92 réponses à ce sujet

[Ardinal]

If fanfiction writers were animals, I would be hybrid of all the slowest, short attention spanned creatures on the planet. Possibly a sloth, tortoise fish, or what I would fondly refer to as a "Slortish".

SLORTISH I CHOOSE YOU! .... I CHOOSE YOU! ... I choose...

...

Ash shove it... he 'aint leaving the ball.

Anyways, I have only recently discovered the joys of writing fanfiction. The endless nights tick tacking away at my keyboard with childish delight. My bosoms heaving and my ears turning red as I succumb to the allure of self inserted smut.. *cough*

I was finally game enough to venture onto FF.net. I really don't know what all the fuss is abou AARRRH! AAAARGH!! AAAARGH!! OH GOD! What is that? OH GOD! NO IT'S YOU'RE! YOU ARE! NOT YOUR! OH GOD. NO! NO DON'T PUT THAT IN ALISTAIR! OH GOD WHY!?

Actually I am in awe of all the amazingly talented and creative people out there.

So as to improve my own fanfiction and writing skills I googled my way to some helpful web articles about writing fanfiction.

How to write for fanfiction. http://www.ehow.com/...fictionnet.html

How to write decent fanfiction. http://www.wikihow.c...cent-Fanfiction


Do you have any useful tips or feedback for writing fanfiction?

What are your fanfiction pet hates?

Can you recommend any fanfiction writers that have gone on to become published authors?



SLORTISH! GO!

BE FREE! 

FREE AS THE WIND BLOWS...

...

*crickets*

Modifié par Ardinal, 17 janvier 2011 - 12:08 .

[Ardinal]

When reading a description for a fanfic, what does lemon refer to? Is it like another word for yuri or lemon party? o.0

[Ardinal]

 Oh wait... never mind... 

[mousestalker]

I believe Mercedes Lackey wrote fanfic back in the day. I know she was a filker.



My own personal fanfic hate is one I'm guilty of. I loathe Mary Sue and Marty Stu and all their many relatives.



My other pet peeve is inconsistency in colour description. If X has ebony eyes, then you can say he has dark eyes, eyes the colour of night, black eyes,or eyes of ink. Don't say he has cerulean eyes.



If you have a horse gallop for more than thirty minutes (and even that is pushing it) I will have the literary SPCA on your butt for cruelty to fictional animals.

[Ardinal]

My pet hate so far seems to be using a word in the wrong context or mistaking it for meaning something else. That is not what that word means. Please use a dictionary.



Hehehehe. We should form the SPCFA!

[Corker]

Some of my earliest scifi/fantasy reading included "Star Trek" novels, arguably pro fanfic.  Diane Duane (best Romulans ever!), Diane Carey (maybe Piper *was* a Mary Sue but I didn't know it back then, and I loved the novelty of the first person OC narrator) and Janet Kagan (I was TWELVE it was OKAY to love the cat-people and their survivalist nomad culture.  IT WAS). 

Also, "How Much for Just the Planet?" contained poetry, a pie fight, and was BRILLIANT.  (By John M. Ford, a real scifi writer!)

And there's an entire cottage industry of similar stuff, set in RPG worlds and popular franchises.

Personal do's...

Do work to get the 'voices' of the canon characters right.

Do make any original characters distinctive. 
---- Not necessarily original.  Sgt. Kylon is a Tired Old Cop and Dagna is an Enthusiastic Young Geek, not very original in either case.  But they're both very distinctive and caught my attention in a way that, say, Sanga didn't.

Do know your genre conventions
---- Fantasy is usually anachronistic, but within limits; space opera can ignore science, but within bounds.  I'll accept your plate glass windows at the palace but will flinch if the queen unzips her gown.

Do give me a reason to read: how is this fic different from all other fics?

Do write in a coherent and readable fashion.  This includes enough whitespace and punctuation that I can untangle your words.

Do know what you're looking to get out of writing fanfiction

[payroo]

Hmm, this is a bit of a psychotic pet peeve, but whenever I see X gem + "orbs" (example, sapphire orbs) used to describe eyes, it makes the fic a whole lot harder for me to read.



I guess over flowery descriptions in general hurt. Especially when the person being described is an original character...

