163 réponses à ce sujet

[oldag07]

As a reader of two of the books, ME Ascension states that the Quarians have begun to send ships out on exploratory missions to find new resources, and homeworlds. They even hinted that they were interested in "finding a reaper" so they could control the geth as Saren seem to have. I am really interested in seeing what Bioware comes up with this plot point. Maybe the Quarians find some superweapon to find the reapers. Maybe one of these exploration vessels actually find the a reaper. We will see.

[Nashiktal]

Vaenier wrote...
You are welcome.

You should not set your standards in writing so low. Do you also like the idea of putting C4 inside the ships control consoles so they can explode and kill people when the shields get shot?

I'm not for it but it does seem to happen now doesnt it? My standards have nothing to do with this. It is simple cause and effect.

Saren gets "Direct controlled" glows and sparks with that fancy red graphics. Kill saren, somehow stunning or whatever it does to him, suddenly sovvy glows with the same fancy red sparks and he is somehow killed by a frigate and two fighter while a whole FLEET of CRUISERS pounded at it for no effect the entire battle.

Those cruisers certainly didnt get any better at killing it. The only other factor in the battle was Sovvy controlling Saren.

[didymos1120]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

@ didymos1120 I think it would be unfair to assume that they are mostly machine just because they look that way on the inside and out. Its very possible that the majority of their organic components are located in the 'brain' of the ship.

I know: that's exactly what I was saying.  If most of the parts are non-living metal and wires, as the evidence so far leads us to believe, and you are hedging your bets when it comes to fighting the things,  it's a good idea to have large numbers of really awesome techies on your side.  Yes, of course: they may not achieve results. But without them, or another group of similar proven aptitude, you're basically guaranteed to get fewer results on that score.  The entire point is their potential value.  No they aren't experts in non-organic Reaper tech.  But since no one is, I'm gonna go with people who have the odds on their side when it comes to possibly becoming experts in non-organic Reaper tech.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 janvier 2011 - 03:14 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm still seriously a smartass and stuff. Plus, I've always been as much as a dick as you: I just keep it in my pants more often.

Abstinence! It's the only 100% guarantee to avoid conceiving an abortive argument!

Thats more like it. lol

You remind me a lot of Shand right now.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Ofcourse if you're going to pick one group that could become a Reaper expert it would be the Geth. Especially if you reprogramed the Heritics than the Core Geth get all the information that the Heritics had about Reapers even if it was only a little its still more than anything else. Added to that they think faster than a Quarian ever could and when enough programs are massed together they are possibly the smartest specie in the entire universe.



If they mada single platform like Legion but put 10,000 programs in it instead of 1,000 than you'd probably have a single Geth platform that's three times smarter than Mordin. I think its fair to say the Geth would be the best bet for a souly AI forcus hacking attempt with Salarians for orgainic research since they're well versed in altering organic life to their wishes (Genophage)

[Arijharn]

StarGateGod wrote...

why do we doubt the combat ability of the quarians? the are very tech specialists

Mainly because their 'best' troops couldn't take back the Alarei, and what combat scenario do you think the Quarian Marines would have the most training in?

I think the key to the Quarian involvement might not necessarily lie in front line actions like a dedicated navy or anything, but more ferrying supplies/troops or whatever.

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'm still seriously a smartass and stuff. Plus, I've always been as much as a dick as you: I just keep it in my pants more often.

Abstinence! It's the only 100% guarantee to avoid conceiving an abortive argument!

Thats more like it. lol

You remind me a lot of Shand right now.

I miss him  in that odd warped way of missing a strange odor that used to be in your room.

[Dean_the_Young]

Shand was pretty reasonable to deal with once you understood that while, yes, he was about as dry and tactful as sandblasting a soup ******, as long as you didn't retaliate with insults or slights or make assumptions of his position, you could work him to a very intelligent, even excellent dry-humor, discussion.



Not the easiest person to get along with, but once you could, it could be well worth it. He had some excellent thoughts on a number of issues.

[Sajuro]

 Except with Collector Base discussions, but that brought out the hate in all of us.
At least he acknowledged that he would have called me an idiot when I called him out on it.

[StarGateGod]

Arijharn wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

why do we doubt the combat ability of the quarians? the are very tech specialists

Mainly because their 'best' troops couldn't take back the Alarei, and what combat scenario do you think the Quarian Marines would have the most training in?

I think the key to the Quarian involvement might not necessarily lie in front line actions like a dedicated navy or anything, but more ferrying supplies/troops or whatever.

thats in close combat. the volus could never do  frontline combat one shot and theyre dead, just like the quarians. their utility will lie in rapid attack and retreat. not stand up and fight like the turians
discuss

[Arijharn]

StarGateGod wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

why do we doubt the combat ability of the quarians? the are very tech specialists

Mainly because their 'best' troops couldn't take back the Alarei, and what combat scenario do you think the Quarian Marines would have the most training in?

