31 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

An earlier topic a few days ago mentioned Heavy Rain inspiring Bioware, which from a narrative perspective is no surprise. Although the thread devolved into a heavy rain hate fest, I'd like to remind those of you at home of David Cage's emphasis on trying to make choices feel like they have a weighted consequence - which included immediately autosaving your game after making any particular choice.

What I'm getting at is, would you prefer ME to have a system which would still allow to you to have your normal saves, but if any choice is made during the game, it is permanently hammered into the save file from then on? And forgive me if this has been mentioned before in the forums.

From Tuchanka With Love,
-Dominus Vita <3

Modifié par DominusVita, 13 janvier 2011 - 01:34 .

[mmmu]

I think it would be nice as an optional feature.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Well, to some extent, they kind of are already aren't they?



What I mean is that in order for you to change it, you'd have to go back to a previous save before that choice.

[Dominus]

Point taken. Maybe more trouble than it's worth to add in the first place.

Modifié par DominusVita, 13 janvier 2011 - 02:48 .

[masterkajo]

I know what you mean. When two friends of mine played ME2 they both lost about 5 squad members and both wanted to retry the suicide mission just so they wouldn't lose them. Fortunately, I was there and stopped them from giving in to their urges. But ultimately, it is your own decision if you do.



I for myself just play the game and live with the consequences because it is exactly that what makes the Bioware games so special.

[Uszi]

masterkajo wrote...

I know what you mean. When two friends of mine played ME2 they both lost about 5 squad members and both wanted to retry the suicide mission just so they wouldn't lose them. Fortunately, I was there and stopped them from giving in to their urges. But ultimately, it is your own decision if you do.

I for myself just play the game and live with the consequences because it is exactly that what makes the Bioware games so special.

... I replayed the SM over and over until I got it right.
I'd prefer that my choices be locked in in terms of series wide choices.  I want the Rachni to be an important choice, and I don't want things to work out the same whether you killed the queen or not.

[RandyBobandy]

I don't like being locked into decisions. If I accidentally choose a renegade choice (as I did in Legion's loyalty mission, gaining me 30 unwanted renegade points) while aiming for paragon, I'd want to revert to a previous save so that I could get the paragon points instead. While I understand that being locked in could be good for some people, forcing them to think long and hard about their actions, I prefer to take whatever choices feel natural at the time, sometimes resulting in unwanted consequences. With no way to back out of these, much of the game would leave me feeling disheartened by a single choice and could ruin the entire experience for me.

Perhaps an option to enable or disable such 'locking' of decisions would be welcome for some.

[masterkajo]

RandyBobandy wrote...

I don't like being locked into decisions. If I accidentally choose a renegade choice (as I did in Legion's loyalty mission, gaining me 30 unwanted renegade points) while aiming for paragon, I'd want to revert to a previous save so that I could get the paragon points instead. While I understand that being locked in could be good for some people, forcing them to think long and hard about their actions, I prefer to take whatever choices feel natural at the time, sometimes resulting in unwanted consequences. With no way to back out of these, much of the game would leave me feeling disheartened by a single choice and could ruin the entire experience for me.
Perhaps an option to enable or disable such 'locking' of decisions would be welcome for some.

But that's just it. You shouldn't play the game a certain way (need to take this response so I can get 30 Paragon points) but rather stick with your decisions and live with the consequences even if they are not the way you wanted it. There were decisions where I thought I do the right thing and it turns out horrible wrong - just like in real life.

Modifié par masterkajo, 13 janvier 2011 - 04:46 .

[djarlaks10]

Yeah, would be great, and that's how I did my first ME1 and ME2 playthroughs (well, everyone can make a mistake, so that's realistic that Shepard is losing squaddies and doing something that wasn't intended to), but I doubt it's possible. After all, when such things as saves exist, you can always return to some part of the game and replay it.

[Uszi]

masterkajo wrote...

But that's just it. You shouldn't play the game a certain way (need to take this response so I can get 30 Paragon points) but rather stick with your decisions and live with the consequences even if they are not the way you wanted it. There were decisions where I thought I do the right thing and it turns out horrible wrong - just like in real life.

In... your opinion as an RP player, I suppose.

In reality, most gamers are metagamers who don't appreciate being punished for their mistakes by game developers.

I'm not saying I disagree with your original sentiment.  My "canon" playthrough is a gut instinct, nieve playthrough.  But to force me to play that way every time would be quite lame indeed.

Modifié par Uszi, 13 janvier 2011 - 05:20 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

Yeah I helped patriarch by being his team then I lied to Aria and said he must’ve been ill informed or making things up, I would’ve liked her to call me out on it like I half expected her too. Also I don't want an ability in 3 to switch my decisions in 3 like all my sheps in ME picked Anderson for variety I made one shep lie and say Udina was her man and in ME2 he was I don't want that to happen to all my decisions in ME - ME2 not even on a partial bases if my shep is lying call her out on it don’t let the her lie and then go along with it. Also whatever born and war background I picked can we just keep it for 3 w/o me having to redo that I’ve got one shep who was a Midior and a War hero then she decided to be Earth and Sole Survivor and the computer didn’t correct her on this.

EDIT:
Sorry BW she’s a compulsive Liar! Good luck saving her!  

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 13 janvier 2011 - 11:36 .

[DJBare]

mmmu wrote...

I think it would be nice as an optional feature.

This.

[The Spamming Troll]

nope, not a good idea at all. ME isnt heavy rain. your choices in ME mean nothing more then an email.