[Shinobu]

Thanks for the links! I'm flirting with fic but am not very confident. Does someone know how one finds a beta? On FF.net are we just supposed to "cold-call" (cold-email?) someone who has signed up as a beta for DA? It's sort of intimidating. ("Hi, you don't know me but could you tell me if my baby is ugly?")

How do people keep PC Wardens from becoming Mary-Sues? The game sets up the PC as the most awesome, influential character that everyone falls in love with, which seems rather Mary-Sue-ish. I've loved most of the DA fic that I've read and have not found the Cousies, Tabrises, etc, to be Mary-Sue ish usually, which is no mean feat, but not sure how to keep mine from falling into that trap. Much of the game is pro-Mary-Sue inducing:

Mary-Sue-isms:
1) Having a character with the words Fox, Cat, Shadow or their Japanese equivalents in their actual, parent-given names. This can be controlled.
2) Having a character with weird hair or eye colors. Also can be controlled.
3) Having a character with a *tragic past*, esp. rape (but in DA *everyone* has a tragic past)
4) Having all other characters fall in love with Mary Sue and not be able to live without her (again, this is pretty much the DA LI's all over)
5) Having a character have the ability to talk to animals or turn into animals (Dog, anyone? Shapeshifting magic)
6) Having a character kick everyone's butt (Describes the PC)

So with the cards stacked against us, how to avoid the pitfall?

Mary-Sue Litmus test:
http://www.springhol...zes/marysue.htm

My pet peeve would be spelling, probably. It doesn't have to be perfect, but if someone keeps writing: "Allister is the air to the thrown of Fureldin!" I get the heck out.

Modifié par Shinobu, 14 janvier 2011 - 12:01 .

[Sagacious Rage]

Have fun. Don't worry about people trying to tell you what to do unless you actively ask their opinion. This is a hobby, not a job, and the second I stop getting some kind of feeling of personal fulfillment out of it, I'm out.

[Tasmen]

The only advice I'd give is to have fun and maybe find a beta.  If you aren't having fun, what's the point? As to the beta, it's great (or at least has been for me) to have someone to act as a sounding board for ideas and to check my work for grammatical errors. 

[Corker]

Shinobu wrote...
So with the cards stacked against us, how to avoid the pitfall?
.

Writing Flawed Characters

Original Characters in Fanfiction

Characterization of Protagonists 1, 2, 3

I think I've linked to Limyaeel's rants before (all collected here).  I don't agree with everything she writes, but everything she writes is thoughtful and thought-provoking. Worth a read.

Modifié par Corker, 14 janvier 2011 - 12:43 .

[Neaira]

Have fun, and remember your character's voice! A Brosca is going to have a far different perspective than a Cousland.



Also, betas. They rule.

[ezrakin]

To echo others, fun fun fun. Much like anything, once it becomes a bore, it's not worth it.



Betas are fantastic, if you work like that. Some people can write gold on the first draft (lucky nughumpers) and others just prefer their work unbeta'd, but if you're a little terrified of putting your work out there, a beta is a brilliant way to judge reactions.



In response to Shinobu re: the 4th point...

4) Having all other characters fall in love with Mary Sue and not be able to live without her (again, this is pretty much the DA LI's all over)

I wouldn't necessarily say this is completely true. As LIs go, Zevran and Morrigan in particular are quite independant and don't live to see the Warden's smile. I wouldn't even say that of Alistair (**** DUMPS YOU IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. /bitter) or even Leliana, since ending their romances ingame does not lead to them leaving the party, and the approval rating can be rebuilt to a close friendship.

I think, with care, the romances can be written in a more realistic way than the Mary-Sue standard of "I can't live without you", but I also think there is fic out there that doesn't quite take that care. We are quite lucky as a community to have some the writers that we do - there is a brilliant standard out there.



Having said that, my final piece of advice - you're nervous, because this is your first piece of fanfic, and you've never shown anyone, and you're showing it to a group of people who all seem to be writing SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU... sound familiar? Yeah, we've all been there! It's scary, putting yourself out there for the first time, but we're not monsters who will tear you a new one. We're humans (and elves and dwarves) who have all been there, and think you're brave for taking that first leap.

Take a deep breath, smile, and when you're ready to do it, just click 'post'.

[Sagacious Rage]

Shinobu wrote...

Mary-Sue Litmus test:
http://www.springhol...zes/marysue.htm

I just tried this, and simply putting in answers that I have to because the game demands it puts me pretty firmly in Sue territory. 

