  

The argument presented in a tangent conversation was:  "Playboy contains hardcore nudity and therefore continues to appeal to people with mature sexual desires for members of the opposite sex."

First point: Playboy doesn't really contain "hardcore" nudity.  Playboy contains much more tastful nudity than a magazine like Hustler or Nugget or Swank Mag.  So I find some fault in your argument there.

Also, your argument appears to be: "The more hardcore a digital image, the more understandable it is to be turned on by it." 

Therefore you are saying: 

"It's more understandable to be turned on by the depictions of people urinating on each other contained in Nugget than it is to see depictions of naked women in Playboy than it is to see depictions of scantily clad women in Sports Illustrated:  Swimsuit Edition than it is to see depictions of fully clothed women, etc, etc."

If you disagree, and say, "Well, I mean, it only goes up to a certain point, and urination fetishes only affect some people," then the orginal argument, as stated, is an incoherent mess, limited in a compeletely arbitrary manner.  A more logical argument would serve the you better.

Second point: an example of "pixels and cgi" that "get a rise out of you" that are not "hardcore nudity," would also shake your argument.

Exhibit A:


Did that get a rise out of you?
Is it more/less/the same to get a rise out of this, and not a video game character?
How is that different then a video game character?
 Explain.

Date a woman that doesn't play video games, have her over to your house
while you're playing, and tell her that Miranda looks hot in her
outfit.  She won't call you back

This argument also makes no sense at all.

I'm pretty sure throwing those kind of compliments after any woman other than your new girlfriend is going to offend her, be the complimentee a flesh and blood person in the room, a TV representation of a real person, or a CGI representation of a fake person.  It's also pretty immature to say **** like that to your girlfriend in general.  What, exactly, would you be hoping to accomplish by this? 

Also, this seems like either an extremely recently formed relationship, in which case, reread the above paragraph, or the "girlfriend" is a completely fickle ****.  I'd understand anyone getting upset.  Not sure I understand someone ending a longterm relationship over soemthing like that.  

Neither of the "new relationship" or "fickle ****" conclusions really strengthen this girlfriend example.

A much better argument would be, "Tell one of your guy friends that Miranda looks good in her argument."

The problem is that now we see that even the better version of that argument is going to be extremely weak because it's contingent on the friend's predisposed position in this argument.  He could hypothetically wind up agreeing to either side. 

Then we realize that the girlfriend in the first, inferior example, is subject to the exact same predisposed attitude as a guy friend would be.

The author has merely distracted us with this angery girl friend image.

Therefore this girlfriend argument is an extremely obvious strawman.  She could get pissed for any number of reasons and "never call you again."

Try again, gents.

Modifié par Uszi, 15 janvier 2011 - 09:06 .

[InvaderErl]

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Shiala's "sickness" in ME2 is that her skin pigmentation changed back to green and her biotics became unstable. Explain to me how the two images cannot be compared.[/quote]

Hm, you know what fair enough - I'll retract that statement.

If you want to make a in-universe explanation say stress - but the ME2 lighting system is better.

[quote]JKoopman wrote...
Benezia did not. Her troops most certainly DID, as I've shown no less than three times already. Simply because you say a thing does not make it true.[/quote]

They don't have hardsuits or at the very leats their protection is negligble, Kaidan says their lightly protected and he's in LIGHT ARMOR.

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Ya know... except that you can totally close that up. Nice try though. And I'll take an exposed mouth over an exposed head, chest, arms and abdomin anyway.[/quote]

Except your team never does this unless their in a vacuum oh and now its all of a sudden okay to have exposed flesh because it suits your point?

[quote]JKoopman wrote...
You're grasping at straws. Even real modern armored combat helmets don't cover a soldier's whole face.[/quote]

Yes, because modern technology has been jump started 200 years by alien technology. Sorry its an invalid comparison.

[quote]JKoopman wrote...


If you say so...[/quote]



I do, its pretty visible, there's metal strands across the torso. That's really neither here or there in any case.


[quote]InvaderErl wrote...


You argued that Light Armor was "fetish gear". Since Medium and Heavy Armor is basically Light Armor with (bigger) shoulderpads and some extra arm protection, I fail to see how your argument can't logically be extended to the later.[/quote]


[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
However, this yes borders on fetish gear, with its bra and panties look and its made worse that its the BEST armor in the game.



and the Commando outfit is very obviously fetishistic with. [/quote]


[quote]JKoopman wrote...