[Kusy]

Nah.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

The current system does work... some kind of "ironman" one save only game wouldn't appeal to me. There have been times when I made a choice and the results was me saying NOOOO and reloading. I wouldn't want to have to start over. :-)



Good post though, OP.

[AlexMBrennan]

I think it would be a rather bad idea to develop a rather complicated system to "lock in" plot choices; it's not likely to work (e.g. compare this with the certificate revocation problem), players will find a way around it anyway (just like DRM it can't possibly work unless the users willingly surrenders all control over how they use their computer and buys a games console) and those that want "locked in" plot choices can just not reload an earlier save if a mission doesn't go according to plan (or stick to quicksave to avoid the temptation)

[dWintermut3]

If they went to this, which I like to call the nethack-style game. Or Roguelikes in general usually did this, they'd have to make dialogue a lot more clear.



In some other games when you click an option it tells you just what you're going to say. the fact that the top half of the menu is generally paragon doesn't help when you realize "it's not like that" actually is both on the top of the bar and ends a romance arc forever.

[Ja5ck]

it would be cool to be a setting in the options menu

[Aggie Punbot]

There already is such a feature; it's called Will Power.

I really have to wonder at the people who want features in games that forces them to do things that they simply lack the will power to do (or not do, in this case) themselves.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 14 janvier 2011 - 05:34 .

[Mister_Shepard]

If they do it right. Lionhead did a REALLY crap job at this. You only had one save slot and whenever the game would crash or get bugged your left with nothing so you'd have to start a new game. If Bioware's planning to do this (which I'm sure they're not), then they should plan on having back up saves.

[xlavaina]

I do not think this would be a good idea. I've never been one to support "god mode" in these types of video games. If you make a decision in a game like ME, you'll need to deal with it. Normal saves are enough in my opinion.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Uszi wrote...

masterkajo wrote...

I know what you mean. When two friends of mine played ME2 they both lost about 5 squad members and both wanted to retry the suicide mission just so they wouldn't lose them. Fortunately, I was there and stopped them from giving in to their urges. But ultimately, it is your own decision if you do.

I for myself just play the game and live with the consequences because it is exactly that what makes the Bioware games so special.

... I replayed the SM over and over until I got it right.
I'd prefer that my choices be locked in in terms of series wide choices.  I want the Rachni to be an important choice, and I don't want things to work out the same whether you killed the queen or not.

It's not the same.  For example, my renegade Shepard was able to say something about having killed the Rachni queen in Lair of the Shadow Broker.  My Paragon Shepard didn't have that line, because she let her live.  They ARE making the choices like this have impact.  In fact, if you let the Rachni queen live you can run into a girl (I forget where) that wants you to further help the Rachni Queen (she's being sorta controlled by the queen to talk to you, but it's totally voluntary, at least she says... you have options of whether you beleive her or not).

Another example is if you don't take Wrex to see Fist in ME1 and then choose to let Fist live, you'll find him drinking away his sorrows in Afterlife on Omega in ME2.


EDIT: By locked in decisions, do you mean like Wasteland? For those of you not old enough to remember this classic game that the whole Fallout series is based on (same writers in fact, just they decided to change the series name to Fallout because they created a new world instead of a direct sequel), the way the game worked was you had to use a special utility on the disc to create discs you actually used to play with.  Whenever you entered a new area it saved the AREA, and there was no going back.  If you chose to slaughter everyone in the village of Redpool then left and changed your mind, even going back to a previous save game (which you could still, as it didn't save your characters), when you return to Redpool everyone was dead (and if you did try to revert back, any items you got while there would be gone) because the game itself was rewritten on the disc (hence why you had to "create" game discs to play with).  It was actually rather annoying at times, because sometimes something would happen where you needed to revert to a previous save you could be screwed.  For example, if you fell in the water in the Vegas sewers and got diseased then you end up being forced out of the sewers into the river, the game just saved the Vegas sewers map and now you are in the world map with your characters diseased and drowning... even if you return to a previous save in the Vegas sewers, if you picked up an important quest item, it's gone. You're just screwed and must create totally new game discs and start the game over.  AT least nowadays we have hard drives to play off of, you can backup the whole game folder heh. Back when the game came out it had to be played off discs because nobody had a hard drive big enough LOL.

Modifié par AbsolutGrndZer0, 14 janvier 2011 - 06:59 .

[Dem_B]

I think that the mass effect 3 will not be saving decisions into file for their transport, because mass effect 3 is a final of the story. Yes the games for the universe will be, but importing saved is not needed.

Importing saved always limits, because you can not have the opposite result, the new game will not go in two opposite ways, if you choose them in their previous game. Decision to keep or donate the council, has not changed the course of plot line mass effect 2. 

But if the mass effect 3 will not transfer saves to the next game, then the game will not be limited decisions and decisions can have the opposite effect on the storyline mass effect 3.

[The Spamming Troll]

you guys are worrying to much. tell me a decision in ME1 that effected ME2......... see nothing to worry about, it wont matter if you saved the rachni, destroyed the base, or got conrad vernor killed. im pretty sure ME3 will end exactly the same for everyone.

[Big stupid jellyfish]

The fact is, metagaming is not the only thing to keep in mind here.

I, for example, sometimes replay one dialogue several times looking through all options and lines my Shepard can say in order to choose not the one that's most beneficial, but the one that suit Shep's personality more. That's important in ME 'cos dialogue wheel doesn't always accurately represent what and how would Shep actually say. So you may choose an option thinking it fits and get something OOC.

Also, what about trying different decisions/options/interrupts out just out of curiosity or for the lulz?

As an optional feature - why not. As a permanent one - hell no.

Modifié par Big stupid jellyfish, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:27 .