I think the key to the Quarian involvement might not necessarily lie in front line actions like a dedicated navy or anything, but more ferrying supplies/troops or whatever.

thats in close combat. the volus could never do  frontline combat one shot and theyre dead, just like the quarians. their utility will lie in rapid attack and retreat. not stand up and fight like the turians
discuss

That's hardly relevant really. You aren't going to 'take' any position by constantly falling back. You'd think that because its on their home turf the Quarian's would perhaps be more motivated to see it taken back and you would at least give them the benefit of a doubt that they know how to position themselves well to maximize fire support etc.

The Quarian's are engaging a turf war over one of their own ships against basically their nemesis, you'd think they'd fight like lions.

While the Turian's are renowned for their high level of discipline, any military force that doesn't any discipline isn't really going to be a military, so saying that they failed because of that is nonsense in my opinion.

[didymos1120]

Sajuro wrote...

 Except with Collector Base discussions, but that brought out the hate in all of us.
At least he acknowledged that he would have called me an idiot when I called him out on it.

BTW, did Shand get himself banned?  I've been wondering where he went since I started posting again.

[Arijharn]

Sajuro wrote...

 Except with Collector Base discussions, but that brought out the hate in all of us.

That's true, I would say that Shand is a fierce pragmatist if anything.

[atheelogos]

My name is Legion wrote...

Maybe strap nukes to them and send them on suicide rams....

Or not.

nukes can't penetrate a Reapers shields

[lovgreno]

A direct confrontation to reapers, or almost anyone, would probably not end well for the Flotilla. Then again the quarians are adaptive and clever so I'm sure they could contribute to the reaper war in some way.

[atheelogos]

lovgreno wrote...

A direct confrontation to reapers, or almost anyone, would probably not end well for the Flotilla. Then again the quarians are adaptive and clever so I'm sure they could contribute to the reaper war in some way.

They could help with the ground effort, and they could work in shipyards, but ship to ship combat for them seems unlikely.

[Sajuro]

Call me an idiot if you wish, but what if you use the FTL drives to ram them into the reapers? The Mass Effect Fields wouldn't be able to stop that.

[Arijharn]

Sajuro wrote...

Call me an idiot if you wish, but what if you use the FTL drives to ram them into the reapers? The Mass Effect Fields wouldn't be able to stop that.

Apparently they can.

Remember the CDN about Taetrus? More specifically the one where they say that shielding exists that can protect the cities even against objects travelling at relativistic speeds. Also remember that a Dreadnought's main weapon fires a round at 1.3% of light speed (4652m/s or something like that) and if that's the case, then another Dreadnought would have to be designed to survive that impact (at least, that's how I would do it; because you can't guarantee that you'll be the one with the first shot -- the more likely you are to survive the impact, the more likely you can return fire).

Since the shell has mass, I would imagine that even travelling at the FTL speeds, the target would  require greater power to it's shielding to thwart the impact force, but that makes it possible (even if expensive) and not an unsurmountable problem.

[Sajuro]

Arijharn wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Call me an idiot if you wish, but what if you use the FTL drives to ram them into the reapers? The Mass Effect Fields wouldn't be able to stop that.

Apparently they can.

Remember the CDN about Taetrus? More specifically the one where they say that shielding exists that can protect the cities even against objects travelling at relativistic speeds. Also remember that a Dreadnought's main weapon fires a round at 1.3% of light speed (4652m/s or something like that) and if that's the case, then another Dreadnought would have to be designed to survive that impact (at least, that's how I would do it; because you can't guarantee that you'll be the one with the first shot -- the more likely you are to survive the impact, the more likely you can return fire).

Since the shell has mass, I would imagine that even travelling at the FTL speeds, the target would  require greater power to it's shielding to thwart the impact force, but that makes it possible (even if expensive) and not an unsurmountable problem.

If only I read CDN.
But a full fledged ship at FTL?

[StarGateGod]

Arijharn wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

why do we doubt the combat ability of the quarians? the are very tech specialists

Mainly because their 'best' troops couldn't take back the Alarei, and what combat scenario do you think the Quarian Marines would have the most training in?

I think the key to the Quarian involvement might not necessarily lie in front line actions like a dedicated navy or anything, but more ferrying supplies/troops or whatever.

thats in close combat. the volus could never do  frontline combat one shot and theyre dead, just like the quarians. their utility will lie in rapid attack and retreat. not stand up and fight like the turians
discuss

That's hardly relevant really. You aren't going to 'take' any position by constantly falling back. You'd think that because its on their home turf the Quarian's would perhaps be more motivated to see it taken back and you would at least give them the benefit of a doubt that they know how to position themselves well to maximize fire support etc.

The Quarian's are engaging a turf war over one of their own ships against basically their nemesis, you'd think they'd fight like lions.