I have to say, I get irritated at all the Sue policing around. I mean, I understand when a character's perfection is just completely over-the-top and unrealistic. Like the Warden who managed to survive the battle with the Archdemon without doing the Dark Ritual and didn't even break a nail while doing it! But sometimes I get the impression that some readers believe that if you make a female character the hero of the story, then she must be a Sue. While on the other hand, many successful popular franchises are built around pretty unrealistically perfect MALE heros (James Bond, anyone?) and nobody seems to have a problem accepting that.

It just irks me. There aren't enough stories focused on strong, vital, interesting, heroic women as it is. Why do we need to tear each other down when we're trying to fill that void as amateurs? 


Edited because I'm not trying to say that this is a problem specific to this forum. If anything, the Bioware fandoms are more forgiving of things that would be torn down as a "Mary Sue" than others. It's just the concept in general that I dislike.

Modifié par Sagacious Rage, 14 janvier 2011 - 01:48 .

[Shinobu]

Corker wrote...

Shinobu wrote...
So with the cards stacked against us, how to avoid the pitfall?
.

Writing Flawed Characters

Original Characters in Fanfiction

Characterization of Protagonists 1, 2, 3

I think I've linked to Limyaeel's rants before (all collected here).  I don't agree with everything she writes, but everything she writes is thoughtful and thought-provoking. Worth a read.

Thank you! Those rants are PURE GOLD (some are also hysterically funny). I'm not sure I know how to follow her advice, but just knowing about some pitfalls makes me less likely to fall into them, I hope.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

*taps fingertips Mr Burns style*

Excellent...another potential fanfic writer to add to the growing horde!

Ahem.

Actually, on the subject of fanfic writers who have 'gone on' to become published writers, were you aware that there are certain fandoms that do allow certain forms of fanfiction to be published? For example, Star Wars. Authors write novels and/or graphic novels on the Star Wars universe, get published and earn money.

General Writing Tips for Fanfiction (not writing style or grammar, etc):

• Know your lore. If you're going to write about Dragon Age, be consistent with the world and its history (unless you're doing parody or something). If you're changing something from what is established lore, give a good reason why (eg. how two Wardens have a miracle baby) or at least have characters acknowledge that something unusual that's happened is unusual.
  
• Know your  characters. If you're going to write about Morrigan, examine her character. Do her romance. Listen to her banters with other party members. Anything that gives you an insight into what makes her tick and helps put her 'voice' in your mind.
  
• Any OCs (original characters, like the Warden) you will have to give their own personalities and distinctiveness. Even a throwaway NPC can be interesting for the moment he's on-page, but they don't all have to be awesome. People are different. Some are boring. But you probably want to make any long-term OCs (like the Warden) interesting enough that people actually enjoy reading about them when the  companions aren't around.
  
• Don't just 'rewrite the game'. Plenty of other stuff happens in between. Or after. Or before. Or if you combine it with Star Trek.

Pet Peeves with Fanfiction:

• Character Assassination. Turning an NPC into an utter bastard or one dimensional parody of who they were in the game, with no explanation for the change. Sometimes this is done deliberately because an author doesn't like a particular character, but mostly it's because the author hasn't made the effort to understand a character (eg. Zevran forcing himself on anything that moves/not keeping his hands to himself when asked. If he was as much a sexual predator ingame as he was in many of the fics I've seen, I'd have lopped both his heads off).
  
• Fanfiction that isn't fanfiction (aka 'borrowing' Dragon Age names). I admit to a certain prejudice against stories that are, for instance Character X boinking character Y for 1000 words in Location Z, without plot or context (shorts that are part of a series where there is established characterisation are an exception). Yeah, I know, different strokes for different folks, but if you can exchange Alistair and Leliana and The Pearl for Greg and Roberta and The Red Light Bar and still have pretty much *exactly the same story*, to me it doesn't qualify as fanfiction.  Smut isn't the only offender, just the one I see the most of personally (and my bias against it does not in any way mean it can't be a well-written piece--just a qualifier for a different category of literature. Maybe 'fan****tion' >.>)
  
• Trying to make the game fit to the story rather than the story fit to the game. Unless you're writing AU, what happened in the game happened. Deal with the canon. This links back to 'knowing game lore', but is more in line with deliberately twisting it for whatever reason and 'rewriting' what's written because the author 'just didn't like/agree with that bit'.
  