There you go again with that. You know, there were 15 other armor styles that you could put Liara in other than just Colossus. But way to use the one armor style that kinda-sorta-in-a-half-assed-way supports your point of view.


Why don't you head on over to the Mass Effect wiki and pick out something different for a change?[/quote]

The reason I use THAT armor is its somehow one of the most powerful suits in the game yet its very light, literally skin tight.

Which is why I said earlier that Samara and Miranda not just wearing whatever they happened to pick out of the wash that day as you seem to be implicating. My position is that that their suits despite not being hardsuits are likely made out of harder and tougher materials since they obviously can take gunfire and keep going.

Your argument has thus far been CHARACTERS MUST WEAR PLATED ARMOR (hardsuits ) TO PROTECT THEMSELVES

and I've pointed to numerous characters in game who have worn light suits or in two cases what visibly appear to be LEATHER catsuits from the first game yet are combat capable and guess what they were BIOTICS.

The only characters in Mass Effect 2 who do not wear hardsuits of some kind are surprisesurprise BIOTICS. Hmm, perhaps there is a connection.

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

And the Asari Commando outfit is not "fetishistic" in any way. It's a mesh bodysuit with "leather" padding and polymer/armor plates on top. It's as much a "fetish" costume as Medium Onyx armor.[/quote]

Very forgiving of ME1 again with no room for slack whereas ME2 is concerned I see.

[quote]No more of a "boob window" than Samara. But unlike Samara, she's not intended to be a front-line fighter.[/quote]

Samara gives it a good try but Benezia has her seriously beat. In any case I don't want to argue astethics as I mentioned before and this argument has already started to turn that way.


[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Besides, as I've already established, Benezia is an Asari Matriarch and advisor to Saren who's ostensibly on Noveria purely for business and has a whole squad of armored Asari Commandos escorting her for protection. She has no reason to be in heavy armor plating, so she can wear whatever Asari fashions she pleases. Benezia is not proof that biotics don't need armor.
[/quote]

Benezia was there to put down a Rachni uprising. She arrived AFTER Peak 15 went silent to take control of the situation. She knew there were going to be Rachni and she anticipated possible intereference (hence the Geth defenses outside the base) and she had forewarning of Shepard's arrival. She even anticipated his possible survival when she posted Ventralis to try and kill him. If hardsuits were the vital necessity to combat that you're proposing there are NUMEROUS reasons she should have been wearing one, and Shepard is only one of them.

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Likely alluding to her preference being heavily armored (as Ashley does wear Heavy Armor) and slow as opposed to lightly armored and agile, NOT armored in combat as opposed to unarmored in combat. But read it however you choose.[/quote]

Kaidan refers to them having little in the way of protection and he wears LIGHT ARMOR.


[quote]JKoopman wrote...

I see no less than three layers of material covering her shoulders and arms, not counting a probable layer of mesh underneath that, which is comparable to the Medium Onyx armor and she appears to have additional chest protection compared to the later as well as much more coverage on her legs. I don't see how it's not a valid comparison.[/quote]

Your completely speculating here.

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Again, just because you say a thing does not make it true. The only thing I'm arguing against is your peculiar interperetation of the Mass Effect universe.
[/quote]


I'm not the one ignoring Mass Effect 1.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 janvier 2011 - 09:53 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Circular arguments ahoy, InvaderErl.



Mannly out.

[InvaderErl]

I'm sorry but no.

If I was to say All Biotics do not wear armor this is why we see biotics in light or no armor,  then you would be correct.

That is obviously false and is not my position, Tela Vesir and Wrex come to mind.

My argument is simply as follows. The presence of Biotics in ME1, who wear little protection of any kind or in the case of Benezia none at all, yet still manage to be formidable opponents indicates that a Biotic CAN rely on their Barriers for protection in a combat scenario.

We know the Commandos are not wearing hardsuits because of overall design but also spoken lines about the lack of protection that they enjoy in exchange for manueverability.

My assertion is also supported by the fact that the squadmates without hardsuits or less covered are (anyone care a guess): BIOTICS.

For the record, I have not said:

Crew members should not wear hardsuits in environmental hazards.

Barriers protect from EVERY DANGER (for that matter neither does armor or shields)

I have also not defended Miranda's ass or Samara's cleavage but have simply pointed out that Mass Effect 1 also had its own fair bit of sexualization and that to cast a stone at one should be casting a stone at both.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:01 .