While the Turian's are renowned for their high level of discipline, any military force that doesn't any discipline isn't really going to be a military, so saying that they failed because of that is nonsense in my opinion.

when i say rapid attack and retreat i mean retreat out of range of the main guns

[Nashiktal]

StarGateGod wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

why do we doubt the combat ability of the quarians? the are very tech specialists

Mainly because their 'best' troops couldn't take back the Alarei, and what combat scenario do you think the Quarian Marines would have the most training in?

I think the key to the Quarian involvement might not necessarily lie in front line actions like a dedicated navy or anything, but more ferrying supplies/troops or whatever.

thats in close combat. the volus could never do  frontline combat one shot and theyre dead, just like the quarians. their utility will lie in rapid attack and retreat. not stand up and fight like the turians
discuss

The only problem is that Bioware has made a considerable effort to tell you how bad Quarians are at combat on an infantry level. What is the first thing you see the first time you meet the Quarians? Slaughter. What do you see on Tali's recruitment mission? Slaughter. What do you see on the Alerai? Slaughter. What does Kal think about frontline warfare? Slaughter.

Now even if they did use the attack and retreat method, how do you propose they do that? Do they have a large store of rapid transport vehicles just laying around? Shuttles can only get you so far.

[Lebrine]

Imagine a migrant fleet all with freshly installed thannix cannons thanks to Tali and Shep, that would be amazing!

[Arijharn]

Sajuro wrote...
If only I read CDN.
But a full fledged ship at FTL?

Think of it this way: The 'scientific' principle between stopping a shard of metal shaved of a metal block inside a gun and fired at relativistic speeds and stopped by your suits kinetic barrier is no different than stopping a large object travelling at relativistic speeds by a city's kinetic shield.

The principle is the same, its just that power required increases quite harshly. With that excess power comes excess cost, which is why city shields are apparently very expensive. It's the difference why the capital city on Palaven would have one whereas Taetrus didn't.

When you break it down (har, there's a pun in there somewhere) the spaceship travelling at relativistic speeds is the same as any other object travelling at relativistic speeds.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nashiktal wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

StarGateGod wrote...

why do we doubt the combat ability of the quarians? the are very tech specialists

Mainly because their 'best' troops couldn't take back the Alarei, and what combat scenario do you think the Quarian Marines would have the most training in?

I think the key to the Quarian involvement might not necessarily lie in front line actions like a dedicated navy or anything, but more ferrying supplies/troops or whatever.

thats in close combat. the volus could never do  frontline combat one shot and theyre dead, just like the quarians. their utility will lie in rapid attack and retreat. not stand up and fight like the turians
discuss

The only problem is that Bioware has made a considerable effort to tell you how bad Quarians are at combat on an infantry level. What is the first thing you see the first time you meet the Quarians? Slaughter. What do you see on Tali's recruitment mission? Slaughter. What do you see on the Alerai? Slaughter. What does Kal think about frontline warfare? Slaughter.

Now even if they did use the attack and retreat method, how do you propose they do that? Do they have a large store of rapid transport vehicles just laying around? Shuttles can only get you so far.

You're Commander Shepard: all you ever see is slaughter and the few individual survivors. It doesn't matter the faction, and it doesn't matter the situation. You never show up and see someone winning except the bad guys.

Alliance? Being overrun by Geth/Rachni/Batarians/enemy of the mission. Salarian STG? Incapable of attacking/surviving against Saren's base without your interference. Blue Suns? Overrun by Vorcha in plague district. Legion? Overwhelmed by Husks.

The Quarian strike teams 'suck' in the same sense every non-enemy faction sucks when it comes time for Shepard to save the day.


The Quarians don't have the resources/manpower for a full ground campaign, that's true, but that's a resource issue. Their strike teams don't especially suck, the universe just bends to make Commander Shepard succede where everyone else says.

[Vaenier]

Nashiktal wrote...

Vaenier wrote...
You are welcome.

You should not set your standards in writing so low. Do you also like the idea of putting C4 inside the ships control consoles so they can explode and kill people when the shields get shot?

I'm not for it but it does seem to happen now doesnt it? My standards have nothing to do with this. It is simple cause and effect.

Saren gets "Direct controlled" glows and sparks with that fancy red graphics. Kill saren, somehow stunning or whatever it does to him, suddenly sovvy glows with the same fancy red sparks and he is somehow killed by a frigate and two fighter while a whole FLEET of CRUISERS pounded at it for no effect the entire battle.

Those cruisers certainly didnt get any better at killing it. The only other factor in the battle was Sovvy controlling Saren.

Ships in Mass Effect have these cool things called shields. As they absorb damage, they use up energy, but prevent damage to the ship itself. Really strong shields require a lot of fire power to take down, either in a bunch of little shots, or one huge shot. A ship would be completely protected till its shields go fully down and then they would be extremely vulnerable to death. Have a nice day.