• Fanfiction that might as well be a copy-paste of the game. Page after page of dialogue we've already read and heard, with a few descriptions and PC thoughts thrown in to flesh it out. I don't mind referencing a bit of dialogue here or there and making a note that credits Bioware, I'm fine with Blight stories that follow the game and adhere to established plots, but don't plagiarise entire conversations. >.< If I wanted to relive the game that much, I'd play it again.

Exception to all rules, of course. Stories that are meant to be parodies, for instance. But really, if I like a story at the end of the day, then I'll like it no matter what I just said up there.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sagacious Rage wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

Mary-Sue Litmus test:
http://www.springhol...zes/marysue.htm

I just tried this, and simply putting in answers that I have to because the game demands it puts me pretty firmly in Sue territory. 

I have to say, I get irritated at all the Sue policing around. I mean, I understand when a character's perfection is just completely over-the-top and unrealistic. Like the Warden who managed to survive the battle with the Archdemon without doing the Dark Ritual and didn't even break a nail while doing it! But sometimes I get the impression that some readers believe that if you make a female character the hero of the story, then she must be a Sue. While on the other hand, many successful popular franchises are built around pretty unrealistically perfect MALE heros (James Bond, anyone?) and nobody seems to have a problem accepting that.

It just irks me. There aren't enough stories focused on strong, vital, interesting, heroic women as it is. Why do we need to tear each other down when we're trying to fill that void as amateurs? 


Edited because I'm not trying to say that this is a problem specific to this forum. If anything, the Bioware fandoms are more forgiving of things that would be torn down as a "Mary Sue" than others. It's just the concept in general that I dislike.

I agree with this post. *affixes stamp*

[Shinobu]

ezrakin wrote...

To echo others, fun fun fun. Much like anything, once it becomes a bore, it's not worth it.

Betas are fantastic, if you work like that. Some people can write gold on the first draft (lucky nughumpers) and others just prefer their work unbeta'd, but if you're a little terrified of putting your work out there, a beta is a brilliant way to judge reactions.

In response to Shinobu re: the 4th point...
4) Having all other characters fall in love with Mary Sue and not be able to live without her (again, this is pretty much the DA LI's all over)
I wouldn't necessarily say this is completely true. As LIs go, Zevran and Morrigan in particular are quite independant and don't live to see the Warden's smile. I wouldn't even say that of Alistair (**** DUMPS YOU IN FRONT OF EVERYONE. /bitter) or even Leliana, since ending their romances ingame does not lead to them leaving the party, and the approval rating can be rebuilt to a close friendship.
I think, with care, the romances can be written in a more realistic way than the Mary-Sue standard of "I can't live without you", but I also think there is fic out there that doesn't quite take that care. We are quite lucky as a community to have some the writers that we do - there is a brilliant standard out there.

Having said that, my final piece of advice - you're nervous, because this is your first piece of fanfic, and you've never shown anyone, and you're showing it to a group of people who all seem to be writing SO MUCH BETTER THAN YOU... sound familiar? Yeah, we've all been there! It's scary, putting yourself out there for the first time, but we're not monsters who will tear you a new one. We're humans (and elves and dwarves) who have all been there, and think you're brave for taking that first leap.
Take a deep breath, smile, and when you're ready to do it, just click 'post'.

You're right about the LI's. (Got dumped, too.) I guess I was thinking about some of the things I've read at FF.net where there were a lot of really attached LI's and suicidal thoughts.

Yes, the level of quality here is amazing. I've certainly read published work that wasn't nearly as good as fics on this site. If I finish a fic (big IF) I think I'll let it stew anonymously on FF.net and if it's not eviscerated then consider posting a link here. Thank you for the pep talk!

[LupusYondergirl]

Although cannon forces a lot of mary sue traits on the warden, there's a lot of ways to avoid that trap. Not everyone will love someone because they're super-awesome. There's going to be resentment, people who think they don't deserve their reputation, jealousy... maybe their LI will be intimidated or have feelings of inadequacy. Maybe the Warden would cut off an arm just to be able to go have a drink without some local oaf fawning over them. Maybe they can't even properly do their job because of how intimidated people are. Granted, a lot of that would be more geared towards Awakening/postgame fics, but some applies to any timeframe.