[JKoopman]

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

Except your team never does this unless their in a vacuum oh and now its all of a sudden okay to have exposed flesh because it suits your point? [/quote]

I'm arguing that not having a breathing aparatus and sealed helmet on in a non-vacuum environment is "okay", yes. And I'm arguing that having a small opening around your mouth and chin is better than having a fully-exposed head, face, mouth, neck, chest, arms and belly. Go figure.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

Yes, because modern technology has been jump started 200 years by alien technology. Sorry its an invalid comparison.[/quote]

It's invalid to say that combat helmets in the year 2186 wouldn't encompass a soldier's entire head because helmets in the year 2011 don't cover a soldier's entire head? What? It seems to me the comparison is fairly apt.

Helmets have only gotten smaller over the last 2,000 years of human existence, but for some reason you think assuming that helmets would be smaller still 175 years from now (even though the helmets in ME are actually quite a bit more robust, in actuality) is far fetched to the point of being incapable of comparison?

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

If you say so...[/quote]

I do, its pretty visible, there's metal strands across the torso.[/quote]

Good point. There are a few extra shiny straps and strips, her chestpiece has changed from a crew neck to a v-neck and her legs have about 10% more armor coverage. Clearly much better protection and irrelevant to compare them.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

If you're not even going to read my posts

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
However, this yes borders on fetish gear, with its bra and panties look and its made worse that its the BEST armor in the game.



and the Commando outfit is very obviously fetishistic with. [/quote]

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

There you go again with that. You know, there were 15 other armor styles that you could put Liara in other than just Colossus. But way to use the one armor style that kinda-sorta-in-a-half-assed-way supports your point of view.

Why don't you head on over to the Mass Effect wiki and pick out something different for a change?[/quote]

If you'd been paying attention to my argument you'd know the reason I use THAT armor is its somehow one of the most powerful suits in the game yet its very light, literally skin tight.[/quote]

And you have no idea what kind of materials it's made out of or approximately how thick it is (I see a gray mesh layer, a red layer and a black polymer/armor layer). You're basing your entire argument off a flat texture of a futuristic suit of armor (and keep in mind that you just said not two quotes up that we can't make assumptions about technology that's been "jump started 200 years") and assuming how much protection it should realistically be able to provide.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

Which is why I said earlier that Miranda and Samara are not just wearing whatever they happened to pick out of the wash that day as you seem to be implicating. My position is that that their suits despite not being hardsuits are likely made out of harder and tougher materials since they obviously can take gunfire and keep going.[/quote]

...And yet here you do the exact opposite to support ME2 and assume that the materials Miranda and Samara's outfits (I refuse to call them "armor") are made out of is some super-strong future fabric that defelcts bullets and knife attacks for no other reason than because Miranda and Samara don't die instantly in combat; which is a gameplay mechanic being used in a lore argument and is therefor invalid.

As someone else said in another thread who's name I forget, that's like saying that Cmdr. Shepard can't kneel because the player can't crouch in ME2.

Nevermind that, no matter what bulletproof materials Miranda and Samara's outfits might possibly be made out of, they can't protect what they don't cover.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...
Your argument has thus far been CHARACTERS MUST WEAR PLATED ARMOR (hardsuits ) TO PROTECT THEMSELVES[/quote]

No, my argument thus far has been that characters going into combat situations should probably be wearing protective material that at least covers their whole body. I'm not saying that everyone needs to have armored plates affixed to every square inch of their person (although a few strategically-placed armor plates would be nice), but that Miranda, Samara and certainly Jack not walk around with more exposed flesh than clothing; least of all in hostile environments with nothing but basically a surgical facemask for protection. It pushes my suspension of disbelief to it's breaking point.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

and I've pointed to numerous characters in game who have worn light suits or in two cases what visibly appear to be LEATHER catsuits from the first game yet are combat capable. Why you refuse to believe so when THAT outfit up there outranks sets of HEAVY ARMOR is beyond me.[/quote]

Again, that Light Colossus armor provides more "Damage Protection" points than Heavy Onyx armor is a gameplay mechanic, and one that you're making wild assumptions about as is.

