Dazaster Dellus wrote...
JKoopman wrote...
A) So, by your logic, Jack is a member of Cerberus because she's on a Cerberus ship? I'm sure she'd be delighted to hear that. Also, Shepard was a Spectre when he/she took command of the Normandy, and the Normandy fell under the defacto jurisdiction of the Council. The Alliance personel serving aboard the Normandy would still be expected to follow Alliance regulations, but neither Liara, Garrus, Wrex or Tali become drafted into Alliance service by their presence aboard your ship.
That's funny, cause there are plenty of human C-SEC officers running about the Citadel that aren't in armor. Again, the point remains that even though Garrus wasn't under Alliance command, and therefor was under no obligation to follow the orders of an Alliance officer, he still obeyed Shepard's instructions and donned whatever armors he was instructed to.
C) Patriarch, for one. I'm sure I could find more examples, but as with B, it's evading the point. Wrex put on whichever armors Shepard directed him to despite being under no obligation to do so.
D) None of which contradicts anything I said, or disproves the point being made.
E) The lesson there being that even the shy, timid scientist Liara had the sense to suit up before heading down to a hostile planet where she was likely to get shot at.
F) Neither was your squad in ME1 going into "full scale war". You were hunting down ONE rogue Spectre, and you knew nothing of the Reapers until near the very end. In ME2, you're thought to be going up against an entire species on their own homeworld and the stakes are clear from the start. Which one sounds more like war to you?
Haha! Are you serious?!
A) No Jack isn't a member of Cerberus by my logic. Liara was integrated into the Normandy's Alliance crew. A military crew. Jack was hired be Cerberus in exchange for a favor. Totally different circumstances. If you can't see that I don't know what to tell you. Also as I said before Cerberus doesn't really have a set standard. An Alliance/Council based warship would seem to have Regs in place. On the cerberus side of things people can do whatever the hell they want. They are contract killers pretty much. Your logic about them being drafted makes no sense either. I never said they were drafted in. So I'll put it into even more clear terms. Liara who had no desire to be unprotected and alone would have done whatever Regs be it Commander Shepards, Council, or Alliance told her. Garrus was just getting done with C-Sec and he was still wearing his field gear(which he wore the entire game). Of course he would still follow the rules that C-Sec instilled in him. Tali doesn't even wear armor so that is a moot point. And Wrex is a Krogan who was also on a mission at the same time you recruit him. He is also a Merc, so that explains his reason for wearing armor. It's not about if it is smarter, more realistic, Rules and Regs, etc. It's about how it fits with their personalities. Because you saying "Hey, that's not smart" or "that's not realistic" or whatever isn't all to acurate. I mean really Kasumi(A master Thief) and Thane(An Assassin) running around in even light armor wouldn't be horrible but it would be kind of ridiculous. Grunt was bred to fight, Garrus a combat vet, Shepard also a combat vet, Legion a Geth machine, they all have armor because it fits with who they are.
Really?! Grasping for straws here. There is a such thing as off duty, light duty and so on. I am not even oing to say anything else to this one.
C) Already hit on this one in A) but to add to it....Yeah he puts on whatever armor you(as Shepard) tell him to but that still doesn't dismiss the fact that he wears armor all the time. Even when you are on the ship it reverts back to his normal armor. Hell even in ME2 as leader of his clan he wore armor. He is a battle Krogan. That is who he is.
E) Again you pretty much stone you own self with this one. Just like you said "shy, timid scientist Liara" has the smarts to suit up because she didn't know much about anything combat related(even though she apparently learned quickly). Now compare her to Samara an Asari Justicar....no wait.....a powerful Asari Justicar who has been hunting for decades. Yeah.....I think Samara has the skill and the right to wear whatever she wants to. Why? Because it fits her character. Same with Thane, Kasumi, Zaeed etc.
F)Ummm, you were also fighting an army of geth. Ok so maybe a full scale war was a little exaggerated but I kind of figured you would get the picture. The mission they were on wasn't a walk in the park and was just as big as anything they did in ME2. You mention that they were going up against an entire species which is kind of an exaggeration as well, but I could say the same thing. In ME1 they went into a big battle with Saren and an army of Geth, Krogan and Salarians. Also, your team goes to llos and by then Shepard and the rest already know of Saren's plan, his army of geth and they know the bulk of Saren's army would be there. Which is why Shepard and Anderson petition the council to send in the fleet to stop him. So actually yeah I am right about it being a full scale war by the end of ME1. Assaulting a collector base with 1 ship and a team of 12 is a guerrila battle. I don't know if you know the difference. So I ask you in turn which one you actually think sounds more like war? Or if you don't want to call it that, which one do you think sounds like a bigger battle? Actually.....NVM.
A) 1. Your logic seems to be "The Normandy is staffed by an Alliance crew. Liara is aboard the Normandy. Liara is a part of the Normandy's crew. Therefor Liara is part of the Alliance." I would ask how that doesn't apply to Jack and the Cerberus crew? The Normandy SR-2 is a Cerberus vessel staffed by Cerberus crew. Jack is aboard the Normandy SR-2. Jack is a part of your crew. Therefor Jack is part of Cerberus. If you can't see the logical fallacy in that, then I don't know what to tell you. And, as Liara doesn't wear an Alliance uniform while aboard the Normandy SR-1 but rather wears a civilian lab coat, the notion that she's observing Alliance regulations by putting on armor when
OFF the Normandy seems to be on rather shaky ground.
A) 2. Furthermore, Cerberus clearly has regs as everyone else aboard the ship is wearing the standard Cerberus white and black uniform. So the argument that Cerberus has no standards of dress is clearly incorrect from the start.
A) 3. Lastly, the only members of your crew under any sort of contract with Cerberus, making them "contract killers", are Zaeed and Kasumi. The rest are recruited no differently than Garrus, Wrex, Liara or Tali in ME1. Heck, Samara even
swears loyality to you and agrees to follow your every command. Are you telling me that if Shepard asked her to zip up her suit before they land on the planet with the acidic atmosphere, she'd decline because "that's who she is?"
You were grasping at a straw. It just so happened that your straw wasn't very substantial, and now you're grasping at yet another to defend it.
C) Exactly. While he's on the Normandy, he can wear whatever he pleases. But when he's going on a mission with Shepard, he suits up however his Commander sees fit. Same thing with Liara, who slips back into her lab coat between missions. That's the way it was in ME1. That's the way we're saying it should've been in ME2. And that's the way we're advocating for it to be in ME3.
E) That's right. Samara. With her vast experience in combat and her powerful biotics and her aforementioned
binding oath to follow your every command. That example isn't really doing you any favors. I also find it odd how your only explanation for why Liara wears armor in ME1 instead of running into combat in her casual clothes like half your squad does in ME2 is because "she's so inexperienced in combat." Shouldn't the one who's
inexperienced in combat be the one going into battle unprepared and underequiped, and the
seasoned fighters should be the ones who know enough not to jump into vacuum without a shirt on?
F) No, it's not an exaggeration. The stated purpose of your mission in ME2 from the beginning is to go to the Collector homeworld and "shut them down." That sounds like declaring war on a species to me. Regardless, in addition to the whole of the Collectors, you also wage war against a total of 3 Mercenary gangs, the Geth Heretics, and the Vorcha horde in ME2. Did full scale war break out by the end of ME1? Yes. Was Shepard fighting that war? No, he was fighting the aforementioned "guerilla battle" while the war happened in the background (and in the last 5% of the game I might add). So I question it's relevancy to the topic.
Modifié par JKoopman, 22 janvier 2011 - 05:45 .
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You can't really try to make sense out of ME2's story.