But I've never bought into the "everyone wants the Warden" school of thought. I LIKE writing a brother/sister vibe for my main character and Alistair. He seriously wouldn't bang her with a rented di*k, though. Just because game mechanics make everyone attracted to the Warden doesn't mean you have to do the same in fic. Some personalities just won't mesh that way.

[Shinobu]

Sagacious Rage wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

Mary-Sue Litmus test:
http://www.springhol...zes/marysue.htm

I just tried this, and simply putting in answers that I have to because the game demands it puts me pretty firmly in Sue territory. 

I have to say, I get irritated at all the Sue policing around. I mean, I understand when a character's perfection is just completely over-the-top and unrealistic. Like the Warden who managed to survive the battle with the Archdemon without doing the Dark Ritual and didn't even break a nail while doing it! But sometimes I get the impression that some readers believe that if you make a female character the hero of the story, then she must be a Sue. While on the other hand, many successful popular franchises are built around pretty unrealistically perfect MALE heros (James Bond, anyone?) and nobody seems to have a problem accepting that.

It just irks me. There aren't enough stories focused on strong, vital, interesting, heroic women as it is. Why do we need to tear each other down when we're trying to fill that void as amateurs? 


Edited because I'm not trying to say that this is a problem specific to this forum. If anything, the Bioware fandoms are more forgiving of things that would be torn down as a "Mary Sue" than others. It's just the concept in general that I dislike.

Sorry, I didn't mean tear anyone down -- I'm not pointing at any fiction I've seen, because I don't really feel I've seen any Mary-Sues for DA. I just feel that the way the game is set up the PC Warden automatically falls into Mary-Sue territory (as you saw filling out the form), so keeping her out of it in fiction is doubly difficult. This makes sense, because playing a protagonist is not the same as reading about her. We want the PC to be super-amazing when we're playing her (and she is -- thanks, Bioware!), but we don't necessarily want to read about a super-amazing character that we're not playing.

Maybe the reason Mary-Sues aren't a problem for DA is that people are not really making completely original characters and we readers can identify with the heroine because we've played her, too. Because I played F!Tabris, I love Tabris fic because I already empathize with the character. Now if it were a completely original different city elf who romances Alistair, and doesn't get dumped at the Landsmeet, and who survives the final battle despite not doing the DR, and has five sets of violet-eyed twins while being the first elf-queen of Ferelden, I'd be seriously put off. Since no one writes that, it's good.

Hmm. Maybe I'm convincing myself that Sue-dom is not so difficult to avoid.

[Sagacious Rage]

Shinobu wrote...

Sorry, I didn't mean tear anyone down 

Oh, I didn't think you were. That wasn't aimed at you, more like the general vibe I've gotten from people from other fandoms who declare my characters Mary Sues or self-inserts without even reading the fic because it's Bioware and a female protagonist.

[Shinobu]

Sagacious Rage wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

Sorry, I didn't mean tear anyone down 

Oh, I didn't think you were. That wasn't aimed at you, more like the general vibe I've gotten from people from other fandoms who declare my characters Mary Sues or self-inserts without even reading the fic because it's Bioware and a female protagonist.

I'm sorry to hear that. It sucks. People here OTOH are quite welcoming.

[maxernst]

I do think it's hard to avoid a bi tof Sue-ism when writing a story based on a Warden PC. I took that test and scored a 33 for my protagonist--but most of those points were hard to avoid: he is noble, his family was murdered by a major villain, he's really ass-kicking, he's got a special name (hero of Ferelden), is famous, learned skills really fast...when you couple all the game-derived stuff with the fact that I suspect most people do tend to identify with their PC to at least some degree, you're going to have a bit of a Sue. I do think my protagonist is flawed (though he hasn't paid a heavy price for his flaws yet), but I could certainly see why someone would consider him a Sue.

[Ardinal]

I'm so happy to see people exchanging valuable information, hints and pet peeves concerning fanfics. I would love to find a beta. Hmmm, is there a section here on the forums where people can beta for each other. Maybe I can set up a beta exchange program or something, say if someone beta's for you, you must beta for them. It's like a fanfic pal type thing. (has a feeling this has been done already )

Also found this helpful - List of fanfiction terms. http://en.wikipedia....n_fiction_terms

Modifié par Ardinal, 14 janvier 2011 - 05:25 .

[mousestalker]

You may want to ask someone directly. Or you could set up a beta solicitation thread in this forum or a beta exchange group.