If ME1 says something is armor, I believe that it's armor; not a leather catsuit, not "fetish gear". If there were exposed patches of skin visible all over the Light Colossus armor, you'd have a point. But there isn't. And as we have no way of knowing what kind of materials it's made out of nor it's thickness by looking at a flat texture, I'm going to go with what the game says. That it's armor.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

And the Asari Commando outfit is not "fetishistic" in any way. It's a mesh bodysuit with "leather" padding and polymer/armor plates on top. It's as much a "fetish" costume as Medium Onyx armor.[/quote]

Very forgiving of ME1 again with no room for slack whereas ME2 is concerned I see.[/quote]

Says the pot to the kettle...

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

Benezia was there to put down a Rachni uprising. She arrived AFTER Peak 15 went silent to take control of the situation. She knew there were going to be Rachni and she anticipated possible intereference (hence the Geth defenses outside the base). Your practically IGNORING events at this point.[/quote]

Benezia was there to retrieve the location of the Mu Relay from the Rachni Queen. She didn't know the rachni had escaped, and the peak didn't go silent until AFTER she got there. She would've had no reason to assume she was walking into a combat situation going down to Noveria. And as you never SEE her engage in combat with any rachni, nor have any idea how many Geth and Asari Commandos were lost protecting her on her way to the Queen, you have no way of knowing her effectiveness in combat or whether she even engaged in combat at all before Shepard confronted her. You're again making assumptions.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

Likely alluding to her preference being heavily armored (as Ashley does wear Heavy Armor) and slow as opposed to lightly armored and agile, NOT armored in combat as opposed to unarmored in combat. But read it however you choose.[/quote]

Kaidan refers to them having little in the way of protection and he[/quote]

Very little. As in "light", not none. You're not establishing anything we don't already know; that Asari Commandos wear light armor.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

[quote]JKoopman wrote...

I see no less than three layers of material covering her shoulders and arms, not counting a probable layer of mesh underneath that, which is comparable to the Medium Onyx armor and she appears to have additional chest protection compared to the later as well as much more coverage on her legs. I don't see how it's not a valid comparison.[/quote]

Your completely speculating here. How the heck do you know if its comparable, there's PROBABLY a layer of mesh?[/quote]

Now I'm speculating? I'm going off what I can plainly see.



Layers on top of layers overlapping other layers. And you can clearly see some sort of mesh beneath it all; and if it extends from her chest down to her legs, it's reasonable to assume that it also extends to her arms.

[quote]InvaderErl wrote...

[quote]JKoopman wrote...
Again, just because you say a thing does not make it true. The only thing I'm arguing against is your peculiar interperetation of the Mass Effect universe.
[/quote]

I'm not the one ignoring Mass Effect 1.

[/quote]

Clearly...

Modifié par JKoopman, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:17 .

[Unseen_77]

Surprised this is still going on. None of your squad mates in ME 2 were military. Only one with military training is Sheperd. It would make sense with them all dressed in the same kind of uniforms and armor becuase of military protocol however that has not been the case since ME 1.

ME 2 team is a group of individuals hired by a company, where as in the military individuality takes a back seat becuase you are trained to work as a unit and not be an individual.

In Movies and books (unless it's a military of course) the main characters usually wear something completely different to identify their individual characters from each other.And they usually fit the characters personality over practicality. I think all of the ME 2 crew just would not look silly wearing canon armor.

I think this was one of the main reasons why Bioware took this rout with the characters for ME 2.

It still seems very surprising how this is still such a big deal to some people. Maybe for ME 3 it will be more military based again, and people that are fans of the canon military type armor suits will get what they want as that would make more sence then.

As for the realism, I don't believe that those hard suits would realistically absorb the damage that they do, and also would become weaker with damage over time. So I can't see how the realism thing can be used as an argument.

Modifié par Unseen_77, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:18 .

[InvaderErl]

At this point I've honestly been at this way too long and I can see that if one of us doesn't dislodge we're going to be stuck for even longer. I've more or less summarized my thoughts on the issue in the post before yours, and I'll leave it at that.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:17 .

[Unseen_77]

.

Modifié par Unseen_77, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:18 .

[InvaderErl]

Unseen_77 wrote...

.

Respect.

[thegreateski]

I have problems with Jack's belt bra, Samara's cleavage, and that's it.



Jack at least gets the choice to put a shirt on after her loyalty mission. The celibate Justicar has no such excuse.

[Babli]

ok, so some of you people are happy with characters like this



to running and fighting in dangerous combat...even in space.

Because that makes sense. Right? RIGHT?
C´mon... you cant be serious...

Modifié par Babli, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:45 .

[InvaderErl]

Talk about hyperbole much?